JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Don't forget Pakistan. Nut cases from that country seem to be behind the
increased levels of violence in Afghanistan.


Yep.

For that matter, we shouldn't forget Indonesia. One thing
that the Bush Administration has gotten right, Muslim
fanaticism is a world wide threat. But their approach (More
& bigger guns, but only when our dearest cronies make a
profit on it) has made the whole issue much worse.


We'll also need to deal with the fact that huge numbers of middle-class
skilled professionals are leaving Iraq. That's a bad thing in any country -
just look at the number of hospitals here that offer hefty signing bonuses
and other perks to nurses. But, why would anyone want to spend 8 or more
years becoming a doctor, only to return to Iraq where just walking down the
street is like playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds in a revolver?


Agreed, but that prolem will solve itself when we take away
the Russian Roulette game *and* give them middle-class
professions that they can work at, staying in Iraq.

Right now, the only job most Iraqis can get is working for
the police. That's very limited, exposes them to the risk of
suicide bomb attack while they're waiting in line, and also
puts them in touch with the fundie militia recruiters... in
other words, it's not solving the problem.

DSK

Agreed, but that prolem will solve itself when we take away
the Russian Roulette game *and* give them middle-class
professions that they can work at, staying in Iraq.

What do you see that suggests that the culture is capable of
maintaining a social enviornment of this sort? They've had freedom to
do what they wish for two or three generations at very least, and
things do not appear to have progressed to the point where a middle
class seems significant?

My feeling is that America and the West needs to turn Saddam over to
the current government, and leave. I do not see it as a good thing
that Iraq be created to be another American welfare state; that will
enahnce their anger as they realize they can do nothing without the
help of the infidel. Let them decide what they want as a state, and
let them do it with a minimum of outside assistance.

Is there a significant boating population there? If not, why are we
even thinking about them?

wrote in message
ups.com...

Agreed, but that prolem will solve itself when we take away
the Russian Roulette game *and* give them middle-class
professions that they can work at, staying in Iraq.

What do you see that suggests that the culture is capable of
maintaining a social enviornment of this sort? They've had freedom to
do what they wish for two or three generations at very least, and
things do not appear to have progressed to the point where a middle
class seems significant?


Obviously, life under Saddam was far from ideal, but Iraq actually DID have
a healthy middle class, quite a few of whom were educated here and in
Europe. Iran's the same way.

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..

We'll also need to deal with the fact that huge numbers of middle-class
skilled professionals are leaving Iraq. That's a bad thing in any
country - just look at the number of hospitals here that offer hefty
signing bonuses and other perks to nurses. But, why would anyone want to
spend 8 or more years becoming a doctor, only to return to Iraq where
just walking down the street is like playing Russian roulette with 5
rounds in a revolver?

Agreed, but that prolem will solve itself when we take away the Russian
Roulette game *and* give them middle-class professions that they can work
at, staying in Iraq.

Right now, the only job most Iraqis can get is working for the police.
That's very limited, exposes them to the risk of suicide bomb attack while
they're waiting in line, and also puts them in touch with the fundie
militia recruiters... in other words, it's not solving the problem.

DSK


Speaking of educated professionals.....

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Gunmen dressed as police commandos kidnapped up to 150
staff and visitors in a lightning raid on a Baghdad research institute
Tuesday, the largest mass abduction since the start of the U.S. occupation.
Three of those taken were later released.

Iraq's higher education minister immediately ordered all universities closed
until security improvements are made, saying he was "not ready to see more
professors get killed.

"I have only one choice which is to suspend classes at universities. We have
no other choice," Abed Theyab told parliament. Theyab said he had repeatedly
petitioned for more university security from the ministries of Defense and
Interior, who command the police, but had received none.

Alaa Makki, head of the parliament's education committee, interrupted the
body's session to say that between 100 and 150 people, both Shiites and
Sunnis, had been abducted in the 9:30 a.m. raid.

He urged the prime minister and the defense and interior ministers to
respond rapidly, calling the abductions a "national catastrophe."

The mass kidnapping is the largest since about 50 people taken from the
offices of a private security company in March. Their fate remains unknown.

"It was quick operation. It took about 10 to 15 minutes," Theyab said. "It
was a four-story building and the gunmen went to the four stories." He said
the gunmen had at least 20 vehicles, but possibly many more.

Makki said the gunmen had a list of names of those to be taken and claimed
to be on a mission from the government's anti-corruption body to check on
security ahead of a planned visit by the U.S. ambassador. Those kidnapped
included the institute's deputy general directors, employees, and visitors,
he said.

Police and witnesses said the gunmen, who numbered about 80, had closed off
streets surrounding the Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific
Research, Scholarships and Cultural Relations Directorate in the downtown
Karradah district. The institute is responsible for granting scholarships to
Iraqi professors and students wishing to study abroad.

The rest:

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D8LCSHE80.html