Up to 150 People Kidnapped in Baghdad
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, Associated Press Writer

Tuesday, November 14, 2006 03 40 AM


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(11-14) 03:40 PST BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) --


Gunmen wearing Iraqi police commando uniforms kidnapped up to 150 staff
and visitors in a lightning raid on a government research institute in
downtown Baghdad on Tuesday, the largest mass abduction since the start
of the U.S. occupation.


Iraq's higher education minister instantly ordered all universities
closed until security improvements are made, saying he was "not ready
to see more professors get killed.


"I have only one choice which is to suspend classes at universities. We
have no other choice," Abed Theyab said in an address to parliament.


Alaa Makki, head of the parliament's education committee, interrupted
the body's session to say that between 100 and 150 people, both Shiites
and Sunnis, had been abducted in the 9:30 a.m. raid.


He urged the prime minister and ministers of interior and defense to
respond rapidly to what he called a "national catastrophe."


The kidnapping is the largest of any group since about 50 people taken
from the offices of a private security company in March. Their fate
remains unknown.


"It was quick operation. It took about 10 to 15 minutes," Theyab said.
"It was a four-story building and the gunmen went to the four stories."


Makki said the gunmen had a list of names of those to be taken and
claimed to be on a mission from the government's anti-corruption body.
Those kidnapped included the institute's deputy general directors,
employees, and visitors, he said.


Police and witnesses said about 80 gunmen were involved in the raid the
Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Research, Scholarships and
Cultural Relations Directorate in the downtown Karradah district. The
institute is responsible for granting scholarships to Iraqi professors
and students wishing to study abroad.


Police spokesman Maj. Mahir Hamad said the entire operation took about
20 minutes and began with gunmen closing off surrounding streets. Four
guards at the institute put up no resistance and were unharmed, he
said.


Witnesses including a female professor visiting at the time of the
kidnappings said the gunmen forced men and women into separate rooms,
handcuffed the men, and loaded them aboard about pickup trucks. She
said the gunmen, some of them masked, wore blue camouflage uniforms of
the type worn by police commandos.


Shiite militias and other illegal groups are known to wear stolen or
fake police and army uniforms.


The abductions were the most brazen attack yet on Iraqi academics, who
have often been targeted by insurgents. Recent weeks have seen a
university dean and prominent Sunni geologist murdered, bringing the
death toll among educators to at least 155 since the war began.


Thousands of professors and researchers have fled to neighboring
countries to escape the lawlessness and sectarian strife, robbing the
country of its brain trust.


The academics apparently were singled out for their relatively high
public stature, vulnerability and known views on controversial issues
in a climate of deepening Islamic fundamentalism.


Ali al-Adib, a Shiite lawmaker, said there was little question
Tuesday's incident was a mass kidnapping and demanded that U.S. troops
be held responsible for the security lapse.


"The detention of 150 people from a government institution without
informing the higher education minister ... means this is an abduction
operation," al-Adib said.


"There is a political goal behind this grave action," he said.


A spokesman for U.S. forces in Iraq said American troops were ready to
help in the hunt for the kidnappers.


"If the reports are true, than this is a terrible crime and we will
support all efforts by the Iraqi government to bring these criminals to
justice," Lt. Col. Christopher Garver said.


The abductions came just hours after a U.S. assault on the northwest
Baghdad Shiite district of Shula that drew strong condemnation from
al-Adib and other Shiite members of parliament. Shula is a stronghold
of radical anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, sponsor of one
of Iraq's most powerful and feared militias, the Mahdi Army.


It also came a day after Gen. John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central
Command, confronted Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki over how Iraqi
forces would halt the raging violence.


In other violence Tuesday, police and medical workers said at least 20
Iraqis were killed in clashes in the western city of Ramadi, where U.S.
ground troops and warplanes have conducted a series of operations over
recent days targeting Sunni insurgents. U.S. forces had no immediate
comment.

I predict that we'll be out of there sooner than later. Bush-1 is now
involved (finally). Even if he's doing it just to save the family name from
ridicule, he's lacing various advisory groups (and the DOD) with a few sane
people from his time on the stage. He spends more public time with Clinton
than with his own son (not surprising) - but there's probably a motive,
which any father would understand: His people are going to come up with a
plan that's at least semi-acceptable to all parties. Clinton, as a favor to
another ex-pres, will discreetly arrange for Democrats to make the final
plan appear to be Nookular Boy's idea.

Apologies for an off-topic post, but this is an issue that
we've all been thinking about.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
I predict that we'll be out of there sooner than later.

Probably so. Unfortunate, IMHO, because we broke it and
really should try to glue thei pieces back together.


Bush-1 is now
involved (finally). Even if he's doing it just to save the family name from
ridicule, he's lacing various advisory groups (and the DOD) with a few sane
people from his time on the stage.

They're unlikely to come up with a long-term workable
solution (if indeed, one exists). The only way to really
solve this problem is with a time machine.

HOWEVER: my suggestion is that we make a large increase in
committed forces in Iraq, not reduce them. We should have
put half a million men there to start with, put 3/4 million
there now. Include large numbers of civil-works volunteers
like the Peace Corps. It's partly an issue of manpower,
partly an issue of putting so many Americans there, doing so
many undeniably good things, that the bad guys will lose all
traction.

1- put a big & powerful hi-tech armed force, with a lot of
intel resources, along the border of Iran & Syria. Seal it
off. If they complain, tough ****. As far as Syria is
concerned, we should have bombed a couple of their highways
& bridges already anyway.

2- Put a large civil-works effort underway, get the people
water & electricty, restore the living standard to what it
was before the invasion. Health care should be included in
this consideration. We should also put a large publicity
effort behind this.

3- Bring all the varying parties to the table, and figure
out a workable security force command so that you won't have
the state police devolving into Shia & Sunni militias. The
Soviet Union solved this problem, largely by making sure
that everybody served far from their home, and with as mixed
a bag of peoples as they could get speaking the same language.

4- get the international community involved. Turn the
military situation over to U.N. peacekeepers as soon as
practical, but also make sure there's enough U.S. muscle in
place that trouble can be quashed easily & quickly... and
make sure the bad guys know that.

5- figure out how to take awy the incentive for suicide
attacks. I don't really have any good ideas on this one, but
at least we can stop copying the Nazis and the Israelis.


.... spends more public time with Clinton
than with his own son (not surprising) - but there's probably a motive,
which any father would understand: His people are going to come up with a
plan that's at least semi-acceptable to all parties. Clinton, as a favor to
another ex-pres, will discreetly arrange for Democrats to make the final
plan appear to be Nookular Boy's idea.


That's politicking, which Clinton is a master of and Bush-2
has no clue about.

The thing is, from the perspective of President Bush and
Vice-President Cheney (and their cronies) the Iraq war has
been a big success. They have all made gazillions of dollars
and are probably wondering why the rest of the country is upset.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Apologies for an off-topic post, but this is an issue that we've all been
thinking about.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
I predict that we'll be out of there sooner than later.

Probably so. Unfortunate, IMHO, because we broke it and really should try
to glue thei pieces back together.


Bush-1 is now involved (finally). Even if he's doing it just to save the
family name from ridicule, he's lacing various advisory groups (and the
DOD) with a few sane people from his time on the stage.

They're unlikely to come up with a long-term workable solution (if indeed,
one exists). The only way to really solve this problem is with a time
machine.

HOWEVER: my suggestion is that we make a large increase in committed
forces in Iraq, not reduce them. We should have put half a million men
there to start with, put 3/4 million there now. Include large numbers of
civil-works volunteers like the Peace Corps. It's partly an issue of
manpower, partly an issue of putting so many Americans there, doing so
many undeniably good things, that the bad guys will lose all traction.

1- put a big & powerful hi-tech armed force, with a lot of intel
resources, along the border of Iran & Syria. Seal it off. If they
complain, tough ****. As far as Syria is concerned, we should have bombed
a couple of their highways & bridges already anyway.


Don't forget Pakistan. Nut cases from that country seem to be behind the
increased levels of violence in Afghanistan.

We'll also need to deal with the fact that huge numbers of middle-class
skilled professionals are leaving Iraq. That's a bad thing in any country -
just look at the number of hospitals here that offer hefty signing bonuses
and other perks to nurses. But, why would anyone want to spend 8 or more
years becoming a doctor, only to return to Iraq where just walking down the
street is like playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds in a revolver?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Don't forget Pakistan. Nut cases from that country seem to be behind the
increased levels of violence in Afghanistan.


Yep.

For that matter, we shouldn't forget Indonesia. One thing
that the Bush Administration has gotten right, Muslim
fanaticism is a world wide threat. But their approach (More
& bigger guns, but only when our dearest cronies make a
profit on it) has made the whole issue much worse.


We'll also need to deal with the fact that huge numbers of middle-class
skilled professionals are leaving Iraq. That's a bad thing in any country -
just look at the number of hospitals here that offer hefty signing bonuses
and other perks to nurses. But, why would anyone want to spend 8 or more
years becoming a doctor, only to return to Iraq where just walking down the
street is like playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds in a revolver?


Agreed, but that prolem will solve itself when we take away
the Russian Roulette game *and* give them middle-class
professions that they can work at, staying in Iraq.

Right now, the only job most Iraqis can get is working for
the police. That's very limited, exposes them to the risk of
suicide bomb attack while they're waiting in line, and also
puts them in touch with the fundie militia recruiters... in
other words, it's not solving the problem.

DSK

Wrong group, Basskipper.

Agreed, but that prolem will solve itself when we take away
the Russian Roulette game *and* give them middle-class
professions that they can work at, staying in Iraq.

What do you see that suggests that the culture is capable of
maintaining a social enviornment of this sort? They've had freedom to
do what they wish for two or three generations at very least, and
things do not appear to have progressed to the point where a middle
class seems significant?

My feeling is that America and the West needs to turn Saddam over to
the current government, and leave. I do not see it as a good thing
that Iraq be created to be another American welfare state; that will
enahnce their anger as they realize they can do nothing without the
help of the infidel. Let them decide what they want as a state, and
let them do it with a minimum of outside assistance.

Is there a significant boating population there? If not, why are we
even thinking about them?

wrote in message
ups.com...

Agreed, but that prolem will solve itself when we take away
the Russian Roulette game *and* give them middle-class
professions that they can work at, staying in Iraq.

What do you see that suggests that the culture is capable of
maintaining a social enviornment of this sort? They've had freedom to
do what they wish for two or three generations at very least, and
things do not appear to have progressed to the point where a middle
class seems significant?


Obviously, life under Saddam was far from ideal, but Iraq actually DID have
a healthy middle class, quite a few of whom were educated here and in
Europe. Iran's the same way.

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..

We'll also need to deal with the fact that huge numbers of middle-class
skilled professionals are leaving Iraq. That's a bad thing in any
country - just look at the number of hospitals here that offer hefty
signing bonuses and other perks to nurses. But, why would anyone want to
spend 8 or more years becoming a doctor, only to return to Iraq where
just walking down the street is like playing Russian roulette with 5
rounds in a revolver?

Agreed, but that prolem will solve itself when we take away the Russian
Roulette game *and* give them middle-class professions that they can work
at, staying in Iraq.

Right now, the only job most Iraqis can get is working for the police.
That's very limited, exposes them to the risk of suicide bomb attack while
they're waiting in line, and also puts them in touch with the fundie
militia recruiters... in other words, it's not solving the problem.

DSK


Speaking of educated professionals.....

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Gunmen dressed as police commandos kidnapped up to 150
staff and visitors in a lightning raid on a Baghdad research institute
Tuesday, the largest mass abduction since the start of the U.S. occupation.
Three of those taken were later released.

Iraq's higher education minister immediately ordered all universities closed
until security improvements are made, saying he was "not ready to see more
professors get killed.

"I have only one choice which is to suspend classes at universities. We have
no other choice," Abed Theyab told parliament. Theyab said he had repeatedly
petitioned for more university security from the ministries of Defense and
Interior, who command the police, but had received none.

Alaa Makki, head of the parliament's education committee, interrupted the
body's session to say that between 100 and 150 people, both Shiites and
Sunnis, had been abducted in the 9:30 a.m. raid.

He urged the prime minister and the defense and interior ministers to
respond rapidly, calling the abductions a "national catastrophe."

The mass kidnapping is the largest since about 50 people taken from the
offices of a private security company in March. Their fate remains unknown.

"It was quick operation. It took about 10 to 15 minutes," Theyab said. "It
was a four-story building and the gunmen went to the four stories." He said
the gunmen had at least 20 vehicles, but possibly many more.

Makki said the gunmen had a list of names of those to be taken and claimed
to be on a mission from the government's anti-corruption body to check on
security ahead of a planned visit by the U.S. ambassador. Those kidnapped
included the institute's deputy general directors, employees, and visitors,
he said.

Police and witnesses said the gunmen, who numbered about 80, had closed off
streets surrounding the Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific
Research, Scholarships and Cultural Relations Directorate in the downtown
Karradah district. The institute is responsible for granting scholarships to
Iraqi professors and students wishing to study abroad.

The rest:

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D8LCSHE80.html

Chuck Gould wrote:
Wrong group, Basskipper.

Oh, yeah, I forgot Chuck. Only you and your chosen few are allowed to
post off topic, huh?