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Account of pair's fate at sea chills courtroom

"-L." wrote in message
ups.com...

Bo Raxo wrote:
snip

Nope, you say we might as well throw that life away as garbage. Must
be great to be able to see in to the future and know with such
certainty whether a person will ever be able to change and ever be able
to do any good for his fellow man. I don't know where one finds such
certainty about human nature and the future, but somehow I think it
comes from a place to which I wouldn't want to go.

Bo Raxo

I am normally anti-death penalty, but I have one name for you. Timothy
Buss. Google it.

-L.

And then google Kenneth McDuff.

Kenneth Mcduff was arrested May 4th, 1992. He was arrested when he should
have been dead.

Kenneth McDuff was convicted of the 1966 shooting deaths of two boys and the
vicious rape-strangulation of their 16-year-old female friend. A Fort Worth
jury ruled that McDuff should die in the electric chair, a sentence changed
to life in prison in 1972 after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the death
penalty. In 1989, with Texas officials under fire from the federal
judiciary, McDuff was quietly turned loose on an unsuspecting society.

Within days, a naked body of a woman turned up. Prostitute Sarafia Parker,
31, had been beaten, strangled and dumped in a field near Temple.

In early 1991, McDuff enrolled at Texas State Technical College in Waco.
Soon, Central Texas prostitutes began disappearing. One, Valencia Joshua,
22, was last seen alive Feb. 24, 1991. Her naked, decomposed body later was
discovered in a shallow grave in woods behind the college. Another of the
missing women, Regenia Moore, was last seen kicking and screaming in the cab
of McDuff's pickup truck. During the Christmas holidays of 1991, Colleen
Reed disappeared from an Austin car wash. Witnesses reported hearing a woman
scream that night and seeing two men speeding away in a yellow or tan
Thunderbird. Little more than two months later, on March 1, 1992, Melissa
Northrup, pregnant with a third child, vanished from the Waco convenience
store where she worked. McDuff's beige Thunderbird, broken down, was
discovered a block from the store.

Fifty-seven days later, a fisherman found the young woman's nearly nude body
floating in a gravel pit in Dallas County, 90 miles north of Waco. By then,
McDuff was the target of a nationwide manhunt. Just days after Mrs.
Northrup's funeral, McDuff was recognized on television's "America's Most
Wanted'' and arrested May 4 in Kansas City.

In 1993, a Houston jury ordered him executed for the kidnap-slaying of
22-year-old Melissa Northrup, a Waco mother of two. In 1994, a Seguin jury
assessed him the death penalty for the abduction-rape-murder of 28-year-old
Colleen Reed, an Austin accountant. Pamplin's son Larry, the current sheriff
of Falls County, appeared at McDuff's Houston trial for the 1992 abduction
and murder of Melissa Northrup.

"Kenneth McDuff is absolutely the most vicious and savage individual I
know,'' he told reporters. "He has absolutely no conscience, and I think he
enjoys killing.''
If McDuff had been executed as scheduled, he said, "no telling how many
lives would have been saved.''
At least nine, probably more, Texas authorities suspect.

His riegn of terror finally ended on November 17, 1998 when Kenneth McDuff
was put to death by the state of Texas by Lethal Injection. May his victims
rest in peace.

Now here we are, 14 years after his arrest and people want to abolish the
death penalty again. They want to set in motion the events that led to the
deaths of these women. When are people going to learn.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9389559

td

Account of pair's fate at sea chills courtroom

Bo Raxo wrote:
tiny dancer wrote:

Think Kenneth MacDuff.

He got a plea bargain, that's how he got out. You want to outlaw plea
bargains? Has nothing to do with death penalty versus life without
parole.

Oh wait, I was thinking of someone else. This is an hilarious example:
if he'd been originally sentenced to LWOP, nobody else would have
died.

But he was given the death penalty, under a flawed process, and the
conviction was overturned by the Supreme Court. And the state whose
law he was convicted under was poorly written so it didn't roll over to
a life sentence, as with for example Manson. *That* is why he got out -
poorly written laws, and *because* people like you wanted the death
penalty.

No death penalty, and he would not have gotten out. Plus, that
loophole in state laws has been plugged, overturn the death penalty and
they automatically become LWOP. So it is no excuse to keep killing
people.

You want to claim the system is flawed, and that is a reason to execute
people? Do you see that makes no sense?

Bo Raxo

Account of pair's fate at sea chills courtroom

"Bo Raxo" wrote in message
oups.com...

tiny dancer wrote:

Tell that to all the victims of REPEAT OFFENDERS. Tell that to the kid
that
Joseph Duncan raped and tried to strangle when he was 17.

He was not sentenced to LWOP. I guess you're arguing a rapist should be
sentenced to death, because then there will be no more victims. But
LWOP makes that happen just as surely as a death penalty.

Oh, you can argue that we will never, ever execute the wrong person,
only the clearly guilty.. But I can't argue we will never, ever
release a LWOP prisoner.

Uh huh.

Tell that to the
women Richard Allen Davis kidnapped and raped prior to Polly Klass.

Also wasn't given LWOP. If he had been, there would have been no more
victims. Didn't require the death penalty So the example proves
nothing.

Tell
that to the victim prior to Carlie Brucia,

That guy also wasn't given LWOP. If he had been, there would have been
no more victims. Didn't require the death penalty So the example
proves nothing.

tell it to the victims that came
before Jessica Lunsford, etc.

That guy also wasn't given LWOP. If he had been, there would have been
no more victims. Didn't require the death penalty So the example
proves nothing.

You say 'they will never get out again'. I
say, look at history. Life may mean *life* now. Wait 20 or 30 years,
until
the prisons are more over-crowded and parole boards need to do a little
thinning out again.

Oh sure, I can just see some governor approving that...get real!!! You
think the system is good enough to never execute an innocent person,
but lousy enough to let the worst killers to free if they aren't
executed. C'mon, that's contradictory.

Think Kenneth MacDuff.

He got a plea bargain, that's how he got out. You want to outlaw plea
bargains? Has nothing to do with death penalty versus life without
parole.

He did NOT get a plea bargain. He got PAROLED.

Kenneth Mcduff was arrested May 4th, 1992. He was arrested when he should
have been dead.

Kenneth McDuff was convicted of the 1966 shooting deaths of two boys and the
vicious rape-strangulation of their 16-year-old female friend. A Fort Worth
jury ruled that McDuff should die in the electric chair, a sentence changed
to life in prison in 1972 after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the death
penalty. In 1989, with Texas officials under fire from the federal
judiciary, McDuff was quietly turned loose on an unsuspecting society.

Within days, a naked body of a woman turned up. Prostitute Sarafia Parker,
31, had been beaten, strangled and dumped in a field near Temple.

In early 1991, McDuff enrolled at Texas State Technical College in Waco.
Soon, Central Texas prostitutes began disappearing. One, Valencia Joshua,
22, was last seen alive Feb. 24, 1991. Her naked, decomposed body later was
discovered in a shallow grave in woods behind the college. Another of the
missing women, Regenia Moore, was last seen kicking and screaming in the cab
of McDuff's pickup truck. During the Christmas holidays of 1991, Colleen
Reed disappeared from an Austin car wash. Witnesses reported hearing a woman
scream that night and seeing two men speeding away in a yellow or tan
Thunderbird. Little more than two months later, on March 1, 1992, Melissa
Northrup, pregnant with a third child, vanished from the Waco convenience
store where she worked. McDuff's beige Thunderbird, broken down, was
discovered a block from the store.

Fifty-seven days later, a fisherman found the young woman's nearly nude body
floating in a gravel pit in Dallas County, 90 miles north of Waco. By then,
McDuff was the target of a nationwide manhunt. Just days after Mrs.
Northrup's funeral, McDuff was recognized on television's "America's Most
Wanted'' and arrested May 4 in Kansas City.

In 1993, a Houston jury ordered him executed for the kidnap-slaying of
22-year-old Melissa Northrup, a Waco mother of two. In 1994, a Seguin jury
assessed him the death penalty for the abduction-rape-murder of 28-year-old
Colleen Reed, an Austin accountant. Pamplin's son Larry, the current sheriff
of Falls County, appeared at McDuff's Houston trial for the 1992 abduction
and murder of Melissa Northrup.

"Kenneth McDuff is absolutely the most vicious and savage individual I
know,'' he told reporters. "He has absolutely no conscience, and I think he
enjoys killing.''
If McDuff had been executed as scheduled, he said, "no telling how many
lives would have been saved.''
At least nine, probably more, Texas authorities suspect.

His riegn of terror finally ended on November 17, 1998 when Kenneth McDuff
was put to death by the state of Texas by Lethal Injection. May his victims
rest in peace.

Now here we are, 14 years after his arrest and people want to abolish the
death penalty again. They want to set in motion the events that led to the
deaths of these women. When are people going to learn.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9389559

The system is good enough that we'd only kill those clearly guilty, but
lousy enough that we can't possibly consider LWOP a real alternative.

Makes no sense.

Bo Raxo

And there is absolutely NO way you can assure me that won't happen again.

td

Account of pair's fate at sea chills courtroom

"Bo Raxo" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bo Raxo wrote:
tiny dancer wrote:

Think Kenneth MacDuff.

He got a plea bargain, that's how he got out. You want to outlaw plea
bargains? Has nothing to do with death penalty versus life without
parole.

Oh wait, I was thinking of someone else. This is an hilarious example:
if he'd been originally sentenced to LWOP, nobody else would have
died.

But he was given the death penalty, under a flawed process, and the
conviction was overturned by the Supreme Court. And the state whose
law he was convicted under was poorly written so it didn't roll over to
a life sentence, as with for example Manson. *That* is why he got out -
poorly written laws, and *because* people like you wanted the death
penalty.

No death penalty, and he would not have gotten out. Plus, that
loophole in state laws has been plugged, overturn the death penalty and
they automatically become LWOP. So it is no excuse to keep killing
people.

You want to claim the system is flawed, and that is a reason to execute
people? Do you see that makes no sense?

Bo Raxo

Nope, wait until you have a kid. And somebody hurts your kid. I'm thinking
you might change your story. Especially if you find out your kid was just
one in a long line.

I've had it with degenerates who treat innocent human beings as pawns in
their sick games. Yes, there is a difference in human life IMO. There is
no way in hell I'd lay down my life for Joseph Duncan or this Deleon dude.

Account of pair's fate at sea chills courtroom

-L. wrote:
Bo Raxo wrote:
snip

Nope, you say we might as well throw that life away as garbage. Must
be great to be able to see in to the future and know with such
certainty whether a person will ever be able to change and ever be able
to do any good for his fellow man. I don't know where one finds such
certainty about human nature and the future, but somehow I think it
comes from a place to which I wouldn't want to go.

Bo Raxo

I am normally anti-death penalty, but I have one name for you. Timothy
Buss. Google it.

And life without parole wouldn't have worked as well? These days, a
crime like his would have gotten LWOP - sentences used to be lighter 30
years ago. And even murderers eligible for parole almost never get it
granted - not since Willie Horton.

Yes, his crime was heinous. That doesn't change the moral calculus of
whether it is right to kill people. It isn't. He tortured his second
victim, and raped him. Would you sentence him to torture? Would you
sentence him to rape? If those things aren't right, why is the killing
part right? Because it satisfies your rage?

Bo Raxo

Account of pair's fate at sea chills courtroom

"Bo Raxo" wrote in message
oups.com...

-L. wrote:
Bo Raxo wrote:
snip

Nope, you say we might as well throw that life away as garbage. Must
be great to be able to see in to the future and know with such
certainty whether a person will ever be able to change and ever be
able
to do any good for his fellow man. I don't know where one finds such
certainty about human nature and the future, but somehow I think it
comes from a place to which I wouldn't want to go.

Bo Raxo

I am normally anti-death penalty, but I have one name for you. Timothy
Buss. Google it.

And life without parole wouldn't have worked as well? These days, a
crime like his would have gotten LWOP - sentences used to be lighter 30
years ago. And even murderers eligible for parole almost never get it
granted - not since Willie Horton.

Yes, his crime was heinous. That doesn't change the moral calculus of
whether it is right to kill people. It isn't. He tortured his second
victim, and raped him. Would you sentence him to torture? Would you
sentence him to rape? If those things aren't right, why is the killing
part right? Because it satisfies your rage?

No, listen carefully. BECAUSE IT FIXES THINGS SO HE CAN NEVER AGAIN HURT
ANYONE ELSE, period.

You can *project* this rage if you choose. If it makes you feel better than
those of us who don't agree with you. But that's all it is, projection.
I've told you a hundred times, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with rage or
revenge. It has to do with safety. With being ABSOLUTLEY POSITIVE that
this scum will never again hurt anyone else. He will never have the chance
or opportunity to harm another innocent being, EVER. period.

td

Bo Raxo

Account of pair's fate at sea chills courtroom

On 9 Nov 2006 22:59:32 -0800, "Bo Raxo" wrote:

wrote:
Bo Raxo wrote:

I don't think life is a right that can be forfeited. It is inalienable
and irrevocable, in my opinion.

Thats right! The Hawks lives were inalienable, and irrevocable in my
opinion too

Okay, ,we agree so far. So if it's wrong to take a human life (except
in self defense), then it's wrong whether the life belongs to a couple
of retirees or a couple of cold-blooded killers.

After all, wrong is wrong. And two wrongs don't make a right.

Bo Raxo

And does that same philosophy apply to partial birth abortions?

Account of pair's fate at sea chills courtroom

Bo Raxo wrote:
tiny dancer wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...wed-storylevel

SNIP

Thanks for the update on this one. Another one of those cases where the
death penalty should be *streamlined*. Once they are found guilty and
sentenced to die, give 'em one appeal and then stick the needle in 'em.
Just *my* opinion, of course.

Yeah, that'll bring the Hawks back to life, right? And make the
streets safer than if Skylar Deleon spends the rest of his life in
prison.

Yup. No chance for the DeLeons to get out and do it again.

You think prison really teaches repentance and good thoughts? I think
that anyone who could do such a horrific crime is a psychopath and will
never be "right", and should never be allowed back among the rest of us.

There's a case near here, where a fellow in his fifties just killed an
18 year old woman. About five months ago he was released from prison,
where he had finished doing 25 to life, for a previous murder of a five
year old boy.

Since I don't like paying taxes for fifty years to keep them alive, I
vote for the needle.

And there is no chance whatsoever that a 25 year old could grow and
change over the next two or three decades, doing good by working with
fellow inmates or convincing young people to not make the mistakes he
did. Like *some* other inmates who committed heinous crimes in their
youth have managed to do.

Nope, you say we might as well throw that life away as garbage. Must
be great to be able to see in to the future and know with such
certainty whether a person will ever be able to change and ever be able
to do any good for his fellow man. I don't know where one finds such
certainty about human nature and the future, but somehow I think it
comes from a place to which I wouldn't want to go.

You wouldn't want to be going to the bottom of the sea, tied to an
anchor, Bo.

A 25 year-old is damn well old enough to be completely accountable for
his actions. And no, I don't think he's ever going to be sorry about
what he did. In fact, I think he's right up there on the psycho-meter
with the DeLeons.

I vote with those who think dying isn't good enough for Machain and the
DeLeons.

Account of pair's fate at sea chills courtroom