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"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...

Unfortunately, you picked a reform that is needed. Social Security.
Quit giving all our children's money to the older generation now. SS was
never the national retirement system. Let us hope that Pelosi does not
try to be vinductive, The country wants improvements, not witch hunts.

It may not be a national retirement system, but it was signed into law by
FDR during the depression to encourage older folks to retire and give up
their jobs to the younger generation. Contrary to some popular belief, it
was never intended to be "temporary".

Eisboch

But even FDR said that people needed to have their own savings also. And it
was the "Widows and childrens act" originally to protect those left behind
when the working age person left life behind.

Calif Bill wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...

Unfortunately, you picked a reform that is needed. Social Security.
Quit giving all our children's money to the older generation now. SS was
never the national retirement system. Let us hope that Pelosi does not
try to be vinductive, The country wants improvements, not witch hunts.

It may not be a national retirement system, but it was signed into law by
FDR during the depression to encourage older folks to retire and give up
their jobs to the younger generation. Contrary to some popular belief, it
was never intended to be "temporary".

Eisboch

But even FDR said that people needed to have their own savings also. And it
was the "Widows and childrens act" originally to protect those left behind
when the working age person left life behind.

As a small businessman, I have to fund my own retirement system, why
cant everyone else? Stop whining that you dont have a pension, i dont
either and never expected one. If you dont put enough away for
retirement, its your own fault.. You have had the opportunity, if you
didnt do it, dont whine.

Frogwatch wrote:

As a small businessman, I have to fund my own retirement system, why
cant everyone else? Stop whining that you dont have a pension, i dont
either and never expected one. If you dont put enough away for
retirement, its your own fault.. You have had the opportunity, if you
didnt do it, dont whine.

As a small businessman you are no doubt painfully aware of the 15.2%
levied as self employment tax. That's in addition to whatever other
income tax that you're responsible for.

Why is there a special tax on labor, when money that comes your way
through dividents, rents, royalties, & inheritance isn't? The
ostensible reason is that the payroll tax is partially a pension system,
and you'll eventually be paid back by the system. Social Security
reform as proposed by the Republicans is basically a plan to not pay you
back, in effect stealing your pension, and the pensions of every working
person in America.

And the reason to loot the pension system? Well, the same reason any
pension system is looted - greed.

///Walt

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:32:59 -0500, DSK wrote:

Unfortunately, you picked a reform that is needed. Social Security. Quit
giving all our children's money to the older generation now. SS was never
the national retirement system.

No, it was really more of a welfare-for-old-folks program,
intended to keep the wolf from the door of people who had no
other resources.

wrote:
The problem is it has become one. The corporations are abandoning
pensoin systems as fast as they can and the existing ones are largely
underfunded.

True, a train wreck that (so far) seems to be below the
political radar... but nonetheless is on a lot of people's
minds.

w.... Of course SS itself is a
Ponzi that will start falling apart in about 10 years when the surplus
is gone and it goes looking for those bonds. (AKA government debt)

Actually, that's not true. SS is solvent until 2042 as of
last count, and the long term viability trend is going up
not down. That doesn't mean it should be ignored.

Most people don't look at the accounting behind SS.
Manipulation of monies in different ledgers is standard accounting
practice.
Current SS taxes taken directly from a dishwashers paycheck are being
spent as general revenues, while debt is being run up, some of it to
subsidize tax cuts for oil companies, no less. The same SS paycheck
money is entered into the SS ledgers for later repayment to SS
contributors.
Any one who pays SS taxes already has a facsimile individual SS
account and gets a statement each year as to total paycheck
contributions and likely benefits he is entitled to retrieve. The gov
backs up the accounts with bonds. These debt bonds are in essence no
different than the bonds the gov issues to the Chinese commies. If
the Chinese commies expect to collect on U.S. debt, and the oil
companies expect to collect on their U.S. tax cuts, you can damn well
rest assured that Americans who contribute cash out of their paychecks
to SS expect to likewise collect.
Anybody who doesn't expect their SS money back is a sucker, pure and
simple.

I find it facinating that we can get our panties in a bunch about some
global warming models that may predict a melt down of the ice caps in
a century or two and we ignore a financial melt down that WILL happen
in a decade or two.

The problem here is that a lot of people apparently can't do
math.

Partly. The other problem is they listen to Wall Street BS.
The propaganda effect is tremendous. Hence you hear an insurance plan
(SS) which has operated successfully for the better part of a century,
and backed by the U.S. government, called a "Ponzi Scheme."
Wall Street got directly into the pocket of workers with 401's, whose
funds are commonly raped by fund managers and their Wall Street
cronies. Some do ok and some don't, but it's a gamble. SS isn't a
gamble. It may need modification in the future as it has in the past,
but can never leave certain minimum payout, and government guarantee.
You betcha Wall Street wants that 15% combo from every employer/worker
paycheck going right into the accounts they control.
I'm all for savings/investment, but want control. Having seen a
number of 401k offerings, the investment options are limited and
unattractive compared to the open market. That non-competiveness
isn't accidental.

Somewhere in his writings, Robert Heinlein said that there
are two types of people, mathematicians and peasants.

If the gov tries to screw SS, add ****ed off retirees, massed for the
"20 Million Geezer March on Washington."

.... I am retired now but I fully expect to go back to work. I
may take up smoking so I won't outlive my money.

Funny. I'm thinking of quitting smoking so I'll have time to spend
mine. Not that there's a lot, but my needs aren't great.

Why didn't you save more, and invest intelligently, when you
had the chance? The real answer is to be self reliant and
accountable for one's actions.

Sure, but stuff happens, and that's why SS is there as a fallback.
It's enough to keep a roof over your head and food on the table.
If you want some style you need to save more.

Also to hold the CEOs who have looted pension funds
accountable... that would help too.

Another vacuuming of taxpayer money, funding retirees
through the PBGC because CEO's, execs and shareholders
raped the corporate pension funding.
BTW, polling shows the so-called Tsunami which tossed the Republicans
from the Congress was caused by a number of complaints, and I think
one I saw said 42% Iraq, 39% economy. If the Dems don't address that,
they'll be tossed out next cycle.

--Vic

wrote in message
ups.com...
Congratulations to the Dems (I aint no Dem either).

I echo your statement.

Bush will most likely give them everything they want (as evidenced by
Rumsfeld *resigning* today) in an effort to either help them succeed or hang
themselves. The ball will soon be in their court and it will be time for
them to walk the walk.

Let's all date stamp the conditions of today: A 4.4% unemployment rate (I
believe that is the lowest in over a decade), record stock market levels,
gasoline around $2/gallon and a booming economy. Most
importantly..........no terrorist attacks on US soil since 9-11.

The baseline has been set.

OK Democrats........don't let us down. ;-)

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Congratulations to the Dems (I aint no Dem either).

I echo your statement.

Bush will most likely give them everything they want (as evidenced by
Rumsfeld *resigning* today) in an effort to either help them succeed or hang
themselves. The ball will soon be in their court and it will be time for
them to walk the walk.

Let's all date stamp the conditions of today: A 4.4% unemployment rate (I
believe that is the lowest in over a decade), record stock market levels,
gasoline around $2/gallon and a booming economy. Most
importantly..........no terrorist attacks on US soil since 9-11.

The baseline has been set.

OK Democrats........don't let us down. ;-)

I have no problem with paying Social Security. Having said that, i
agree with Jeff, discussions of politics is innapropriate here but I
just wanted to congratulate all the political types who post here. So,
I'll not respond to Harry Krause unless he suggests an appropriate
venue.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Congratulations to the Dems (I aint no Dem either).

I echo your statement.

Bush will most likely give them everything they want (as evidenced by
Rumsfeld *resigning* today) in an effort to either help them succeed or
hang
themselves. The ball will soon be in their court and it will be time
for
them to walk the walk.

Let's all date stamp the conditions of today: A 4.4% unemployment rate
(I
believe that is the lowest in over a decade), record stock market levels,
gasoline around $2/gallon and a booming economy. Most
importantly..........no terrorist attacks on US soil since 9-11.

The baseline has been set.

OK Democrats........don't let us down. ;-)

I have no problem with paying Social Security. Having said that, i
agree with Jeff, discussions of politics is innapropriate here but I
just wanted to congratulate all the political types who post here. So,
I'll not respond to Harry Krause unless he suggests an appropriate
venue.

What does this have to do with my post?

BTW: You have posted your political views here not only today but several
times in the recent past. ;-)