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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
No, I really don't want to DIY repair the motor. As mentioned in
another of my post in this thread, I am fixing the rotten core of the deck and the deck core is exposed, and is not in the position to bring the boat to a mechanic and risk getting rain water inside the deck again. I just want to do enough on the motor to be able to finish winterizing it. Next spring or later when I am done with fixing the deck, I will bring the motor to a marine mechanic (my boatowner neighbor has recommended a really good mechanica in my area) and have the motor checked out and also to look into a few things. Thanks for the suggestion of a couple good reference books for maintaining motors. Also thanks for suggesting to buy those books from eBay at a low price. Jay Chan wrote: Jay, it's a shame you wern't able to use it this year. If you would still like to do-it-yourself repairs on the engine, which at this point I really wouldn't recommend. (If I were in your position , I'd take it to a reputable mechanic). BUT, i would get a repair manual for that model or series of engines. like a "Peterson", "Chiltons" or "Motors" or likewise book that you could study really well, A book that will tell you in great detail on how to even overhaul your engine if necessary. A vast amount of knowledge can be found in these books. just for if anything else, a reference point. You can find these books at about any boat dealership, or what i did was bought an almost brand new manual for my mercruiser off Ebay, for less than half price of what the stores wanted. For my book, the dealership retail price was about $49.00. I bought mine with a high bid of $18.00 plus $3.75 s&h. wrote: wrote: wrote: I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start the motor to winterize it. Jay, just out of curiosity, if you haven't used the boat in a year, then why are you deciding to winterize it at this time? According to what yoyu say, it must have sat all through the colder winter months of last year,a nd the first part of this year. why now? The reason of winterizing the motor even without using it for a year is: Last fall when I winterized the motor, I didn't run the fuel system dry. I ran the motor for 5 minutes to let treated fuel get inside the fuel system and then I shut down the motor. This means there is still fuel inside the fuel system of the motor. Although the fuel was treated with stablizer, it will only be good for one year. If I didn't winterize the motor now, by next spring the treated fuel would have sat in the fuel system for 17 months -- that would be 5 months longer than what the treated fuel is supposed to last. This is the reason why I need to winterize the motor now. Jay Chan |
Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
The brass key pin is there, and I vaguely recall that I had turned the
driveshalf to verify that the brass key pin can turn the impeller. But I don't trust my memory. I will try this one more time today when I get back home. Thanks for the tip. Jay Chan Jim wrote: There is usually a brass or fiberglass insert in the impeller. If you try to pull the impeller away from the insert, you might find that the bond between the two no longer exists. Many folks have been fooled by this failure. Jim wrote in message ups.com... wrote: I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start the motor to winterize it. After trying to start it for a couple times, I finally manage to start it. Unfortunately, I cannot see the telltail water stream coming out from the motor cooling system. All I see is some smoke coming from the hole where the water stream is supposed to come out from. Despite the fact that the motor temperature was not overheating (only run it for 30 seconds or so), I decided to turn off the motor just to be in the safe side. My question is: Should I expect to see the telltail water stream coming out from the motor as soon as I start the motor? Does the motor need to reach a certain temperature before the water stream coming out? The boatowner manual said this: "2. If engine is cold, run engine for 1 or 2 minutes ... 3. After engine has warmed up, check water temperature gauge to ensure that engine temperature is not abnormally high... Check that water is running from the tell-tail on the back of the engine..." This seems to suggest that the telltail water stream may not come out if the engine is not warm enough. Considering the fact that the overheating warning horn doesn't sound, the cooling system may not really have a problem. However, the Mercury Operation & Maintenance Manual for my 1995 Mercury 115hp outboard said this differently: "10 Turn ignition key to START ...re-prime until engine is running smoothly. 11 Check for a steady stream of water flowing out of the water pump indicator hole. IMPORTANT: If no water is coming out of the water pump indicator hole, stop engine..." This surely seems like I should expect to see telltail water stream coming out as soon as I start the engine. Now, I am really confused with this conflicting info. Obviously, I don't want to risk overheating the motor. Can someone help me with this? Thanks in advance for any info. Jay Chan I thought the impeller was damaged and could not push water through the telltail. Last weekend, I opened up the impeller and found that it is in very good shape. Now, I really don't know why I cannot see the telltail water stream when I start the motor. At this point, this problem is beyond my skill level. I will bring the motor to the dealer next spring and let them to fix it. Meanwhile, I can only finish half the winterizing process (fuel system is only partially winterized). I will just have to try my luck and hope that some of the treated fuel managed to get into the fuel system of the motor when I ran the motor for 30 seconds two weeks ago (I am betting on this because I know that I had used up all the old fuel from the fuel tank before I ran the motor). Thanks for all the people who have tried to help me. I appreciate that. I will let people know how this goes next spring when I will bring the motor to the dealer. Jay Chan |
Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
I think you missed my point. with the impeller still on the shaft, pull hard
on one of the vanes. Any separation between the impeller and the collar it is glued to is very bad. Jim wrote in message oups.com... The brass key pin is there, and I vaguely recall that I had turned the driveshalf to verify that the brass key pin can turn the impeller. But I don't trust my memory. I will try this one more time today when I get back home. Thanks for the tip. Jay Chan Jim wrote: There is usually a brass or fiberglass insert in the impeller. If you try to pull the impeller away from the insert, you might find that the bond between the two no longer exists. Many folks have been fooled by this failure. Jim wrote in message ups.com... wrote: I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start the motor to winterize it. After trying to start it for a couple times, I finally manage to start it. Unfortunately, I cannot see the telltail water stream coming out from the motor cooling system. All I see is some smoke coming from the hole where the water stream is supposed to come out from. Despite the fact that the motor temperature was not overheating (only run it for 30 seconds or so), I decided to turn off the motor just to be in the safe side. My question is: Should I expect to see the telltail water stream coming out from the motor as soon as I start the motor? Does the motor need to reach a certain temperature before the water stream coming out? The boatowner manual said this: "2. If engine is cold, run engine for 1 or 2 minutes ... 3. After engine has warmed up, check water temperature gauge to ensure that engine temperature is not abnormally high... Check that water is running from the tell-tail on the back of the engine..." This seems to suggest that the telltail water stream may not come out if the engine is not warm enough. Considering the fact that the overheating warning horn doesn't sound, the cooling system may not really have a problem. However, the Mercury Operation & Maintenance Manual for my 1995 Mercury 115hp outboard said this differently: "10 Turn ignition key to START ...re-prime until engine is running smoothly. 11 Check for a steady stream of water flowing out of the water pump indicator hole. IMPORTANT: If no water is coming out of the water pump indicator hole, stop engine..." This surely seems like I should expect to see telltail water stream coming out as soon as I start the engine. Now, I am really confused with this conflicting info. Obviously, I don't want to risk overheating the motor. Can someone help me with this? Thanks in advance for any info. Jay Chan I thought the impeller was damaged and could not push water through the telltail. Last weekend, I opened up the impeller and found that it is in very good shape. Now, I really don't know why I cannot see the telltail water stream when I start the motor. At this point, this problem is beyond my skill level. I will bring the motor to the dealer next spring and let them to fix it. Meanwhile, I can only finish half the winterizing process (fuel system is only partially winterized). I will just have to try my luck and hope that some of the treated fuel managed to get into the fuel system of the motor when I ran the motor for 30 seconds two weeks ago (I am betting on this because I know that I had used up all the old fuel from the fuel tank before I ran the motor). Thanks for all the people who have tried to help me. I appreciate that. I will let people know how this goes next spring when I will bring the motor to the dealer. Jay Chan |
Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
I re-read your original suggestion, and I realize that you were asking
me to check that the key-pin and the impeller are bonded together well. When I lifted up the water pump housing to check the impeller, the impeller stuck with the housing, and the key-pin fell off. I don't know if this meaned the key-pin didn't bond well to the impeller or not. Anyway, I will try what you have suggested when I get back home. Thanks. Jay Chan Jim wrote: I think you missed my point. with the impeller still on the shaft, pull hard on one of the vanes. Any separation between the impeller and the collar it is glued to is very bad. Jim wrote in message oups.com... The brass key pin is there, and I vaguely recall that I had turned the driveshalf to verify that the brass key pin can turn the impeller. But I don't trust my memory. I will try this one more time today when I get back home. Thanks for the tip. Jay Chan Jim wrote: There is usually a brass or fiberglass insert in the impeller. If you try to pull the impeller away from the insert, you might find that the bond between the two no longer exists. Many folks have been fooled by this failure. Jim wrote in message ups.com... wrote: I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start the motor to winterize it. After trying to start it for a couple times, I finally manage to start it. Unfortunately, I cannot see the telltail water stream coming out from the motor cooling system. All I see is some smoke coming from the hole where the water stream is supposed to come out from. Despite the fact that the motor temperature was not overheating (only run it for 30 seconds or so), I decided to turn off the motor just to be in the safe side. My question is: Should I expect to see the telltail water stream coming out from the motor as soon as I start the motor? Does the motor need to reach a certain temperature before the water stream coming out? The boatowner manual said this: "2. If engine is cold, run engine for 1 or 2 minutes ... 3. After engine has warmed up, check water temperature gauge to ensure that engine temperature is not abnormally high... Check that water is running from the tell-tail on the back of the engine..." This seems to suggest that the telltail water stream may not come out if the engine is not warm enough. Considering the fact that the overheating warning horn doesn't sound, the cooling system may not really have a problem. However, the Mercury Operation & Maintenance Manual for my 1995 Mercury 115hp outboard said this differently: "10 Turn ignition key to START ...re-prime until engine is running smoothly. 11 Check for a steady stream of water flowing out of the water pump indicator hole. IMPORTANT: If no water is coming out of the water pump indicator hole, stop engine..." This surely seems like I should expect to see telltail water stream coming out as soon as I start the engine. Now, I am really confused with this conflicting info. Obviously, I don't want to risk overheating the motor. Can someone help me with this? Thanks in advance for any info. Jay Chan I thought the impeller was damaged and could not push water through the telltail. Last weekend, I opened up the impeller and found that it is in very good shape. Now, I really don't know why I cannot see the telltail water stream when I start the motor. At this point, this problem is beyond my skill level. I will bring the motor to the dealer next spring and let them to fix it. Meanwhile, I can only finish half the winterizing process (fuel system is only partially winterized). I will just have to try my luck and hope that some of the treated fuel managed to get into the fuel system of the motor when I ran the motor for 30 seconds two weeks ago (I am betting on this because I know that I had used up all the old fuel from the fuel tank before I ran the motor). Thanks for all the people who have tried to help me. I appreciate that. I will let people know how this goes next spring when I will bring the motor to the dealer. Jay Chan |
Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
wrote:
wrote: On 17 Oct 2006 11:09:11 -0700, " wrote: I re-read your original suggestion, and I realize that you were asking me to check that the key-pin and the impeller are bonded together well. When I lifted up the water pump housing to check the impeller, the impeller stuck with the housing, and the key-pin fell off. I don't know if this meaned the key-pin didn't bond well to the impeller or not. Anyway, I will try what you have suggested when I get back home. The key is a loose part. He is talking about the hub in the impeller itself. The bond between the solid part that engages the shaft and key breaks away from the rubber part. If I understand this correctly, there are three things involved he 1. The brass or metal pin that is placed in the flat part of the drive shaft and that keys into an indentation of the hole in the middle of the impeller. 2. The white area that forms the hole in the middle of the impeller. This is the solid rigid part of the impeller. 3. The black rubber part of the impeller, and this forms the vanes. I believe what you and Jim are saying that the bond between the white solid area and the black rubber area may come loose, and this is something that I need to watch out for. And that has nothing to do with the metal pin. Thanks for the explanation. I didn't check that today because it was raining when I get back home. I will check that in this weekend when the weather forecast will be OK and I will someone to help me to hold on with the lower unit. Jay Chan Jay, For what it is worth, it looks like your DIY work might end up costing you more than paying a mechanic. |
Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
wrote: wrote: On 17 Oct 2006 11:09:11 -0700, " wrote: I re-read your original suggestion, and I realize that you were asking me to check that the key-pin and the impeller are bonded together well. When I lifted up the water pump housing to check the impeller, the impeller stuck with the housing, and the key-pin fell off. I don't know if this meaned the key-pin didn't bond well to the impeller or not. Anyway, I will try what you have suggested when I get back home. The key is a loose part. He is talking about the hub in the impeller itself. The bond between the solid part that engages the shaft and key breaks away from the rubber part. If I understand this correctly, there are three things involved he 1. The brass or metal pin that is placed in the flat part of the drive shaft and that keys into an indentation of the hole in the middle of the impeller. 2. The white area that forms the hole in the middle of the impeller. This is the solid rigid part of the impeller. 3. The black rubber part of the impeller, and this forms the vanes. I believe what you and Jim are saying that the bond between the white solid area and the black rubber area may come loose, and this is something that I need to watch out for. And that has nothing to do with the metal pin. Thanks for the explanation. I didn't check that today because it was raining when I get back home. I will check that in this weekend when the weather forecast will be OK and I will someone to help me to hold on with the lower unit. Jay Chan Jay, For what it is worth, it looks like your DIY work might end up costing you more than paying a mechanic. Yes, I actually agree with you. But as I mentioned previously, I really don't have a choice here. I want to get this done before the winter and I don't want to leave the deck of the boat unprotected in the yard of the mechanic. Jay Chan |
Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
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Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
wrote:
wrote: On 23 Oct 2006 13:41:51 -0700, " wrote: As mentioned in my previous message, I blew air using my mouth through the telltale hose, and I found that the air coming out from the water tube (that is supposed to be on top of the water pump housing). This means there should not be anything blocking the pathway between the telltale and the water pump. Unless there is a piece of junk in front of a passage that acts like a check valve. Squirting water has a better chance of washing it out. That is where the hose hookup is on a new merc. It blows back from the pee hole. I tried blowing air upward through the water tube to the motor, and I found that the air coming through the telltale in a very good air flow. This means there should not be any blockage or check-valve that prevents the water from going through from the water pump to the telltale. I think I can cross this out as the possible source of the problem. During the test, I also find that there is no air coming out from the back of the motor where I saw water coming out last weekend when I tried blowing water through the water tube. At that time, I thought there was a hold at the back of the motor that allowed water going through (and redirecting the water away from the telltale). Now, I am sure that there is not any hole at the back of the motor. I probably didn't seal the connection between the garden water hose and the water tube well enough; water simply went toward the back and showed up at the back of the motor. I think I can also cross this out as the possible cause of the problem. Based on a previous test, I know that the water can flow freely from the impeller to the water intake holes, and I also know that the impeller looks fine. Now I really don't know what was causing the problem of not seeing water coming out from the telltale when I ran the motor. I will double check the water pump and the impeller one more time to see if there is anything wrong. I will also check the service manual when it arrives to see if it says anything relevant to this problem. I seem to vaguely recall that the water pump doesn't seem to have a sealing ring on top of the water pump housing (the driveshaft is supposed to go through the sealing ring). This may be the cause of the problem. But I don't trust my memory. I will need to take a close look at the water pump in this evening to see if there is anything missing. Thanks for the suggestion though. Jay Chan I checked the water pump housing one more time last night. Surely enough, it was missing the sealing ring on top of the housing. I checked the hole for the drive shafe under the motor, and I could not find the sealing ring in there either. I have a feeling that this may be the reason why water doesn't show up in the telltale when I run the motor -- the water may be leaking all around the sealing ring and cannot build enough water pressure to reach the telltale. Hopefully, I can get the lower unit ready and run the motor again in this weekend to finish the winterization. Jay Chan |
Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
wrote:
wrote: wrote: On 23 Oct 2006 13:41:51 -0700, " wrote: As mentioned in my previous message, I blew air using my mouth through the telltale hose, and I found that the air coming out from the water tube (that is supposed to be on top of the water pump housing). This means there should not be anything blocking the pathway between the telltale and the water pump. Unless there is a piece of junk in front of a passage that acts like a check valve. Squirting water has a better chance of washing it out. That is where the hose hookup is on a new merc. It blows back from the pee hole. I tried blowing air upward through the water tube to the motor, and I found that the air coming through the telltale in a very good air flow. This means there should not be any blockage or check-valve that prevents the water from going through from the water pump to the telltale. I think I can cross this out as the possible source of the problem. During the test, I also find that there is no air coming out from the back of the motor where I saw water coming out last weekend when I tried blowing water through the water tube. At that time, I thought there was a hold at the back of the motor that allowed water going through (and redirecting the water away from the telltale). Now, I am sure that there is not any hole at the back of the motor. I probably didn't seal the connection between the garden water hose and the water tube well enough; water simply went toward the back and showed up at the back of the motor. I think I can also cross this out as the possible cause of the problem. Based on a previous test, I know that the water can flow freely from the impeller to the water intake holes, and I also know that the impeller looks fine. Now I really don't know what was causing the problem of not seeing water coming out from the telltale when I ran the motor. I will double check the water pump and the impeller one more time to see if there is anything wrong. I will also check the service manual when it arrives to see if it says anything relevant to this problem. I seem to vaguely recall that the water pump doesn't seem to have a sealing ring on top of the water pump housing (the driveshaft is supposed to go through the sealing ring). This may be the cause of the problem. But I don't trust my memory. I will need to take a close look at the water pump in this evening to see if there is anything missing. Thanks for the suggestion though. Jay Chan I checked the water pump housing one more time last night. Surely enough, it was missing the sealing ring on top of the housing. I checked the hole for the drive shafe under the motor, and I could not find the sealing ring in there either. I have a feeling that this may be the reason why water doesn't show up in the telltale when I run the motor -- the water may be leaking all around the sealing ring and cannot build enough water pressure to reach the telltale. Hopefully, I can get the lower unit ready and run the motor again in this weekend to finish the winterization. Jay Chan I finally get back the lower unit from the dealer, and I finish winterizing the motor today. Although I cannot see the telltale if I use the flushing attachment (muff), I can see the telltale if I put the lower unit inside a water tank, and that's how I can finish winterizing the motor. According to the dealer, the impeller looks OK. Sound like I don't really need to replace it. But I have already had the water pump housing opened, I may as well replace the impeller, and I did. Anyway, I don't think the impeller was the thing that was stopping the telltale. I have a feeling that the "missing sealing ring" may not have anything to do with this problem either. The reason is that the sealing ring was also missing last winter, and I could see the telltale back then when I winterized the motor (again using a water tank). Now I think of this. I have a feeling that the water tank might have losed just enough water to prevent the telltale from showing up when I was trying to winterize the motor several weeks ago. Back then, I was having some trouble starting the motor, and the motor kept stalling after starting (the cylinders had too much fogging oil inside). The vibration of the motor probably kicked out just enough water from the water tank during the starting and stalling cycles and the water might not have covered the top water inlet (there are something like 5 water inlets in each side of the lower unit), and that might have starved the water that is supposed to go to the telltale. I observed this situation when I ran the motor today, and I needed to spray water directly to the top water inlet to get around this problem... Seem like I need a bigger / deeper water tank. Jay Chan |
Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
Some of these motors have a thermostat (my 9.9 merc does) and water will not
come out til engine reaches operating temp. " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message . .. wrote in message ups.com... I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start the motor to winterize it. After trying to start it for a couple times, I finally manage to start it. Unfortunately, I cannot see the telltail water stream coming out from the motor cooling system. All I see is some smoke coming from the hole where the water stream is supposed to come out from. Despite the fact that the motor temperature was not overheating (only run it for 30 seconds or so), I decided to turn off the motor just to be in the safe side. My question is: Should I expect to see the telltail water stream coming out from the motor as soon as I start the motor? Yes. Does the motor need to reach a certain temperature before the water stream coming out? No. The impeller is shot. Any easy replacement. Here is one source for the replacement kit. http://www.outboardparts.com/mercury...repairkits.htm |
Cannot See the Telltail Water Stream from the Motor
FREDO wrote:
Some of these motors have a thermostat (my 9.9 merc does) and water will not come out til engine reaches operating temp. I was thinking along that line. But turned out this is not the case. The telltail of my motor starts coming out as soon as I put the lower unit in a water bucket. I need to make sure there is enough water depth above the top water inlet in the lower unit; otherwise, there is not enough water pressure and the telltail will not come out, or I can point a water hose directly at the top water inlet to apply water pressure. I still don't know why the ear-muff adapter doesn't work though. Jay Chan |
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