"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...
Harry Krause wrote:
NOYB wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible
to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the
boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)
Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you.

I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul
the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a
winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap.

The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would
need
a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I
couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm
approached or whatever.

If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered?
No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000.
A 2002
would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly
$5000/year.


I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay
$150/month
storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And
I'd need
something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide.




No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat
trailer?

Incredible.
Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest
only loan!

My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in
March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the
end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They
won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell
tomorrow.





By December 31, 2008, it'll go at auction for $199,999.

Only if Hillary is President.

NOYB wrote:


But the Feds have no regulatory control. They're exempt from the Sherman
Anti-Trust Act!


Now if there were uniform Federal standards instead of individual state
standards, the companies couldn't cherry-pick which states that they want to
do business in.


Hey there, whoever you are, get the heck off the computer and stop
forging NOYB's id.
NOYB is a conservative. To hear him calling for increased government
control and for the FEDGOV to ride roughshod over local control and
states' rights would be as shocking as, well,........learning that
Pluto isn't really a planet!


It doesn't make any sense for boat insurance companies to "average" the
risk of loss against all policies in the country. It makes more sense
for an individual's boat insurance premiums to reflect, as accurately
as possible, his or her personal risk of loss.

We had a similar situation here in Washington with health insurance. A
few years ago, the state legislature passed a law that said any company
writing health insurance in Washington could not refuse coverage to any
individual. The insurance companies could set the rates to reflect the
risk, of course, but they couldn't actually refuse anybody because they
presented too great a risk. Net result: A lot of insurance companies
just stopped writing health insurance in Washington, period. After all,
what sort of premiums
can be charged to cover the cost of caring for some of the AIDS
patients who require many thousands of dollars in prescriptions each
month just to delay their certain death?

It's the same reason that you have trouble buying full coverage
mechanical insurance on a boat these days. Time was that if you blew up
your 5000 hour diesel engines the insurance company would scratch out a
check for $40,000 to offset your "loss". Not typical anymore. The
premiums charged cannot even begin to offset the almost certain "loss"
that every boat will eventually experience. The only reason you can buy
boat insurance from any carrier at any price in FLA is that some boats
will survive a hurricane, and most boats don't have to ride out a
hurricane in a specific location every year.

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
NOYB wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

Could be. Of course, for 40 years down here in Naples, there hasn't
been a problem. Two bad years, and the insurance industry panics and
starts raping folks. Perhaps they should have been saving the money
they collected on those high premiums for a rainy day.

Florida is a big state. I remember reading that the area in which we
had property (Jupiter) had not had a direct hurricane hit in over 100
years at the time we bought.
Three years following our purchase, we got direct or near direct hits
three times.

Statistically, we have as high or higher probability of getting a
hurricane up here in MA this year as Jupiter does.


Right. But I bet that you don't have the same problem getting boat
insurance up there.




So...move...sell your boat...pay the premium.

Nope, nope, and already doing that.

As I said in my first post, this doesn't affect people like me who are
already insured. It affects new buyers...which will kill the boating
market. Reread the title. This isn't a personal bitch session. It
affects tens of thousands of people, and could end up affecting an entire
industry and the folks whose jobs rely upon that industry.




It may affect presently insured boaters also. Wait till renewal time. Look
at the increases in home and apartment insurance rates after Katrina.
Reading this morning that some $500k homes in New Orleans will go to $10k a
year in insurance. 400-500% increase in apartment building insurance rates.
Why should the people / government pay for peoples choice to build in flood
plains, etc. Lots of the river flood plains are now non-insurable for
federal flood insurance. Build on a beach and then cry when the ocean takes
your house, and figure that the rest of us will pay to rebuild it. Bzzzt.
wrong.

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible
to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the
boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive,
and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage (it's
valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going
to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in
Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane
zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars
shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in cities
like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane
alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a
terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower
chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what?
The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January
than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly
related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How
many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003?
2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How
many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes
only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500
people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000
residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling
hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We have
come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the world,
and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages of
hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records
kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as this
is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have passed
within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years! Of those,
40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That
also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7
years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a
category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953, 1969
(Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104
mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935
(146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph),
1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna,
129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120
mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but
higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), &
2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

Gene Kearns wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92
gallon
at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that
this
evening.


You may want to look a bit further for the real problem:

as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61

Damn, that's cheap. It's $3.01 down here.

And $3.79 on the water.




$3.82 one place on the water. Where I launched was $3.57 and he said it is
cheapest on water in the Sacramento Delta.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...


It may affect presently insured boaters also. Wait till renewal time.
Look at the increases in home and apartment insurance rates after Katrina.
Reading this morning that some $500k homes in New Orleans will go to $10k
a year in insurance. 400-500% increase in apartment building insurance
rates. Why should the people / government pay for peoples choice to build
in flood plains, etc. Lots of the river flood plains are now
non-insurable for federal flood insurance. Build on a beach and then cry
when the ocean takes your house, and figure that the rest of us will pay
to rebuild it. Bzzzt. wrong.

The guy that runs the little convenience store here at Kingman has a condo
in Stuwart, FL where he and his wife winter. He told me this morning that
the insurance on his condo just went up by $2k/yr.

Eisboch

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

Gene Kearns wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:40:35 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

Gas may also do it. Took the boat out today, and filled up at $2.92
gallon
at Costco and put $99 in the boat. $3.19 for diesel and $75 for that
this
evening.


You may want to look a bit further for the real problem:

as of yesterday, 87 octane at Sam's and Costco was $2.61

Damn, that's cheap. It's $3.01 down here.

And $3.79 on the water.




$2.46 at the local BP this afternoon. ;-)

Harry Krause wrote:
NOYB wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Harry Krause wrote:

NOYB wrote:

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now
impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the
boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable if
they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you.

I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul
the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a
winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap.

The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would
need
a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I
couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm
approached or whatever.

If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered?

No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under
$100,000. A 2002
would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly
$5000/year.


I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay
$150/month
storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And
I'd need
something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide.




No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat
trailer?

Incredible.

Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest
only loan!


My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in
March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the
end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They
won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell
tomorrow.





By December 31, 2008, it'll go at auction for $199,999.


...and NOYB will have to throw his boat in to sweeten the deal!

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
We had a similar situation here in Washington with health insurance. A
few years ago, the state legislature passed a law that said any company
writing health insurance in Washington could not refuse coverage to any
individual. The insurance companies could set the rates to reflect the
risk, of course, but they couldn't actually refuse anybody because they
presented too great a risk. Net result: A lot of insurance companies
just stopped writing health insurance in Washington, period.

Now imagine that the Federal gov't passed the same law about not refusing
coverage to an individual. The insurance companies couldn't just move to
another state to do business. They'd have to find a way to make it work.



After all,
what sort of premiums
can be charged to cover the cost of caring for some of the AIDS
patients who require many thousands of dollars in prescriptions each
month just to delay their certain death?


Every group health insurance policy is already required to accept an
individual despite pre-existing conditions. And it's a federal government
law that sees to that.






It's the same reason that you have trouble buying full coverage
mechanical insurance on a boat these days. Time was that if you blew up
your 5000 hour diesel engines the insurance company would scratch out a
check for $40,000 to offset your "loss". Not typical anymore. The
premiums charged cannot even begin to offset the almost certain "loss"
that every boat will eventually experience. The only reason you can buy
boat insurance from any carrier at any price in FLA is that some boats
will survive a hurricane, and most boats don't have to ride out a
hurricane in a specific location every year.


Good. So spread the risk over an even bigger population.

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...
Harry Krause wrote:
NOYB wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible
to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the
boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable
if
they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)
Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you.

I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul
the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a
winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap.

The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would
need
a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I
couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm
approached or whatever.

If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered?
No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000.
A 2002
would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly
$5000/year.


I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay
$150/month
storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And
I'd need
something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide.




No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat
trailer?

Incredible.
Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest
only loan!

My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in
March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the
end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They
won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell
tomorrow.





By December 31, 2008, it'll go at auction for $199,999.

Only if Hillary is President.




Don't bet on that. You guys are in for a big let down price wise sometime
soon. This insurance problem will only hasten that process. ;-)