It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now
impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if
the boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are
uninsurable if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice,
Progressive, and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage
(it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't
going to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it
is in Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure
them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing
similar is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it
has a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance
companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet
from a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it
makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it
out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a
hurricane zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax
dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist
attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in
hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists
chose to target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of
a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a
lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And
guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose
to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in
January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are
directly related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year?
How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about
2004? 2003? 2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One.
How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year
period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+
hurricanes only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately
15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is
nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a
severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the
2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all
over the country and around the world, and we would all like to
believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather?
Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or
153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and
hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one
nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with
winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been
hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every
7.7 years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one
was a category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945,
1953, 1969 (Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of
Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894
(104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115
mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph),
1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950
(107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy,
124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were
less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in
Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated
"Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to
damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.




And my house has never caught on fire either.

Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1
and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a
statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage
your boat?

All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat,
or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it.

Did you read the article I posted a link to?

I haven't had time yet.

I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing
Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher
insurance rates on boats.


I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope
that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or
hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house.

Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals
were in the discussion for that reason.




I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of
picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax
dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was
stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded
from a storm again sometime in the future.

I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this
thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my
tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not
being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes
to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest.



The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer
Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then
rebuilt using Federal low interest loans.

I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are
being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations
inland are also feeling the pinch.

Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in
another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow.


Yeah, winter is coming.........dammit!

But we do have our counter attack that you are aware of............the blue
hair invasion from the north, coming to your area soon. We hold special
classes for them in preparation for their annual invasion to the Sunshine
State, including how to drive slow, especially on the freeways, and how to
hold up lines in the grocery stores....... but only during the months of
November through March......... ;-)

We even got Canada to join in this effort!

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
 

NOYB wrote:
As I said before, this thread isn't about me or my predicament.

Is that your disclaimer against whining?




I started this thread because I thought it would be a good
conversation-starter about how the insurance companies are likely to do more
harm to the boat business than gas prices.

I don't see it that way, largely because I don't see how you
define "harm to the boat business" and partly because I see
"the boating business" as largely responsible for the mess
it's in. And it's dragged a lot of boaters with it.



.... Yet, hardly a week goes by
before someone starts a bitching and whining session about how gas prices
are going to kill the boating market.


But nobody ever does anything about it, of course. People
still drive their SUVs at 80mph.


Of course, those on the left can't figure out how to blame Bush for the
problems with the insurance industry, so they keep whining about gas prices
(as if Bush is somehow responsible for world demand).


No, but Bush & Cheney are responsible for deliberately
making the U.S. more dependent on oil, thus foreign imports
& Middle East politics, rather than less. So yeah, it's
pretty much his fault.


What I found most interesting of all is how the liberals who want to
socialize everything, and let the government take care of all of our
problems, were so lacking in sympathy to the plight of millions of
Floridians.

Funny you should see it this way. Wealthy boat owners are
not really much of a liberal constituency. And frankly, I
don't have much sympathy myself for people who indulge in
conspicuous consumption just because it's aggressively
marketed to them, and then whine that somebody else should
help them afford what they've become accustomed to.

There are many possible solutions to the problem, at least
one of which can be resolved thru individual fiscal
responsibility .... anybody else think it's comical that a
self-proclaimed 'conservative' didn't think of that?

Regards
Doug King

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
 

JimH wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:bLednetImuvZlHPZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast. com...

"NOYB" wrote in message
. earthlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:eJudnQsF4Psof3DZnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@comcas t.com...

"NOYB" wrote in message
as.earthlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:x7idnWlNUOXFEXDZnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@comc ast.com...

"NOYB" wrote in message
.earthlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:64KdnZjWt71RYXHZnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@co mcast.com...

"NOYB" wrote in message
s.earthlink.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
news:1156365986.935319.53920@b28g2000c wb.googlegroups.com...

NOYB wrote:

It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now
impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if
the boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are
uninsurable if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice,
Progressive, and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage
(it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't
going to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it
is in Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure
them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing
similar is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it
has a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance
companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet
from a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it
makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it
out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a
hurricane zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax
dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist
attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in
hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists
chose to target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of
a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a
lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And
guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose
to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in
January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are
directly related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year?
How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about
2004? 2003? 2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One.
How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year
period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+
hurricanes only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately
15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is
nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a
severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the
2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all
over the country and around the world, and we would all like to
believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather?
Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or
153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and
hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one
nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with
winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been
hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every
7.7 years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one
was a category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945,
1953, 1969 (Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of
Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894
(104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115
mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph),
1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950
(107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy,
124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were
less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in
Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated
"Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to
damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.




And my house has never caught on fire either.

Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1
and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a
statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage
your boat?

All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat,
or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it.

Did you read the article I posted a link to?

I haven't had time yet.

I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing
Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher
insurance rates on boats.


I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope
that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or
hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house.

Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals
were in the discussion for that reason.




I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of
picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax
dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was
stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded
from a storm again sometime in the future.

I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this
thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my
tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not
being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes
to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest.




The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer
Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then
rebuilt using Federal low interest loans.

I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are
being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations
inland are also feeling the pinch.

Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in
another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow.



Yeah, winter is coming.........dammit!

But we do have our counter attack that you are aware of............the blue
hair invasion from the north, coming to your area soon. We hold special
classes for them in preparation for their annual invasion to the Sunshine
State, including how to drive slow, especially on the freeways, and how to
hold up lines in the grocery stores....... but only during the months of
November through March......... ;-)

We even got Canada to join in this effort!


Darn right. Anything to teach those Sunshine Boys a lesson.

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...


Of course, those on the left can't figure out how to blame Bush for the
problems with the insurance industry, so they keep whining about gas
prices (as if Bush is somehow responsible for world demand).


George or Jeb?

Eisboch :-)

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...


Of course, those on the left can't figure out how to blame Bush for the
problems with the insurance industry, so they keep whining about gas
prices (as if Bush is somehow responsible for world demand).


George or Jeb?

Eisboch :-)

George now. Jeb in '08 through '16.

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
 

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now
impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if
the boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are
uninsurable if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice,
Progressive, and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000
coverage (it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't
going to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it
is in Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure
them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing
similar is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet
it has a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance
companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet
from a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it
makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average"
it out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a
hurricane zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax
dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist
attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in
hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists
chose to target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of
a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a
lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And
guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose
to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in
January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks
are directly related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year?
How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about
2004? 2003? 2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One.
How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year
period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+
hurricanes only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately
15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is
nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a
severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the
2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all
over the country and around the world, and we would all like to
believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather?
Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or
153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and
hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one
nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with
winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have
been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every
7.7 years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one
was a category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945,
1953, 1969 (Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of
Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894
(104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115
mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127
mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115
mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph),
1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's
winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island
and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120
mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated
"Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to
damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.




And my house has never caught on fire either.

Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1
and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a
statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage
your boat?

All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat,
or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it.

Did you read the article I posted a link to?

I haven't had time yet.

I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing
Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher
insurance rates on boats.


I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope
that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm
or hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house.

Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals
were in the discussion for that reason.




I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of
picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax
dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was
stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded
from a storm again sometime in the future.

I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this
thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my
tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not
being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes
to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest.



The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer
Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then
rebuilt using Federal low interest loans.

I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are
being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations
inland are also feeling the pinch.

Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in
another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow.


Yeah, winter is coming.........dammit!

But we do have our counter attack that you are aware of............the
blue hair invasion from the north, coming to your area soon. We hold
special classes for them in preparation for their annual invasion to the
Sunshine State, including how to drive slow, especially on the freeways,
and how to hold up lines in the grocery stores....... but only during the
months of November through March......... ;-)

We even got Canada to join in this effort!


I live 2 miles from work. Since November, 2005, I have put 3700 miles on my
car. Traffic doesn't bother me. When I'm not going back and forth to work
(weekends!), I'm on the boat.

Bring on the blue hairs. They show up for their appointments and pay their
bills on time.

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote:
NOYB wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Harry Krause wrote:

NOYB wrote:

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:26:02 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible
to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the
boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable
if
they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)

Hmmmm. So here's a scenario for you.

I have a custom made trailer for my Contender which is used to haul
the boat twice a season for a wash and wax. It also doubles as a
winter storage trailer - just put it on, park it and shrink wrap.

The only problem is if I wanted to take it from the yard, I would
need
a special permit because it's over-width for the highway. So I
couldn't just pick it up and move it away from the coast if a storm
approached or whatever.

If that boat was a, say 2000, would it be covered?

No. A 2000 wouldn't be covered unless it was valued under $100,000.
A 2002
would be covered, but the premium for a $100,000 boat is nearly
$5000/year.


I have no place to store a trailer unless I'm willing to pay
$150/month
storage fee. Even if I pulled the boat, where would I put it? And
I'd need
something that could tow upwards of 12,000 lbs that is 10'6" wide.




No room on the lot of that million dollar house to stash a boat
trailer?

Incredible.

Bwaaahaa!! He got hosed in the housing bubble. Along with an interest
only loan!


My house appraised in July, 2005 for 50% more than I paid for it in
March, 2004. The house next to mine is the same size, but sits on the
end of a canal (less desirable) and is listed for $1.59 million. They
won't get that, but if they lowered it to $1.2 million it would sell
tomorrow.





By December 31, 2008, it'll go at auction for $199,999.


..and NOYB will have to throw his boat in to sweeten the deal!

The boat is an albatross until it depreciates to a value less than $100k.
Insurance companies won't insure for more than $100k on boats 30' or more in
length.

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now
impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if
the boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are
uninsurable if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice,
Progressive, and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000
coverage (it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that
isn't going to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad
it is in Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure
them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing
similar is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet
it has a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance
companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow
through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet
from a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it
makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average"
it out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a
hurricane zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax
dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist
attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in
hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that
terrorists chose to target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim
of a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers
have a lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher
hurricane. And guess what? The risks are directly related to
where we each chose to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in
January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks
are directly related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last
year? How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How
about 2004? 2003? 2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One.
How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year
period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+
hurricanes only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately
15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is
nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a
severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the
2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all
over the country and around the world, and we would all like to
believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather?
Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or
153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and
hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one
nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with
winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have
been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a
look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every
7.7 years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and
one was a category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945,
1953, 1969 (Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of
Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph),
1894 (104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.),
1929 (115 mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph),
1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph),
1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell,
115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144
mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on
Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), &
2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I
stated "Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than
Charley to damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.




And my house has never caught on fire either.

Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1
and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a
statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage
your boat?

All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the
boat, or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it.

Did you read the article I posted a link to?

I haven't had time yet.

I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was
playing Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have
higher insurance rates on boats.


I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope
that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm
or hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house.

Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain
individuals were in the discussion for that reason.




I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of
picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax
dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was
stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded
from a storm again sometime in the future.

I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this
thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with
my tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not
being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes
to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest.



The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer
Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then
rebuilt using Federal low interest loans.

I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are
being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations
inland are also feeling the pinch.

Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in
another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow.


Yeah, winter is coming.........dammit!

But we do have our counter attack that you are aware of............the
blue hair invasion from the north, coming to your area soon. We hold
special classes for them in preparation for their annual invasion to the
Sunshine State, including how to drive slow, especially on the freeways,
and how to hold up lines in the grocery stores....... but only during the
months of November through March......... ;-)

We even got Canada to join in this effort!


I live 2 miles from work. Since November, 2005, I have put 3700 miles on
my car. Traffic doesn't bother me. When I'm not going back and forth to
work (weekends!), I'm on the boat.

Bring on the blue hairs. They show up for their appointments and pay
their bills on time.




Looks like we need to add a couple of classes, including 'How to keep
putting off paying your Florida dentist' and 'Tactics on creating traffic
jams in downtown and residential Naples'. ;-)

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
 

NOYB wrote:
" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:bLednetImuvZlHPZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast .com...

"NOYB" wrote in message
.earthlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:eJudnQsF4Psof3DZnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@comca st.com...

"NOYB" wrote in message
. pas.earthlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:x7idnWlNUOXFEXDZnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@com cast.com...

"NOYB" wrote in message
s.earthlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
news:64KdnZjWt71RYXHZnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@c omcast.com...

"NOYB" wrote in message
as.earthlink.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
news:1156365986.935319.53920@b28g2000 cwb.googlegroups.com...

NOYB wrote:

It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now
impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if
the boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are
uninsurable if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice,
Progressive, and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000
coverage (it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't
going to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it
is in Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure
them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing
similar is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet
it has a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance
companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet
from a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it
makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average"
it out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a
hurricane zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax
dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist
attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in
hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists
chose to target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of
a terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a
lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And
guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose
to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in
January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks
are directly related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year?
How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about
2004? 2003? 2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One.
How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year
period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+
hurricanes only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately
15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is
nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a
severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the
2004 hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all
over the country and around the world, and we would all like to
believe that we are safe from the ravages of hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather?
Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or
153 years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and
hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one
nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with
winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have
been hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every
7.7 years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one
was a category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945,
1953, 1969 (Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of
Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894
(104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115
mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127
mph), 1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115
mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph),
1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's
winds were less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island
and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120
mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated
"Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to
damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.




And my house has never caught on fire either.

Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1
and 2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a
statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage
your boat?

All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat,
or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it.

Did you read the article I posted a link to?

I haven't had time yet.

I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing
Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher
insurance rates on boats.


I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope
that you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm
or hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house.

Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals
were in the discussion for that reason.




I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of
picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax
dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was
stupid to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded
from a storm again sometime in the future.

I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this
thread saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my
tax dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not
being able to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes
to "tough luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest.




The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer
Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then
rebuilt using Federal low interest loans.

I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are
being affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations
inland are also feeling the pinch.

Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in
another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow.


Yeah, winter is coming.........dammit!

But we do have our counter attack that you are aware of............the
blue hair invasion from the north, coming to your area soon. We hold
special classes for them in preparation for their annual invasion to the
Sunshine State, including how to drive slow, especially on the freeways,
and how to hold up lines in the grocery stores....... but only during the
months of November through March......... ;-)

We even got Canada to join in this effort!



I live 2 miles from work. Since November, 2005, I have put 3700 miles on my
car. Traffic doesn't bother me. When I'm not going back and forth to work
(weekends!), I'm on the boat.

Bring on the blue hairs. They show up for their appointments and pay their
bills on time.



Yup.. lots of gold to mine in those 'Blue Rinse' mouths.

It's not fuel prices that's going to kill the boat market
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:43:52 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my
boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.

Wanna bet?

Give it to me for a week - I won't do anything other than operate it
and guaranteed, something will be broken, go icky balooky, take on
water - something similar. :)

Gain at least 500#.