"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:

Interesting. I went to my Chapman's to look up their definition of chop:

"The confused water action found at places where tidal currents meet is
called a chop, a term also applied to small, closely spaced waves
resulting
from wind action on small bodies of water."

So it looks like a 5 foot chop can be the same as 5 foot seas.

I don't boat on the ocean so I was not familiar with the first part of
the
definition. ;-)


Most boats can easily handle a 5-foot, 10-foot, or even larger ocean
*swell* if the waves are far enough apart (defined as a "period"
between swells) that they aren't too steep. You just go uuuuuuuup,
pause a second, and then go doooooooown. No big deal, unless you're
subject to sea sickness.

You certainly experience chop on the lake where you boat, as it is a
much shorter and steeper wave form created primarily by wind. With
enough fetch, even a lake of moderate size and certainly any of the
Great Lakes can become pretty nasty in 30-knot conditions.

Before you put Chapman's away, look up the Beaufort scale. My latest
copy is a 1985 edition and the scale is on page 327, but if you have
another edition it may be somewhere else in the book.

Look down the chart to Force 7 winds:

28-33 knots (32-38 mph). "Near Gale". "White foam from breaking waves
begins to be blown in streaks" BOATS REMAIN IN HARBOR; THOSE AT SEA
HEAVE-TO.
Effects observed on land: Whole trees in motion, resistance felt when
walking against wind.


I've been on a 900 foot cruise boat in 35 knot winds, and you get wet all
the way up to deck #6. Even with stabilizers, the boat rocked so much that
the housekeeping carts were rolling back and forth in the hallways. Seas
were 15-18 feet.

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

JimH wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:03:12 -0400, " JimH" not telling you @
pffftt.com
wrote:


"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
groups.com...

JR North wrote:
They should shoot that rear shot at the bottom of the page with
about a
2 foot following sea.
JR


If a following sea broke across the swimstep there could be some
flooding of the cockpit, but not as much as you might expect. ( There
is a huge, recessed deck drain just outside the companionway door).
The
sunpad and locker substitutes for a traditional transom, and the
passages to port and starboard are partially protected with
what would be, in effect, "reduced flow" transom doors. If the
following sea wasn't breaking, the boat would just ride up and over
the
top like any other and the increased pressure and effect on steering
would all be taking place below the waterline.

Tha said, the most natual fit for this boat would be somewhat
sheltered
waters. I don't think it was really intended to slop around in 30-kt
winds and 5-foot chop.


A shame that a 32 footer can handle only sheltered water because the
cockpit
will flood, especially in following seas. I can't seem to find where
you
mention that in your review though. ;-)


Do you never tire of it?


John, it is truly a shame that your *contribution* to the NG has sunk to
Kevin's level.

Hey, Jim, I love it how you are such a little ****ing cry baby!!!! Care
to wager that I'm not Kevin? Grow up.

If you're not Kevin, then why do you reply to all messages in which Jim
refers to Kevin? Are you friends with Kevin?

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 21 Aug 2006 14:41:30 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


Wayne.B wrote:
On 21 Aug 2006 13:37:37 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

The chart refers to waves of 4-6 meters at Force 7, but again those
would be swells.

Not necessarily so.

Force 7 over open water for a day or two will produce the real thing
with lots of breaking crests, nothing "swell" about them. Mix in a
little adverse current at the same time and you could produce some
really steep 4 to 6 meter waves. This happens fairly frequently in
the gulf stream between Florida and the Bahamas, especially in the
winter months.

I would certainly defer to your local knowledge in that regard.
Good reason not to be on the water during a Force 7 in the winter
months down there.

Buncha Pansies...

Why in my day, we'd go out in a 13 foot Swampscott dory and row our
way to Gloucester just for lunch in weather like that.

Up hill.

But you East Coast Pansies measure your waves and chops differently. Youse
guys probably figure a 2" porkchop is across as opposed to thickness.

Both ways.

Force 7 indeed - hell, we did it in Force 10 weather without breaking
a sweat.

Chuck Gould wrote:
JimH wrote:

Interesting. I went to my Chapman's to look up their definition of chop:

"The confused water action found at places where tidal currents meet is
called a chop, a term also applied to small, closely spaced waves resulting
from wind action on small bodies of water."

So it looks like a 5 foot chop can be the same as 5 foot seas.

I don't boat on the ocean so I was not familiar with the first part of the
definition. ;-)


Most boats can easily handle a 5-foot, 10-foot, or even larger ocean
*swell* if the waves are far enough apart (defined as a "period"
between swells) that they aren't too steep. You just go uuuuuuuup,
pause a second, and then go doooooooown. No big deal, unless you're
subject to sea sickness.

You certainly experience chop on the lake where you boat, as it is a
much shorter and steeper wave form created primarily by wind. With
enough fetch, even a lake of moderate size and certainly any of the
Great Lakes can become pretty nasty in 30-knot conditions.

Before you put Chapman's away, look up the Beaufort scale. My latest
copy is a 1985 edition and the scale is on page 327, but if you have
another edition it may be somewhere else in the book.

Look down the chart to Force 7 winds:

28-33 knots (32-38 mph). "Near Gale". "White foam from breaking waves
begins to be blown in streaks" BOATS REMAIN IN HARBOR; THOSE AT SEA
HEAVE-TO.
Effects observed on land: Whole trees in motion, resistance felt when
walking against wind.

The chart refers to waves of 4-6 meters at Force 7, but again those
would be swells.
There's no such thing as 18-foot chop- or if there is I never hope to
see it. :-)

Capable of structurally surviving such conditions and choosing to be
out in them are two different concepts.

Chop is like the fish somebody caught last week. The more times the
story of a stormy passage is told, the higher the waves seem to become.
There are probably a lot of guys who tell stories about 8-foot chop
that have never seen 5-footers. In places like Puget Sound or the
Chesapeake chop is usually very steep. Imagine hitting a 5-foot "speed
bump", and then imagine hitting another one every several seconds.
5-foot chop breaks just below the anchor pulpit on my 36-foot tug.
Those are some nasty and uncomfortable seas. 7-foot chop breaks over
the rail and floods the foredeck, and being out in that stuff is
insane.

Did I ever tell you about the time I was in "unexpected Tositito"?

Harry Krause wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:

JimH wrote:

Interesting. I went to my Chapman's to look up their definition of
chop:

"The confused water action found at places where tidal currents meet is
called a chop, a term also applied to small, closely spaced waves
resulting
from wind action on small bodies of water."

So it looks like a 5 foot chop can be the same as 5 foot seas.

I don't boat on the ocean so I was not familiar with the first part
of the
definition. ;-)



Most boats can easily handle a 5-foot, 10-foot, or even larger ocean
*swell* if the waves are far enough apart (defined as a "period"
between swells) that they aren't too steep. You just go uuuuuuuup,
pause a second, and then go doooooooown. No big deal, unless you're
subject to sea sickness.

You certainly experience chop on the lake where you boat, as it is a
much shorter and steeper wave form created primarily by wind. With
enough fetch, even a lake of moderate size and certainly any of the
Great Lakes can become pretty nasty in 30-knot conditions.

Before you put Chapman's away, look up the Beaufort scale. My latest
copy is a 1985 edition and the scale is on page 327, but if you have
another edition it may be somewhere else in the book.

Look down the chart to Force 7 winds:

28-33 knots (32-38 mph). "Near Gale". "White foam from breaking waves
begins to be blown in streaks" BOATS REMAIN IN HARBOR; THOSE AT SEA
HEAVE-TO.
Effects observed on land: Whole trees in motion, resistance felt when
walking against wind.

The chart refers to waves of 4-6 meters at Force 7, but again those
would be swells.
There's no such thing as 18-foot chop- or if there is I never hope to
see it. :-)

Capable of structurally surviving such conditions and choosing to be
out in them are two different concepts.

Chop is like the fish somebody caught last week. The more times the
story of a stormy passage is told, the higher the waves seem to become.
There are probably a lot of guys who tell stories about 8-foot chop
that have never seen 5-footers. In places like Puget Sound or the
Chesapeake chop is usually very steep. Imagine hitting a 5-foot "speed
bump", and then imagine hitting another one every several seconds.
5-foot chop breaks just below the anchor pulpit on my 36-foot tug.
Those are some nasty and uncomfortable seas. 7-foot chop breaks over
the rail and floods the foredeck, and being out in that stuff is
insane.



Gee, where does a sudden onset tostito fall, with its 30-foot waves?


In the Sea of Cortez, of course.

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 21 Aug 2006 14:41:30 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


Wayne.B wrote:

On 21 Aug 2006 13:37:37 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


The chart refers to waves of 4-6 meters at Force 7, but again those
would be swells.

Not necessarily so.

Force 7 over open water for a day or two will produce the real thing
with lots of breaking crests, nothing "swell" about them. Mix in a
little adverse current at the same time and you could produce some
really steep 4 to 6 meter waves. This happens fairly frequently in
the gulf stream between Florida and the Bahamas, especially in the
winter months.

I would certainly defer to your local knowledge in that regard.
Good reason not to be on the water during a Force 7 in the winter
months down there.


Buncha Pansies...

Why in my day, we'd go out in a 13 foot Swampscott dory and row our
way to Gloucester just for lunch in weather like that.

Up hill.

Both ways.

Force 7 indeed - hell, we did it in Force 10 weather without breaking
a sweat.


Tom.. you're starting to sound like NOYB's patients down there in
Florida. You know those guys who wear their pants almost up to their
armpits and the white buck shoes...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:51:57 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

My Grady will run at 15-18 mph in 4-5 foot chop without pounding. I've
run
it 22-26mph in those conditions, and it's murder. The secret to those
SKA
boats (Contender, Yellowfin, Fountain, Sea Vee, etc) is that they get up
and
run on top of the stuff.

I can attest to that although I've heard that the Yellowfins are a
rather wet ride for some reason. I have no personal knowledge of
that - just something I either read or heard.

I'd like to do one of those SKA tournies some day.

I wouldn't. They're a "captain's choice" format. They don't cancel the
tourney no matter the conditions. It's up to each individual team/captain
to decide if it's safe enough to go out. The one out of Key West this year
ran in 8-10 foot seas. 34' Fountains were doing 8 mph.

It's gotten to the point where a twin-engine 34' boat is getting too small
to compete.

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

JimH wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:03:12 -0400, " JimH" not telling you @
pffftt.com
wrote:


"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
groups.com...

JR North wrote:
They should shoot that rear shot at the bottom of the page with
about a
2 foot following sea.
JR


If a following sea broke across the swimstep there could be some
flooding of the cockpit, but not as much as you might expect. ( There
is a huge, recessed deck drain just outside the companionway door).
The
sunpad and locker substitutes for a traditional transom, and the
passages to port and starboard are partially protected with
what would be, in effect, "reduced flow" transom doors. If the
following sea wasn't breaking, the boat would just ride up and over
the
top like any other and the increased pressure and effect on steering
would all be taking place below the waterline.

Tha said, the most natual fit for this boat would be somewhat
sheltered
waters. I don't think it was really intended to slop around in 30-kt
winds and 5-foot chop.


A shame that a 32 footer can handle only sheltered water because the
cockpit
will flood, especially in following seas. I can't seem to find where
you
mention that in your review though. ;-)


Do you never tire of it?


John, it is truly a shame that your *contribution* to the NG has sunk to
Kevin's level.

Hey, Jim, I love it how you are such a little ****ing cry baby!!!! Care
to wager that I'm not Kevin? Grow up.

If you're not Kevin, then why do you reply to all messages in which Jim
refers to Kevin? Are you friends with Kevin?

Because he directly refers to MY POSTS. Damn, are you people really
that stupid? When you reply directly to a certain person, then you are
replying TO THAT PERSON.
Friends, not really. I do know him.

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:57:03 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:03:12 -0400, " JimH" not telling you @
pffftt.com
wrote:


"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
groups.com...

JR North wrote:
They should shoot that rear shot at the bottom of the page with
about a
2 foot following sea.
JR


If a following sea broke across the swimstep there could be some
flooding of the cockpit, but not as much as you might expect. ( There
is a huge, recessed deck drain just outside the companionway door).
The
sunpad and locker substitutes for a traditional transom, and the
passages to port and starboard are partially protected with
what would be, in effect, "reduced flow" transom doors. If the
following sea wasn't breaking, the boat would just ride up and over
the
top like any other and the increased pressure and effect on steering
would all be taking place below the waterline.

Tha said, the most natual fit for this boat would be somewhat
sheltered
waters. I don't think it was really intended to slop around in 30-kt
winds and 5-foot chop.


A shame that a 32 footer can handle only sheltered water because the
cockpit
will flood, especially in following seas. I can't seem to find where
you
mention that in your review though. ;-)


Do you never tire of it?


John, it is truly a shame that your *contribution* to the NG has sunk to
Kevin's level.

Hey, Jim, I love it how you are such a little ****ing cry baby!!!! Care
to wager that I'm not Kevin? Grow up.

If you're not Kevin, then why do you reply to all messages in which Jim
refers to Kevin? Are you friends with Kevin?

You know what they say - there are only six degrees of separation
between anybody and Kevin.

Bacon that is - Kevin Bacon. :)

Ah, maybe THAT'S what the local idiots are referring to!

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

JimH wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:03:12 -0400, " JimH" not telling you @
pffftt.com
wrote:


"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
groups.com...

JR North wrote:
They should shoot that rear shot at the bottom of the page with
about a
2 foot following sea.
JR


If a following sea broke across the swimstep there could be some
flooding of the cockpit, but not as much as you might expect. (
There
is a huge, recessed deck drain just outside the companionway
door).
The
sunpad and locker substitutes for a traditional transom, and the
passages to port and starboard are partially protected with
what would be, in effect, "reduced flow" transom doors. If the
following sea wasn't breaking, the boat would just ride up and
over
the
top like any other and the increased pressure and effect on
steering
would all be taking place below the waterline.

Tha said, the most natual fit for this boat would be somewhat
sheltered
waters. I don't think it was really intended to slop around in
30-kt
winds and 5-foot chop.


A shame that a 32 footer can handle only sheltered water because the
cockpit
will flood, especially in following seas. I can't seem to find
where
you
mention that in your review though. ;-)


Do you never tire of it?


John, it is truly a shame that your *contribution* to the NG has sunk
to
Kevin's level.

Hey, Jim, I love it how you are such a little ****ing cry baby!!!! Care
to wager that I'm not Kevin? Grow up.

If you're not Kevin, then why do you reply to all messages in which Jim
refers to Kevin? Are you friends with Kevin?

Because he directly refers to MY POSTS. Damn, are you people really
that stupid? When you reply directly to a certain person, then you are
replying TO THAT PERSON.
Friends, not really. I do know him.


In this case, Jim was responding to John's post. So why did you reply to
Jim's message that referred to Kevin?