Diaster in waiting....
 

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:27:57 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

Exxon 3Q 2005 gross profit 9.8%
Citigroup 2004 gross profit 15.7%
Altria Group 2004 gross profit 22%
Merck 2004 gross profit 25.3%

So there are other devils in the wood pile.

Figures from:

http://tinyurl.com/dj683

And exactly what is wrong with that? Do you have a problem with free
enterprise? If so, what would you replace it with?

Diaster in waiting....
 

"ACP" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"ACP" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:39:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

So, a bunch of
suits are playing games and sending a ripple effect throughout the
economy.

Time for the law to change.

Ahhhh yes, government price controls. Great idea, have you ever seen
it in action? You wouldn't be able to buy oil at any price because
everyone would be on allocation, and another giant federal
bureauacracy would spring up to (mis)manage the whole mess.

If you think commodities are such an easy get-rich-quick scheme, why
not put on your own "suit" and throw some money in the ring. A quick
call or two to your broker and you can be a master of the universe
also.


I'm not talking about price controls. I'm talking about eliminating the
trading of one particular commodity for "sport", by people who are in
no way connected to the business. You know as well as I do that the
majority of the price jumps have been "on concerns about" things in
places like Iraq which, in your wildest dreams, could not have
materially affected oil production in any way, shape or form. The
concept is as stupid as private investors selling all their mutual
funds because Home Depot reports bad earnings for the last quarter.


Ah, but if problems in Iraq expand to other oil producing countries in
the region, there could be a "real" problem in the oil supply pipeline.

That's "if". In the past, they have not. Here's a question: What are your
3 favorite main courses for dinner?

The past does not always indicate the future.

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If Kerry
HAD been elected.

Chicken, Fish, and Pizza....

Chicken - perfect! Hypothetical headline on the radio news as you're driving
home tonight:

"The price of chicken jumped 4% today. Our reporter covering the Chicago
Board of Exchange explained that speculators are worried about new reports
indicating bird flu was found for the first time in Greenland"

This continues, and a year from now, whole Perdue roasting chickens are
selling for $32.99 per pound, with no end in sight.

See...certain industries and professions think they're entitled to special
treatment. Doctors don't like it when patients are called customers. Oil
companies think they're special and should be insulated more than other
businesses from the vagaries of raw material costs.

Diaster in waiting....
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:57:08 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If Kerry
HAD been elected.

I doubt much would have been different. We seem to forget there was a
war going on in Iraq for the last year of 41s administration and the
entire 8 years of the Clinton administration. We could/should have got
out of there in 1991 instead of bombing them every day. The land war
was just the next loigical step if we didn't. After 9-11 "death from
the sky" was not an option.

Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored those
9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've loved it.

Diaster in waiting....
 

On 21 Jul 2006 08:45:27 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

The "free market" explanation for $4/gallon gas at the fuel dock and
the skyrocketing costs of chemicals that will soon put the price of new
fiberglass boats up to the stratosphere doesn't really work.

In a free market, competition to produce expands as demand to consume
expands and tends to moderate prices. Companies are forced to become
more efficient to flourish, even in prosperous times.

That will in fact happen, it just takes longer than you would like,
both for demand to decrease, and supply to increase. Our friends the
Saudis got caught up in that phenomenon after the crunch in the 70s
and early 80s. They and others increased production capacity, and
meanwhile we became more fuel efficient (for awhile). Prices dropped
like a stone until 1999 when gasoline was selling at the same price as
the early 50s adjusted for inflation. That's when I bought my Bertram
33 with the twin 454s and personally set off this latest crunch. :-)

It will happen again, but the cycle time is measured in 4 or 5 year
increments.

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 21 Jul 2006 08:45:27 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

The "free market" explanation for $4/gallon gas at the fuel dock and
the skyrocketing costs of chemicals that will soon put the price of new
fiberglass boats up to the stratosphere doesn't really work.

In a free market, competition to produce expands as demand to consume
expands and tends to moderate prices. Companies are forced to become
more efficient to flourish, even in prosperous times.

That will in fact happen, it just takes longer than you would like,
both for demand to decrease, and supply to increase. Our friends the
Saudis got caught up in that phenomenon after the crunch in the 70s
and early 80s. They and others increased production capacity, and
meanwhile we became more fuel efficient (for awhile). Prices dropped
like a stone until 1999 when gasoline was selling at the same price as
the early 50s adjusted for inflation. That's when I bought my Bertram
33 with the twin 454s and personally set off this latest crunch. :-)

It will happen again, but the cycle time is measured in 4 or 5 year
increments.


You know what would help? A president who, without a script, could provide
this kind of information and offer a certain level of confidence and
understanding to the public. Someday.....

Diaster in waiting....
 

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:54:08 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

What business are (or were) you in, Wayne?

I have spent most of my adult life managing computer systems for large
financial services organizations, not that it is really relevant to
the present discussion.

Diaster in waiting....
 

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:35:09 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

100% taxes on excess profits,

What is an excess profit? More than Microsoft makes? If so, we might
see gasoline at $50 per gallon.

The utility companies have lived with regulated ROI for many years, to
the point that not many people want to invest in new power production.

Personally I'd rather reward the oil companies for finding adequate
supplies than stand in line for gas, or go on rationing.

Diaster in waiting....
 

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:42:58 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

You know what would help? A president who, without a script, could provide
this kind of information and offer a certain level of confidence and
understanding to the public. Someday.....

Thanks (I think). For what it's worth I have no plans to seek higher
office, life on my flybridge is just fine. :-)

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:54:08 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

What business are (or were) you in, Wayne?

I have spent most of my adult life managing computer systems for large
financial services organizations, not that it is really relevant to
the present discussion.


I was wondering if you could imagine a situation where the selling price of
your product went haywire for reasons that could be described only as
"vapor".

Here's an idea: "Rochester Institute of Technology reports that enrollment
in their computer science department was down 14% compared with last year".
Next day, every IT person who's got a resumé online cranks up their salary
requirements because they interpret RIT's enrollment data to mean an
immediate shortage of IT staff.

Stupid, isn't it?

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:42:58 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

You know what would help? A president who, without a script, could provide
this kind of information and offer a certain level of confidence and
understanding to the public. Someday.....

Thanks (I think). For what it's worth I have no plans to seek higher
office, life on my flybridge is just fine. :-)


It's not secret information, but did you catch any of Bush's accidental
on-mike remarks at the G8 summit? Not only am I sure he could not explain
this information, but I'm 100% positive he cannot even see a reason why he
should try.

Diaster in waiting....
 

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:00:02 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Aha! You're the reason society is failing, tech support went overseas,
and everyone has voice mail.

I knew it.

You forgot about Bird Flu, HIV, and West Nile virus.

Diaster in waiting....
 

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:06:51 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Here's an idea: "Rochester Institute of Technology reports that enrollment
in their computer science department was down 14% compared with last year".
Next day, every IT person who's got a resumé online cranks up their salary
requirements because they interpret RIT's enrollment data to mean an
immediate shortage of IT staff.

If students graduated intstantly, and were hired the next day in an
auction market, that is exactly what would happen.

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:06:51 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Here's an idea: "Rochester Institute of Technology reports that enrollment
in their computer science department was down 14% compared with last
year".
Next day, every IT person who's got a resumé online cranks up their salary
requirements because they interpret RIT's enrollment data to mean an
immediate shortage of IT staff.

If students graduated intstantly, and were hired the next day in an
auction market, that is exactly what would happen.


Speculators function as if oil supplies behaved like those instant
graduates. The problem is that the prices do not come down when yesterday's
Baghdad incident is forgotten (usually the next day).

Diaster in waiting....
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
Don White wrote:

Chuck Gould wrote:



All something to think about while watching the price wheels whirl like
an old time Vegas slot machine next time you're pumping fuel into the
good ship CostaLotta.


I think the 'oil executives' should be the *******s considered terrorists.


Not at all. They have found a way to exploit the system, and are doing
so.
I'm surprised that they didn't realize, long ago, that there is no
practical upward limit to the amount they can raise prices. Even Bush
says, "We're addicted to oil". We are, and the Big Oil boys have a
corner on the crack supply. Doesn't matter how high the price goes, we
will pay. And if the only thing a person gives a ding about is the
amount of money going into the profit column on the p&l statement,
(with no regard to social costs
generated by prices spiraling out of sight) there's nothing wrong with
doubling, tripling, or quintupling quarter to quarter profits from the
sale of a resource that for many people isn't discretionary, but rather
essential.

What is disingenuous, however, is the constant running and ducking
behind "free market" and "supply and demand" excuses or the greatest
belly laugh of all, "our margin per gallon is only a few cents." Hoist
the skull and crossbones on the corporate spreader, clear for action,
and stand proud. I'd have more respect for BIG OIL if they would just
say, plainly, "We're going to gouge you, simply because we can, and if
you don't like it you can park your car or sell your boat. With his
$30-million annual salary, our CEO is contracting for a new 180-footer,
so don't come around here with some crap that these high oil prices
make boating unaffordable! As far as we're concerned, these high prices
make boating more affordable than ever. Neener, neener, neener."

In the '70s when this was happening, Canadians paid an extra 10 cents
per liter to buy our own oil business...Petro Canada.
The idea was to use it to keep the Esso/Texaco/Gulf people 'honest'.
Then a conservative gov't got in (led by Reagan's bum boy Brian
Mulroney) aand all of a sudden, Petro Canada went public and shares were
sold to Canadians (after we already paid for it through the levy).
I've never voted Conservative since and won't ever again.

Diaster in waiting....
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:32:20 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored those
9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've loved it.
-We were already ass deep in Iraq on 9-11. I agree we should have
simply said screw the Kurds and let Israel take care of themselves
(that was really who was threatened by WMDs).
The time to come home was 1991. THREE presidents had the chance and
ignored it.
If we were not in Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Jordan, 9-11 would have just
been the boring news day between 9-10 and 9-12
It certainly is not about oil. We buy from who ever sells it. We don't
seem to have a problem buying from Chavez and he hates our guts.

If the NSA has Chavez' phones & facilities bugged, they must be in stitches
listening to what goes on there. My theory is that he really doesn't hate
us. Rather, he fakes his rants just to yank Bush's chain. Then, he goes back
to his home or office and laughs hysterically with his pals.

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:32:20 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored
those
9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've loved
it.
-We were already ass deep in Iraq on 9-11. I agree we should have
simply said screw the Kurds and let Israel take care of themselves
(that was really who was threatened by WMDs).
The time to come home was 1991. THREE presidents had the chance and
ignored it.
If we were not in Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Jordan, 9-11 would have just
been the boring news day between 9-10 and 9-12
It certainly is not about oil. We buy from who ever sells it. We don't
seem to have a problem buying from Chavez and he hates our guts.

If the NSA has Chavez' phones & facilities bugged, they must be in
stitches listening to what goes on there. My theory is that he really
doesn't hate us. Rather, he fakes his rants just to yank Bush's chain.
Then, he goes back to his home or office and laughs hysterically with his
pals.


It would be revealing for many to learn that while there is dislike and
even hatred in the world for our current political leader and his cronies,
there is great love and affection among many of those same folks for the
American people. Much of the world realizes we are suffering, too. I'm
sure Chavez is delighted to sell his countries exports to us.

I'm hoping that in my lifetime, we'll have a president and a congress that
restores full, normal, diplomatic relations with Cuba.

That'll happen when another generation of Cuban immigrants dies. There'll
still be lots of lobbying money aimed at keeping Cuba cut off, from
corporations like Bacardi, but I suppose (in a fairy tale), there could be
legislators who'd ignore that pressure.

Diaster in waiting....
 

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:07:43 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:



I'm
sure Chavez is delighted to sell his countries exports to us.

I'm not so sure. Chavez is developing other markets, S. America and
China, for those exports. While Bush hasn't done anything to help the
situation, it is not his fault alone. A hundred years of American
imperialism with our southern neighbors is finally biting us in the ass.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/08/news...reut/index.htm

Diaster in waiting....
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:14:53 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I'm hoping that in my lifetime, we'll have a president and a congress
that
restores full, normal, diplomatic relations with Cuba.

That'll happen when another generation of Cuban immigrants dies. There'll
still be lots of lobbying money aimed at keeping Cuba cut off, from
corporations like Bacardi, but I suppose (in a fairy tale), there could be
legislators who'd ignore that pressure.

The embargo really has more to do with protecting Florida tourism and
"big sugar".

True, but there was an interesting story on one of the TV news mags a few
years back. Interviews with members of the Bacardi family. Two generations
later, these people are still really bitter. And have money & friends like
you wouldn't believe.

Diaster in waiting....
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"ACP" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"ACP" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:39:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

So, a bunch of
suits are playing games and sending a ripple effect throughout the
economy.

Time for the law to change.

Ahhhh yes, government price controls. Great idea, have you ever seen
it in action? You wouldn't be able to buy oil at any price because
everyone would be on allocation, and another giant federal
bureauacracy would spring up to (mis)manage the whole mess.

If you think commodities are such an easy get-rich-quick scheme, why
not put on your own "suit" and throw some money in the ring. A quick
call or two to your broker and you can be a master of the universe
also.


I'm not talking about price controls. I'm talking about eliminating
the trading of one particular commodity for "sport", by people who are
in no way connected to the business. You know as well as I do that the
majority of the price jumps have been "on concerns about" things in
places like Iraq which, in your wildest dreams, could not have
materially affected oil production in any way, shape or form. The
concept is as stupid as private investors selling all their mutual
funds because Home Depot reports bad earnings for the last quarter.


Ah, but if problems in Iraq expand to other oil producing countries in
the region, there could be a "real" problem in the oil supply pipeline.

That's "if". In the past, they have not. Here's a question: What are
your 3 favorite main courses for dinner?

The past does not always indicate the future.

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If Kerry
HAD been elected.

Chicken, Fish, and Pizza....

Chicken - perfect! Hypothetical headline on the radio news as you're
driving home tonight:

"The price of chicken jumped 4% today. Our reporter covering the Chicago
Board of Exchange explained that speculators are worried about new reports
indicating bird flu was found for the first time in Greenland"

This continues, and a year from now, whole Perdue roasting chickens are
selling for $32.99 per pound, with no end in sight.

See...certain industries and professions think they're entitled to special
treatment. Doctors don't like it when patients are called customers. Oil
companies think they're special and should be insulated more than other
businesses from the vagaries of raw material costs.

I don't buy Perdue, the yellow color turns me off 80.

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:27:57 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

Exxon 3Q 2005 gross profit 9.8%
Citigroup 2004 gross profit 15.7%
Altria Group 2004 gross profit 22%
Merck 2004 gross profit 25.3%

So there are other devils in the wood pile.

Figures from:

http://tinyurl.com/dj683

And exactly what is wrong with that? Do you have a problem with free
enterprise? If so, what would you replace it with?

There is nothing wrong with it in my view. I was just pointing out that Big
Oil is not the only group making what some would say is excessive profits.

Diaster in waiting....
 

"ACP" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"ACP" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"ACP" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:39:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

So, a bunch of
suits are playing games and sending a ripple effect throughout the
economy.

Time for the law to change.

Ahhhh yes, government price controls. Great idea, have you ever
seen
it in action? You wouldn't be able to buy oil at any price because
everyone would be on allocation, and another giant federal
bureauacracy would spring up to (mis)manage the whole mess.

If you think commodities are such an easy get-rich-quick scheme, why
not put on your own "suit" and throw some money in the ring. A
quick
call or two to your broker and you can be a master of the universe
also.


I'm not talking about price controls. I'm talking about eliminating
the trading of one particular commodity for "sport", by people who
are in no way connected to the business. You know as well as I do
that the majority of the price jumps have been "on concerns about"
things in places like Iraq which, in your wildest dreams, could not
have materially affected oil production in any way, shape or form.
The concept is as stupid as private investors selling all their
mutual funds because Home Depot reports bad earnings for the last
quarter.


Ah, but if problems in Iraq expand to other oil producing countries in
the region, there could be a "real" problem in the oil supply
pipeline.

That's "if". In the past, they have not. Here's a question: What are
your 3 favorite main courses for dinner?

The past does not always indicate the future.

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If
Kerry HAD been elected.

Chicken, Fish, and Pizza....

Chicken - perfect! Hypothetical headline on the radio news as you're
driving home tonight:

"The price of chicken jumped 4% today. Our reporter covering the Chicago
Board of Exchange explained that speculators are worried about new
reports indicating bird flu was found for the first time in Greenland"

This continues, and a year from now, whole Perdue roasting chickens are
selling for $32.99 per pound, with no end in sight.

See...certain industries and professions think they're entitled to
special treatment. Doctors don't like it when patients are called
customers. Oil companies think they're special and should be insulated
more than other businesses from the vagaries of raw material costs.

I don't buy Perdue, the yellow color turns me off 80.


All chicken would follow the pattern of price increases, just as all the oil
companies do.

Diaster in waiting....
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:42:58 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

You know what would help? A president who, without a script, could provide
this kind of information and offer a certain level of confidence and
understanding to the public. Someday.....

Thanks (I think). For what it's worth I have no plans to seek higher
office, life on my flybridge is just fine. :-)


It's not secret information, but did you catch any of Bush's accidental
on-mike remarks at the G8 summit? Not only am I sure he could not explain
this information, but I'm 100% positive he cannot even see a reason why he
should try.

And, he's been on video rubbing Germany's chancellor''s neck. Wonder if
all of the people who think Clinton was evil for messing with women
will think the same of GWB?

Diaster in waiting....
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:42:58 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

You know what would help? A president who, without a script, could
provide
this kind of information and offer a certain level of confidence and
understanding to the public. Someday.....

Thanks (I think). For what it's worth I have no plans to seek higher
office, life on my flybridge is just fine. :-)


It's not secret information, but did you catch any of Bush's accidental
on-mike remarks at the G8 summit? Not only am I sure he could not explain
this information, but I'm 100% positive he cannot even see a reason why
he
should try.

And, he's been on video rubbing Germany's chancellor''s neck. Wonder if
all of the people who think Clinton was evil for messing with women
will think the same of GWB?


Nah....his flock is too stupid to see the difference between the two
situations.

Diaster in waiting....
 

is the pot really worth stiring, guys?


JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:42:58 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

You know what would help? A president who, without a script, could
provide
this kind of information and offer a certain level of confidence and
understanding to the public. Someday.....

Thanks (I think). For what it's worth I have no plans to seek higher
office, life on my flybridge is just fine. :-)


It's not secret information, but did you catch any of Bush's accidental
on-mike remarks at the G8 summit? Not only am I sure he could not explain
this information, but I'm 100% positive he cannot even see a reason why
he
should try.

And, he's been on video rubbing Germany's chancellor''s neck. Wonder if
all of the people who think Clinton was evil for messing with women
will think the same of GWB?


Nah....his flock is too stupid to see the difference between the two
situations.

Diaster in waiting....
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
is the pot really worth stiring, guys?

I'm not stirring. I'm throwing in large stones from 20 feet up. I'll keep
doing it until I hear that members of the flock have begun hanging
themselves from their garage rafters, having realized their shame.

Diaster in waiting....
 

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 00:41:55 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
is the pot really worth stiring, guys?

I'm not stirring. I'm throwing in large stones from 20 feet up. I'll keep
doing it until I hear that members of the flock have begun hanging
themselves from their garage rafters, having realized their shame.


It's a shame, Doug, that you don't throw your rocks in a NG that would
appreciate them.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

Diaster in waiting....
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 00:41:55 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...
is the pot really worth stiring, guys?

I'm not stirring. I'm throwing in large stones from 20 feet up. I'll keep
doing it until I hear that members of the flock have begun hanging
themselves from their garage rafters, having realized their shame.


It's a shame, Doug, that you don't throw your rocks in a NG that would
appreciate them.

John

I appreciate them. Why waste rounds on an enemy you are NOT familiar with?

Diaster in waiting....
 

Doug. why don't youpost this over in alt.guitar.bass
I've answered your psot over there.

I'm sure other bass players would dig your political ferver.......

BTW, I'm not a member of "the flock" and I will not be hanging myself
anytime soon


JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
is the pot really worth stiring, guys?

I'm not stirring. I'm throwing in large stones from 20 feet up. I'll keep
doing it until I hear that members of the flock have begun hanging
themselves from their garage rafters, having realized their shame.

Diaster in waiting....
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
is the pot really worth stiring, guys?

I'm not stirring. I'm throwing in large stones from 20 feet up. I'll keep
doing it until I hear that members of the flock have begun hanging
themselves from their garage rafters, having realized their shame.


Doug. why don't youpost this over in alt.guitar.bass
I've answered your psot over there.

I'm sure other bass players would dig your political ferver.......

BTW, I'm not a member of "the flock" and I will not be hanging myself
anytime soon



You're far from being a member of the flock. Take that as a compliment.

Diaster in waiting....
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:57:08 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If Kerry
HAD been elected.
I doubt much would have been different. We seem to forget there was a
war going on in Iraq for the last year of 41s administration and the
entire 8 years of the Clinton administration. We could/should have got
out of there in 1991 instead of bombing them every day. The land war
was just the next loigical step if we didn't. After 9-11 "death from
the sky" was not an option.

Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored those
9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've loved it.

Patience Doug, patience.

Diaster in waiting....
 

I thought that was Dick "Chaingang" ,Donald "Rumbottle", and Ann
"Coultergheist",


Harry Krause wrote:
Bert Robbins wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:57:08 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If Kerry
HAD been elected.
I doubt much would have been different. We seem to forget there was a
war going on in Iraq for the last year of 41s administration and the
entire 8 years of the Clinton administration. We could/should have got
out of there in 1991 instead of bombing them every day. The land war
was just the next loigical step if we didn't. After 9-11 "death from
the sky" was not an option.
Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored those
9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've loved it.

Patience Doug, patience.


Bertbrain is getting ready to head over with the rest of the chickenhawk
guys, Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and Ann Coultergeist.

Diaster in waiting....
 

As usual Krause got it wrong again!


wrote:

I thought that was Dick "Chaingang" ,Donald "Rumbottle", and Ann
"Coultergheist",


Harry Krause wrote:
Bert Robbins wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:57:08 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If Kerry
HAD been elected.
I doubt much would have been different. We seem to forget there was a
war going on in Iraq for the last year of 41s administration and the
entire 8 years of the Clinton administration. We could/should have got
out of there in 1991 instead of bombing them every day. The land war
was just the next loigical step if we didn't. After 9-11 "death from
the sky" was not an option.
Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored those
9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've loved it.
Patience Doug, patience.

Bertbrain is getting ready to head over with the rest of the chickenhawk
guys, Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and Ann Coultergeist.

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:57:08 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If
Kerry
HAD been elected.
I doubt much would have been different. We seem to forget there was a
war going on in Iraq for the last year of 41s administration and the
entire 8 years of the Clinton administration. We could/should have got
out of there in 1991 instead of bombing them every day. The land war
was just the next loigical step if we didn't. After 9-11 "death from
the sky" was not an option.

Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored those
9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've loved it.

Patience Doug, patience.

It will never happen.

Diaster in waiting....
 

wrote in message
...
On 21 Jul 2006 14:51:58 -0700, "basskisser"
wrote:

And, he's been on video rubbing Germany's chancellor''s neck. Wonder if
all of the people who think Clinton was evil for messing with women
will think the same of GWB?

It's a little different GW didn't have his dick in her mouth while he
was rubbing her neck..

Baaaahhh.....baaahhhh....

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 21 Jul 2006 14:51:58 -0700, "basskisser"
wrote:

And, he's been on video rubbing Germany's chancellor''s neck. Wonder if
all of the people who think Clinton was evil for messing with women
will think the same of GWB?
It's a little different GW didn't have his dick in her mouth while he
was rubbing her neck..

Baaaahhh.....baaahhhh....


Yeah, that is certainly worse than lying the country into a war, sending
2500+ American soldiers to their deaths, seeing 50,000 Iraqis killed,
blowing $300 billion of the taxpayers' money, watching North Korea and
Iran become more dangerous and ignoring Lebanon while Hezbollah reemerges.
Wait...I forgot...sitting in a Florida kindergarten while the World Trade
Center and the Pentagon are attacked. Oh...and $3.00+ gasoline.

Yeah, we're sure a lot better off now after six years of Dubya then we
were when the guy who couldn't keep his pants zipped occupied the White
House. After all, we've got protection for the flag brewing,

Flag brewing? :-)


we're taking the offensive against homosexuals,

It's about damned time.


and Big Brother is now saving us from ourselves by intercepting our
communications.

I won't even order a pizza over the phone these days.

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 21 Jul 2006 14:51:58 -0700, "basskisser"
wrote:

And, he's been on video rubbing Germany's chancellor''s neck. Wonder
if
all of the people who think Clinton was evil for messing with women
will think the same of GWB?
It's a little different GW didn't have his dick in her mouth while he
was rubbing her neck..
Baaaahhh.....baaahhhh....

Yeah, that is certainly worse than lying the country into a war, sending
2500+ American soldiers to their deaths, seeing 50,000 Iraqis killed,
blowing $300 billion of the taxpayers' money, watching North Korea and
Iran become more dangerous and ignoring Lebanon while Hezbollah
reemerges. Wait...I forgot...sitting in a Florida kindergarten while the
World Trade Center and the Pentagon are attacked. Oh...and $3.00+
gasoline.

Yeah, we're sure a lot better off now after six years of Dubya then we
were when the guy who couldn't keep his pants zipped occupied the White
House. After all, we've got protection for the flag brewing,

Flag brewing? :-)


we're taking the offensive against homosexuals,

It's about damned time.


and Big Brother is now saving us from ourselves by intercepting our
communications.

I won't even order a pizza over the phone these days.



No need to with DiGiorno's thin crust supreme to which I add olives and
onions. I find it far superior to any of the ersatz pizza the big boys
deliver. There's nothing worse than Domino's pizza.


I was referring to the security risks involved with ordering pizza on the
phone.


By the way, have you been following the news coming from Iraq the last two
weeks?

It's gotten worse there, a lot worse.

Wrong. We're winning their hearts and minds.

Diaster in waiting....
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:57:08 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If
Kerry
HAD been elected.
I doubt much would have been different. We seem to forget there was a
war going on in Iraq for the last year of 41s administration and the
entire 8 years of the Clinton administration. We could/should have got
out of there in 1991 instead of bombing them every day. The land war
was just the next loigical step if we didn't. After 9-11 "death from
the sky" was not an option.
Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored those
9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've loved it.
Patience Doug, patience.

It will never happen.

You negativity and attempts at strong arming people is very telling of
your character and leads me to understand your current situation.

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:57:08 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If
Kerry
HAD been elected.
I doubt much would have been different. We seem to forget there was a
war going on in Iraq for the last year of 41s administration and the
entire 8 years of the Clinton administration. We could/should have got
out of there in 1991 instead of bombing them every day. The land war
was just the next loigical step if we didn't. After 9-11 "death from
the sky" was not an option.
Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored
those 9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've
loved it.
Patience Doug, patience.

It will never happen.

You negativity and attempts at strong arming people is very telling of
your character and leads me to understand your current situation.



You do not believe we will ever touch Saudi Arabia.

Diaster in waiting....
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:57:08 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If
Kerry
HAD been elected.
I doubt much would have been different. We seem to forget there was a
war going on in Iraq for the last year of 41s administration and the
entire 8 years of the Clinton administration. We could/should have got
out of there in 1991 instead of bombing them every day. The land war
was just the next loigical step if we didn't. After 9-11 "death from
the sky" was not an option.
Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored
those 9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've
loved it.
Patience Doug, patience.
It will never happen.
You negativity and attempts at strong arming people is very telling of
your character and leads me to understand your current situation.



You do not believe we will ever touch Saudi Arabia.



Give it time. You need to realize that these things take time. The scale
of time may be 5, 10 or 30 years.

Diaster in waiting....
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:57:08 -0400, "ACP"
wrote:

"If" Bush 43 hadn't been elected. "If" Gore HAD been elected. "If
Kerry
HAD been elected.
I doubt much would have been different. We seem to forget there was
a
war going on in Iraq for the last year of 41s administration and the
entire 8 years of the Clinton administration. We could/should have
got
out of there in 1991 instead of bombing them every day. The land war
was just the next loigical step if we didn't. After 9-11 "death from
the sky" was not an option.
Perhaps if we'd successfully gone after the country that sponsored
those 9/11 animals, the world would've applauded. Even NOYB would've
loved it.
Patience Doug, patience.
It will never happen.
You negativity and attempts at strong arming people is very telling of
your character and leads me to understand your current situation.



You do not believe we will ever touch Saudi Arabia.

Give it time. You need to realize that these things take time. The scale
of time may be 5, 10 or 30 years.


Never happen. They are one of the biggest customers for our most advanced
weapons. The usual suspects will make sure nothing happens to a customer
like that.