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#1
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Mexicans Vow to Keep Coming
Graphic Queen wrote: Those who want to come to the USA, in violation of our immigration laws, will continue to come, until and unless, we the American people, defeat their morale. As long as they hold out the hopes and dreams, of reaching the "land of milk and honey" or the "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow", then we will continue to face them. They come for opportunity, but face the reality of market saturation, hunger and suffering. There are not enough jobs, or resources to support them at this rate. We must also defeat the morale of the illegals already here, and motivate them to self-deport. We must cut off their supplies of water and food. We must deter their enablers who assist them, and the transporters who move them. We must stop the employers who provide them employment. Our governments have proved, in the past and present, that they can make immigration laws, as long as the lumberjacks can fell trees and the paper mills can make paper, but all the immigration laws written, on the by-products of all the dead trees, don't mean anything without enforcement. Our governments, from federal to local, have proven dysfunctional, in the enforcement of immigration laws. We must rise up and defend our Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic. We must carry the torch, and scythe, and enforce our immigration laws, so as to end this quagmire. We shall remember in November, and beyond, those traitors and tyrants, who have betrayed our trust, and our sovereignty. It is in our hands to remove the illegals from our nation, and to defeat the efforts of those who will try to violate our immigration laws. We must rise and repel the invaders, at the borders, and evict those aliens in our towns. You the people of the United States of America, have the power of citizenship and the duty and honor, under the US Constitution, and within the Bill of rights, to protect this nation, now, or forever allow it to be surrendered to the invading forces. What say you my fellow patriots? rise and fight--or-- surrender? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'It will always be like this' As Bush tries to stop migrants, Mexicans vow to continue illegal trips north NOGALES, Mexico - Mexicans say it will take more than three layers of fence and 6,000 National Guard troops to keep them out of the United States. As President Bush visited the stretch of Arizona desert Thursday that serves as a cactus-studded freeway for thousands of undocumented migrants, those preparing to make the perilous trip said they will find a way around almost any obstacle. "We'll go under it, we'll go over it, we'll go through the air, the sea or the earth, but they're never going to stop us from crossing," said Jesus Santana, a Tijuana truck driver who was caught trying to cross and deported. Increased security will likely only serve to make smuggling fees more expensive and drive immigrants deeper into debt, making them even more desperate to make it north. As a tired, bedraggled column of deportees filed across a Nogales border bridge Thursday - just as Bush was giving a speech on border security west of here - some migrants were already furiously dialing cell phones to contact immigrant smugglers for their next attempt. "Of course we'll cross again. We're just waiting for them to come and pick us up," said Javier Torres, 22, of Cuiliacan, Sinaloa. Just 100 yards away, vans of the kind used by smugglers waited under an underpass to pick up groups of deportees. The deportees were greeted on the Mexican side by Martin Doriane, who for the last four years has surveyed returning migrants for the Colegio de la Frontera Norte. Doraine says at least 95 percent of migrants caught and deported say they'll try again, in part because they've sold everything they own in Mexico to pay increasingly expensive and sophisticated smuggling efforts to overcome tightened border security. "They say, 'I had a roof and a frying pan in Mexico, but I sold both to come north and went into debt, so what do I have to return to?"' Doraine said. Seeking 'a different life' One of the deportees, Maria del Carmen Valadez, brought her 12-year-old son, Julio Cesar Castaneda, on the dangerous two-day trek through the desert. The boy hungrily ate a taco Doriane gave him as his mother acknowledged "it is a risk" to bring a child on such a dangerous trip. "I did it to give him a different life," said Valadez, of Fresnillo in Zacatecas in northern Mexico. She said she'll probably try to cross again, because in her hometown, "there's nothing but poverty." That sense of desperation - and determination - is everywhere. On Monday, a detained woman told agents she had left her 3-year-old son dead in the desert. The proposed 370 miles of triple-layer fencing, approved by the Senate Wednesday, as well as Bush's plan to send National Guard troops to play supporting roles in border enforcement, has raised tempers and tensions here. "Somebody is going to start shooting, and then there will be problems between the two countries," predicted Santana, the Tijuana truck driver. Mexico airs concerns Mexico's government has expressed concern about the wall and National Guard proposals, saying they aren't the way to solve problems of border security and illegal migration north. "Most countries want to bring their people together and tear down physical, commercial and cultural barriers," presidential spokesman Ruben Aguilar said Thursday. "Anyone who proposes separating them is out of line. Walls are a sign of distrust, and that will never be the basis of a good friendship between two countries." The Senate measure includes provisions that would give some undocumented immigrants a path toward citizenship and allow more people to work temporarily in the United States. But Santana said he saw no advances in the sweeping reform package. "There will always be more people wanting to come," he said. "It will always be like this." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12860863/ -- Constitution of Mexico: FOREIGNERS may NOT, in any manner, involve themselves in the political affairs of the COUNTRY! The supreme kisser of hispanic butts, President Bush, and most of the US Senate should be on trial for treason. They have failed to protect our southern border and have pushed for legislation that would increase the flooding of America by third-world aliens. A problem is that the old "Silent Majority" is mostly a collection of lard-assed, feminized, PC'd, White males. Worthless. Arch http://www.newnation.com/index2.html New Nation News |
#2
posted to rec.arts.books,rec.aviation.military,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.boats,rec.games.bridge
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Mexicans Vow to Keep Coming
Wrong group, unless they're coming by boat.
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#4
posted to rec.arts.books,rec.aviation.military,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.boats,rec.games.bridge
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Mexicans Vow to Keep Coming
wrote:
... The basic failure is an economic one. Mobility of labor is a vital part of the EU. Indeed my claim is that you cannot have a free economy without freedom of all the ingedients - Capital, Labor, Goods and Tell that to the French -- their huge scare about "the threat of Polish plumber" crippled the Services Directive, and still today a Polish plumber cannot freely go practice his trade in France (or, I believe, Italy or Germany) without serious hassles making this or that "illegal". The only plus of the EU, here, is that having these immigration hassles as a state-level decision enables sensible states (Ireland, the UK, Sweden, ...) to have much saner immigration policies, while, in the US, even states which might LOVE to let good workers in (I suspect California, Texas or Florida might, for example) must still kowtow on immigration issues to heartland rednecks (OTOH, the fragmentation hurts the EU on currency issues, for example: having theoretically free movement of capital is hampered by that capital needing to be all the time converted -- at a price each time -- among euros, pounds, kroner, .... having just 1 single currency, the dollar, helps the US!). Alex |
#5
posted to rec.arts.books,rec.aviation.military,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.boats,rec.games.bridge
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Mexicans Vow to Keep Coming
Alex Martelli wrote: wrote: ... The basic failure is an economic one. Mobility of labor is a vital part of the EU. Indeed my claim is that you cannot have a free economy without freedom of all the ingedients - Capital, Labor, Goods and Tell that to the French -- their huge scare about "the threat of Polish plumber" crippled the Services Directive, and still today a Polish plumber cannot freely go practice his trade in France (or, I believe, Italy or Germany) without serious hassles making this or that "illegal". The only plus of the EU, here, is that having these immigration hassles as a state-level decision enables sensible states (Ireland, the UK, Sweden, ...) to have much saner immigration policies, while, in the US, even states which might LOVE to let good workers in (I suspect California, Texas or Florida might, for example) must still kowtow on immigration issues to heartland rednecks (OTOH, the fragmentation hurts the EU on currency issues, for example: having theoretically free movement of capital is hampered by that capital needing to be all the time converted -- at a price each time -- among euros, pounds, kroner, ... having just 1 single currency, the dollar, helps the US!). Alex You have highlighted one very impoertant point - the mutual recognition of qualifications. There are "headline" tariff barriers. There are also non tariff barriers. I fully support the work of the WTO although I consider it work to be limited. When you get things as brazen as agricultural policies (both EU and US), the support bive to BOTH Boeing and Airbus, this fact is often forgotten. Airbus A local trade orgainization NAFTA or the EU must also be looking at non tariff barriers as well. Could I say that my own country Great Nritain is admitttting Poles and other Easterners on a non restrictive basis. The British economy is benefiiting. The french evonomy isn't. Anyway the pot calling the kettle black is not going to solver henispheric problems. Since when did America take a lead from France?. France is no friend of Britain's, or Mexico's. |
#6
posted to rec.arts.books,rec.aviation.military,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.boats,rec.games.bridge
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Mexicans Vow to Keep Coming
wrote:
... The only plus of the EU, here, is that having these immigration hassles as a state-level decision enables sensible states (Ireland, the UK, Sweden, ...) to have much saner immigration policies, while, in the US, ... Could I say that my own country Great Nritain is admitttting Poles and other Easterners on a non restrictive basis. The British economy is You could say it, but it would duplicate what I just wrote (and you quoted, and I'm re-quoting:-) by listing the UK (which presumably means the same as "Great Nritain", although I must admit not being familiar with any country which spells its name that way:-) among the "sensible states" with "much saner immigration policies". benefiiting. The french evonomy isn't. Anyway the pot calling the kettle black is not going to solver henispheric problems. Who said anything about _solving_? I'm just disputing the claim that mobility of labor *IS* (as opposed to "should be") working in the EU: it isn't (though it should be) due to the resistance of big continental countries (Italy and Germany as well as France) -- the only plus is that sensible countries get to follow more sensible policies... which, as I said, unfortunately does not apply in the US: Federal power is too strong here, so sensible states may still have to toe the line no matter what _their_ voters think. E.g., http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2...pendent/news/9 ..txt: "New Jerseyans by a two-to-one margin favor legalizing undocumented immigrants who have worked in the United States for at least two years ... 69 percent of Democrats surveyed supporting legalization for immigrants already here, compared to 62 percent of Republicans"; http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/15071773.htm: "53 percent of Californians and 50 percent of voters said they favor a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. About 34 percent of adults in the state, and 35 percent of voters, oppose the plan" -- it's hardly a partisan issue here, more of a generational one, "Among residents 18 to 34 years old, 68 percent said they support the idea, and 19 percent said they oppose it. But among residents 55 and older, 41 percent said they favor allowing illegal immigrants to gain legal status, with 46 percent opposed". But, of course, US reactionaries only CLAIM to support "states' rights" when some states want to deviate from federal norms in a direction that the right-wing LIKES -- they show their true colors when states want to vary in a direction they hate, as already shown, e.g., in their reaction against all states choosing to allow medical use of cannabis. Since when did America take a lead from France?. France is no friend of Britain's, or Mexico's. I believe America "took a lead from France" a bit over 230 years ago, when they rebelled against you guys and managed to secede with some minor help from a French expeditionary force (Lafayette is still remembered rather fondly around here because of that); after that, the rapport between the USA and France has gone through a lot of ups and downs (for example, the Statue of Liberty was a gift to the US from France during one of the ups) -- just like the rapport between the USA and the UK, after all, albeit the peaks and throughs came usually at different times. I'm not sure what this (albeit fascinating) historical discussion may have to do with the debate, mind you, but I always find historical analysis fascinating as an end in itself, anyway. As for friendship between countries, I'm not sure how to measure it; I do know that France is the 11th largest supplier, 14th largest customer, and 7th largest investor (FDI) in Mexico, for example (http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/cou...o_435/france-a nd-mexico_3114/economic-relations_3683.html) while France's ties with the UK are much closer (3rd biggest customer, 5th biggest supplier, 3rd largest investor for FDI...). But do close economic ties mean "friendship"...? Alex |
#7
posted to rec.arts.books,rec.aviation.military,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.boats,rec.games.bridge
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Mexicans Vow to Keep Coming
Alex Martelli wrote: As for friendship between countries, I'm not sure how to measure it; I do know that France is the 11th largest supplier, 14th largest customer, and 7th largest investor (FDI) in Mexico, for example (http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/cou...o_435/france-a nd-mexico_3114/economic-relations_3683.html) while France's ties with the UK are much closer (3rd biggest customer, 5th biggest supplier, 3rd largest investor for FDI...). But do close economic ties mean "friendship"...? What you say here is quite important. Does trade follow the flag, or does it follow the cheapest and highest quality. If trade "follows the flag" then this is indeed a great distortion. The Great and the Good (the GGs) tend rather to speak with forked tongue on this. They pay lip service to such organizations as the WTO, yet they insist on the "flag". The point you made about medicinal cannabis is a good one. To be fair though cannabis is not a pure substance. There are a large number of Cannaboids each with a somewhat different pharmacological action. You need to be able to produce known compositions reproducibly before you can really use cannabis medicinally. However you are right the Right wing states rights lobby are NOT pharmacists. On states rights I did mention a wall round Wisconsin rather jokingly. However the point is an important one. What freedom should people be given to roam? Why stop at a wall between Spanish speaking and English speaking America? There is of course an overall EU immigation policy. I would still however claim that economic progress in places like Morocco is the long term answer. In any case the restriction external to the EU do not parallel those of Mexico. 1) There is NAFTS or rather NAFF TA as I call it. The purpose of that should be to iron out differences. 2) The US is getting MORE restictive with time. Up to the 1960s there were NO restrictions on the Western Hemishere. Iraq is a long way away. However if the US loses it in the Western Hemisphere its days as a global power are numbered. Sheer arithmetic is against it. |
#8
posted to rec.arts.books,rec.aviation.military,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.boats,rec.games.bridge
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Mexicans Vow to Keep Coming
WE ARE ALL MEMBERS OF PLANET EARTH, THE SOLAR SYSTEM, THE MILKY WAY GALAXY, AND THE INFINITE UNIVERSE!!!!!!!! WHAT COUNTRY PEOPLE HAPPEN TO LIVE IN IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVENT!!!! -"jordie" |
#9
posted to rec.arts.books,rec.aviation.military,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.boats
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Mexicans Vow to Keep Coming
wrote: Graphic Queen wrote: Those who want to come to the USA, in violation of our immigration laws, will continue to come, until and unless, we the American people, defeat their morale. As long as they hold out the hopes and dreams, of reaching the "land of milk and honey" or the "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow", then we will continue to face them. They come for opportunity, but face the reality of market saturation, hunger and suffering. There are not enough jobs, or resources to support them at this rate. We must also defeat the morale of the illegals already here, and motivate them to self-deport. We must cut off their supplies of water and food. We must deter their enablers who assist them, and the transporters who move them. We must stop the employers who provide them employment. Our governments have proved, in the past and present, that they can make immigration laws, as long as the lumberjacks can fell trees and the paper mills can make paper, but all the immigration laws written, on the by-products of all the dead trees, don't mean anything without enforcement. Our governments, from federal to local, have proven dysfunctional, in the enforcement of immigration laws. We must rise up and defend our Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic. We must carry the torch, and scythe, and enforce our immigration laws, so as to end this quagmire. We shall remember in November, and beyond, those traitors and tyrants, who have betrayed our trust, and our sovereignty. It is in our hands to remove the illegals from our nation, and to defeat the efforts of those who will try to violate our immigration laws. We must rise and repel the invaders, at the borders, and evict those aliens in our towns. You the people of the United States of America, have the power of citizenship and the duty and honor, under the US Constitution, and within the Bill of rights, to protect this nation, now, or forever allow it to be surrendered to the invading forces. What say you my fellow patriots? rise and fight--or-- surrender? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'It will always be like this' As Bush tries to stop migrants, Mexicans vow to continue illegal trips north NOGALES, Mexico - Mexicans say it will take more than three layers of fence and 6,000 National Guard troops to keep them out of the United States. As President Bush visited the stretch of Arizona desert Thursday that serves as a cactus-studded freeway for thousands of undocumented migrants, those preparing to make the perilous trip said they will find a way around almost any obstacle. "We'll go under it, we'll go over it, we'll go through the air, the sea or the earth, but they're never going to stop us from crossing," said Jesus Santana, a Tijuana truck driver who was caught trying to cross and deported. Increased security will likely only serve to make smuggling fees more expensive and drive immigrants deeper into debt, making them even more desperate to make it north. As a tired, bedraggled column of deportees filed across a Nogales border bridge Thursday - just as Bush was giving a speech on border security west of here - some migrants were already furiously dialing cell phones to contact immigrant smugglers for their next attempt. "Of course we'll cross again. We're just waiting for them to come and pick us up," said Javier Torres, 22, of Cuiliacan, Sinaloa. Just 100 yards away, vans of the kind used by smugglers waited under an underpass to pick up groups of deportees. The deportees were greeted on the Mexican side by Martin Doriane, who for the last four years has surveyed returning migrants for the Colegio de la Frontera Norte. Doraine says at least 95 percent of migrants caught and deported say they'll try again, in part because they've sold everything they own in Mexico to pay increasingly expensive and sophisticated smuggling efforts to overcome tightened border security. "They say, 'I had a roof and a frying pan in Mexico, but I sold both to come north and went into debt, so what do I have to return to?"' Doraine said. Seeking 'a different life' One of the deportees, Maria del Carmen Valadez, brought her 12-year-old son, Julio Cesar Castaneda, on the dangerous two-day trek through the desert. The boy hungrily ate a taco Doriane gave him as his mother acknowledged "it is a risk" to bring a child on such a dangerous trip. "I did it to give him a different life," said Valadez, of Fresnillo in Zacatecas in northern Mexico. She said she'll probably try to cross again, because in her hometown, "there's nothing but poverty." That sense of desperation - and determination - is everywhere. On Monday, a detained woman told agents she had left her 3-year-old son dead in the desert. The proposed 370 miles of triple-layer fencing, approved by the Senate Wednesday, as well as Bush's plan to send National Guard troops to play supporting roles in border enforcement, has raised tempers and tensions here. "Somebody is going to start shooting, and then there will be problems between the two countries," predicted Santana, the Tijuana truck driver. Mexico airs concerns Mexico's government has expressed concern about the wall and National Guard proposals, saying they aren't the way to solve problems of border security and illegal migration north. "Most countries want to bring their people together and tear down physical, commercial and cultural barriers," presidential spokesman Ruben Aguilar said Thursday. "Anyone who proposes separating them is out of line. Walls are a sign of distrust, and that will never be the basis of a good friendship between two countries." The Senate measure includes provisions that would give some undocumented immigrants a path toward citizenship and allow more people to work temporarily in the United States. But Santana said he saw no advances in the sweeping reform package. "There will always be more people wanting to come," he said. "It will always be like this." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12860863/ -- Constitution of Mexico: FOREIGNERS may NOT, in any manner, involve themselves in the political affairs of the COUNTRY! The supreme kisser of hispanic butts, President Bush, and most of the US Senate should be on trial for treason. They have failed to protect our southern border and have pushed for legislation that would increase the flooding of America by third-world aliens. A problem is that the old "Silent Majority" is mostly a collection of lard-assed, feminized, PC'd, White males. Worthless. Arch http://www.newnation.com/index2.html New Nation News |
#10
posted to rec.arts.books,rec.aviation.military,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.boats
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Mexicans Vow to Keep Coming
wrote: Graphic Queen wrote: Those who want to come to the USA, in violation of our immigration laws, will continue to come, until and unless, we the American people, defeat their morale. As long as they hold out the hopes and dreams, of reaching the "land of milk and honey" or the "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow", then we will continue to face them. They come for opportunity, but face the reality of market saturation, hunger and suffering. There are not enough jobs, or resources to support them at this rate. We must also defeat the morale of the illegals already here, and motivate them to self-deport. We must cut off their supplies of water and food. We must deter their enablers who assist them, and the transporters who move them. We must stop the employers who provide them employment. Our governments have proved, in the past and present, that they can make immigration laws, as long as the lumberjacks can fell trees and the paper mills can make paper, but all the immigration laws written, on the by-products of all the dead trees, don't mean anything without enforcement. Our governments, from federal to local, have proven dysfunctional, in the enforcement of immigration laws. We must rise up and defend our Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic. We must carry the torch, and scythe, and enforce our immigration laws, so as to end this quagmire. We shall remember in November, and beyond, those traitors and tyrants, who have betrayed our trust, and our sovereignty. It is in our hands to remove the illegals from our nation, and to defeat the efforts of those who will try to violate our immigration laws. We must rise and repel the invaders, at the borders, and evict those aliens in our towns. You the people of the United States of America, have the power of citizenship and the duty and honor, under the US Constitution, and within the Bill of rights, to protect this nation, now, or forever allow it to be surrendered to the invading forces. What say you my fellow patriots? rise and fight--or-- surrender? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'It will always be like this' As Bush tries to stop migrants, Mexicans vow to continue illegal trips north NOGALES, Mexico - Mexicans say it will take more than three layers of fence and 6,000 National Guard troops to keep them out of the United States. As President Bush visited the stretch of Arizona desert Thursday that serves as a cactus-studded freeway for thousands of undocumented migrants, those preparing to make the perilous trip said they will find a way around almost any obstacle. "We'll go under it, we'll go over it, we'll go through the air, the sea or the earth, but they're never going to stop us from crossing," said Jesus Santana, a Tijuana truck driver who was caught trying to cross and deported. Increased security will likely only serve to make smuggling fees more expensive and drive immigrants deeper into debt, making them even more desperate to make it north. As a tired, bedraggled column of deportees filed across a Nogales border bridge Thursday - just as Bush was giving a speech on border security west of here - some migrants were already furiously dialing cell phones to contact immigrant smugglers for their next attempt. "Of course we'll cross again. We're just waiting for them to come and pick us up," said Javier Torres, 22, of Cuiliacan, Sinaloa. Just 100 yards away, vans of the kind used by smugglers waited under an underpass to pick up groups of deportees. The deportees were greeted on the Mexican side by Martin Doriane, who for the last four years has surveyed returning migrants for the Colegio de la Frontera Norte. Doraine says at least 95 percent of migrants caught and deported say they'll try again, in part because they've sold everything they own in Mexico to pay increasingly expensive and sophisticated smuggling efforts to overcome tightened border security. "They say, 'I had a roof and a frying pan in Mexico, but I sold both to come north and went into debt, so what do I have to return to?"' Doraine said. Seeking 'a different life' One of the deportees, Maria del Carmen Valadez, brought her 12-year-old son, Julio Cesar Castaneda, on the dangerous two-day trek through the desert. The boy hungrily ate a taco Doriane gave him as his mother acknowledged "it is a risk" to bring a child on such a dangerous trip. "I did it to give him a different life," said Valadez, of Fresnillo in Zacatecas in northern Mexico. She said she'll probably try to cross again, because in her hometown, "there's nothing but poverty." That sense of desperation - and determination - is everywhere. On Monday, a detained woman told agents she had left her 3-year-old son dead in the desert. The proposed 370 miles of triple-layer fencing, approved by the Senate Wednesday, as well as Bush's plan to send National Guard troops to play supporting roles in border enforcement, has raised tempers and tensions here. "Somebody is going to start shooting, and then there will be problems between the two countries," predicted Santana, the Tijuana truck driver. Mexico airs concerns Mexico's government has expressed concern about the wall and National Guard proposals, saying they aren't the way to solve problems of border security and illegal migration north. "Most countries want to bring their people together and tear down physical, commercial and cultural barriers," presidential spokesman Ruben Aguilar said Thursday. "Anyone who proposes separating them is out of line. Walls are a sign of distrust, and that will never be the basis of a good friendship between two countries." The Senate measure includes provisions that would give some undocumented immigrants a path toward citizenship and allow more people to work temporarily in the United States. But Santana said he saw no advances in the sweeping reform package. "There will always be more people wanting to come," he said. "It will always be like this." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12860863/ -- Constitution of Mexico: FOREIGNERS may NOT, in any manner, involve themselves in the political affairs of the COUNTRY! The supreme kisser of hispanic butts, President Bush, and most of the US Senate should be on trial for treason. They have failed to protect our southern border and have pushed for legislation that would increase the flooding of America by third-world aliens. A problem is that the old "Silent Majority" is mostly a collection of lard-assed, feminized, PC'd, White males. Worthless. Arch http://www.newnation.com/index2.html New Nation News |
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