beaufortnc wrote:
Hi,

I have a charter captain friend who told me once that there is a
loophole around the conventional "6-pack" CG License chartering
regulations.

He said something to the effect that if you have a contract that
specifies that the boat is being rented as a whole to the "guests",
that they are able to pick whoever they'd like to be the captain of
their "rented" vessel, whether that person is licensed or not.

So, in essence, the boat "rental" provides the income, and the
"captain" performs duties for free.

With this method, he was able to charter his boat with more than 6
guests, and without a captain's license.

Does anyone know the real story on this? Was he f.o.s.?
Probably, depending on the details. In addition to my comments below,
I seem to remember that a "bare boat charter" must not include the
owner or his representative. This sort of makes the described
"contract" bogus.

About 12 years ago the rules were eased up a little, allowing for
guests to share some expenses, bring lunch, etc. However, anything
that "smells" like making money is not allowed. The question that
must be asked is "Would the captain take these guests out even if they
were not contributing anything?" If the answer is "No," then they are
probably passengers for hire. If the answer is "yes", then they are
friendly guests who happen to be contributing a bit. If the
contribution is less than a share of the fuel cost, it probably isn't
a charter. If the Captain ends up with more money in his pocket then
he started with, it is a charter. However, the CG has a lot of local
discretion on a case by case basis.

The following is taken from:
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/nvic/7_94/n7-94.htm

The important parts are "contributed as a condition" and
"'Consideration' does not include a voluntary sharing of the actual
expenses of a voyage."

SEC. 506. PASSENGER FOR HIRE.

Section 2101 of title 46, United States Code, is amended by inserting
between paragraphs (21) and (22) a new paragraph (21a) to read as follows:

"(21a) 'passenger for hire' means a passenger for whom consideration
is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether
directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator,
agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.".

DESCRIPTION - The determination of what constitutes the carriage of a
"passenger for hire" must be made on a case by case basis. This
determination is dependent upon the actual operation of a vessel and
the flow of consideration as determined by the facts of each case. In
general, there needs to be some form of tangible consideration or
promise of performance being passed for a "passenger for hire"
situation to exist.

SEC. 507. CONSIDERATION.

Section 2101 of title 46, United States Code, is amended by inserting
between paragraphs (5) and (6) a new paragraph (5a) to read as follows:

"(5a) 'consideration' means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or
profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person,
or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual
expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel,
food, beverage, or other supplies.".

DESCRIPTION - Section 507 amends 46 U.S.C. 2101 by adding a definition
of the term "consideration." Although this term was used in the prior
definition of a "passenger," it was not previously defined by statute.
Generally, some tangible amount of worth exchanged for carriage on a
vessel such as payment, exchange of goods or a promise of performance
is required. "Consideration" does not include a voluntary sharing of
the actual expenses of a voyage. Additionally, employees or business
clients that have not contributed for their carriage, and are carried
for morale or entertainment purposes is not included as exchange of
consideration.

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
beaufortnc wrote:
Hi,

I have a charter captain friend who told me once that there is a
loophole around the conventional "6-pack" CG License chartering
regulations.

He said something to the effect that if you have a contract that
specifies that the boat is being rented as a whole to the "guests",
that they are able to pick whoever they'd like to be the captain of
their "rented" vessel, whether that person is licensed or not.

So, in essence, the boat "rental" provides the income, and the
"captain" performs duties for free.

With this method, he was able to charter his boat with more than 6
guests, and without a captain's license.

Does anyone know the real story on this? Was he f.o.s.?
Probably, depending on the details. In addition to my comments below, I
seem to remember that a "bare boat charter" must not include the owner or
his representative. This sort of makes the described "contract" bogus.

About 12 years ago the rules were eased up a little, allowing for guests
to share some expenses, bring lunch, etc. However, anything that "smells"
like making money is not allowed. The question that must be asked is
"Would the captain take these guests out even if they were not
contributing anything?" If the answer is "No," then they are probably
passengers for hire. If the answer is "yes", then they are friendly
guests who happen to be contributing a bit. If the contribution is less
than a share of the fuel cost, it probably isn't a charter. If the
Captain ends up with more money in his pocket then he started with, it is
a charter. However, the CG has a lot of local discretion on a case by
case basis.

Sir, the beer, sandwiches, cooler and ice were in the boat when we came back
from parking the car & trailer. Someone must've dropped them in the wrong
boat by mistake.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message

Sir, the beer, sandwiches, cooler and ice were in the boat when we came back
from parking the car & trailer. Someone must've dropped them in the wrong
boat by mistake.


"Yes, but 200 kegs seems a bit excessive."

"Jeff" wrote in message
news
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message Sir, the beer, sandwiches,
cooler and ice were in the boat when we came back from parking the car &
trailer. Someone must've dropped them in the wrong boat by mistake.
"Yes, but 200 kegs seems a bit excessive."

Not to me. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

You will **** off a chief if you call him/her "Sir.". Officer's are call "Sir". Officers
may outrank chiefs, but chiefs are better (and any officer who doesn't understand this
will have a short carreer).

You will **** off a chief if you bull**** him/her. There's NO better bull****ter
than a chief.


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ...
"Jeff" wrote in message . ..
beaufortnc wrote:
Hi,

I have a charter captain friend who told me once that there is a
loophole around the conventional "6-pack" CG License chartering
regulations.

He said something to the effect that if you have a contract that
specifies that the boat is being rented as a whole to the "guests",
that they are able to pick whoever they'd like to be the captain of
their "rented" vessel, whether that person is licensed or not.

So, in essence, the boat "rental" provides the income, and the
"captain" performs duties for free.

With this method, he was able to charter his boat with more than 6
guests, and without a captain's license.

Does anyone know the real story on this? Was he f.o.s.?
Probably, depending on the details. In addition to my comments below, I seem to remember that a "bare boat charter" must not
include the owner or his representative. This sort of makes the described "contract" bogus.

About 12 years ago the rules were eased up a little, allowing for guests to share some expenses, bring lunch, etc. However,
anything that "smells" like making money is not allowed. The question that must be asked is "Would the captain take these guests
out even if they were not contributing anything?" If the answer is "No," then they are probably passengers for hire. If the
answer is "yes", then they are friendly guests who happen to be contributing a bit. If the contribution is less than a share of
the fuel cost, it probably isn't a charter. If the Captain ends up with more money in his pocket then he started with, it is a
charter. However, the CG has a lot of local discretion on a case by case basis.

Sir, the beer, sandwiches, cooler and ice were in the boat when we came back from parking the car & trailer. Someone must've
dropped them in the wrong boat by mistake.

"Chuck Tribolet" wrote in message
...

You will **** off a chief if you bull**** him/her. There's NO better
bull****ter
than a chief.

I've seen such bull**** attempted, when the CG cited me for rules they
misinterpreted. It didn't work. They got spanked.