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What's the deal with Bayliner?
I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... how did they get their dubious reputation? |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
|
What's the deal with Bayliner?
wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... how did they get their dubious reputation? I think most US made boats have ****ty fit and finish. I owned a Wellcraft that was falling apart from day one. Bayliners actually got their act together because of all the crap they were catching for their crappy quality. If there was only more competition from foreign boat manufacturers! maybe some day. |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
What would all you guy rate as the best manufacturer for quality and
reliability Dan J.S. wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... how did they get their dubious reputation? I think most US made boats have ****ty fit and finish. I owned a Wellcraft that was falling apart from day one. Bayliners actually got their act together because of all the crap they were catching for their crappy quality. If there was only more competition from foreign boat manufacturers! maybe some day. |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
Robk1013 wrote:
What would all you guy rate as the best manufacturer for quality and reliability Dan J.S. wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... how did they get their dubious reputation? I think most US made boats have ****ty fit and finish. I owned a Wellcraft that was falling apart from day one. Bayliners actually got their act together because of all the crap they were catching for their crappy quality. If there was only more competition from foreign boat manufacturers! maybe some day. Crownline is a mid price range boat that consistently rates in the top end in all consumer reviews. Anyone who was in the market for a a runabout or a maxi cruiser (bubble boat) really should check out Crownline. There are a number of people who own them on our dock and everyone who owns one LOVES them. It reminds me of Honda owners in the 80's and 90's. They are rabid when describing how great their boat is. -- Reggie That's my story and I am sticking to it! |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
"Robk1013" wrote in message
oups.com... What would all you guy rate as the best manufacturer for quality and reliability You'll probably get lots of "bests", since few people have ever owned one of every brand. Over the past few years, I've spent time on lots of Lund boats of various sizes & shapes, and their fit & finish are quite remarkable. My only other direct experience goes back too many years to be useful, although my dad's 32' Luhrs (circa 1967) is still in use by a family friend, and he's delighted with it. |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
Harry Krause wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote: Robk1013 wrote: What would all you guy rate as the best manufacturer for quality and reliability Dan J.S. wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... how did they get their dubious reputation? I think most US made boats have ****ty fit and finish. I owned a Wellcraft that was falling apart from day one. Bayliners actually got their act together because of all the crap they were catching for their crappy quality. If there was only more competition from foreign boat manufacturers! maybe some day. Crownline is a mid price range boat that consistently rates in the top end in all consumer reviews. Anyone who was in the market for a a runabout or a maxi cruiser (bubble boat) really should check out Crownline. There are a number of people who own them on our dock and everyone who owns one LOVES them. It reminds me of Honda owners in the 80's and 90's. They are rabid when describing how great their boat is. "There are a number of people who own them on our dock..." You have a dock in your bathtub, Reggie? Harry, Have you noticed I really am not interested in trading barbs with you? This is another On topic thread, that hopefully can can generate some boating discussion without generating into a personal battle between regulars. -- Reggie That's my story and I am sticking to it! |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
"basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? A quote from my mechanic, referring to my 1992 Taurus: "What kind of moron engineer puts a bare fusible link under the motor, where it'll be bathed in water & road salt constantly?" Pinto & Mustang may not have hurt forever, but other sins certainly hang around for a long time. |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! (The best built in America or Europe for that matter!) -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
basskisser wrote:
JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? Bassy, Bayliner quality problems lasted for at least 10 yrs, and covered most (maybe all) of their product line. The average person buys a car and expect to keep it for 3 to 5 years. So When someone buys a boat, they expect to own the boat for for substantially longer period of time, so when it started to show it's age after a year or two, and have problems the owners unloaded the boat. They immediately became a disgruntled former owner with a long memory, and the person who purchased the boat became a new disgruntled owner, so the Bayliner Bashers really did have a life of it's own. Even though who had not owned a Bayliner had seen some of the POS at the Boat Brokers. Under powered, seats falling aparts, windows leaking bad. You didn't have to get on the boat to see how bad the boat was, anyone walking the docks would walk away with a bad feeling about Bayliner. Bayliner is considered a quality value boat today, but it looks to me that they really put together a nice boat. It is not a fishing battle wagon for fishing the canyons, but it is not supposed to be. I can't remember the last time I heard someone talking about it being a POS. If you notice, while some people have tried to get a Bayliner Bashing thread going in rec.boats, it really didn't have any legs. It took them a long time to shake off their reputation, but it looks like it is behind them. I really think part of the reason the threads lasted so long in the past is someone would try to "oversell" the quality of Bayliner, instead of accepting Bayliner's marketing niche. -- Reggie That's my story and I am sticking to it! |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
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What's the deal with Bayliner?
Harry Krause wrote:
JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! (The best built in America or Europe for that matter!) -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John I gave up golf 30-odd years ago, after playing one game on the course at the Boca Raton Club. Part of a foursome, I played with rented clubs, and shot a 90. When we got back to the clubhouse, I talked to the pro about playing golf and he advised me to give it up right there and then, because, he said, it would take me 10 years to duplicate my beginner's luck. My only previous golf experience was on chip and putt courses. Since then, I have played miniature golf about a dozen times. At work the office used to have a 'golf day' once a year. It was an easy choice for me... stay at my desk on a beautiful day, or go out to a nice course to walk around and whack some balls. After a few hours of chasing my balls all over the rough stuff, begging co-workers for some and then picking up any I saw laying around, I decided there were better things to do on a hot sunny afternoon. |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value. |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
Don White wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! (The best built in America or Europe for that matter!) -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John I gave up golf 30-odd years ago, after playing one game on the course at the Boca Raton Club. Part of a foursome, I played with rented clubs, and shot a 90. When we got back to the clubhouse, I talked to the pro about playing golf and he advised me to give it up right there and then, because, he said, it would take me 10 years to duplicate my beginner's luck. My only previous golf experience was on chip and putt courses. Since then, I have played miniature golf about a dozen times. At work the office used to have a 'golf day' once a year. It was an easy choice for me... stay at my desk on a beautiful day, or go out to a nice course to walk around and whack some balls. After a few hours of chasing my balls all over the rough stuff, begging co-workers for some and then picking up any I saw laying around, I decided there were better things to do on a hot sunny afternoon. Chasing your balls? That's just open fodder!! |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:56:28 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! (The best built in America or Europe for that matter!) -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John I gave up golf 30-odd years ago, after playing one game on the course at the Boca Raton Club. Part of a foursome, I played with rented clubs, and shot a 90. When we got back to the clubhouse, I talked to the pro about playing golf and he advised me to give it up right there and then, because, he said, it would take me 10 years to duplicate my beginner's luck. My only previous golf experience was on chip and putt courses. Since then, I have played miniature golf about a dozen times. With a score like that on your first time out, you should have turned pro. You'd have made more money than you could handle. Or...were you just playing nine holes? -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:30:38 GMT, Don White wrote:
Harry Krause wrote: JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! (The best built in America or Europe for that matter!) -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John I gave up golf 30-odd years ago, after playing one game on the course at the Boca Raton Club. Part of a foursome, I played with rented clubs, and shot a 90. When we got back to the clubhouse, I talked to the pro about playing golf and he advised me to give it up right there and then, because, he said, it would take me 10 years to duplicate my beginner's luck. My only previous golf experience was on chip and putt courses. Since then, I have played miniature golf about a dozen times. At work the office used to have a 'golf day' once a year. It was an easy choice for me... stay at my desk on a beautiful day, or go out to a nice course to walk around and whack some balls. After a few hours of chasing my balls all over the rough stuff, begging co-workers for some and then picking up any I saw laying around, I decided there were better things to do on a hot sunny afternoon. Almost the same thing happened to me about 35 years ago. The Engineer Officers at Fort Benning would have an annual get-together for golf. I played about five times, and the most enjoyable thing to do was bang a ball off the huge water tank in the middle of the course! Becoming able to hit the ball, albeit only about half the time, has changed my attitude. Also, my doctor says I need exercise. Here I live five minutes from a nice county course where, as a senior and county resident, I can play 18 holes for $16.53. Not a bad deal! -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:43:00 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote: basskisser wrote: JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? Bassy, Bayliner quality problems lasted for at least 10 yrs, and covered most (maybe all) of their product line. The average person buys a car and expect to keep it for 3 to 5 years. So When someone buys a boat, they expect to own the boat for for substantially longer period of time, so when it started to show it's age after a year or two, and have problems the owners unloaded the boat. They immediately became a disgruntled former owner with a long memory, and the person who purchased the boat became a new disgruntled owner, so the Bayliner Bashers really did have a life of it's own. Even though who had not owned a Bayliner had seen some of the POS at the Boat Brokers. Under powered, seats falling aparts, windows leaking bad. You didn't have to get on the boat to see how bad the boat was, anyone walking the docks would walk away with a bad feeling about Bayliner. Bayliner is considered a quality value boat today, but it looks to me that they really put together a nice boat. It is not a fishing battle wagon for fishing the canyons, but it is not supposed to be. I can't remember the last time I heard someone talking about it being a POS. If you notice, while some people have tried to get a Bayliner Bashing thread going in rec.boats, it really didn't have any legs. It took them a long time to shake off their reputation, but it looks like it is behind them. I really think part of the reason the threads lasted so long in the past is someone would try to "oversell" the quality of Bayliner, instead of accepting Bayliner's marketing niche. I agree with what you said. I think much of the Bayliner Bashing of the past was due to a famous Bayliner owner who was a participant in the group. -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
"basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value. I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring "Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up. Eisboch |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring "Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up. Eisboch If you haven't seen them, goto: http://www.askdrz.com/ You can skip the intro if you want, then click on the commercials. I get a big kick out of the soccer ball shot, the ride in the Charger and the Ram/Durango ones. Eisboch |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:46:02 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value. I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring "Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up. Eisboch I think a lot of Europeans are concerned that a negative affect may be had on Mercedes. -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
"Eisboch" wrote in message
... "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value. I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring "Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up. Eisboch That could be true, as long as the company ferrets out the scum who designed the motors for the minivans, and has them executed before they do any more damage. Cylinder to piston tolerances were measured in feet, a fact easily noticed by simply driving behind some of these vans. |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
Alotta Fagina wrote: You wrote: I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. There's at the bottom of the lake/river/ocean. I know thats also an old joke about them. "Why do you think they call them *Bay-Liner?* |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
Also when Leo Fender sold Fender Guitars out to CBS broadcasting..
thank goodness they recovered from that debacle when sold to private investors in the late 80's now their on top again.... basskisser wrote: JimH wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
Eisboch wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value. I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring "Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up. Eisboch Yeah, I like those, too. And my single neighbor has a Jaguar, and I love asking him about his Ford, seeing how they own Jag! |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
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What's the deal with Bayliner?
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:46:02 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring "Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up. Eisboch I think a lot of Europeans are concerned that a negative affect may be had on Mercedes. There's a lot of flack going on, mainly among advertising groups, that think the whole campaign is stupid and may hurt Mercedes. Personally, I think it's sour grapes and a bit of resentment that they didn't come up with something as good. They also are going to introduce the "Smart" car in the US, reportedly in 2007. And, just for fun, they are going to build a retro version of the Dodge Challenger as a mid 2008 model. The ads are very careful not to mention Mercedes and there are no direct references to Mercedes. Also ... in Europe ... a Mercedes is not the glamorous car that it is here in the US, except for some of the performance AGM models like the E55 and the new E66. (They had to come out with something to compete with the BMW M5 and M6, you know) :-) We have a Dodge Sprinter RV, which is built by Mercedes, has a little 5 cylinder Mercedes diesel and gets over 20 mpg. It replaces the old Ram 1500, 2500 and 3500 van series and is based on a design that has been used in Europe as a work/cargo van for many years. I am very impressed with it, performance and quality-wise. If Ford and Chevy don't watch out, DaimlerChrysler is going to eat their lunch in the coming years. Eisboch |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:33:46 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:46:02 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring "Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up. Eisboch I think a lot of Europeans are concerned that a negative affect may be had on Mercedes. There's a lot of flack going on, mainly among advertising groups, that think the whole campaign is stupid and may hurt Mercedes. Personally, I think it's sour grapes and a bit of resentment that they didn't come up with something as good. They also are going to introduce the "Smart" car in the US, reportedly in 2007. And, just for fun, they are going to build a retro version of the Dodge Challenger as a mid 2008 model. The ads are very careful not to mention Mercedes and there are no direct references to Mercedes. Also ... in Europe ... a Mercedes is not the glamorous car that it is here in the US, except for some of the performance AGM models like the E55 and the new E66. (They had to come out with something to compete with the BMW M5 and M6, you know) :-) We have a Dodge Sprinter RV, which is built by Mercedes, has a little 5 cylinder Mercedes diesel and gets over 20 mpg. It replaces the old Ram 1500, 2500 and 3500 van series and is based on a design that has been used in Europe as a work/cargo van for many years. I am very impressed with it, performance and quality-wise. If Ford and Chevy don't watch out, DaimlerChrysler is going to eat their lunch in the coming years. Eisboch Tell me more about the Dodge Sprinter. I've been thinking of a small RV for when the wife retires next year. Is it pretty liveable for three or four week trips? Mileage? Maintenance problems (the old Dodge bugaboo)? -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
I love golf...( I haven't played for 20 years but I love it) if it
wasn't for golf think how many more idiots would be on the water......... basskisser wrote: Don White wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JimH wrote: wrote in message glegroups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! (The best built in America or Europe for that matter!) -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John I gave up golf 30-odd years ago, after playing one game on the course at the Boca Raton Club. Part of a foursome, I played with rented clubs, and shot a 90. When we got back to the clubhouse, I talked to the pro about playing golf and he advised me to give it up right there and then, because, he said, it would take me 10 years to duplicate my beginner's luck. My only previous golf experience was on chip and putt courses. Since then, I have played miniature golf about a dozen times. At work the office used to have a 'golf day' once a year. It was an easy choice for me... stay at my desk on a beautiful day, or go out to a nice course to walk around and whack some balls. After a few hours of chasing my balls all over the rough stuff, begging co-workers for some and then picking up any I saw laying around, I decided there were better things to do on a hot sunny afternoon. Chasing your balls? That's just open fodder!! |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
"Ed" wrote in message . .. I love golf...( I haven't played for 20 years but I love it) Same here. For me it has been over 25 years, although I did play golf while vacationing at Lake Chautauqua a dozen or so years ago (and had a great game). .....if it wasn't for golf think how many more idiots would be on the water......... Could you imagine these guys on the water? http://tinyurl.com/p5gwb But then again, I think I did see them on the water last week. ;-) |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
(JoeSpareBedroom)wrote
That could be true, as long as the company ferrets out the scum who designed the motors for the minivans, and has them executed before they do any more damage. Cylinder to piston tolerances were measured in feet, a fact easily noticed by simply driving behind some of these vans. I wish they had executed them, but it appears they went to work for GM instead. The gasser Vortec V8 in my Silverado sound like a diesel. www.pistonslap.com tells the story. UD |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:22:58 -0400, Ed wrote:
I love golf...( I haven't played for 20 years but I love it) if it wasn't for golf think how many more idiots would be on the water......... AMEN! -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:33:46 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: Tell me more about the Dodge Sprinter. I've been thinking of a small RV for when the wife retires next year. Is it pretty liveable for three or four week trips? Mileage? Maintenance problems (the old Dodge bugaboo)? Well, first of all, it's only "badged" as a Dodge. Mercedes makes them for themselves, Dodge and Freightliner. It's small as RV's go, but has all the basics ... refrig, microwave, stovetop (propane), bathroom, shower, etc. It even has a small, 2.5kw propane fueled generator. Ours is set up with a power couch that folds out and creates either one, almost kingsize bed or two twins. Driving it is a breeze ... Mrs.E. loves driving it and has no problems. The little diesel isn't a powerhouse (154 hp), but has no problem accelerating and holding 70-75 mph uphill. It's probably the quietest diesel I've ever heard - you really can't tell it's a diesel. The manufacturer claims 20-22 mpg - I've never checked, but I suspect it's in that neighborhood. As far as living in it for three or four weeks at a time ... I couldn't, because I am not into camping. For me it's ok for a weekend trip, but after that it's hotel time or home. For those that like camping, it might be ok because they typically spend most of the time outside and the RV is a place to sleep, store food and use the head. It does have an awning, and all that. Finally ... many RV builders are building units on the Sprinter, Mercedes and Freightliner chassis. Like boats, the quality, fit/finish and type of components (TV, microwave, etc.) vary from builder to builder as do the prices. Best to look at several. We've had several RVs ranging from a 37 foot Class A motorhome, a 37 foot fifth wheel trailer and a smaller Class C camper. For us, the Sprinter does everything the others did, just in a smaller way and is much, much more relaxing to drive. Eisboch |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
""UglyDan®©T"" wrote in message ... (JoeSpareBedroom)wrote That could be true, as long as the company ferrets out the scum who designed the motors for the minivans, and has them executed before they do any more damage. Cylinder to piston tolerances were measured in feet, a fact easily noticed by simply driving behind some of these vans. I wish they had executed them, but it appears they went to work for GM instead. The gasser Vortec V8 in my Silverado sound like a diesel. www.pistonslap.com tells the story. UD I got a chuckle out of this quote from your link: "...a knocking engine could lower the value of a vehicle by $4,000 to $6,000 at trade-in" Charlie Vogelheim, executive editor for Kelley Blue Book Detroit Free Press The knocking in my diesel powered truck will *increase* it's trade-in value by 4k-6k. Eisboch |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:44:23 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:33:46 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: Tell me more about the Dodge Sprinter. I've been thinking of a small RV for when the wife retires next year. Is it pretty liveable for three or four week trips? Mileage? Maintenance problems (the old Dodge bugaboo)? Well, first of all, it's only "badged" as a Dodge. Mercedes makes them for themselves, Dodge and Freightliner. It's small as RV's go, but has all the basics ... refrig, microwave, stovetop (propane), bathroom, shower, etc. It even has a small, 2.5kw propane fueled generator. Ours is set up with a power couch that folds out and creates either one, almost kingsize bed or two twins. Driving it is a breeze ... Mrs.E. loves driving it and has no problems. The little diesel isn't a powerhouse (154 hp), but has no problem accelerating and holding 70-75 mph uphill. It's probably the quietest diesel I've ever heard - you really can't tell it's a diesel. The manufacturer claims 20-22 mpg - I've never checked, but I suspect it's in that neighborhood. As far as living in it for three or four weeks at a time ... I couldn't, because I am not into camping. For me it's ok for a weekend trip, but after that it's hotel time or home. For those that like camping, it might be ok because they typically spend most of the time outside and the RV is a place to sleep, store food and use the head. It does have an awning, and all that. Finally ... many RV builders are building units on the Sprinter, Mercedes and Freightliner chassis. Like boats, the quality, fit/finish and type of components (TV, microwave, etc.) vary from builder to builder as do the prices. Best to look at several. We've had several RVs ranging from a 37 foot Class A motorhome, a 37 foot fifth wheel trailer and a smaller Class C camper. For us, the Sprinter does everything the others did, just in a smaller way and is much, much more relaxing to drive. Eisboch I looked at RoadTrek's version a while back. Looked nice. Who converted yours? Winnebago makes a conversion that looks very nice also. http://www.winnebagoind.com/products/winnebago/view/ -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
"JohnH" wrote in message ... I looked at RoadTrek's version a while back. Looked nice. Who converted yours? Winnebago makes a conversion that looks very nice also. http://www.winnebagoind.com/products/winnebago/view/ The Winnebago is nice, but a heavier conversion, leaving less carrying capacity. It's also technically a class C being bigger and wider. Ours is a Pleasure-Way (made in Canada). Class B. Click on Dodge Plateau at: http://www.pleasureway.com/ Eisboch |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
basskisser wrote:
JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JimH wrote: wrote in message egroups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value. Nephew just bought a 2005 Mustang white convertible. Wonder if he'd loan it to me so I can cruise the local beaches. |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:30:38 GMT, Don White wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: JimH wrote: wrote in message glegroups.com... I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of them. But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in business? Surely , I would think, they have to make something good..... They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range. how did they get their dubious reputation? From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved substantially since then. Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be around and they most likely have never been on one recently. Jim Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for long. Harley when AMF took them over? You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! (The best built in America or Europe for that matter!) -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John I gave up golf 30-odd years ago, after playing one game on the course at the Boca Raton Club. Part of a foursome, I played with rented clubs, and shot a 90. When we got back to the clubhouse, I talked to the pro about playing golf and he advised me to give it up right there and then, because, he said, it would take me 10 years to duplicate my beginner's luck. My only previous golf experience was on chip and putt courses. Since then, I have played miniature golf about a dozen times. At work the office used to have a 'golf day' once a year. It was an easy choice for me... stay at my desk on a beautiful day, or go out to a nice course to walk around and whack some balls. After a few hours of chasing my balls all over the rough stuff, begging co-workers for some and then picking up any I saw laying around, I decided there were better things to do on a hot sunny afternoon. Almost the same thing happened to me about 35 years ago. The Engineer Officers at Fort Benning would have an annual get-together for golf. I played about five times, and the most enjoyable thing to do was bang a ball off the huge water tank in the middle of the course! Becoming able to hit the ball, albeit only about half the time, has changed my attitude. Also, my doctor says I need exercise. Here I live five minutes from a nice county course where, as a senior and county resident, I can play 18 holes for $16.53. Not a bad deal! -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John $16.53?? I could afford that. I should check the local clubs to see if they have similar deals. |
What's the deal with Bayliner?
Eisboch wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... JohnH wrote: On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT! Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value. I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring "Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up. Eisboch Now if they could just do something about their automatic transmissions in the mini-van................ |
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