E-Tec problems series 2
 

The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then placarded
OMC.

The reasons for holding my opinions of what we say are E-Tecs design &
other problems are many, too many for one short NG post, they fall into
numerous categories any one of which, on it's own, is reason enough to
stay well away from them.

(i) The basic concept of running internal combustion engines with
lean mixtures at power, as opposed to overrun (doesn't happen in
boats:-)),idle or high speed very light throttle cruise (again doesn't
happen in boats).

(ii) The Direct Fuel Injection (DFI)into the combustion chamber (DFI)

(iii) The fuel injector nozzle.

(iv) The fuel injector

(v) The oiling system

(vi) The ignition system.

(vii) The engine displacements.

(viii) The latest version changes.

(ix) The "potential" for union labour to be used to build them.

(x) The "potential" way the manufacture is funded

(xi) The dealers/suppliers involved & the way/amounts they get paid

(xii) The marketing claims

(xiii) The warranty.

(xiv) Common sense.

I'll make a series of posts dealing with each category & if
needs be sub category. Needless to say, similarly I tried to warn you
through this NG about our "opinions" that Ficht would fail, "before" it
had become the disaster it did.

I was viciously & personally attached in this NG by those mostly with a
vested interest in selling/supporting known defective Ficht engines to
consumers. The dealers of course, the union thugs who had the undeclared
invested interest in the funding of OMC & a gaggle of sad simpletons
who, despite ample warnings in this NG, had fallen into buying one &
could only try to deny the obvious to save some value to their boats &
pride to there ego. Alas all sunk along with OMC when it fetched up on
Ficht reef. Save one true fool who went the next step & just kept
claiming he had bought another one every time the subject came up, which
would make him the most stupid person ever into rec.boats, a seriously
sad thing given some of the simpletons we've had & still have here over
the years:-) It's very possible he's just making it up about
buying more of them because if he had, I doubt his brain stem would even
support cardiac functions & remember a heart continues to beat even
outside the body.

Before we go onto series 2 I better thank all those who responded to
series 1, thanks. I note there were no technical objections raised that
warrant my attention & I thank Del for his usual attention to detail
on running engines lean while at power.

I have to say it was a stunning display of the monumental idiot bullies
who dominate this NG, seriously?? are you all that stupid??? is it even
possible??? I mean sure the uneducated Krause & loony Tom no problems
but you too Dick??? I mean you who loves to brag about being able to
operate a simple machine like a plane?? Bet you were scared if a wing
merely touched an uncompressably cloud of water vapour you'd never see
your money again:-) Oh well I guess it's true you can give a man money
but you can't give him brains, nor stop him being a sad lonely git
either it seems.

Special thanks again to Del as ever & as always Del when you need to say
something you do & I get worried you'll ping me as & when you should, I
rely upon it as I should:-) I know it's coming & hope I take it OK, I'll
try:-)

So the second subject is Direct Fuel into the combustion chamber
Injection DFI & I say:

Firstly there are a few of the big engine makers who are dabbling in DFI
Mitsubishi, Merc, Toyota etc but only two 2 strokes & only two OB's
(before the usual rabble of NG simpletons get their knickers in a knot
Optimax is not & never has been DFI, the fuel is injected into an
"additional" inlet manifold & mixed with compressed air "before" it's
injected into the combustion chamber.)

There has not been any great uptake in the use of DFI by any of the
proper engine manufacturers because having the fuel injector itself
inside the combustion chamber gives a complete new set of problems;
Heat,
Varying pressure/temps
Carbon & other byproduct contamination,
Very high injection pressures if any real vapourisation is to be had &
contaminants to be kept off the nozzle itself.
There are few real advantages to be had over traditional port injection.

Save E-Tec; all the DFI proponents use massively high injection
pressures compared to "normal" port injection systems i.e. the Yamaha
800psi which when dealing with petrol is a huge ask.

Time, is a real issue, it takes time for fuel to vapourise, in a normal
4 stroke with port injection the time is available (as it is with
Optimax) but in a DFI the only time available is the compression stroke
after all valving has shut.

In a crankcase transferred 2 stroke the problem is even worse because
the "valves" (ports) are not all covered till the piston is long past BDC.

Another base thing to keep in mind is that the proper engine builders
have tinkered with DFI so they can run lean mixtures only at idle,
overrun & high speed light throttle cruise, when an engine can be leaned
with minimal risk of excessive chamber heat buildup. Even port injection
engines do this defacto particularly at high revs low load, by
recirculating exhaust gas direct back into the engine, which "dilutes" &
cools the charge.

Apart from trying to run a lean mixture by injecting the fuel near the
plug, DFI has no advantage at all & a whole new set of problems.

The latest Toyota material on the subject has a twin injection system,
DFI when required & normal port injection the rest of the time, again
the extra complexity & consumer reliability risks are still not worth
the trouble.

OK so that's the basic issues with DFI in general as I see it.

With a little luck this time the idiots will stay out of the thread???
Their only collective chance of not look even more stupid (not possible)
is to just shut the up:-)

K

Of course the E-Tec series will need to also include a Krause lie or a
loony Tom paste:-) Although I don't think Tom will ever surpass his
series 1 posts on gases:-) He must just bully BS his way through life
how sad.

I expect the abuse from the simpletons & they never disappoint:-)
however John H chipped me for the Krause lie?? It's really sad that John
has rolled over to this low life lying union bully, so just to remind
him who he's kissing up to & how sad & desperately lonely he must be to
allow it. I guess also it's time to wonder why bullying is a problem in
the armed forces & school systems??? when the teachers don't even have
the backbone to stand up for themselves??? Anyone can appease bullies
then deceive themselves into thinking they have a friend John, but
you've gotten into bed with the worst enemy known to all endeavours, a
lying union thug. I better post some of the lies Krause has told this NG
about you personally, I stress as always Krause is lying & any of us who
know & respect John H in this NG will confirm this is just more of the
Krause lies;

You must have run out of high school babysitting jobs

I doubt he's read the classic comics versions of much of anything.

Apparently John has problems being a john. Go figure.

Well, John, since you have no idea or knowledge over the rather peculiar
news "gatherer" I use some days, your opinion is...worthless.

But since your entire world is binary, black or white, I suppose you are
blind to the grey.

That's what happens when you waste your life in the military.

Not after you've wasted your life in the Army.

Gee, John...did you just read about this in Army Times (mustered-out
edition)?

Does John actually teach? I know he's mentioned he subs in the
Alexandria school system, but my recollection is that he has posted that
he mainly babysits high school kids, and doesn't teach. Or was it that
he tries to teach some math classes if he is assigned one, but doesn't
try to teach if he is assigned to a non-math class.

I'm not sure anything about John passes the WGAS test.

Yeah. I'd toss John to the sharks. He seems to have fewer and fewer
redeeming qualities.

John, after all, is a retired military
puke, and the only people in the country who take military pukes
seriously are...other military pukes.

Simpleton.

You really have turned yourself into a lying asshole, John.

As for the rest of Herring's diatribe, he's just being his disingenuous
self. Although he's gotten nastier and nastier the last few weeks. I
think his real asshole personality is emerging, the same one I picked up
on at the marina.

John spent his career in the military and is used to more bull****.

John needs a tad of reprogramming.

It's hard to have respect for an organization that had you in it long
enough for a retirement.

Isn't that why you joined the military? Free health care, free college,
free prescriptions, subsidized housing...such a deal...was it good for you?

Indeed. Probably too complex for John, even though it is the simplest of
newsreaders to use.

John is absolutely clueless about what you are discussing or about the
b.s. factor in military PR.

Drinking heavily again, John?

Whooosh...right over your head, again, John. But, then, you have no
marketable skills, either...

Well, John, some of us have to be open-minded and bright, like me, and
others of us have to be close-minded and dull, like you.

I suppose we have to cut John Herring some slack...he did spend most of
his adult life in the military, where thinking is not encouraged.

Once again, John, you're not worth more than a one-liner as a response.
Go play with your good conduct medal. Did you also get one for attendance?

Naw. John prefers chickenhawk with his fries.

Which just proves what a sleaze you are, because if you did vote for
Sharpton, you voted in the Democratic primary, and since you are a
Republican, you cast your vote as a would-be spoiler.

Do you ever have anything other than simple-minded thoughts, John?

Stupid? You mean like the 12 or so posts you just vomited up here, John?

Only a low-life right-wing failure like you would think so, John

You probably haven't read either book, either, or many other books, not
for a long time, if ever.

John has limited skills. That's why he spent his adult life in the
military.

No wonder you are so ****y.

But Bush's failures matter not to Herring and other flat-line
Republicans like him. They'll vote for Bush not matter what, utter foolw
that they are.

Yeah, reich, er, right. What a surprise...John the Wingnut voting
Republican...again.

Searching contrainer ships is a lot different from carving away at the
Constitutional rights of citizens, but I wouldn't expect a d.f. like you
to appreciate the difference.

Coulter? Sheesh. You really are a bottom feeder.

Here you go, dicquehead:

John H. in person sort of looks like he is in the mid stages of AIDs.
Too thin, large splotches on his skin, hair falling out...

Did you get an attendance award, Herring?

John and his ilk are simple-minded konservatives, cannot think
abstractly, and see issues only in black or white terms. John is an
especially pathetic konservative, as he spent most of his adult life as
a federal employee sucking on the taxpayers' teat, and now works as a
teacher in the public school system, thus continuing his sucking on the
taxpayers' teat. You would think a konservative like John would disdain
a paycheck from the taxpayers. But that would require him to be able to
think in the abstract, and such thinking is not allowed those in the
military.

Au contraire...I believe teaching to be among the most honorable
professions, and always have. But you're not a teacher, John...you are a
babysitter.

More bull**** from you, John? I have the greatest respect for public
school teachers, who work long hours under difficult conditions for, at
best, ordinary pay and benefits. You're not a real teacher; you're a
substitute teacher who has admitted more than once that on many of your
assignments, you don't teach at all, or even try to teach. You do
nothing more than babysit. You obviously missed the irony in my post;
the insult was aimed at you, not the teaching profession. You are a
self-proclaimed conservative and yet, for your living most of your life,
you have drawn your pay from the taxpayers, and thumbed your nose at
your job responsibilities.

If I lived in your town and were a whining slimeball like you, I'd
complain about you in a way that matters. But I'm not pondscum like you
are, and I'd never ever try to cause anyone job problems because of
their newsgroup political statements or leanings.

You're just living (barely) proof of how low your end of the political
spectrum has sunk.

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in
order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then placarded
OMC.

The reasons for holding my opinions of what we say are E-Tecs design &
other problems are many, too many for one short NG post, they fall into
numerous categories any one of which, on it's own, is reason enough to
stay well away from them.

(i) The basic concept of running internal combustion engines with lean
mixtures at power, as opposed to overrun (doesn't happen in boats:-)),idle
or high speed very light throttle cruise (again doesn't happen in boats).

(ii) The Direct Fuel Injection (DFI)into the combustion chamber (DFI)

(iii) The fuel injector nozzle.

(iv) The fuel injector

(v) The oiling system

(vi) The ignition system.

(vii) The engine displacements.

(viii) The latest version changes.

(ix) The "potential" for union labour to be used to build them.

(x) The "potential" way the manufacture is funded

(xi) The dealers/suppliers involved & the way/amounts they get paid

(xii) The marketing claims

(xiii) The warranty.

(xiv) Common sense.

I'll make a series of posts dealing with each category & if
needs be sub category. Needless to say, similarly I tried to warn you
through this NG about our "opinions" that Ficht would fail, "before" it
had become the disaster it did.

I was viciously & personally attached in this NG by those mostly with a
vested interest in selling/supporting known defective Ficht engines to
consumers. The dealers of course, the union thugs who had the undeclared
invested interest in the funding of OMC & a gaggle of sad simpletons who,
despite ample warnings in this NG, had fallen into buying one & could only
try to deny the obvious to save some value to their boats & pride to there
ego. Alas all sunk along with OMC when it fetched up on Ficht reef. Save
one true fool who went the next step & just kept claiming he had bought
another one every time the subject came up, which would make him the most
stupid person ever into rec.boats, a seriously sad thing given some of the
simpletons we've had & still have here over the years:-) It's very
possible he's just making it up about
buying more of them because if he had, I doubt his brain stem would even
support cardiac functions & remember a heart continues to beat even
outside the body.

Before we go onto series 2 I better thank all those who responded to
series 1, thanks. I note there were no technical objections raised that
warrant my attention & I thank Del for his usual attention to detail on
running engines lean while at power.

I have to say it was a stunning display of the monumental idiot bullies
who dominate this NG, seriously?? are you all that stupid??? is it even
possible??? I mean sure the uneducated Krause & loony Tom no problems but
you too Dick??? I mean you who loves to brag about being able to operate a
simple machine like a plane?? Bet you were scared if a wing merely touched
an uncompressably cloud of water vapour you'd never see your money
again:-) Oh well I guess it's true you can give a man money but you can't
give him brains, nor stop him being a sad lonely git either it seems.

Special thanks again to Del as ever & as always Del when you need to say
something you do & I get worried you'll ping me as & when you should, I
rely upon it as I should:-) I know it's coming & hope I take it OK, I'll
try:-)

So the second subject is Direct Fuel into the combustion chamber Injection
DFI & I say:

Firstly there are a few of the big engine makers who are dabbling in DFI
Mitsubishi, Merc, Toyota etc but only two 2 strokes & only two OB's
(before the usual rabble of NG simpletons get their knickers in a knot
Optimax is not & never has been DFI, the fuel is injected into an
"additional" inlet manifold & mixed with compressed air "before" it's
injected into the combustion chamber.)

There has not been any great uptake in the use of DFI by any of the proper
engine manufacturers because having the fuel injector itself inside the
combustion chamber gives a complete new set of problems;
Heat,
Varying pressure/temps
Carbon & other byproduct contamination,
Very high injection pressures if any real vapourisation is to be had &
contaminants to be kept off the nozzle itself.
There are few real advantages to be had over traditional port injection.

Save E-Tec; all the DFI proponents use massively high injection pressures
compared to "normal" port injection systems i.e. the Yamaha
800psi which when dealing with petrol is a huge ask.

Time, is a real issue, it takes time for fuel to vapourise, in a normal 4
stroke with port injection the time is available (as it is with Optimax)
but in a DFI the only time available is the compression stroke after all
valving has shut.

In a crankcase transferred 2 stroke the problem is even worse because the
"valves" (ports) are not all covered till the piston is long past BDC.

Another base thing to keep in mind is that the proper engine builders have
tinkered with DFI so they can run lean mixtures only at idle, overrun &
high speed light throttle cruise, when an engine can be leaned with
minimal risk of excessive chamber heat buildup. Even port injection
engines do this defacto particularly at high revs low load, by
recirculating exhaust gas direct back into the engine, which "dilutes" &
cools the charge.

Apart from trying to run a lean mixture by injecting the fuel near the
plug, DFI has no advantage at all & a whole new set of problems.

The latest Toyota material on the subject has a twin injection system, DFI
when required & normal port injection the rest of the time, again the
extra complexity & consumer reliability risks are still not worth the
trouble.

OK so that's the basic issues with DFI in general as I see it.

With a little luck this time the idiots will stay out of the thread???
Their only collective chance of not look even more stupid (not possible)
is to just shut the up:-)

K

Of course the E-Tec series will need to also include a Krause lie or a
loony Tom paste:-) Although I don't think Tom will ever surpass his series
1 posts on gases:-) He must just bully BS his way through life how sad.

I expect the abuse from the simpletons & they never disappoint:-) however
John H chipped me for the Krause lie?? It's really sad that John has
rolled over to this low life lying union bully, so just to remind him who
he's kissing up to & how sad & desperately lonely he must be to allow it.
I guess also it's time to wonder why bullying is a problem in the armed
forces & school systems??? when the teachers don't even have the backbone
to stand up for themselves??? Anyone can appease bullies then deceive
themselves into thinking they have a friend John, but you've gotten into
bed with the worst enemy known to all endeavours, a lying union thug. I
better post some of the lies Krause has told this NG about you personally,
I stress as always Krause is lying & any of us who know & respect John H
in this NG will confirm this is just more of the Krause lies;

You must have run out of high school babysitting jobs

I doubt he's read the classic comics versions of much of anything.

Apparently John has problems being a john. Go figure.

Well, John, since you have no idea or knowledge over the rather peculiar
news "gatherer" I use some days, your opinion is...worthless.

But since your entire world is binary, black or white, I suppose you are
blind to the grey.

That's what happens when you waste your life in the military.

Not after you've wasted your life in the Army.

Gee, John...did you just read about this in Army Times (mustered-out
edition)?

Does John actually teach? I know he's mentioned he subs in the
Alexandria school system, but my recollection is that he has posted that
he mainly babysits high school kids, and doesn't teach. Or was it that
he tries to teach some math classes if he is assigned one, but doesn't
try to teach if he is assigned to a non-math class.

I'm not sure anything about John passes the WGAS test.

Yeah. I'd toss John to the sharks. He seems to have fewer and fewer
redeeming qualities.

John, after all, is a retired military
puke, and the only people in the country who take military pukes
seriously are...other military pukes.

Simpleton.

You really have turned yourself into a lying asshole, John.

As for the rest of Herring's diatribe, he's just being his disingenuous
self. Although he's gotten nastier and nastier the last few weeks. I
think his real asshole personality is emerging, the same one I picked up
on at the marina.

John spent his career in the military and is used to more bull****.

John needs a tad of reprogramming.

It's hard to have respect for an organization that had you in it long
enough for a retirement.

Isn't that why you joined the military? Free health care, free college,
free prescriptions, subsidized housing...such a deal...was it good for
you?

Indeed. Probably too complex for John, even though it is the simplest of
newsreaders to use.

John is absolutely clueless about what you are discussing or about the
b.s. factor in military PR.

Drinking heavily again, John?

Whooosh...right over your head, again, John. But, then, you have no
marketable skills, either...

Well, John, some of us have to be open-minded and bright, like me, and
others of us have to be close-minded and dull, like you.

I suppose we have to cut John Herring some slack...he did spend most of
his adult life in the military, where thinking is not encouraged.

Once again, John, you're not worth more than a one-liner as a response.
Go play with your good conduct medal. Did you also get one for attendance?

Naw. John prefers chickenhawk with his fries.

Which just proves what a sleaze you are, because if you did vote for
Sharpton, you voted in the Democratic primary, and since you are a
Republican, you cast your vote as a would-be spoiler.

Do you ever have anything other than simple-minded thoughts, John?

Stupid? You mean like the 12 or so posts you just vomited up here, John?

Only a low-life right-wing failure like you would think so, John

You probably haven't read either book, either, or many other books, not
for a long time, if ever.

John has limited skills. That's why he spent his adult life in the
military.

No wonder you are so ****y.

But Bush's failures matter not to Herring and other flat-line
Republicans like him. They'll vote for Bush not matter what, utter foolw
that they are.

Yeah, reich, er, right. What a surprise...John the Wingnut voting
Republican...again.

Searching contrainer ships is a lot different from carving away at the
Constitutional rights of citizens, but I wouldn't expect a d.f. like you
to appreciate the difference.

Coulter? Sheesh. You really are a bottom feeder.

Here you go, dicquehead:

John H. in person sort of looks like he is in the mid stages of AIDs.
Too thin, large splotches on his skin, hair falling out...

Did you get an attendance award, Herring?

John and his ilk are simple-minded konservatives, cannot think
abstractly, and see issues only in black or white terms. John is an
especially pathetic konservative, as he spent most of his adult life as
a federal employee sucking on the taxpayers' teat, and now works as a
teacher in the public school system, thus continuing his sucking on the
taxpayers' teat. You would think a konservative like John would disdain
a paycheck from the taxpayers. But that would require him to be able to
think in the abstract, and such thinking is not allowed those in the
military.

Au contraire...I believe teaching to be among the most honorable
professions, and always have. But you're not a teacher, John...you are a
babysitter.

More bull**** from you, John? I have the greatest respect for public
school teachers, who work long hours under difficult conditions for, at
best, ordinary pay and benefits. You're not a real teacher; you're a
substitute teacher who has admitted more than once that on many of your
assignments, you don't teach at all, or even try to teach. You do
nothing more than babysit. You obviously missed the irony in my post;
the insult was aimed at you, not the teaching profession. You are a
self-proclaimed conservative and yet, for your living most of your life,
you have drawn your pay from the taxpayers, and thumbed your nose at
your job responsibilities.

If I lived in your town and were a whining slimeball like you, I'd
complain about you in a way that matters. But I'm not pondscum like you
are, and I'd never ever try to cause anyone job problems because of
their newsgroup political statements or leanings.

You're just living (barely) proof of how low your end of the political
spectrum has sunk.




Australia must be giving grants for computers and internet service in the
asylums now.

Eisboch

www.eisboch.com

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 05:58:49 +1000, "K. Smith" wrote:

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster

Aren't there any other dead horses to beat?

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in
order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then
placarded OMC.

snip

Special thanks again to Del as ever & as always Del when you need to
say something you do & I get worried you'll ping me as & when you
should, I rely upon it as I should:-) I know it's coming & hope I take
it OK, I'll try:-)
Please note that I am taking no sides and I claim no expertise in
internal combustion engines. Physics, maybe. VLSI and signal integrity,
absolutely. But not motors. I do find the subject of new technology
interesting in general but note that the history of internal combustion
is littered with great ideas that didn't work, at least the first time.

I also am not taking any position on etec motors in particular.
Neither do I partake in personal attacks.


So the second subject is Direct Fuel into the combustion chamber
Injection DFI & I say:

snip

del

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:32:24 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:

But not motors.

Engines - motors are electrical. :)


Right. Just like, you don't plug in a drill. You put a drill in the chuck
of a drill motor.

Eisboch

www.eisboch.com

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 05:58:49 +1000, "K. Smith" wrote:


I expect the abuse from the simpletons & they never disappoint:-)
however John H chipped me for the Krause lie?? It's really sad that John
has rolled over to this low life lying union bully, so just to remind
him who he's kissing up to & how sad & desperately lonely he must be to
allow it. I guess also it's time to wonder why bullying is a problem in
the armed forces & school systems??? when the teachers don't even have
the backbone to stand up for themselves??? Anyone can appease bullies
then deceive themselves into thinking they have a friend John, but
you've gotten into bed with the worst enemy known to all endeavours, a
lying union thug. I better post some of the lies Krause has told this NG
about you personally, I stress as always Krause is lying & any of us who
know & respect John H in this NG will confirm this is just more of the
Krause lies;


I 'chipped' you for the personal attack. The subject of the attack was
unimportant. It could have been anyone. The personal attack detracted from
your post, just as this comment and all the Harry posts detract from this
post. Trust me, I don't need reminders of the personal attacks made by
Harry, et al, in the group. They *all* deserve the same amount of
attention.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:45:34 -0400, Eisboch penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:32:24 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:

But not motors.

Engines - motors are electrical. :)


Right. Just like, you don't plug in a drill. You put a drill in the
chuck
of a drill motor.

100% correct! So..... memory check..... what is a drill bit and in
what appurtenance is it used????


I'd take a guess if I knew what the heck an "appurtenance" was.

Eisboch

www.eisboch.com

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:32:24 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:

But not motors.

Engines - motors are electrical. :)


Right. Just like, you don't plug in a drill. You put a drill in the
chuck of a drill motor.

Eisboch

www.eisboch.com
Far out. I never plug in my outboard motor, and it works anyway. Magic!

This is my motor this is my gun. This is for fishing and this is for
fun.

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:58:31 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:



It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.

As you and Ann Coulter seem "just right".

E-Tec problems series 2
 

K. Smith wrote:


(and wrote, and wrote, and wrote, and wrote)

Do you miss the old tone of this group, K, with everybody fighting and
OT virtually all the time?

One might think so.

Will you pick a different victim with each of your "series" posts? You
were very unfair to JohnH, and an apology would not be unwarranted.
There are more than a few of us who have given you loads of crap over
the years, (in exchange for as good or better from you), but JohnH
hasn't done anything I'm aware of to invite, what (?) 8, 10, 12, or
more personal attack paragraphs.

I'd recommend proceeding with caution. If you get way out on the limb
over the new 2-stroke lean burn approach and it turns out the builders
have solved the technical challenges you will look at least slightly
foolish.

How's the winter weather down your way? Rain much? Probably never
snows, right? Grandbabies doing well? Anything to be happy or upbeat
about? Despite our mutual disdain, it would be nice to think you lead a
happy and well adjusted life.

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:58:31 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 05:58:49 +1000, "K. Smith" wrote:


I expect the abuse from the simpletons & they never disappoint:-)
however John H chipped me for the Krause lie?? It's really sad that John
has rolled over to this low life lying union bully, so just to remind
him who he's kissing up to & how sad & desperately lonely he must be to
allow it. I guess also it's time to wonder why bullying is a problem in
the armed forces & school systems??? when the teachers don't even have
the backbone to stand up for themselves??? Anyone can appease bullies
then deceive themselves into thinking they have a friend John, but
you've gotten into bed with the worst enemy known to all endeavours, a
lying union thug. I better post some of the lies Krause has told this NG
about you personally, I stress as always Krause is lying & any of us who
know & respect John H in this NG will confirm this is just more of the
Krause lies;


I 'chipped' you for the personal attack. The subject of the attack was
unimportant. It could have been anyone. The personal attack detracted from
your post, just as this comment and all the Harry posts detract from this
post. Trust me, I don't need reminders of the personal attacks made by
Harry, et al, in the group. They *all* deserve the same amount of
attention.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************


It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.

Did something in my response upset you, Harry, or are you just shooting
from the hip on this one?
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

E-Tec problems series 2
 

Karen,

I am looking at a 2004 Alumacraft 17.5 foot boat with a 115 Evinrude Ficht
motor. This boat and motor has about 200 hours on it.
Should I really be worried?
Didn't most of these motors that were bad "blow up" within a few hours when
new? Also I seem to remember reading in this N/G that if they got past the
first few hours of operation without breaking you probably had a good
engine.
What percentage of failures did the manufacturers have?
Weren't the bigger motors, i.e..; 200 hp and above really the majority of
the problems.



OBTW 3 weeks fishing starts today!!!!!!!!!!! No more inspecting new
cars for 3 weeks!!!!
Nothing but wind, water, good friends, fishing, and a little beer ;-)

Fredo






"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in
order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then placarded
OMC.

The reasons for holding my opinions of what we say are E-Tecs design &
other problems are many, too many for one short NG post, they fall into
numerous categories any one of which, on it's own, is reason enough to
stay well away from them.

(i) The basic concept of running internal combustion engines with lean
mixtures at power, as opposed to overrun (doesn't happen in boats:-)),idle
or high speed very light throttle cruise (again doesn't happen in boats).

(ii) The Direct Fuel Injection (DFI)into the combustion chamber (DFI)

(iii) The fuel injector nozzle.

(iv) The fuel injector

(v) The oiling system

(vi) The ignition system.

(vii) The engine displacements.

(viii) The latest version changes.

(ix) The "potential" for union labour to be used to build them.

(x) The "potential" way the manufacture is funded

(xi) The dealers/suppliers involved & the way/amounts they get paid

(xii) The marketing claims

(xiii) The warranty.

(xiv) Common sense.

I'll make a series of posts dealing with each category & if
needs be sub category. Needless to say, similarly I tried to warn you
through this NG about our "opinions" that Ficht would fail, "before" it
had become the disaster it did.

I was viciously & personally attached in this NG by those mostly with a
vested interest in selling/supporting known defective Ficht engines to
consumers. The dealers of course, the union thugs who had the undeclared
invested interest in the funding of OMC & a gaggle of sad simpletons who,
despite ample warnings in this NG, had fallen into buying one & could only
try to deny the obvious to save some value to their boats & pride to there
ego. Alas all sunk along with OMC when it fetched up on Ficht reef. Save
one true fool who went the next step & just kept claiming he had bought
another one every time the subject came up, which would make him the most
stupid person ever into rec.boats, a seriously sad thing given some of the
simpletons we've had & still have here over the years:-) It's very
possible he's just making it up about
buying more of them because if he had, I doubt his brain stem would even
support cardiac functions & remember a heart continues to beat even
outside the body.

Before we go onto series 2 I better thank all those who responded to
series 1, thanks. I note there were no technical objections raised that
warrant my attention & I thank Del for his usual attention to detail on
running engines lean while at power.

SNIP

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"FREDO" wrote in message
.. .


Karen,

I am looking at a 2004 Alumacraft 17.5 foot boat with a 115 Evinrude Ficht
motor. This boat and motor has about 200 hours on it.
Should I really be worried?
Didn't most of these motors that were bad "blow up" within a few hours
when new? Also I seem to remember reading in this N/G that if they got
past the first few hours of operation without breaking you probably had a
good engine.
What percentage of failures did the manufacturers have?
Weren't the bigger motors, i.e..; 200 hp and above really the majority of
the problems.



Well, FREDO, you must be very new here to post that kind of message to
Karen.

First of all, do a search on her posts and see what kind of attitude she
has.

Second, before accepting any answer from her, ask for her experiences and
training and any credentials in the subject of FICHT, Evinrude DI, or E-TEC
engines. She will not give you any as she spouts the same "spruik", as she
calls it, since 1999.

Ficht was first introduced in mid 1996. Back in 1999, the then president of
OMC stated in a news conference, that 20% of the 1998 150-175 FICHT engines
with a 25" shaft, had major problems. Karen loves to quote that quote, but
does so out of context. The factory sent out teams of mechanics to repair
and upgrade all the owners of the '98 and '99 150&175 motors. The FICHT was
re-designed and improved in 2000 and was even more improved by Bombardier
when they took over in 2002 and was produced up to a few months ago.

Just think, if the FICHT and E-TEC's didn't work and blow up all the time,
as Karen contends, then why is Evinrude the 3rd best selling brand in the
US? Wouldn't you think that no one would by them if they blew up and didn't
work after all these years.

Right now if you want a dealer to order an E-TEC, especially the mid-range
models, you will have to wait about a month as the demand is higher than
expected and the company is running full output on several assembly lines to
keep up.

From a service manager's point of view (I have nothing to do with sales) the
motors are working well and we have fewer complaints and warranty claims
than we do with Yamaha which we also service. I am the guy who has to talk
to a mad customer if something breaks down and ruins their weekend on the
water, so I know which motors have problems and ones that don't.

Back to your original question, as with any used product, have the motor
checked out by a trained professional and ask for the computer report that
will tell you the total hours and the percent of use at each rpm range,
along with any stored "faults" that the computer may have detected. Good
luck.

Bill Grannis
service manager

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:10:12 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:58:31 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 05:58:49 +1000, "K. Smith" wrote:


I expect the abuse from the simpletons & they never disappoint:-)
however John H chipped me for the Krause lie?? It's really sad that John
has rolled over to this low life lying union bully, so just to remind
him who he's kissing up to & how sad & desperately lonely he must be to
allow it. I guess also it's time to wonder why bullying is a problem in
the armed forces & school systems??? when the teachers don't even have
the backbone to stand up for themselves??? Anyone can appease bullies
then deceive themselves into thinking they have a friend John, but
you've gotten into bed with the worst enemy known to all endeavours, a
lying union thug. I better post some of the lies Krause has told this NG
about you personally, I stress as always Krause is lying & any of us who
know & respect John H in this NG will confirm this is just more of the
Krause lies;

I 'chipped' you for the personal attack. The subject of the attack was
unimportant. It could have been anyone. The personal attack detracted from
your post, just as this comment and all the Harry posts detract from this
post. Trust me, I don't need reminders of the personal attacks made by
Harry, et al, in the group. They *all* deserve the same amount of
attention.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.

Did something in my response upset you, Harry, or are you just shooting
from the hip on this one?
--
John H

I just think it would be a match made in heaven.

One would hope you would outgrow your nonsense.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:44:56 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:58:31 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.

As you and Ann Coulter seem "just right".


Doubtful. I don't have much use for bleached, skinny, hyper, racist,
teatless blondes.

It's not about looks, Harry. You two have the same disposition. Your
personalities just "fit". :-)

E-Tec problems series 2
 

FREDO wrote:
Karen,

I am looking at a 2004 Alumacraft 17.5 foot boat with a 115 Evinrude Ficht
motor. This boat and motor has about 200 hours on it.
Should I really be worried?
Didn't most of these motors that were bad "blow up" within a few hours when
new? Also I seem to remember reading in this N/G that if they got past the
first few hours of operation without breaking you probably had a good
engine.
What percentage of failures did the manufacturers have?
Weren't the bigger motors, i.e..; 200 hp and above really the majority of
the problems.



OBTW 3 weeks fishing starts today!!!!!!!!!!! No more inspecting new
cars for 3 weeks!!!!
Nothing but wind, water, good friends, fishing, and a little beer ;-)

Fredo






"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in
order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then placarded
OMC.

The reasons for holding my opinions of what we say are E-Tecs design &
other problems are many, too many for one short NG post, they fall into
numerous categories any one of which, on it's own, is reason enough to
stay well away from them.

(i) The basic concept of running internal combustion engines with lean
mixtures at power, as opposed to overrun (doesn't happen in boats:-)),idle
or high speed very light throttle cruise (again doesn't happen in boats).

(ii) The Direct Fuel Injection (DFI)into the combustion chamber (DFI)

(iii) The fuel injector nozzle.

(iv) The fuel injector

(v) The oiling system

(vi) The ignition system.

(vii) The engine displacements.

(viii) The latest version changes.

(ix) The "potential" for union labour to be used to build them.

(x) The "potential" way the manufacture is funded

(xi) The dealers/suppliers involved & the way/amounts they get paid

(xii) The marketing claims

(xiii) The warranty.

(xiv) Common sense.

I'll make a series of posts dealing with each category & if
needs be sub category. Needless to say, similarly I tried to warn you
through this NG about our "opinions" that Ficht would fail, "before" it
had become the disaster it did.

I was viciously & personally attached in this NG by those mostly with a
vested interest in selling/supporting known defective Ficht engines to
consumers. The dealers of course, the union thugs who had the undeclared
invested interest in the funding of OMC & a gaggle of sad simpletons who,
despite ample warnings in this NG, had fallen into buying one & could only
try to deny the obvious to save some value to their boats & pride to there
ego. Alas all sunk along with OMC when it fetched up on Ficht reef. Save
one true fool who went the next step & just kept claiming he had bought
another one every time the subject came up, which would make him the most
stupid person ever into rec.boats, a seriously sad thing given some of the
simpletons we've had & still have here over the years:-) It's very
possible he's just making it up about
buying more of them because if he had, I doubt his brain stem would even
support cardiac functions & remember a heart continues to beat even
outside the body.

Before we go onto series 2 I better thank all those who responded to
series 1, thanks. I note there were no technical objections raised that
warrant my attention & I thank Del for his usual attention to detail on
running engines lean while at power.

SNIP



Fredo,
Visit a mechanic who services but does not actually sell E-Tec and/or
Ficht and you will get a more knowledgeable answer concerning the real
world problems.

In rec.boats, we have not had any owners complain about E-Tec and Ficht
in many years. That in itself should give you an idea of the number of
problems there are in the real world.
--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

E-Tec problems series 2
 

Jack Goff wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:44:56 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:58:31 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.
As you and Ann Coulter seem "just right".

Doubtful. I don't have much use for bleached, skinny, hyper, racist,
teatless blondes.

It's not about looks, Harry. You two have the same disposition. Your
personalities just "fit". :-)

Jack,
I don't read all of Harry's posts, but from what I have seen Harry has
gone out of his way to avoid most of the personal attacks that used to
be rampant in rec.boats.

Rec.boats is a better place whenever someone holds off making any
inflammatory personal attacks. I enjoy reading most of Harry's posts
today, because the majority are either boating related or friendly and
non inflammatory.

--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:47:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:44:56 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:58:31 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.
As you and Ann Coulter seem "just right".

Doubtful. I don't have much use for bleached, skinny, hyper, racist,
teatless blondes.

It's not about looks, Harry. You two have the same disposition. Your
personalities just "fit". :-)

Jack,
I don't read all of Harry's posts, but from what I have seen Harry has
gone out of his way to avoid most of the personal attacks that used to
be rampant in rec.boats.

Rec.boats is a better place whenever someone holds off making any
inflammatory personal attacks. I enjoy reading most of Harry's posts
today, because the majority are either boating related or friendly and
non inflammatory.

You must have missed Harry's post to me a couple hours ago.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

E-Tec problems series 2
 

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:47:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:44:56 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:58:31 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.
As you and Ann Coulter seem "just right".

Doubtful. I don't have much use for bleached, skinny, hyper, racist,
teatless blondes.
It's not about looks, Harry. You two have the same disposition. Your
personalities just "fit". :-)
Jack,
I don't read all of Harry's posts, but from what I have seen Harry has
gone out of his way to avoid most of the personal attacks that used to
be rampant in rec.boats.

Rec.boats is a better place whenever someone holds off making any
inflammatory personal attacks. I enjoy reading most of Harry's posts
today, because the majority are either boating related or friendly and
non inflammatory.

You must have missed Harry's post to me a couple hours ago.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************
JohnH,
I saw it, but to be honest, I tend to ignore most of the threads between
you and Harry, because they are so predictable. From what I have seen
you and Harry both enjoy tweaking each other, and neither party can
assume all of the guilt or innocence.

--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:22:13 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

what is a drill bit and in

An object commonly referred to as a "drill" except by machinists..

what appurtenance is it used????

A drill chuck which is an appurtenance to a drill motor.

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 09:03:24 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:47:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:44:56 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:58:31 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.
As you and Ann Coulter seem "just right".

Doubtful. I don't have much use for bleached, skinny, hyper, racist,
teatless blondes.
It's not about looks, Harry. You two have the same disposition. Your
personalities just "fit". :-)
Jack,
I don't read all of Harry's posts, but from what I have seen Harry has
gone out of his way to avoid most of the personal attacks that used to
be rampant in rec.boats.

Rec.boats is a better place whenever someone holds off making any
inflammatory personal attacks. I enjoy reading most of Harry's posts
today, because the majority are either boating related or friendly and
non inflammatory.

You must have missed Harry's post to me a couple hours ago.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************
JohnH,
I saw it, but to be honest, I tend to ignore most of the threads between
you and Harry, because they are so predictable. From what I have seen
you and Harry both enjoy tweaking each other, and neither party can
assume all of the guilt or innocence.

Thanks. I didn't realize my response to Karen was a 'tweak' to Harry, but I
suppose it's all in one's perspective.

I *do* agree that Harry has, for the most part, made an attempt to curtail
the name-calling and offensive behavior, as he has with the political crap.
For that, a big "Thank You, Harry" is definitely in order.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:29:25 -0400, Wayne.B penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:22:13 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

what is a drill bit and in

An object commonly referred to as a "drill" except by machinists..

what appurtenance is it used????

A drill chuck which is an appurtenance to a drill motor.

Nope! Bits are not used in drill motors....

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.


My guess:

Drill bit is a drill with a long, tapered shank. The appurtenance is the
collar or whatever it is that the shank slips into.
Used on machine tools like Bridgeports, large drill presses, etc.

???

Eisboch

www.eisboch.com

E-Tec problems series 2
 

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 09:03:24 -0400, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

...because they are so predictable. From what I have seen
you and Harry both enjoy tweaking each other, ...

Like children..... I think they are tweaking each other's twanger....
now, if they would just learn to play ball together..... as in....
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/rainbowkidsshow.html



Now, that's funny and I don't care who you are.... :-)

Let's all pluck away.

--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:13:38 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


Ok, Oh Wise One - what is it?

A "bit" is a drilling tool with a square shank as used with a "bit
stock" or better known as a "brace"....... as in "brace and bit."

Next weird question. What can you use to drill a triangular, square,
or hexagonal hole?

N Jnggf Qevyy!

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats



http://www.integerspin.co.uk/polygon.htm

E-Tec problems series 2
 

Gene Kearns wrote:

Wise decision. Any REAL sailor knows that Rum is much more
appropriate!


Ah!

Lord Nelsons blood!

E-Tec problems series 2
 

FREDO wrote:
Karen,

I am looking at a 2004 Alumacraft 17.5 foot boat with a 115 Evinrude Ficht
motor. This boat and motor has about 200 hours on it.
Should I really be worried?
Didn't most of these motors that were bad "blow up" within a few hours when
new? Also I seem to remember reading in this N/G that if they got past the
first few hours of operation without breaking you probably had a good
engine.
What percentage of failures did the manufacturers have?
Weren't the bigger motors, i.e..; 200 hp and above really the majority of
the problems.



OBTW 3 weeks fishing starts today!!!!!!!!!!! No more inspecting new
cars for 3 weeks!!!!
Nothing but wind, water, good friends, fishing, and a little beer ;-)

Fredo



No I don't think you should be "really" worried because is does seem
that the smaller Fichts faired better & on boats like that didn't seem
to subject the engine to wide throttle openings below say 2000 rpm.

It never was that ALL Fichts failed they admitted 1 in 5 & I suspect
that was a fudge but it never was all of them.

Of course that shouldn't stop you raising the Ficht issue as a major
bargaining chip:-) After all when you go to sell it somebody will use it
against your asking price. If the boat can be had at price you like
............ why not.


K







"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

The E-Tec range of OB engines are now getting sold in numbers into
various markets & their ads are a total pain. So some anti-ads are in
order.

In our opinion E-Tec have the potential to be an even bigger
consumer disaster than the first time when they were called Ficht &
marketed in the main by the same dealers/riggers who were then placarded
OMC.

The reasons for holding my opinions of what we say are E-Tecs design &
other problems are many, too many for one short NG post, they fall into
numerous categories any one of which, on it's own, is reason enough to
stay well away from them.

(i) The basic concept of running internal combustion engines with lean
mixtures at power, as opposed to overrun (doesn't happen in boats:-)),idle
or high speed very light throttle cruise (again doesn't happen in boats).

(ii) The Direct Fuel Injection (DFI)into the combustion chamber (DFI)

(iii) The fuel injector nozzle.

(iv) The fuel injector

(v) The oiling system

(vi) The ignition system.

(vii) The engine displacements.

(viii) The latest version changes.

(ix) The "potential" for union labour to be used to build them.

(x) The "potential" way the manufacture is funded

(xi) The dealers/suppliers involved & the way/amounts they get paid

(xii) The marketing claims

(xiii) The warranty.

(xiv) Common sense.

I'll make a series of posts dealing with each category & if
needs be sub category. Needless to say, similarly I tried to warn you
through this NG about our "opinions" that Ficht would fail, "before" it
had become the disaster it did.

I was viciously & personally attached in this NG by those mostly with a
vested interest in selling/supporting known defective Ficht engines to
consumers. The dealers of course, the union thugs who had the undeclared
invested interest in the funding of OMC & a gaggle of sad simpletons who,
despite ample warnings in this NG, had fallen into buying one & could only
try to deny the obvious to save some value to their boats & pride to there
ego. Alas all sunk along with OMC when it fetched up on Ficht reef. Save
one true fool who went the next step & just kept claiming he had bought
another one every time the subject came up, which would make him the most
stupid person ever into rec.boats, a seriously sad thing given some of the
simpletons we've had & still have here over the years:-) It's very
possible he's just making it up about
buying more of them because if he had, I doubt his brain stem would even
support cardiac functions & remember a heart continues to beat even
outside the body.

Before we go onto series 2 I better thank all those who responded to
series 1, thanks. I note there were no technical objections raised that
warrant my attention & I thank Del for his usual attention to detail on
running engines lean while at power.


SNIP

E-Tec problems series 2
 

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:02:47 GMT, "FREDO" wrote:



Karen,


Um...first of all, Karen has no credentials, has never offered any
credentials or, for that matter, has any understanding of the
technology other than extrapolating on a problem that the 150/175 hp
FICHTS had which was rectified. And not all 150/175 engines had the
problem, but the problem was strictly related to 150/175 engines.

Secondly, I owned three FICHTS, a 200 and two 225s - I did have a
problem with the 200 that was unrelated to what Karen's screeds are
often about. The problem with the 200 was related here and as Bill
will tell you, is a problem that can occur to any engine and is so
rare to be almost nonexistent. Just law of averages kind of problem.

The FICHT technology is sound and extremely efficient.

I replaced the FICHTS with ETECS - two when I sold my old Contender 31
for a new one and I just replaced the 200 FICHT on my 20 foot Ranger
with a new 225 ETEC.

I am a strong believer in the technology and the proof in the pudding
is that other manufacturers are going back to two stroke tech out of
four stroke for a variety of reasons - one being the success of ETEC.

I am looking at a 2004 Alumacraft 17.5 foot boat with a 115 Evinrude Ficht
motor. This boat and motor has about 200 hours on it.


That's about 100 hrs per year which isn't all that much.


Should I really be worried?


No - absolutely not.


Didn't most of these motors that were bad "blow up" within a few hours when
new? Also I seem to remember reading in this N/G that if they got past the
first few hours of operation without breaking you probably had a good
engine.


Not true at all. They are sound and will work just fine.

The main thing is to have the engine checked out by a qualified
mechanic - have the engine hours checked, compression, etc. Spend the
money on an hour of shop time and have them tell you if it's good or
not.


What percentage of failures did the manufacturers have?
Weren't the bigger motors, i.e..; 200 hp and above really the majority of
the problems.


No - 150/175 which shared the same block.


OBTW 3 weeks fishing starts today!!!!!!!!!!! No more inspecting new
cars for 3 weeks!!!!
Nothing but wind, water, good friends, fishing, and a little beer ;-)


YAY!!!!

Although I do without the beer - I don't allow beer on my boats. :)


No comment:-)

K

E-Tec problems series 2
 

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 05:58:49 +1000, "K. Smith" wrote:



I expect the abuse from the simpletons & they never disappoint:-)
however John H chipped me for the Krause lie?? It's really sad that John
has rolled over to this low life lying union bully, so just to remind
him who he's kissing up to & how sad & desperately lonely he must be to
allow it. I guess also it's time to wonder why bullying is a problem in
the armed forces & school systems??? when the teachers don't even have
the backbone to stand up for themselves??? Anyone can appease bullies
then deceive themselves into thinking they have a friend John, but
you've gotten into bed with the worst enemy known to all endeavours, a
lying union thug. I better post some of the lies Krause has told this NG
about you personally, I stress as always Krause is lying & any of us who
know & respect John H in this NG will confirm this is just more of the
Krause lies;



I 'chipped' you for the personal attack. The subject of the attack was
unimportant. It could have been anyone. The personal attack detracted from
your post, just as this comment and all the Harry posts detract from this
post. Trust me, I don't need reminders of the personal attacks made by
Harry, et al, in the group. They *all* deserve the same amount of
attention.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

As you say John but I was trying to confirm my attitude to bullies &
simpletons like that one particularly, sorry if I've offended you, of
course if I posted some of this thrown at me by him & few others here
you say you've been getting off light.

I read what Chuck says & will keep it in mind.

All & all I think this went OK just the usual abuse from the usual
bullies but like the first one no actual technical challenges to what I
say.

The next E-Tec Problems one deals with the injector so expect the
runaway william to blow a head gasket:-).

K

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:54:00 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:47:15 -0400, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

......from what I have seen Harry has
gone out of his way to avoid most of the personal attacks that used to
be rampant in rec.boats.....

I agree. This is self evident and laudable behavior. I've noticed new
"faces" and a renewed interest in boating chatter. I attribute this
almost solely to the abatement of OT vitriol.

I thank those others who have refrained.

Gene and Reggie, you guys crack me up. Or did you miss Harry's post:

It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.

That's what I responded to, a post where Harry went out of his way to
*make* a personal attack. I guess in comparison to his behavior in
the past, where he's at today is a huge improvement. I'll try not to
slam your pet boy in the future, even if it is just throwing his crap
right back at him.

E-Tec problems series 2
 

Jack Goff wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:54:00 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:47:15 -0400, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

......from what I have seen Harry has
gone out of his way to avoid most of the personal attacks that used to
be rampant in rec.boats.....
I agree. This is self evident and laudable behavior. I've noticed new
"faces" and a renewed interest in boating chatter. I attribute this
almost solely to the abatement of OT vitriol.

I thank those others who have refrained.

Gene and Reggie, you guys crack me up. Or did you miss Harry's post:

It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.

That's what I responded to, a post where Harry went out of his way to
*make* a personal attack. I guess in comparison to his behavior in
the past, where he's at today is a huge improvement. I'll try not to
slam your pet boy in the future, even if it is just throwing his crap
right back at him.



Jack,
Harry is not my "pet boy", but if you really are interested in making
rec.boats a place to discuss boating and/or enjoy chatting with boaters
you really will ignore those posts you think are offensive. "Throwing
crap" back at someone who you think is offensive does nothing but fill
rec.boats up with crap. I am sure you have to agree with Gene's comment
about the new faces and renewed interest in boating topics.

--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:44:25 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Jack Goff wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:54:00 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 08:47:15 -0400, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

......from what I have seen Harry has
gone out of his way to avoid most of the personal attacks that used to
be rampant in rec.boats.....
I agree. This is self evident and laudable behavior. I've noticed new
"faces" and a renewed interest in boating chatter. I attribute this
almost solely to the abatement of OT vitriol.

I thank those others who have refrained.
Gene and Reggie, you guys crack me up. Or did you miss Harry's post:

It's too bad you are married, Herring. You and Karen Smith would make
the ideal couple in so many ways.
That's what I responded to, a post where Harry went out of his way to
*make* a personal attack. I guess in comparison to his behavior in
the past, where he's at today is a huge improvement. I'll try not to
slam your pet boy in the future, even if it is just throwing his crap
right back at him.



Jack,
Harry is not my "pet boy", but if you really are interested in making
rec.boats a place to discuss boating and/or enjoy chatting with boaters
you really will ignore those posts you think are offensive. "Throwing
crap" back at someone who you think is offensive does nothing but fill
rec.boats up with crap. I am sure you have to agree with Gene's comment
about the new faces and renewed interest in boating topics.



Jackoff, along with a couple of other assholes here, like Fritz, has no
real interest in discussion "boats." He pops up here every couple of
days to toss an insult or two at his favorites, and then slips back into
his septic tank. You're just encouraging him.

Harry, it is sure nice to see that you have reduced your insulting personal
attacks. Your on-topic posts are very enjoyable.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:52:46 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

K. Smith wrote:


In K. Smith, as Shortwave Sportfishing says:

Um...first of all, Karen has no credentials, has never offered any
credentials or, for that matter, has any understanding of the
technology other than extrapolating on a problem that the 150/175 hp
FICHTS had which was rectified.

Harry, is it necessary to repeat Tom's statement three times? Is this so
others won't make a comment about personal attacks?
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:45:36 -0400, JohnH wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:44:25 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


Jackoff, along with a couple of other assholes here, like Fritz, has no
real interest in discussion "boats." He pops up here every couple of
days to toss an insult or two at his favorites, and then slips back into
his septic tank. You're just encouraging him.

Harry, it is sure nice to see that you have reduced your insulting personal
attacks. Your on-topic posts are very enjoyable.

Harry just put a "Coulter" on me.

I feel... vindicated. Harry's still the worst polluter on here, by
far.

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:59:08 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:16:55 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:39:36 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


On the other hand...

http://www.sni-grinders.com/news/20050130.html

Bully for him, but he *is* the exception! They were (and I suspect
still are) excellent machines. I have a venerable Heald 72-A internal
grinder in my shop....

A lot of it was the close cooperation between Norton Abrasives and the
Heald family. When I worked at Heald, I spent as much time at Norton
(right across the street from Heald) as I did in my office at Heald.

It's unfortunate that the Heald family sold the operation to Milacron
- who promptly drove the Worcester operation into the ground.

Truly.... Cincinnati Milacron was a disaster..... and if they took
Heald down with them... I mourn the loss for customers, employees, and
other concerned parties.... :-(

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

Many of my customers are machine shops, plastic molders (injection and blow)
or have machine shops as part of their die and tooling repair operations.

I am seeing more and more German and Japanese made machining centers and
presses, especially those that are CNC.

I have also seen some pretty old mechanical presses and multiple spindle
screw machines made in the US that are still running strong.

Who are some of the top players in the business right now (internationally)?

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"Jack Goff" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:45:36 -0400, JohnH wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:44:25 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


Jackoff, along with a couple of other assholes here, like Fritz, has no
real interest in discussion "boats." He pops up here every couple of
days to toss an insult or two at his favorites, and then slips back into
his septic tank. You're just encouraging him.

Harry, it is sure nice to see that you have reduced your insulting
personal
attacks. Your on-topic posts are very enjoyable.

Harry just put a "Coulter" on me.

I feel... vindicated. Harry's still the worst polluter on here, by
far.

Not anymore.

Why don't both of you just killfile and then ignore each other seeing that
you cannot get along?

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:01:19 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:


You can feel "vindicated" when you post something of interest to the
group, rather than something you know that any particular reader will
find inflammatory.

Grow up and talk boats...... John. You know better. We've done a
pretty good job, of later. Don't let it slip to the vandals.....

Nah... I'll feel vindicated when *I* want to. Besides, I have talked
boats a few times in the past. Even with my recent transgressions, I
still have a better signal-to-noise ratio than some.

Oh well, I'll continue as I am... scanning the posts from time to
time, reading the boating threads that interest me, and pointing out
stupidity when I feel like doing so. We are all still free to do
that, in the manner we see fit, right?

And if you guys want to "sheriff" me for that, so what? My comment to
Harry was just another way of "sheriffing" his continued bad behavior.
I didn't call him a single name. And I won't you, either :-)

Jack

E-Tec problems series 2
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

The whole problem was that CM was hell bent and determined to build
their own controllers instead of concentrating on building superior
precision machines and using Siemens or Allen Bradley controllers
instead of that abortion of a controller they designed.


Speaking of programmable controllers...

Back in the late 70's we decided to get away from building racks of control
relays in our thin film deposition equipment and move on to the exciting
world of programmable controllers and invited the sales reps from the
various manufacturers to come in and discuss their equipment. I remember
Texas Instruments, Allen Bradley and a couple of others (Gould, I think and
one other that I can't remember). The equipment we built often included
high powered electron beam power supplies that loved to arc and RF power
supplies (13.56 Mhz) for plasma sputter deposition. Anyway .... a very
noisy and potent electromagnetic environment.

I devised a test for the programmable controller demos. We asked each rep
to program a simple ladder diagram logic program into their equipment. We
then took the controller and I/O rack and sat it on a 4'x4' by 1/2 inch
thick piece of aluminum plate and grounded the controller to the plate. We
then asked one of our welders to run a few beads on the plate using the high
freq setting on his welder.

One of the controllers blew up a main bus bar. One of the others lost all
it's program and probably a few chips.
The Texas Instruments dude refused to do the test. The only one that
survived fine and functioned perfectly, even after extended "tests" was the
Allen-Bradley. Obviously, we standardized on Allen-Bradley.

Eisboch

www.eisboch.com

E-Tec problems series 2
 

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 01:02:41 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:


On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:53:53 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:



The whole problem was that CM was hell bent and determined to build
their own controllers instead of concentrating on building superior
precision machines and using Siemens or Allen Bradley controllers
instead of that abortion of a controller they designed.


Oh, holy sh*t.

We had source code to the Cincinnati 10H machining centers in the late
70's (provided by the company).

What a bunch of clueless idiots.....

Even P&W had done better with a TI business computer in the
Tri-mac.....


I could tell you stories... :)

The CM controller was a horror show - an interlocking maze of "pages"
that often conflicted with each other because they were all located in
different locations in memory.

Then again, the software geeks were all Mac users rather than PC users
so I guess that explains a lot. :)

Unfortunate.
Mac users in the late 70's? Seems unlikely.

As for PCs, Microsoft code is well known for its lucid quality and
excellent structure......NOT.

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

E-Tec problems series 2
 

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:31:25 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:38:26 GMT, Jack Goff wrote:

Nah... I'll feel vindicated when *I* want to. Besides, I have talked
boats a few times in the past.

Your own words make my point crystal clear.

Not sure what your point was, but mine is:

- You do not control when I feel vindicated.
- I've talked boats in the past, and will again.
- If you'll scold Harry first, then I won't have to make my post.
and last, but not least...
- Don't dare challenge Gene in any way, because he'll use up bandwidth
arguing if he doesn't agree with you. Polluting the NG.


A word, to the wise, should be sufficient!

Indeed. I, in the interest of the NG, surrender. Grow up... no reply
necessary.

Jack

E-Tec problems series 2
 

Not judging anybodys credentials, but I talked with a guy in my shop
today that has had nothing but good experiences with a couple 175
Ficht's and is even happier now with his 200hp E-Tec.
he was telling me that he knows that 2 cycles will eventually be
snuffed, but until then he will keep trading for E-TEC engines.


Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:
In K. Smith, as Shortwave Sportfishing says:

Um...first of all, Karen has no credentials, has never offered any
credentials or, for that matter, has any understanding of the
technology other than extrapolating on a problem that the 150/175 hp
FICHTS had which was rectified.