Motor oil opnions
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 5 Jun 2006 09:33:12 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:



Paraffin occurs naturally to some extent in oil. My uncle was an
aviation machinist and being before they added alot of junk to oil, new
the differences in amounts of paraffin in California, Texas, and Penn.
crude

There are two types of crudes: naphthenic and paraffinic. Naphthenic
crudes contain very little paraffin. Paraffinic crudes have most of
the paraffin removed in a de-waxing process.

True, however, there is still paraffin in naphthenic crude. But not in
amounts significant to have to take out. Pennsylvania crude has a lot
of paraffin in it, for one. There are many, many types of crude from
around the world, all of them are different.



Aviation oils designed for recip. engines have very few additives... ,
they don't even contain detergents, relying on an ashless dispersant
package....

That's why in the '40's they were quite worried about where the crude
came from because of it's content.


But there are some zinc compounds added for rust prevention.

Motor oil opnions
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 5 Jun 2006 09:33:12 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:



Paraffin occurs naturally to some extent in oil. My uncle was an
aviation machinist and being before they added alot of junk to oil, new
the differences in amounts of paraffin in California, Texas, and Penn.
crude

There are two types of crudes: naphthenic and paraffinic. Naphthenic
crudes contain very little paraffin. Paraffinic crudes have most of
the paraffin removed in a de-waxing process.

True, however, there is still paraffin in naphthenic crude. But not in
amounts significant to have to take out. Pennsylvania crude has a lot
of paraffin in it, for one. There are many, many types of crude from
around the world, all of them are different.



Aviation oils designed for recip. engines have very few additives... ,
they don't even contain detergents, relying on an ashless dispersant
package....

That's why in the '40's they were quite worried about where the crude
came from because of it's content.


But there are some zinc compounds added for rust prevention.

I'm sure that today there are "blends".

Motor oil opnions
 

I'm really not sure if the synthetic oil has to contribute to the
quietness of the engine.

maybe so.

I've always been leary of using a synthetic, because I don't have new
engines for one. and I've known of people to change to synthetic on
older vehicles with 90+ thousand miles, then complain because the
bearings are hammered out of the engine. I've always copnsidered that
the reason why is because with bearings with high milage already
"broken in" that they have an excess clearence in the tolorances, which
is fine with a 10 and even 5W motor oil, but when you throw in
synthetic, which initially is thinner than ATF, or water, the viscosity
isn't really changed with heat, but there is less oil pressure because
of the tolorances being opened up so the oil pressure drops.

Thats my view.



trainfan1 wrote:
Big gus wrote:
Hi guys thanks for all the advice
posted in the past.

well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil.

Some use "marine" grade while others do not

Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil

was wonder what every ones thoughts were?

Thanks
m



For the rather minimal cost, & maximum protection, I use 5W-30 or 10W-30
Mobil 1 synthetic in the inboard. That engine is as clean as a whistle
and extremely quiet - the loudest noise with the exhaust under water is
a tie, with the belts going around the pullies, or the bubbles at the
transom.

Rob

Motor oil opnions
 

I forgot to add, that my Brother -in-law has bought several corvettes
in the last 10 years and they have come factory with Mobile 1.

But those are brand new engines.

If I put a Brand new or high quality reman in my boat, I'd probably use
Mobile 1 or Amzoil, but until then.........



wrote:
I'm really not sure if the synthetic oil has to contribute to the
quietness of the engine.

maybe so.

I've always been leary of using a synthetic, because I don't have new
engines for one. and I've known of people to change to synthetic on
older vehicles with 90+ thousand miles, then complain because the
bearings are hammered out of the engine. I've always copnsidered that
the reason why is because with bearings with high milage already
"broken in" that they have an excess clearence in the tolorances, which
is fine with a 10 and even 5W motor oil, but when you throw in
synthetic, which initially is thinner than ATF, or water, the viscosity
isn't really changed with heat, but there is less oil pressure because
of the tolorances being opened up so the oil pressure drops.

Thats my view.



trainfan1 wrote:
Big gus wrote:
Hi guys thanks for all the advice
posted in the past.

well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil.

Some use "marine" grade while others do not

Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil

was wonder what every ones thoughts were?

Thanks
m



For the rather minimal cost, & maximum protection, I use 5W-30 or 10W-30
Mobil 1 synthetic in the inboard. That engine is as clean as a whistle
and extremely quiet - the loudest noise with the exhaust under water is
a tie, with the belts going around the pullies, or the bubbles at the
transom.

Rob

Motor oil opnions
 

WOW what a discussion.

after reading all the posts I guess I should clarify my question

The engines a 502 Merc inboards, not V-drives

I was wondering if anyone had been uses something like Valvoline 50
weight racing oil.

When I switched my Crusader 454's from the 25W-40 marine oil to
Valvoline 60 weight, per advice of a 30 year marine mechanic, the boat
ran 100% better.

Now I have newer boat with engines that were rebuilt in 94, I am
trying Valvoline strait weight 50 racing oil.

I boat in Cleveland ohio on lake erie.

I WILL not "winterize" the boat with that oil, but its full blown
summer here and I just changed the "winterized" oil with the strait
weight Valvoline.

Thanks for all the advice






On 5 Jun 2006 13:15:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:


Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 5 Jun 2006 09:33:12 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:



Paraffin occurs naturally to some extent in oil. My uncle was an
aviation machinist and being before they added alot of junk to oil, new
the differences in amounts of paraffin in California, Texas, and Penn.
crude

There are two types of crudes: naphthenic and paraffinic. Naphthenic
crudes contain very little paraffin. Paraffinic crudes have most of
the paraffin removed in a de-waxing process.

True, however, there is still paraffin in naphthenic crude. But not in
amounts significant to have to take out. Pennsylvania crude has a lot
of paraffin in it, for one. There are many, many types of crude from
around the world, all of them are different.



Aviation oils designed for recip. engines have very few additives... ,
they don't even contain detergents, relying on an ashless dispersant
package....

That's why in the '40's they were quite worried about where the crude
came from because of it's content.


But there are some zinc compounds added for rust prevention.

I'm sure that today there are "blends".

Motor oil opnions
 

I pulled this from the Crane Camshaft website (I don't knwo what all
the question marks are about)

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=newsLetters&no=120

Oil Recommendations for Hydraulic Roller Lifters

At Crane, we are extremely proud of the success of our ?billet-steel
bodied? hydraulic roller lifters. They permit faster opening rates,
higher usable lifts, and can withstand more spring force than any other
hydraulic roller lifter on the market. Warranty issues have been
extremely rare, but two problems areas have been the cause of most
problems.


Dirt and contaminants in the oil, causing the inner plunger to stick,
is the most common cause of ?noisy? or ?ticking? lifters. It is
critical that engine components be properly cleaned prior to assembly.
Also, quality oil filters and timely oil changes (especially after long
storage periods) are essential to keeping the contaminants out of the
lifters.


Wrong weight of oil - Hydraulic lifters have an internal operating
clearance of approximately .00015? - .00035?. This is in the range of
1/10th to 1/20th of the thickness of a human hair. Thick oils (SAE 30
and higher) can cause many problems in hydraulic lifters. Thicker oil
slows the ?bleed-down? rate and contributes to lifter ?pump-up.? Old
thick oil can cause the plungers to stick and act as if the lifter has
?collapsed.? Thicker oils flow much more slowly through a cold engine,
so frequent cold starts result in vastly increased engine component
wear. Straight weight oils (even as thick as SAE 50) do not have the
?film strength? of multi-viscosity oils such as 5W-20, 5W-30, and
10W-30, so with the extreme opening rates available to roller cams,
straight weight oil films can start to break down. It is this last
point (the tremendous film strength of multi viscosity oils as compared
to ?racing? oils) that fools many ?old timers? who think that
traditional thick, straight weight oils are best for performance
applications.

Crane R&D strongly recommends the use of multi-viscosity oils in all
hydraulic roller lifters. Our tests have consistently shown a 3-5 HP
increase throughout the RPM range when compared to straight weight
oils. In addition, we have never experienced a component failure due to
?thin,? multi-viscosity. NOTE: exotic fuels (alcohol, nitromethane,
etc.) require special lubricants for which most multi-viscosity oils
are not qualified.






Gene Kearns wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 20:39:54 -0400, Big gus penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

WOW what a discussion.

after reading all the posts I guess I should clarify my question

The engines a 502 Merc inboards, not V-drives

I was wondering if anyone had been uses something like Valvoline 50
weight racing oil.

When I switched my Crusader 454's from the 25W-40 marine oil to
Valvoline 60 weight, per advice of a 30 year marine mechanic, the boat
ran 100% better.

Now I have newer boat with engines that were rebuilt in 94, I am
trying Valvoline strait weight 50 racing oil.

I boat in Cleveland ohio on lake erie.

I WILL not "winterize" the boat with that oil, but its full blown
summer here and I just changed the "winterized" oil with the strait
weight Valvoline.

Thanks for all the advice

Wow..... I'd be afraid of 60 weight oil..... that is really over the
top. 50 weight is really thick, too. For summer usage, I'd never use
anything heavier than 40 weight and in winter.... especially where you
are, something like a 5W-30. I've never used 60 weight in anything
other than a large radial aircraft engine.... or perhaps in a Shay....
but that is another subject altogether...


Think of it this way: oil is meant to lubricate, cool, clean, seal,
prevent corrosion, and cushion. If you can tell an appreciable
difference in performance when significantly increasing viscosity,
then I suspect you are experiencing an enhancement of the "cushion"
effect and IMHO that likely indicates excessive oil clearances in the
design parameters of the engine....

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

Motor oil opnions
 

wrote:
I'm really not sure if the synthetic oil has to contribute to the
quietness of the engine.

maybe so.

I've always been leary of using a synthetic, because I don't have new
engines for one. and I've known of people to change to synthetic on
older vehicles with 90+ thousand miles, then complain because the
bearings are hammered out of the engine. I've always copnsidered that
the reason why is because with bearings with high milage already
"broken in" that they have an excess clearence in the tolorances, which
is fine with a 10 and even 5W motor oil, but when you throw in
synthetic, which initially is thinner than ATF, or water, the viscosity
isn't really changed with heat, but there is less oil pressure because
of the tolorances being opened up so the oil pressure drops.

Thats my view.


This is from a website called Motor Oil Myths and Facts here is the
URL:

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm

One of the myths:

Thicker is Better Myth
The reason that oil viscosities have gotten thinner is because bearing
clearances have become smaller. Using thicker oils will interfere with
oil flow and the oil pressure will increase. In a worn engine it may be
okay to increase the viscosity of the oil because the bearing
clearances have become larger.

Anyway, pretty good site!

Motor oil opnions
 

I think a few poeple with high performance boat engines, like
supercharged tall deck big blocks, have similar high clearances and run
50 or 60 wt racing oil. Then people think if it's good for a racing
engine then it should be good for me. Not considering that they have a
completely different engine.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 5 Jun 2006 20:03:26 -0700, wrote:

. Straight weight oils (even as thick as SAE 50) do not have the
?film strength? of multi-viscosity oils such as 5W-20, 5W-30, and
10W-30

This is opposite of what research I have done says and what I have
personally seen in aviation engines. Film strength of multi-viscosity
oils fails when the viscosity improvers fail under extreme pressure.
The oil molecules will re-link in the sump as they cool off, but the
damage to the metallic parts is done.

I would NEVER recommend multi-viscosity oils in extreme pressure
situations (barring really cold starts) and the valve train is a great
place to find such situations. I suspect the article's advice is
driven by people using way to thick an oil.... SAE 50 in an aircraft
engine is the standard... but then it has HUGE clearances compared to
a water cooled boat engine.

Motor oil opnions
 

Advertising of male-oriented products is pretty powerful, especially when
it's aimed at people who've been watching football and drinking beer all
afternoon.


"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
ups.com...
I think a few poeple with high performance boat engines, like
supercharged tall deck big blocks, have similar high clearances and run
50 or 60 wt racing oil. Then people think if it's good for a racing
engine then it should be good for me. Not considering that they have a
completely different engine.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 5 Jun 2006 20:03:26 -0700, wrote:

. Straight weight oils (even as thick as SAE 50) do not have the
?film strength? of multi-viscosity oils such as 5W-20, 5W-30, and
10W-30

This is opposite of what research I have done says and what I have
personally seen in aviation engines. Film strength of multi-viscosity
oils fails when the viscosity improvers fail under extreme pressure.
The oil molecules will re-link in the sump as they cool off, but the
damage to the metallic parts is done.

I would NEVER recommend multi-viscosity oils in extreme pressure
situations (barring really cold starts) and the valve train is a great
place to find such situations. I suspect the article's advice is
driven by people using way to thick an oil.... SAE 50 in an aircraft
engine is the standard... but then it has HUGE clearances compared to
a water cooled boat engine.

Motor oil opnions
 

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 5 Jun 2006 20:03:26 -0700, wrote:

. Straight weight oils (even as thick as SAE 50) do not have the
?film strength? of multi-viscosity oils such as 5W-20, 5W-30, and
10W-30

This is opposite of what research I have done says and what I have
personally seen in aviation engines. Film strength of multi-viscosity
oils fails when the viscosity improvers fail under extreme pressure.
The oil molecules will re-link in the sump as they cool off, but the
damage to the metallic parts is done.

I would NEVER recommend multi-viscosity oils in extreme pressure
situations (barring really cold starts) and the valve train is a great
place to find such situations. I suspect the article's advice is
driven by people using way to thick an oil.... SAE 50 in an aircraft
engine is the standard... but then it has HUGE clearances compared to
a water cooled boat engine.

One thing about multi viscosity numbers is that in a 10W-30 for
instance, the 10 doesn't correspond to any temperature! It only means
that the oil will flow when cold like a straight 10W will. The 30 on
the other hand, means that the oil will act like a straight 30W at a
given temperature, which is 212F.