|
Motor oil opnions
Hi guys thanks for all the advice
posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m |
Motor oil opnions
I use the multi grade 10-40 HD oil. Usually labeled for Trucks or
4x4s. I only boat in warm weather. wrote: In my GM 140 (3.0) I use Havaline 15-40 That's the same stuff that was recomended in the Mustang 5.0 H.O. engines. I've used it for quite a while. I know there's probably better oils out there, but theres lesser oils too. Big gus wrote: Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m |
Motor oil opnions
"Big gus" wrote in message
... Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m What does your engine manufacturer recommend? If cars are any sort of analogy, I've heard some interesting stories from my mechanic about people who used 50W "cause mah daddy said it wuz a good idea", only to find out that there was a good reason why the manufacturer specified 5W30. "Good reason" can mean an engine that's old before its time. |
Motor oil opnions
Big gus wrote:
Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m For the rather minimal cost, & maximum protection, I use 5W-30 or 10W-30 Mobil 1 synthetic in the inboard. That engine is as clean as a whistle and extremely quiet - the loudest noise with the exhaust under water is a tie, with the belts going around the pullies, or the bubbles at the transom. Rob |
Motor oil opnions
I agree about the single viscosty but it's just hard to find good
single grade oil at the local discount stores like wally world. And no one recommends single viscosity in your car for summer. Even though you will change it again before winter. On the water issue I am skeptical that "marine" oils have anything specific in them to improve their ability to deal with water. Water and oil don't mix and you don't want them to mix. Motor oil does not "attract" water like brake fluid does. Beat them together for a while and you get a nasty white mixture that is not good for lubricating. I'll have to hear some details before I believe this one. Gene Kearns wrote: On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:19:08 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m Marine grade oils are formulated for a damp environment. Not a bad idea. Using a straight weight oil in warm climates is probably preferable to a multi viscosity oil. If you don't need cold weather starting formulation, why give up superior EP lubricity? Before you feel the need to give the dry start lecture, consider that the first number in a multi-viscosity oil has nothing to do with viscosity. If it did, there wouldn't be any 0W-40 oils... which there are. IMHO, synthetics are preferable. Modern engines are built with such tight tolerances, using a thick oil probably does more harm than good. |
Motor oil opnions
"Gene Kearns" wrote Marine grade oils are formulated for a damp environment. Not a bad idea. Using a straight weight oil in warm climates is probably preferable to a multi viscosity oil. If you don't need cold weather starting formulation, why give up superior EP lubricity? Before you feel the need to give the dry start lecture, consider that the first number in a multi-viscosity oil has nothing to do with viscosity. If it did, there wouldn't be any 0W-40 oils... which there are. IMHO, synthetics are preferable. Modern engines are built with such tight tolerances, using a thick oil probably does more harm than good. I'd use multiweights on any reasonably modern water cooled gasoline engine. Have not yet become a user of synthetics. Tend to change oil more by date than hours. Twice a year for cars and boats. Believe strongly in changing oil filters with each oil change and sometimes wonder if more often might be better. Starts, condensation, and poor oil circulation are probably greater concern than viscosity breakdown for marine engines. 360,000 km so far on Chev Blazer V6, too soon to conclude about old 165 Merc I/O. Used to put 50W into old British motorcycles, but they never ran enough to test longevity. surfnturf surfnturf |
Motor oil opnions
jamesgangnc wrote: I agree about the single viscosty but it's just hard to find good single grade oil at the local discount stores like wally world. And no one recommends single viscosity in your car for summer. Even though you will change it again before winter. On the water issue I am skeptical that "marine" oils have anything specific in them to improve their ability to deal with water. Water and oil don't mix and you don't want them to mix. Motor oil does not "attract" water like brake fluid does. Beat them together for a while and you get a nasty white mixture that is not good for lubricating. I'll have to hear some details before I believe this one. Gene Kearns wrote: On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:19:08 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m Marine grade oils are formulated for a damp environment. Not a bad idea. Using a straight weight oil in warm climates is probably preferable to a multi viscosity oil. If you don't need cold weather starting formulation, why give up superior EP lubricity? Before you feel the need to give the dry start lecture, consider that the first number in a multi-viscosity oil has nothing to do with viscosity. If it did, there wouldn't be any 0W-40 oils... which there are. IMHO, synthetics are preferable. Modern engines are built with such tight tolerances, using a thick oil probably does more harm than good. From what I've gleaned looking into this, is that they do actually handle moisture better. One thing that keeps coming up is that they typically have no chlorine in them, and that the additives in oil break down and change because of moisture, and these marine oils are more stable if they get moisture. |
Motor oil opnions
For diesel engines, it's tough to beat Delo 100 or Delo 400. I use a single weight oil (30), because it's almost never colder than 50 degrees in the engine room when I start my boat. I also want as much "oil" in my oil as possible, not all the parrafins and other junk they add to runny, low viscosity oil to make "multigrade". If you get lazy about following the recommended oil change intervals, it's a bad idea to use a multigrade. All the viscosity improvers break down over a period of time, and you are then left with only the lowest number on a multi-grade oil. Pull the dip stick on an engine that has gone way too long without an oil change at the black goo runs off like dirty water. But always follow the mfgr recommendation. If the builder says to use a multi, use a multi- but be sure you also follow the recommended change intervals or change even more frequently. |
Motor oil opnions
|
Motor oil opnions
Gene Kearns wrote: On 5 Jun 2006 09:33:12 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: Paraffin occurs naturally to some extent in oil. My uncle was an aviation machinist and being before they added alot of junk to oil, new the differences in amounts of paraffin in California, Texas, and Penn. crude There are two types of crudes: naphthenic and paraffinic. Naphthenic crudes contain very little paraffin. Paraffinic crudes have most of the paraffin removed in a de-waxing process. True, however, there is still paraffin in naphthenic crude. But not in amounts significant to have to take out. Pennsylvania crude has a lot of paraffin in it, for one. There are many, many types of crude from around the world, all of them are different. Aviation oils designed for recip. engines have very few additives... , they don't even contain detergents, relying on an ashless dispersant package.... That's why in the '40's they were quite worried about where the crude came from because of it's content. |
Motor oil opnions
"basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... Gene Kearns wrote: On 5 Jun 2006 09:33:12 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: Paraffin occurs naturally to some extent in oil. My uncle was an aviation machinist and being before they added alot of junk to oil, new the differences in amounts of paraffin in California, Texas, and Penn. crude There are two types of crudes: naphthenic and paraffinic. Naphthenic crudes contain very little paraffin. Paraffinic crudes have most of the paraffin removed in a de-waxing process. True, however, there is still paraffin in naphthenic crude. But not in amounts significant to have to take out. Pennsylvania crude has a lot of paraffin in it, for one. There are many, many types of crude from around the world, all of them are different. Aviation oils designed for recip. engines have very few additives... , they don't even contain detergents, relying on an ashless dispersant package.... That's why in the '40's they were quite worried about where the crude came from because of it's content. But there are some zinc compounds added for rust prevention. |
Motor oil opnions
Calif Bill wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... Gene Kearns wrote: On 5 Jun 2006 09:33:12 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: Paraffin occurs naturally to some extent in oil. My uncle was an aviation machinist and being before they added alot of junk to oil, new the differences in amounts of paraffin in California, Texas, and Penn. crude There are two types of crudes: naphthenic and paraffinic. Naphthenic crudes contain very little paraffin. Paraffinic crudes have most of the paraffin removed in a de-waxing process. True, however, there is still paraffin in naphthenic crude. But not in amounts significant to have to take out. Pennsylvania crude has a lot of paraffin in it, for one. There are many, many types of crude from around the world, all of them are different. Aviation oils designed for recip. engines have very few additives... , they don't even contain detergents, relying on an ashless dispersant package.... That's why in the '40's they were quite worried about where the crude came from because of it's content. But there are some zinc compounds added for rust prevention. I'm sure that today there are "blends". |
Motor oil opnions
I'm really not sure if the synthetic oil has to contribute to the
quietness of the engine. maybe so. I've always been leary of using a synthetic, because I don't have new engines for one. and I've known of people to change to synthetic on older vehicles with 90+ thousand miles, then complain because the bearings are hammered out of the engine. I've always copnsidered that the reason why is because with bearings with high milage already "broken in" that they have an excess clearence in the tolorances, which is fine with a 10 and even 5W motor oil, but when you throw in synthetic, which initially is thinner than ATF, or water, the viscosity isn't really changed with heat, but there is less oil pressure because of the tolorances being opened up so the oil pressure drops. Thats my view. trainfan1 wrote: Big gus wrote: Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m For the rather minimal cost, & maximum protection, I use 5W-30 or 10W-30 Mobil 1 synthetic in the inboard. That engine is as clean as a whistle and extremely quiet - the loudest noise with the exhaust under water is a tie, with the belts going around the pullies, or the bubbles at the transom. Rob |
Motor oil opnions
I forgot to add, that my Brother -in-law has bought several corvettes
in the last 10 years and they have come factory with Mobile 1. But those are brand new engines. If I put a Brand new or high quality reman in my boat, I'd probably use Mobile 1 or Amzoil, but until then......... wrote: I'm really not sure if the synthetic oil has to contribute to the quietness of the engine. maybe so. I've always been leary of using a synthetic, because I don't have new engines for one. and I've known of people to change to synthetic on older vehicles with 90+ thousand miles, then complain because the bearings are hammered out of the engine. I've always copnsidered that the reason why is because with bearings with high milage already "broken in" that they have an excess clearence in the tolorances, which is fine with a 10 and even 5W motor oil, but when you throw in synthetic, which initially is thinner than ATF, or water, the viscosity isn't really changed with heat, but there is less oil pressure because of the tolorances being opened up so the oil pressure drops. Thats my view. trainfan1 wrote: Big gus wrote: Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m For the rather minimal cost, & maximum protection, I use 5W-30 or 10W-30 Mobil 1 synthetic in the inboard. That engine is as clean as a whistle and extremely quiet - the loudest noise with the exhaust under water is a tie, with the belts going around the pullies, or the bubbles at the transom. Rob |
Motor oil opnions
WOW what a discussion.
after reading all the posts I guess I should clarify my question The engines a 502 Merc inboards, not V-drives I was wondering if anyone had been uses something like Valvoline 50 weight racing oil. When I switched my Crusader 454's from the 25W-40 marine oil to Valvoline 60 weight, per advice of a 30 year marine mechanic, the boat ran 100% better. Now I have newer boat with engines that were rebuilt in 94, I am trying Valvoline strait weight 50 racing oil. I boat in Cleveland ohio on lake erie. I WILL not "winterize" the boat with that oil, but its full blown summer here and I just changed the "winterized" oil with the strait weight Valvoline. Thanks for all the advice On 5 Jun 2006 13:15:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: Calif Bill wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... Gene Kearns wrote: On 5 Jun 2006 09:33:12 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: Paraffin occurs naturally to some extent in oil. My uncle was an aviation machinist and being before they added alot of junk to oil, new the differences in amounts of paraffin in California, Texas, and Penn. crude There are two types of crudes: naphthenic and paraffinic. Naphthenic crudes contain very little paraffin. Paraffinic crudes have most of the paraffin removed in a de-waxing process. True, however, there is still paraffin in naphthenic crude. But not in amounts significant to have to take out. Pennsylvania crude has a lot of paraffin in it, for one. There are many, many types of crude from around the world, all of them are different. Aviation oils designed for recip. engines have very few additives... , they don't even contain detergents, relying on an ashless dispersant package.... That's why in the '40's they were quite worried about where the crude came from because of it's content. But there are some zinc compounds added for rust prevention. I'm sure that today there are "blends". |
Motor oil opnions
I pulled this from the Crane Camshaft website (I don't knwo what all
the question marks are about) http://www.cranecams.com/?show=newsLetters&no=120 Oil Recommendations for Hydraulic Roller Lifters At Crane, we are extremely proud of the success of our ?billet-steel bodied? hydraulic roller lifters. They permit faster opening rates, higher usable lifts, and can withstand more spring force than any other hydraulic roller lifter on the market. Warranty issues have been extremely rare, but two problems areas have been the cause of most problems. Dirt and contaminants in the oil, causing the inner plunger to stick, is the most common cause of ?noisy? or ?ticking? lifters. It is critical that engine components be properly cleaned prior to assembly. Also, quality oil filters and timely oil changes (especially after long storage periods) are essential to keeping the contaminants out of the lifters. Wrong weight of oil - Hydraulic lifters have an internal operating clearance of approximately .00015? - .00035?. This is in the range of 1/10th to 1/20th of the thickness of a human hair. Thick oils (SAE 30 and higher) can cause many problems in hydraulic lifters. Thicker oil slows the ?bleed-down? rate and contributes to lifter ?pump-up.? Old thick oil can cause the plungers to stick and act as if the lifter has ?collapsed.? Thicker oils flow much more slowly through a cold engine, so frequent cold starts result in vastly increased engine component wear. Straight weight oils (even as thick as SAE 50) do not have the ?film strength? of multi-viscosity oils such as 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30, so with the extreme opening rates available to roller cams, straight weight oil films can start to break down. It is this last point (the tremendous film strength of multi viscosity oils as compared to ?racing? oils) that fools many ?old timers? who think that traditional thick, straight weight oils are best for performance applications. Crane R&D strongly recommends the use of multi-viscosity oils in all hydraulic roller lifters. Our tests have consistently shown a 3-5 HP increase throughout the RPM range when compared to straight weight oils. In addition, we have never experienced a component failure due to ?thin,? multi-viscosity. NOTE: exotic fuels (alcohol, nitromethane, etc.) require special lubricants for which most multi-viscosity oils are not qualified. Gene Kearns wrote: On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 20:39:54 -0400, Big gus penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: WOW what a discussion. after reading all the posts I guess I should clarify my question The engines a 502 Merc inboards, not V-drives I was wondering if anyone had been uses something like Valvoline 50 weight racing oil. When I switched my Crusader 454's from the 25W-40 marine oil to Valvoline 60 weight, per advice of a 30 year marine mechanic, the boat ran 100% better. Now I have newer boat with engines that were rebuilt in 94, I am trying Valvoline strait weight 50 racing oil. I boat in Cleveland ohio on lake erie. I WILL not "winterize" the boat with that oil, but its full blown summer here and I just changed the "winterized" oil with the strait weight Valvoline. Thanks for all the advice Wow..... I'd be afraid of 60 weight oil..... that is really over the top. 50 weight is really thick, too. For summer usage, I'd never use anything heavier than 40 weight and in winter.... especially where you are, something like a 5W-30. I've never used 60 weight in anything other than a large radial aircraft engine.... or perhaps in a Shay.... but that is another subject altogether... Think of it this way: oil is meant to lubricate, cool, clean, seal, prevent corrosion, and cushion. If you can tell an appreciable difference in performance when significantly increasing viscosity, then I suspect you are experiencing an enhancement of the "cushion" effect and IMHO that likely indicates excessive oil clearances in the design parameters of the engine.... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats |
Motor oil opnions
I think a few poeple with high performance boat engines, like
supercharged tall deck big blocks, have similar high clearances and run 50 or 60 wt racing oil. Then people think if it's good for a racing engine then it should be good for me. Not considering that they have a completely different engine. Gene Kearns wrote: On 5 Jun 2006 20:03:26 -0700, wrote: . Straight weight oils (even as thick as SAE 50) do not have the ?film strength? of multi-viscosity oils such as 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 This is opposite of what research I have done says and what I have personally seen in aviation engines. Film strength of multi-viscosity oils fails when the viscosity improvers fail under extreme pressure. The oil molecules will re-link in the sump as they cool off, but the damage to the metallic parts is done. I would NEVER recommend multi-viscosity oils in extreme pressure situations (barring really cold starts) and the valve train is a great place to find such situations. I suspect the article's advice is driven by people using way to thick an oil.... SAE 50 in an aircraft engine is the standard... but then it has HUGE clearances compared to a water cooled boat engine. |
Motor oil opnions
Advertising of male-oriented products is pretty powerful, especially when
it's aimed at people who've been watching football and drinking beer all afternoon. "jamesgangnc" wrote in message ups.com... I think a few poeple with high performance boat engines, like supercharged tall deck big blocks, have similar high clearances and run 50 or 60 wt racing oil. Then people think if it's good for a racing engine then it should be good for me. Not considering that they have a completely different engine. Gene Kearns wrote: On 5 Jun 2006 20:03:26 -0700, wrote: . Straight weight oils (even as thick as SAE 50) do not have the ?film strength? of multi-viscosity oils such as 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 This is opposite of what research I have done says and what I have personally seen in aviation engines. Film strength of multi-viscosity oils fails when the viscosity improvers fail under extreme pressure. The oil molecules will re-link in the sump as they cool off, but the damage to the metallic parts is done. I would NEVER recommend multi-viscosity oils in extreme pressure situations (barring really cold starts) and the valve train is a great place to find such situations. I suspect the article's advice is driven by people using way to thick an oil.... SAE 50 in an aircraft engine is the standard... but then it has HUGE clearances compared to a water cooled boat engine. |
Motor oil opnions
Gene Kearns wrote: On 5 Jun 2006 20:03:26 -0700, wrote: . Straight weight oils (even as thick as SAE 50) do not have the ?film strength? of multi-viscosity oils such as 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 This is opposite of what research I have done says and what I have personally seen in aviation engines. Film strength of multi-viscosity oils fails when the viscosity improvers fail under extreme pressure. The oil molecules will re-link in the sump as they cool off, but the damage to the metallic parts is done. I would NEVER recommend multi-viscosity oils in extreme pressure situations (barring really cold starts) and the valve train is a great place to find such situations. I suspect the article's advice is driven by people using way to thick an oil.... SAE 50 in an aircraft engine is the standard... but then it has HUGE clearances compared to a water cooled boat engine. One thing about multi viscosity numbers is that in a 10W-30 for instance, the 10 doesn't correspond to any temperature! It only means that the oil will flow when cold like a straight 10W will. The 30 on the other hand, means that the oil will act like a straight 30W at a given temperature, which is 212F. |
Motor oil opnions
Mys Terry wrote: On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 15:07:15 GMT, Gene Kearns wrote: On 6 Jun 2006 07:21:41 -0700, "basskisser" wrote: One thing about multi viscosity numbers is that in a 10W-30 for instance, the 10 doesn't correspond to any temperature! It only means that the oil will flow when cold like a straight 10W will. The 30 on the other hand, means that the oil will act like a straight 30W at a given temperature, which is 212F. The above is the oral tradition carried on, but is totally incorrect. For starters see: http://www.texacoxpresslube.com/carc...viscosity.html From the link you gave: The reason we have both single grade and multigrade oils is largely historical. The earliest engine oils were all non-W single grades, but as the requirement for oils to work well under both low and high temperatures evolved, W grades and multigrades emerged. In terms of viscosity, the biggest difference between a multigrade and a single grade is that the multigrade must not become too viscous at low temperatures, while still meeting the requirements of its high temperature grade - in other words, multigrades exhibit less viscosity change with temperature than most single grades. Thus, a typical 5W-30 motor oil has the same approximate kinematic viscosity as a SAE 30 grade oil at 100 ° C, but it's viscosity at very low temperatures, while thicker than when hot, is much less than the 30 grade. This is achieved by formulating multigrades with a higher Viscosity Index than typical for single grades. So, while a 5W-30 oil will allow a modern car to start at temperatures as low as -30 ° C, the typical SAE 30 oil would be too thick to either crank or pump at that temperature. Sounds like the oral tradition is also the facts! That's why I'm confused! Gene's sharp on this subject, I'm sure he'll clarify. |
Motor oil opinions
I have used synthetic oils exclusively in everything from my outboard
(synth 2-stroke) to my Volvo (300,000+miles) to my Dodge Cummins Diesel (290,000+mi) and finally my Honda mini van (187,000+mi) all with original engines - none of them burn oil and all have near-original compression. The ONLY problem with using a synthetic in an older engine is that between the oil's detergent/cleaning capabilities and slightly lower viscosity, if the engine is prone to leak oil, it will. I figure if my engine leaks oil, I need to fix the leak and I don't mind if the crankcase gets cleaner. With synthetic oil, ALL my engines and transmissions (I use synthetic transmission fluid or gear lube as the case may be) run measurably cooler. Cooler means less friction and better oil flow (better flow spreads the heat around where it can cool more efficiently.) I have only had good results with synthetic oil and from what I have both read and experienced, it is far superior to Dino oil. Tests have shown that synthetic oil does not break down nearly as fast and if kept clean will far outlast other lubricants. My dad always taught me that keeping the oil clean is equally as important as which oil you choose you use to lubricate the engine with. I use remote dual oil filters on all my engines, all with outstanding results. Dad always said it's cheaper to replace a filter than to replace a set of bearings. I think he was right, although now I don't change the oil as often as I do filters, since I have seen convincing evidence that synthetic engine oil can/will last 12,000 miles or more. I change mine every 6,000 miles which lets me sleep at night. I change filters every 3,000. I have friends and relatives that have adopted the same procedure all with the same excellent results. That's my experience, your mileage may vary. Jeff jamesgangnc wrote: I think a few people with high performance boat engines, like supercharged tall deck big blocks, have similar high clearances and run 50 or 60 wt racing oil. Then people think if it's good for a racing engine then it should be good for me. Not considering that they have a completely different engine. Gene Kearns wrote: On 5 Jun 2006 20:03:26 -0700, wrote: . Straight weight oils (even as thick as SAE 50) do not have the ?film strength? of multi-viscosity oils such as 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 This is opposite of what research I have done says and what I have personally seen in aviation engines. Film strength of multi-viscosity oils fails when the viscosity improver's fail under extreme pressure. The oil molecules will re-link in the sump as they cool off, but the damage to the metallic parts is done. I would NEVER recommend multi-viscosity oils in extreme pressure situations (barring really cold starts) and the valve train is a great place to find such situations. I suspect the article's advice is driven by people using way to thick an oil.... SAE 50 in an aircraft engine is the standard... but then it has HUGE clearances compared to a water cooled boat engine. |
Motor oil opinions
Back in my younger days I rode dirt bikes competitively (and now I am
paying for that physically!) running "Enduros" and other long-distance (500 + mi.) rugged races. I rode in the open class (500cc or larger.) Anyway, I started using synthetic oil (I mixed my own, disabled the oil injection system) and had nothing but excellent results. One thing all of us had problems with was fouled plugs -for a number of reasons related to the kind of running we did. Synthetic oil simply stopped that problem. I also noticed that the engine ran cooler overall (not a giant difference, I was using high-quality Dino-oil to begin with) but more importantly I didn't have ANY scoring on the cylinder walls after making the switch. Previously it was fairly common after a long, hard race to observe some scoring on the cyl. walls and pitting on the piston top. We did a tear-down after every race so it was easy to see the difference. As for the quality of synthetics under heat/pressure in high stress points like tappets or cams, I have been told that's not true. I don't know... I can only go by what I personally observe and my engines are as tight as they were when I bought them. If synthetic failed under high pressure as you suggested, then it seems to me that many people who use synthetic oils exclusively (like me) would have failures (or unusual wear) particular to those parts, however that doesn't seem to be the case. Jeff Gene Kearns wrote: On 6 Jun 2006 11:31:59 -0700, "Chehalis Jeff" wrote: I have used synthetic oils exclusively in everything from my outboard (synth 2-stroke) to my Volvo (300,000+miles) to my Dodge Cummins Diesel (290,000+mi) and finally my Honda mini van (187,000+mi) all with original engines - none of them burn oil and all have near-original compression. The ONLY problem with using a synthetic in an older engine is that between the oil's detergent/cleaning capabilities and slightly lower viscosity, if the engine is prone to leak oil, it will. I figure if my engine leaks oil, I need to fix the leak and I don't mind if the crankcase gets cleaner. With synthetic oil, ALL my engines and transmissions I have had excellent service out of synthetic oils, too. The only disaster I have seen directly attributable to synthetics is their use in high performance air cooled engines. Under high temperatures, the oil loses it's EP properties and fails at high pressure points like cam and tappets. Recip. aircraft oils are now either straight dino oil or a synthetic/dino mix. Interestingly, I wanted to use synthetics in my Suzuki outboards and was advised by the manufacturer not to do so. When I questioned this surprising position I was told that they couldn't recommend synthetics merely because they were untested by the manufacturer. |
Motor oil opnions
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
... On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:07:23 GMT, Mys Terry penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:43:28 GMT, Gene Kearns wrote: On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 15:30:26 GMT, Mys Terry wrote: From the link you gave: The reason we have both single grade and multigrade oils is largely historical. The earliest engine oils were all non-W single grades, but as the requirement for oils to work well under both low and high temperatures evolved, W grades and multigrades emerged. In terms of viscosity, the biggest difference between a multigrade and a single grade is that the multigrade must not become too viscous at low temperatures, while still meeting the requirements of its high temperature grade - in other words, multigrades exhibit less viscosity change with temperature than most single grades. Thus, a typical 5W-30 motor oil has the same approximate kinematic viscosity as a SAE 30 grade oil at 100 ° C, but it's viscosity at very low temperatures, while thicker than when hot, is much less than the 30 grade. This is achieved by formulating multigrades with a higher Viscosity Index than typical for single grades. So, while a 5W-30 oil will allow a modern car to start at temperatures as low as -30 ° C, the typical SAE 30 oil would be too thick to either crank or pump at that temperature. Sounds like the oral tradition is also the facts! Really? Show me where it says 0W-40 oil acts like 0 weight (no viscosity?) oil when cold and 40 weight oil when hot...... Answer: 10W-30 does NOT become 10 weight oil when cold and 30 weight oil when hot...... Turn your binoculars around the other way, Gene. 10W-30 performs like 10 weight when it is cold, and as it gets hotter, it doesn't thin out as much as straight 10 would. When it's at 100C it is about the same viscosity that straight 30 would be at that temp. "multigrades exhibit less viscosity change with temperature than most single grades." Ok, I can see that you wish to believe that "10W-30 performs like 10 weight when it is cold, and as it gets hotter, it doesn't thin out as much as straight 10 would. When it's at 100C it is about the same viscosity that straight 30 would be at that temp." That certainly is your right... but if you spend as much time reading on the subject as I have.... you'll see things differently. 10W-30 behaves exactly like extra virgin olive oil. Mah daddy done said so. |
Motor oil opinions
As a pilot and previous aircraft owner (1969 Beechcraft A36) I am well
aware of the Mobile AV-1 debacle. The problem with AV-1 was apparently a chemical compatibility problem that only applied to AV-1 that caused sludge buildup, thereby drastically reducing the oil's ability to lubricate. In cases where AV-1 caused damage, it had little to do with tappets or cam bearing surfaces in particular, it was spun crank bearings, cylinder wall damage - big problems. If you recall, Mobile-1 (and Mobile AV-1) wasn't a fully synthetic oil in their first formulations. Mobile-1 is a different animal now and is fully synthetic. I would think if the same problem(s) existed in Mobile-1 or any other synthetic oil, they would be pulled off the market or the manufacturers would be sued (like the AV-1 issue) or both. I haven't seen that happen, in fact more and more major oil companies are formulating better and better synthetics, all of which outperform mineral/petroleum oils. I don't have anything against Mobile-1 or any other fully synthetic major brand, however I choose to use only AMSOil or RedLine Synthetics. The API tests speak for themselves. That's my 2 cents worth anyway. Jeff Gene Kearns wrote: On 6 Jun 2006 12:22:27 -0700, Chehalis Jeff penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: As for the quality of synthetics under heat/pressure in high stress points like tappets or cams, I have been told that's not true. I don't know... If interested, check out the story of Mobil AV-1. The FAA rescinded the approval for use (STC) of that lubricant due to engine failures. There was also a huge class action lawsuit and settlement. -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats |
Motor oil opnions
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:19:08 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m Marine grade oils are formulated for a damp environment. Not a bad idea. How does a marine grade better protect in on the water than a standard grade? Using a straight weight oil in warm climates is probably preferable to a multi viscosity oil. Volvo Penta recommends a SAE 15W-50 API SG multigrade (natural or synthetic). I had always thought a straight 30W was preferable. What are your thoughts Gene? |
Motor oil opnions
" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message . .. "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:19:08 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m Marine grade oils are formulated for a damp environment. Not a bad idea. How does a marine grade better protect in on the water than a standard grade? Using a straight weight oil in warm climates is probably preferable to a multi viscosity oil. Volvo Penta recommends a SAE 15W-50 API SG multigrade (natural or synthetic). I had always thought a straight 30W was preferable. What are your thoughts Gene? What is your "I had always thought" based on? |
Motor oil opnions
On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 20:39:54 -0400, Big gus
wrote: WOW what a discussion. after reading all the posts I guess I should clarify my question The engines a 502 Merc inboards, not V-drives I was wondering if anyone had been uses something like Valvoline 50 weight racing oil. When I switched my Crusader 454's from the 25W-40 marine oil to Valvoline 60 weight, per advice of a 30 year marine mechanic, the boat ran 100% better. Now I have newer boat with engines that were rebuilt in 94, I am trying Valvoline strait weight 50 racing oil. I boat in Cleveland ohio on lake erie. I WILL not "winterize" the boat with that oil, but its full blown summer here and I just changed the "winterized" oil with the strait weight Valvoline. Thanks for all the advice I'd be leary of using oil that thick. Great for racers who pre-heat the oil to operating temp before starting the engine. Not so great for cold-start conditions. At one time I used 50w oil in my 4-cyl Isuzu PUP but I was crawling at 5 MPH through the Mojave desert for weeks at a time with no wind through the radiator. You might look at rebuilding your engine if it takes 50w or 60w oil to make it run well. Mark E. Williams |
Motor oil opnions
Mercury's oil is 25-40 and doesn't have viscosity improving additives... so
I'm told. $25 of oil is a lot cheaper than a $4000+ engine replacement. That's my 3 cents! "Big gus" wrote in message ... Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m |
Motor oil opinions
Hi Gene... well thought out replies, indeed. Just for some final
clarification, here are some things I can say to back up my statements. I didn't say AV-1 didn't damage cam lobes or tappets... what I did say was that wasn't the only problem _in particular_, but that AV-1 apparently caused even bigger damage in areas not under direct constant pressure. There are still different opinions as to what actually was the problem with AV-1 (Mobile Oil won't say...but I think they know.) As for Mobile AV-1 being "100% synthetic"... yes, that's what Mobile Oil advertised. However, while Mobile AV-1 and Mobile-1 (pre-1992) said they were "100% synthetic", that was with an asterisk: "*exclusive of carrier oil." They indeed had, by Mobile oil's own admission up to 19% petroleum-based a"carrier oil." 81% synthetic ain't 100%, even 95% isn't (not in my book anyway.) 100% is 100%, right? Now if I remember right, AMSOil was challenged by Mobile oil when AMSOil claimed Mobile-1 wasn't "really 100% synthetic" ... well the upshot of that conflict was that Mobile Oil withdrew the legal challenge and changed their formula to eliminate petroleum-based additives, thus making it truly a "100% synthetic lubricant" (as of 1992 sometime.) I also remember the FTC being involved. Notably, neither SAE or API have a clear definition for what "synthetic" oil is. Some say it is simply a marketing term. I go by my own experience, results, some of what I hear from people I know and trust and my gut. I would suggest you try ONE oil change with AMSOil Formula 4 or Red Line Racing Oil. Pay attention to temperature readings, top speed and overall smoothness of idle. Maybe it's all in my head, but I sure think it makes a difference that I could tell right away. I would not recommend Mobile-1 anywhere except in your personal automobile engine. If you had 2-stroker smokers as I do, I would recommend either the AMSOil Saber Outboard or Red Line's Watercraft Oil. Finally, I agree with you about AMSOil's advertised API tests... they show what they want you to see. I wouldn't put my faith in what any website says, rather see what works for you. Give it a try... just not in your aircraft engine. Yet. Jeff Gene Kearns wrote: On 6 Jun 2006 15:29:34 -0700, Chehalis Jeff penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: As a pilot and previous aircraft owner (1969 Beechcraft A36) I am well aware of the Mobile AV-1 debacle. The problem with AV-1 was apparently a chemical compatibility problem that only applied to AV-1 that caused sludge buildup, thereby drastically reducing the oil's ability to lubricate. In cases where AV-1 caused damage, it had little to do with tappets or cam bearing surfaces in particular, it was spun crank bearings, cylinder wall damage - big problems. It had plenty to do with tappets and cams... http://www.eaa49.av.org/techart/mobil01.htm If you recall, Mobile-1 (and Mobile AV-1) wasn't a fully synthetic oil in their first formulations. Mobil AV-1 WAS a fully synthetic oil. "Mobil introduced its 100% synthetic AV-1 piston aircraft engine oil with great ballyhoo in connection with the 1986 round-the-world Voyager flight. It went on the market in 1987, after five years of R&D and 25,000 hours of flight testing in 23 different aircraft.. " See: http://www.avweb.com/news/news/182891-1.html Mobile-1 is a different animal now and is fully synthetic. And isn't approved for use in aircraft... though I do admit it is a different animal and is my oil of choice in land based vehicles. I'm seriously considering using it in my outboards after the warranty period. I would think if the same problem(s) existed in Mobile-1 or any other synthetic oil, they would be pulled off the market or the manufacturers would be sued (like the AV-1 issue) or both. I haven't seen that happen, in fact more and more major oil companies are formulating better and better synthetics, all of which outperform mineral/petroleum oils. Well, the proof of this is that there are no fully synthetic oils on the aviation market.... only semi-synthetic. I don't have anything against Mobile-1 or any other fully synthetic major brand, however I choose to use only AMSOil or RedLine Synthetics. The API tests speak for themselves. I remain skeptic with respect to the selectivity of the AMSOil API tests. -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats |
Motor oil opnions
WOW and thanks for all the advice
another question lets say we are using strait weigh 50 in the engine this means it will be "50 weight" all the time Now.... let say we also got 20W-50 this means its 20 weight when its cold and 50 weight when its 100 degree Centigrade so .... dos this mean the strait weight 50 and the multi weight 50 are the same viscosity? ( given the multi weight is at 100 degrees?) On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:19:08 -0400, Big gus wrote: Hi guys thanks for all the advice posted in the past. well me and the guys at the maria were discussing oil. Some use "marine" grade while others do not Some use Valvoline strait 50 weigh "racing" oil was wonder what every ones thoughts were? Thanks m |
Motor oil opnions
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:10:56 -0400, Big gus wrote: WOW and thanks for all the advice another question lets say we are using strait weigh 50 in the engine this means it will be "50 weight" all the time Yes, but it will be thinner when hot than it is when it is cold. Now.... let say we also got 20W-50 this means its 20 weight when its cold and 50 weight when its 100 degree Centigrade so .... Your premise is erroneous..... You came here for help and I'd like to believe that you didn't fall into the trap of believing the uninformed foolishness some posters wrote here as truth. An expert on oil wrote the following: "Most people believe that a 5w30 oil is good for cold weather use because it is a "5 weight" oil in cold temperatures and a "30 weight" oil at high temperatures. On the surface this might seem to make a certain amount of sense. Naturally, a "5 weight" oil would flow better than a "30 weight" oil. This would make it ideal for cold temperature operation. Nevertheless, this is a profound misunderstanding of what the labeling means. The two numbers really have little to do with each other." (Quoted from following URL.) dos this mean the strait weight 50 and the multi weight 50 are the same viscosity? ( given the multi weight is at 100 degrees?) No. They would both have to be at the same temperature and would fall into the same viscosity range. Leaving that temperature.... their respective viscosities would diverge. If you want to know how oil *really* works, here is an easily accessible web document that, in non-technical terms, pretty thoroughly covers the subject. http://www.trustmymechanic.com/motor-oil-bible.pdf I read the explanation and it is double talk. In fact both numbers are classifications determined by viscosity, although the process is different. So a 5w30 meets the specs for both a 5w (cold measurement) and a 30 (hot measurement) which are both based on viscosity. So when cold it is like a 5w (not a 5 weight) oil and when hot it is like a 30 weight. Why he and you can't say that is beyond me. -- Del Cecchi "This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions, strategies or opinions.” |
Motor oil opnions
Gene, Of ocurse you don't hear of these weights much anymore but I
never could figure out oils like: 20w20w20w or, 5W10W20 Now 10w20 makes sense, but 20w10??? Gene Kearns wrote: On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 06:10:56 -0400, Big gus wrote: WOW and thanks for all the advice another question lets say we are using strait weigh 50 in the engine this means it will be "50 weight" all the time Yes, but it will be thinner when hot than it is when it is cold. Now.... let say we also got 20W-50 this means its 20 weight when its cold and 50 weight when its 100 degree Centigrade so .... Your premise is erroneous..... You came here for help and I'd like to believe that you didn't fall into the trap of believing the uninformed foolishness some posters wrote here as truth. An expert on oil wrote the following: "Most people believe that a 5w30 oil is good for cold weather use because it is a "5 weight" oil in cold temperatures and a "30 weight" oil at high temperatures. On the surface this might seem to make a certain amount of sense. Naturally, a "5 weight" oil would flow better than a "30 weight" oil. This would make it ideal for cold temperature operation. Nevertheless, this is a profound misunderstanding of what the labeling means. The two numbers really have little to do with each other." (Quoted from following URL.) dos this mean the strait weight 50 and the multi weight 50 are the same viscosity? ( given the multi weight is at 100 degrees?) No. They would both have to be at the same temperature and would fall into the same viscosity range. Leaving that temperature.... their respective viscosities would diverge. If you want to know how oil *really* works, here is an easily accessible web document that, in non-technical terms, pretty thoroughly covers the subject. http://www.trustmymechanic.com/motor-oil-bible.pdf |
Motor oil opnions
On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:50:21 -0500, Del Cecchi
wrote: So when cold it is like a 5w (not a 5 weight) oil and when hot it is like a 30 weight. Why he and you can't say that is beyond me. That is not how I read it. I believe they are saying that it "cranks" like a 5 weight but does not flow with the same viscosity. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:40 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com