JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JIMinFL wrote:

Chuck! Are you setting a good example with this psyco babble? It appears
as
if you are trolling for trolls. " Do as I say, not as I do" appears to
fit
here.

I plan to needle most everybody who tries to take this group back to
the mess it used to be.


If you look at some recent political threads they went along fine and were
quite civil until the NG's designated *sheriff* rode into town on his
painted pony and started making demands. The "More Meat for Whiners"
thread is a perfect example.

Just my $.02. ;-)


They all go along fine, until (something) happens. Doesn't matter what.
All kinds of things serve as an excuse for all hell to break loose. See
your 2 cents, raise you a nickel.

Half my kingdom to the guy or gal with a valid and convincing answer to
this question:

WHY do we need to drag politics, religion, etc etc etc through a
boating discussion group?

Notice the interrogatory: WHY?

(now, in the interest of full disclosure regarding my highly generous
offer- do note that is is for "half my kingdom" and there's a darn good
chance I'm not actually a king.) :-)

wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JIMinFL wrote:

Chuck! Are you setting a good example with this psyco babble? It
appears
as
if you are trolling for trolls. " Do as I say, not as I do" appears
to
fit
here.

I plan to needle most everybody who tries to take this group back to
the mess it used to be.


If you look at some recent political threads they went along fine and
were
quite civil until the NG's designated *sheriff* rode into town on his
painted pony and started making demands. The "More Meat for Whiners"
thread is a perfect example.

Just my $.02. ;-)


They all go along fine, until (something) happens. Doesn't matter what.
All kinds of things serve as an excuse for all hell to break loose. See
your 2 cents, raise you a nickel.

Replay most threads relating to Bayliner, SeaRay or other mass market boat
manufacturer and you will find your share of flaming and name calling. Yet
these were boating related threads. ;-)

Replay most of the recent political threads and you will find they did not
turn negative until a certain sheriff rode into town.

You live boating 24x7. That is not the makeup of this group. Back off and
relax Chuck. Just because the word "boat" is in the NG category does not
mean the word has to be included in each and every post here.

Go look at rec.boats.cruising and you will find a general range of topics
being discussed, normally at an adult level, and without some sheriff riding
in on his painted pony demanding the topic to be closed. ;-)

The bottom line is that the net copping is causing more problems here than
the political posts. And there is one person leading the posse riding a
painted pony causing most of them. ;-)

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JIMinFL wrote:

Chuck! Are you setting a good example with this psyco babble? It
appears
as
if you are trolling for trolls. " Do as I say, not as I do" appears
to
fit
here.

I plan to needle most everybody who tries to take this group back to
the mess it used to be.


If you look at some recent political threads they went along fine and
were
quite civil until the NG's designated *sheriff* rode into town on his
painted pony and started making demands. The "More Meat for Whiners"
thread is a perfect example.

Just my $.02. ;-)


They all go along fine, until (something) happens. Doesn't matter what.
All kinds of things serve as an excuse for all hell to break loose. See
your 2 cents, raise you a nickel.

Replay most threads relating to Bayliner, SeaRay or other mass market boat
manufacturer and you will find your share of flaming and name calling. Yet
these were boating related threads. ;-)

Replay most of the recent political threads and you will find they did not
turn negative until a certain sheriff rode into town.


Aren't we all ultimately responsible for our own behavior, regardless
of what somebody else might or might not do?

Who should we allow to dictate our behavior? To whom should we
surrender our right of
(and responsibility for) self control?

"He or she made me do it" didn't work 50 years ago when I was a kid. I
bet it isn't any more valid today.


You live boating 24x7. That is not the makeup of this group. Back off and
relax Chuck. Just because the word "boat" is in the NG category does not
mean the word has to be included in each and every post here.

Go look at rec.boats.cruising and you will find a general range of topics
being discussed, normally at an adult level, and without some sheriff riding
in on his painted pony demanding the topic to be closed. ;-)



Maybe rec.boats cruising is one of those groups where politics can be
civilly discussed.
In that case, great! There's no reason to discuss politics here if
there's a group that welcomes political discussion so very close by.

We disagree. You say, "This should be a free for all where we can
discuss any topic we choose to, and if things get ugly it will be
somebody else's fault." I say, "The group should discuss boating
related topics, and then things will be less likely to get ugly in the
first place." What do either of us have on our side except our own
opinions?

Your side: a group of guys who want to have a general chat room, love
to argue politics, and may or may not be interested all that much in
boating.

My side: a group of guys who wold prefer not to wade through tons ot OT
posts everyday and deal with the fallout from the ill feelings spawned
by the political brush wars screwing up the on-topic threads.

I guess the only thing on my side that isn't offset by something on
your side is the fact that
most people would think it rather reasonable to assume that a group
called rec.boats would be about boating.

If you're not about boating 24/7, then it woujld be better to spend a
proportionate amount of time in NG's actually established to cater to
your other interests, wouldn't it?







The bottom line is that the net copping is causing more problems here than
the political posts. And there is one person leading the posse riding a
painted pony causing most of them. ;-)

wrote in message
ups.com...

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JIMinFL wrote:

Chuck! Are you setting a good example with this psyco babble? It
appears
as
if you are trolling for trolls. " Do as I say, not as I do"
appears
to
fit
here.

I plan to needle most everybody who tries to take this group back to
the mess it used to be.


If you look at some recent political threads they went along fine and
were
quite civil until the NG's designated *sheriff* rode into town on his
painted pony and started making demands. The "More Meat for Whiners"
thread is a perfect example.

Just my $.02. ;-)


They all go along fine, until (something) happens. Doesn't matter what.
All kinds of things serve as an excuse for all hell to break loose. See
your 2 cents, raise you a nickel.

Replay most threads relating to Bayliner, SeaRay or other mass market
boat
manufacturer and you will find your share of flaming and name calling.
Yet
these were boating related threads. ;-)

Replay most of the recent political threads and you will find they did
not
turn negative until a certain sheriff rode into town.


Aren't we all ultimately responsible for our own behavior, regardless
of what somebody else might or might not do?

Yep. Yet I find you constantly blaming the authors of the thread for the
behavior of others.

Thanks for making a point I have been trying to make for several months.





Who should we allow to dictate our behavior? To whom should we
surrender our right of
(and responsibility for) self control?

"He or she made me do it" didn't work 50 years ago when I was a kid. I
bet it isn't any more valid today.


You live boating 24x7. That is not the makeup of this group. Back off
and
relax Chuck. Just because the word "boat" is in the NG category does not
mean the word has to be included in each and every post here.

Go look at rec.boats.cruising and you will find a general range of topics
being discussed, normally at an adult level, and without some sheriff
riding
in on his painted pony demanding the topic to be closed. ;-)



Maybe rec.boats cruising is one of those groups where politics can be
civilly discussed.
In that case, great! There's no reason to discuss politics here if
there's a group that welcomes political discussion so very close by.

We disagree. You say, "This should be a free for all where we can
discuss any topic we choose to, and if things get ugly it will be
somebody else's fault." I say, "The group should discuss boating
related topics, and then things will be less likely to get ugly in the
first place." What do either of us have on our side except our own
opinions?

Your side: a group of guys who want to have a general chat room, love
to argue politics, and may or may not be interested all that much in
boating.

My side: a group of guys who wold prefer not to wade through tons ot OT
posts everyday and deal with the fallout from the ill feelings spawned
by the political brush wars screwing up the on-topic threads.

I guess the only thing on my side that isn't offset by something on
your side is the fact that
most people would think it rather reasonable to assume that a group
called rec.boats would be about boating.

If you're not about boating 24/7, then it woujld be better to spend a
proportionate amount of time in NG's actually established to cater to
your other interests, wouldn't it?







The bottom line is that the net copping is causing more problems here
than
the political posts. And there is one person leading the posse riding a
painted pony causing most of them. ;-)

JimH wrote:


Aren't we all ultimately responsible for our own behavior, regardless
of what somebody else might or might not do?

Yep. Yet I find you constantly blaming the authors of the thread for the
behavior of others.

Thanks for making a point I have been trying to make for several months.


I blame the originators of OT threads for originating OT threads.
I would be fascinated to learn how their behavior is really somebody
elses' fault or responsibility.

On 24 May 2006 17:15:38 -0700, "
wrote:


JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JIMinFL wrote:

Chuck! Are you setting a good example with this psyco babble? It
appears
as
if you are trolling for trolls. " Do as I say, not as I do" appears
to
fit
here.

I plan to needle most everybody who tries to take this group back to
the mess it used to be.


If you look at some recent political threads they went along fine and
were
quite civil until the NG's designated *sheriff* rode into town on his
painted pony and started making demands. The "More Meat for Whiners"
thread is a perfect example.

Just my $.02. ;-)


They all go along fine, until (something) happens. Doesn't matter what.
All kinds of things serve as an excuse for all hell to break loose. See
your 2 cents, raise you a nickel.

Replay most threads relating to Bayliner, SeaRay or other mass market boat
manufacturer and you will find your share of flaming and name calling. Yet
these were boating related threads. ;-)

Replay most of the recent political threads and you will find they did not
turn negative until a certain sheriff rode into town.


Aren't we all ultimately responsible for our own behavior, regardless
of what somebody else might or might not do?

Who should we allow to dictate our behavior? To whom should we
surrender our right of
(and responsibility for) self control?

"He or she made me do it" didn't work 50 years ago when I was a kid. I
bet it isn't any more valid today.


You live boating 24x7. That is not the makeup of this group. Back off and
relax Chuck. Just because the word "boat" is in the NG category does not
mean the word has to be included in each and every post here.

Go look at rec.boats.cruising and you will find a general range of topics
being discussed, normally at an adult level, and without some sheriff riding
in on his painted pony demanding the topic to be closed. ;-)



Maybe rec.boats cruising is one of those groups where politics can be
civilly discussed.
In that case, great! There's no reason to discuss politics here if
there's a group that welcomes political discussion so very close by.

We disagree. You say, "This should be a free for all where we can
discuss any topic we choose to, and if things get ugly it will be
somebody else's fault." I say, "The group should discuss boating
related topics, and then things will be less likely to get ugly in the
first place." What do either of us have on our side except our own
opinions?

Your side: a group of guys who want to have a general chat room, love
to argue politics, and may or may not be interested all that much in
boating.

My side: a group of guys who wold prefer not to wade through tons ot OT
posts everyday and deal with the fallout from the ill feelings spawned
by the political brush wars screwing up the on-topic threads.

I guess the only thing on my side that isn't offset by something on
your side is the fact that
most people would think it rather reasonable to assume that a group
called rec.boats would be about boating.

If you're not about boating 24/7, then it woujld be better to spend a
proportionate amount of time in NG's actually established to cater to
your other interests, wouldn't it?


Chuck, you're making rational arguments that any reasonable person would
understand.

Key word - reasonable.

JimH is pandering to a certain crowd, most of which have deserted him
anyway. Putting him in your kill file would help everyone.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

I am once again the focus of JohnH's post, with his reply being nothing
but inflamatory.

JohnH has been the cause/origan of most negative or argumentative
posts, this being one of them.

On 24 May 2006 17:15:38 -0700, "
wrote:

I guess the only thing on my side that isn't offset by something on
your side is the fact that
most people would think it rather reasonable to assume that a group
called rec.boats would be about boating.

Interesting concept but highly radical.

Chuck, keep up the good fight, I believe the majority are solidly
behind you.

I think the most compelling reasons to avoid politics and flame fests
are that 1) It drives away people who may have solid contributions to
make but may not have time or inclination to sort through BS; and 2)
It raises the noise level to such an extent that finding worthwhile on
topic content becomes difficult.

When the experts stop visiting, and we do have some, the whole news
group becomes irrelevant.

Or to put it another way, if you don't have anything to say about
boats, don't say it here.

Chuck,
I know when you are debating this topic with JimH, you really don't
expect to convince him that rec.boats is a better place without the name
calling, inflammatory topics and political trolls, but are really using
this as a venue to get on your soapbox for all the others who might want
to jump on board. It appears that the majority of the people have
agreed they prefer a kinder and gentler rec.boats.

There are a few others who are always looking for a fight, and they will
try different bait till they get some action. I have noticed that most
of the regulars are now ignoring their trolls. Since I have tried
(semi-effectively) to ignore the trolls, I have found most of the people
I disagree with politically to be enjoyable folk. I also find rec.boats
to be more enjoyable place to waste some time.

Thanks for your subtle (and not so subtle reminders).

--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
.. Since I have tried
(semi-effectively) to ignore the trolls, I have found most of the people
I disagree with politically to be enjoyable folk.

Precisely.

It's OK for people to disagree.
Wish I had a buck an ounce for all the hatred that has been expressed
in this forum over the years between people who really don't know each
other at all but assumed that people with differing perspectives must
somehow be defective and detestable individuals.

There are a few guys who are so highly entertained by the naming and
flaming (and most of them don't really give a rat about boating) that
they will drop their OT stink bombs in here just hoping and praying
that a big old nasty fight will break out. Then they have the balls
(gotta hand it to 'em) to complain that people suggesting the NG stay
on topic are somehow a negative or undesirable presence. (Maybe
suggestions that we try to stay on topic are negative and undesirable,
depending on a persson's actual motivation for hanging around the NG in
the first place?) Go figure.

I can't think of one person that I totally dislike, even the habitual
trolls and even the folks who express opinions with which I disagree.