Gold has been highly valued for thousands of years. Gold coins *are*
attractive in a barter-based economy.

There's no disputing that has been the history of gold. But I think it will
be a much different situation for gold if a complete economic meltdown
happens in the future. If we are reduced to foraging for the bare
necessities of survival, I believe gold will be way down the list of prized
possessions. Of course I'm speaking of an extreme situation, but it is not
unthinkable. In an oil-based economy, when oil availability becomes truly
insufficient to meet life's daily needs, very ugly things will happen.
Hyper-inflation will be one effect. Not unlike Germany saw in the early
thirties. And we know where that lead.

The truly scary thing about this doomsday scenario as opposed to historical
major economic crises, is that the world today is so much more dependent on
oil for all the goods and services the world relies on. Even in the worst
historical economic meltdowns, the raw materials needed to pull ourselves
out of the dive were plentiful. In today's world, when oil becomes scarce,
everything becomes scarce. And that's when the scenario of street anarchy
becomes a reality. It scares the bejeezus out of me. All that each of us
has worked a lifetime for will become for the most part, meaningless.
Imagine the ugliness of life in New Orleans in the immediate aftermath of
Katrina as a normal way of life with no end in sight. What do you suppose a
gold chain was worth on the streets of NO during the first week after
Katrina? Or a gold coin, if you could find anybody who owned one? I'm
guessing either was worth much less than a bag of ice.

I am going to hold onto the 500 gals of diesel fuel currently stored in my
boat and sell it off, quart by quart when I need cash.


I've been on the boat since yesterday afternoon. This morning, I walked
over to the fuel dock just to see how bad things have gotten. A new
shipment of gas was delivered to the marina yesterday, and the pump prices
were changed accordingly. $4.50 per gallon for regular gas. After my 10%
marina member discount, that takes me down to $4.05. Holy crap. And I'm
sitting on 1/8th of a tank. Between that and all the doomsday talk in the
group, I'm about ready to lay out on the swim platform and open a vein.

But I tell you, it certainly does make me think about putting a for sale
sign on the boat before the rush. If these ugly predictions come true,
there will be no marketplace to sell a boat. It will have no value other
than shelter. At that point, you just call the bank and tell them it's
theirs. Multiply that times thousands and thousands of boat owners (and
RV's and SUV's, etc) and then guess what happens to the solvency of the
banks. And on and on.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
RG wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
RG wrote:
From page 2:

"Reallocate your financial assets so that you are as best
positioned to handle these issues as you can realistically
hope to be."

Where would that be?

Under a mild version of the scenario, cash would be king. Under a more
extreme version, even cash would be useless, as would any financial
asset. At that point it comes down to food, water, shelter, and
weaponry.
Gold.

Nonsense. That's a myth. Leading up to the crisis, gold will indeed
shine. There is no reason for it, but it will happen. But once the ****
really hits the fan, it will be of little real value. Tell me how you
eat or drink gold. Tell me how it shelters you from the cold. It can
make an effective weapon at extremely close range. It's heavy as hell
and a bar could easily smash an opponent's skull, but there are better
choices for that.

Gold is one of the world's most strange assets. Unlike industrial
metals, gold has almost no intrinsic value as it relates to global
economic production. And yet it has always been a prized possession.
The vast majority of the world's gold production is consumed by the
jewelry industry. Another very small percentage is used by the
electronics and technology industries. But if life comes down to food,
gas, and bullets, bling will have very little value on the street in a
barter-based economy. Gold in any meaningful quantity is extremely
cumbersome and will only slow you down in your quest for survival.

Gold has been highly valued for thousands of years. Gold coins *are*
attractive in a barter-based economy.


The hell with gold........just stock up on MGD beer, Dorito's, Krispy Kremes
and Twinkies. When everything is scarce those items will be in high demand
and provide the best trading opportunities.. ;-)

The hell with gold........just stock up on MGD beer, Dorito's, Krispy
Kremes and Twinkies. When everything is scarce those items will be in
high demand and provide the best trading opportunities.. ;-)

A bottle of Jack will be worth a bloody fortune. Or your neighbor's life.

"RG" wrote in message
.. .

I am going to hold onto the 500 gals of diesel fuel currently stored in
my boat and sell it off, quart by quart when I need cash.


I've been on the boat since yesterday afternoon. This morning, I walked
over to the fuel dock just to see how bad things have gotten. A new
shipment of gas was delivered to the marina yesterday, and the pump prices
were changed accordingly. $4.50 per gallon for regular gas. After my 10%
marina member discount, that takes me down to $4.05. Holy crap. And I'm
sitting on 1/8th of a tank. Between that and all the doomsday talk in the
group, I'm about ready to lay out on the swim platform and open a vein.

But I tell you, it certainly does make me think about putting a for sale
sign on the boat before the rush. If these ugly predictions come true,
there will be no marketplace to sell a boat. It will have no value other
than shelter. At that point, you just call the bank and tell them it's
theirs. Multiply that times thousands and thousands of boat owners (and
RV's and SUV's, etc) and then guess what happens to the solvency of the
banks. And on and on.


Not me. When doomsday hits, I'll anchor the boat in shallow water and in a
warm climate, squatter's rights style. I'll fish for food, catch rain for
water, and say "screw it". Occasional land transportation, when required,
will be via Mrs.E's hay burners kept on a nearby oat field, obtained again
by squatter's rights. For protection though, I guess I better learn how to
put the bullets in my shotgun.

Do those Magma propane boat barbeques also burn wood?

RCE

RG wrote:

I am going to hold onto the 500 gals of diesel fuel currently stored in my
boat and sell it off, quart by quart when I need cash.



I've been on the boat since yesterday afternoon. This morning, I walked
over to the fuel dock just to see how bad things have gotten. A new
shipment of gas was delivered to the marina yesterday, and the pump prices
were changed accordingly. $4.50 per gallon for regular gas. After my 10%
marina member discount, that takes me down to $4.05. Holy crap. And I'm
sitting on 1/8th of a tank. Between that and all the doomsday talk in the
group, I'm about ready to lay out on the swim platform and open a vein.

But I tell you, it certainly does make me think about putting a for sale
sign on the boat before the rush. If these ugly predictions come true,
there will be no marketplace to sell a boat. It will have no value other
than shelter. At that point, you just call the bank and tell them it's
theirs. Multiply that times thousands and thousands of boat owners (and
RV's and SUV's, etc) and then guess what happens to the solvency of the
banks. And on and on.



That's a bit dramatic. It might create a buyer's market for boats, but
not much more. For the average boater, fuel costs are a relativley
small part of the overall cost of boating.

Do you really belive that boat owners will default on their loans just
because fuel costs have increased? Those that do should have found
another, cheaper, recreational activity.

Dan

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"RG" wrote in message
.. .

I am going to hold onto the 500 gals of diesel fuel currently stored in
my boat and sell it off, quart by quart when I need cash.


I've been on the boat since yesterday afternoon. This morning, I walked
over to the fuel dock just to see how bad things have gotten. A new
shipment of gas was delivered to the marina yesterday, and the pump
prices were changed accordingly. $4.50 per gallon for regular gas.
After my 10% marina member discount, that takes me down to $4.05. Holy
crap. And I'm sitting on 1/8th of a tank. Between that and all the
doomsday talk in the group, I'm about ready to lay out on the swim
platform and open a vein.

But I tell you, it certainly does make me think about putting a for sale
sign on the boat before the rush. If these ugly predictions come true,
there will be no marketplace to sell a boat. It will have no value other
than shelter. At that point, you just call the bank and tell them it's
theirs. Multiply that times thousands and thousands of boat owners (and
RV's and SUV's, etc) and then guess what happens to the solvency of the
banks. And on and on.


Not me. When doomsday hits, I'll anchor the boat in shallow water and in a
warm climate, squatter's rights style. I'll fish for food, catch rain for
water, and say "screw it". Occasional land transportation, when
required, will be via Mrs.E's hay burners kept on a nearby oat field,
obtained again by squatter's rights. For protection though, I guess I
better learn how to put the bullets in my shotgun.

*Bullets* in a shotgun?

You better hire a bodyguard or hand the weapon over to Mrs. E. for proper
use.. ;-)

"RG" wrote in message
.. .

I am going to hold onto the 500 gals of diesel fuel currently stored in
my boat and sell it off, quart by quart when I need cash.


I've been on the boat since yesterday afternoon. This morning, I walked
over to the fuel dock just to see how bad things have gotten. A new
shipment of gas was delivered to the marina yesterday, and the pump prices
were changed accordingly. $4.50 per gallon for regular gas. After my 10%
marina member discount, that takes me down to $4.05. Holy crap. And I'm
sitting on 1/8th of a tank. Between that and all the doomsday talk in the
group, I'm about ready to lay out on the swim platform and open a vein.

But I tell you, it certainly does make me think about putting a for sale
sign on the boat before the rush. If these ugly predictions come true,
there will be no marketplace to sell a boat. It will have no value other
than shelter. At that point, you just call the bank and tell them it's
theirs. Multiply that times thousands and thousands of boat owners (and
RV's and SUV's, etc) and then guess what happens to the solvency of the
banks. And on and on.


I am very happy we sold our 32 footer two years ago and replaced it with a
small single engine runabout. ;-)

"RG" wrote in message
m...



That's a bit dramatic. It might create a buyer's market for boats, but
not much more. For the average boater, fuel costs are a relativley small
part of the overall cost of boating.

In today's world, I absolutely agree. The more recent discussions in this
thread have been focused on much more extreme scenarios that could
possibly play out in the future.


Do you really belive that boat owners will default on their loans just
because fuel costs have increased?

Yes, if we are talking per gallon fuel costs deep into double digits,
possibly triple digits, and even possibly unavailable at any price. That
is the framework in which my comment was made, and which the discussion
over the last 24 hours has been focused in this thread. You may think
such a scenario unthinkable, but many believe it is not.


Everyone's situation is different, of course, depending on what kind of boat
they have and how and what they use it for.

But here's an eye opener for me. In the fall of 2002, I took my boat from
MA to Florida, something that many people here on the east coast do yearly.
That trip's fuel cost was about 4,300 bucks, if I recall correctly (log book
not handy). In many places south of Virginia diesel was selling for about a
dollar/gal at that time.
Right now the same trip would be closer to 14K in fuel costs. I like
boating, but I don't like it that much. So, for now anyway, the boat stays
put. Fortunately I am loan free on it, so it doesn't hurt so much, but I
also think that it's already too late to sell if so inclined and expect to
get fair market value.

Makes a great summer cottage on the Cape, though.

RCE

But here's an eye opener for me. In the fall of 2002, I took my boat
from MA to Florida, something that many people here on the east coast do
yearly. That trip's fuel cost was about 4,300 bucks, if I recall correctly
(log book not handy). In many places south of Virginia diesel was selling
for about a dollar/gal at that time.
Right now the same trip would be closer to 14K in fuel costs. I like
boating, but I don't like it that much. So, for now anyway, the boat
stays put. Fortunately I am loan free on it, so it doesn't hurt so much,
but I also think that it's already too late to sell if so inclined and
expect to get fair market value.


But it will always be worth fair market value. The real question is just
what fair market means in dollars and cents. At $3 fuel, it means one
thing. At $5 fuel, it means something else. At $10 dollar fuel, you and I
don't want to know.



Makes a great summer cottage on the Cape, though.



Can you imagine a scenario where several hours of generator time would be
considered an evening's splurge?