On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:31:17 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Don White wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
Don White wrote:

RCE wrote:

"RG" wrote in message
m...

That's a bit dramatic. It might create a buyer's market for boats,
but not much more. For the average boater, fuel costs are a
relativley small part of the overall cost of boating.
In today's world, I absolutely agree. The more recent discussions
in this thread have been focused on much more extreme scenarios that
could possibly play out in the future.


Do you really belive that boat owners will default on their loans
just because fuel costs have increased?
Yes, if we are talking per gallon fuel costs deep into double
digits, possibly triple digits, and even possibly unavailable at any
price. That is the framework in which my comment was made, and
which the discussion over the last 24 hours has been focused in this
thread. You may think such a scenario unthinkable, but many
believe it is not.

Everyone's situation is different, of course, depending on what kind
of boat they have and how and what they use it for.

But here's an eye opener for me. In the fall of 2002, I took my
boat from MA to Florida, something that many people here on the east
coast do yearly. That trip's fuel cost was about 4,300 bucks, if I
recall correctly (log book not handy). In many places south of
Virginia diesel was selling for about a dollar/gal at that time.
Right now the same trip would be closer to 14K in fuel costs. I like
boating, but I don't like it that much. So, for now anyway, the boat
stays put. Fortunately I am loan free on it, so it doesn't hurt so
much, but I also think that it's already too late to sell if so
inclined and expect to get fair market value.

Makes a great summer cottage on the Cape, though.

RCE

I'd fly south and charter a boat or borrow a friend's.


I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying
to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing the
idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For itself.

I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe
anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any of
the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or
percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000
different ways.

We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and
Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues,
stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority of
people in this country first.

All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack.

Up here back in the 70s our federal gov't created a new oil company by
buying out the old Fina Oil Company. This was paid for by a 3 cents per
liter surtax on gas. The new company... Petro Canada.
The idea was to sell gas at a fair price and force the big American
companies to toe the line.
Then that %^$&^ smarmy conservative government of Mulroney came to power
and sold the company back to us as shares. Now it's no better than the rest.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/petrocanada/


I've never been convinced that production or distribution of energy,
operation of infrastructure, operation of hospitals, et cetera, should
be in the hands of the private sector in the absence of strong
governmental and consumer oversight.

Communes and the abolishment of private ownership of *anything* is really
the way to go.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:13:30 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:




I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying
to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing the
idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For itself.

I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe
anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any of
the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or
percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000
different ways.

We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and
Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues,
stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority of
people in this country first.

All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack.



It's all Henry Ford's fault.

RCE

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
RCE wrote:
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:13:30 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:



I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying
to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing
the
idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For
itself.

I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe
anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any
of
the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or
percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000
different ways.

We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and
Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues,
stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority
of
people in this country first.

All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is
quack.


It's all Henry Ford's fault.

RCE

No doubt. So, what's the mileage on that 18-cylinder BMW, anyway? :}

Average of about 15 mpg. All things considered, that's not too bad for a
500 hp V10 and a 4012 lb vehicle. It's been slowly going up, although I only
have 1800 miles on the car.

RCE

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
RCE wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
RCE wrote:
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:13:30 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:


I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter
trying
to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing
the
idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For
itself.

I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe
anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any
of
the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount
or
percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked
1000
different ways.

We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and
Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues,
stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority
of
people in this country first.

All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is
quack.

It's all Henry Ford's fault.

RCE
No doubt. So, what's the mileage on that 18-cylinder BMW, anyway? :}

Average of about 15 mpg. All things considered, that's not too bad for a
500 hp V10 and a 4012 lb vehicle. It's been slowly going up, although I
only have 1800 miles on the car.

RCE





I get about 24 mpg highway with my V8 SUV (selective AWD) at 60 mph.
Now this is curious: my car is in the shop getting a minor butt dent
repaired, and I have a V6 SUV loaner, and it only gets about 19 mpg at 60
mph.

Smaller engines does not automatically mean better fuel mileage. I have to
admit, the BMW drops to about 13 mpg at 130 mph though. :-)

I am not hurting that badly with the fuel price increases because, even
though I have a car collection that all get terrible mileage, I don't drive
them much. I figured out the other day that if you minus out several trips
back and forth to Florida while we were selling the house and my recent trip
out to Denver and back, I do about 100 miles a week combined on all the
vehicles, often less. Lately, I've been burning more fuel in the tractor,
finishing a walking English garden that I started last fall.

My fuel usage will go up a little bit during the summer because I'll use the
collection more often, but other than local trips to the store or an
occasional cruise night gathering, I pretty much stay home. The boat is a
40 mile drive each way, but when I go there, I stay for 3 or 4 days and
usually take the motorcycle.

RCE

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

I live about 40 miles from Washington, DC, but, fortunately, we mostly
take the commuter bus for work there and downtown appointments. That's
about $8.00 for the round-trip. With gas at $3.00 a gallon, and typical
heavy commuter traffic, it makes no economic sense to drive downtown.

We're about five miles from the commuter bus stop, and it is an easy drive
with little traffic anytime day or night.


Fuel burn on the remaining power boat is controllable. I think it is time
to buy another used canoe for paddling around, or even a nice little
rowboat for local use.


Politics and politicians aside, I am very concerned for the future.
Conservation won't solve the problem, nor will "alternative" fuel sources or
technology. Not just the US, but the whole world functions as a result of
the availability of oil and it's gone way too far to reverse. I think one
of two things will happen in the next 10-15 years. Either the world will
truly become a global community under common law and regulations, dividing
up remaining resources to survive, or we are heading for a major world
conflict .... WWIII basically.... and the victors (if any) will control the
remaining resources.

I don't see any other alternative on the horizon. Do you?

RCE (my glass is pretty much half empty, lately)

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
RCE wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
I live about 40 miles from Washington, DC, but, fortunately, we mostly
take the commuter bus for work there and downtown appointments. That's
about $8.00 for the round-trip. With gas at $3.00 a gallon, and typical
heavy commuter traffic, it makes no economic sense to drive downtown.

We're about five miles from the commuter bus stop, and it is an easy
drive with little traffic anytime day or night.


Fuel burn on the remaining power boat is controllable. I think it is
time to buy another used canoe for paddling around, or even a nice
little rowboat for local use.


Politics and politicians aside, I am very concerned for the future.
Conservation won't solve the problem, nor will "alternative" fuel sources
or technology. Not just the US, but the whole world functions as a
result of the availability of oil and it's gone way too far to reverse.
I think one of two things will happen in the next 10-15 years. Either
the world will truly become a global community under common law and
regulations, dividing up remaining resources to survive, or we are
heading for a major world conflict .... WWIII basically.... and the
victors (if any) will control the remaining resources.

I don't see any other alternative on the horizon. Do you?

RCE (my glass is pretty much half empty, lately)


I don't hold out much hope for this country, because we've been ignoring
our serious problems for far too long. More and more Americans are being
left behind, with the American dream hardly even a dream anymore. What
little is left of the social contract is being eroded. Wait til the baby
boomers realize they've been screwed out of health care coverage. We might
yet have a revolution in this country.

Health care will be the least of our worries. And it's not a problem unique
to the US. It's a world problem.

RCE

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:16:46 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
RCE wrote:
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:13:30 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:



I have the vaguest memories of Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter trying
to push for an energy independence policy, and Ronald Reagan killing
the
idea, saying the private sector would provide. Provide indeed. For
itself.

I've not seen any aspect of the petrol industry that makes me believe
anything it claims or says. I don't for a New York Minute believe any
of
the b.s. it or its accountants put forth as statements on the amount or
percentage of profit the industry "earns." Those books are cooked 1000
different ways.

We're going to be marking time until we have a new President and
Congress, one that is willing to really take on the difficult issues,
stop lying to the American public, and put the future of the majority
of
people in this country first.

All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is
quack.


It's all Henry Ford's fault.

RCE

No doubt. So, what's the mileage on that 18-cylinder BMW, anyway? :}

Average of about 15 mpg. All things considered, that's not too bad for a
500 hp V10 and a 4012 lb vehicle. It's been slowly going up, although I only
have 1800 miles on the car.

RCE



If it's any consolation - the Mustang started off at 19mpg. Now, at about
6100 miles, it's up to 23.4.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack.

Same old ****, huh Harry?

Two years ago: "I'm a WAR president!"
Last week: "I'm the decider!"


Seriously, John. Do you actually have higher expectations from your
president than you do from the worst of your students?

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:53:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .

All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack.

Same old ****, huh Harry?

Two years ago: "I'm a WAR president!"
Last week: "I'm the decider!"


Seriously, John. Do you actually have higher expectations from your
president than you do from the worst of your students?


Same old ****, huh Doug? I'd 'expect' the political crap in another
newsgroup. I made no comments about Bush, one way or the other.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:53:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..

All Bush is going to be able to do from now until January 2009 is quack.

Same old ****, huh Harry?

Two years ago: "I'm a WAR president!"
Last week: "I'm the decider!"


Seriously, John. Do you actually have higher expectations from your
president than you do from the worst of your students?


Same old ****, huh Doug? I'd 'expect' the political crap in another
newsgroup. I made no comments about Bush, one way or the other.
--
'Til next time,

John H

Well, you ARE participating, John.

About my statements: How could I possibly think about the president without
remembering things he says which make a lasting impression?