Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m...9/ixworld.html

It appears that one of the legacies of the Clinton administration is
that global warming stopped in 1998.


Raising hand I have a question! Are you the opinion that there
could never be any information which would convince you that we *are*
contributing to global warming, and might want to change a few living
habits?

There is no information at this time that would convince me that
global warming is a man made phenomena.

You might be right, or you might be wrong. However, here's an analogy.
Your doctor says you have a brain tumor. You tell him won't believe
it's dangerous until he shows you a petri dish on his desk containing a
tumor, from your head, the size of a bran muffin. Of course, by that
time, you'd be so messed up that you won't be able to comment on what
you're seeing.

No, the analogy should be; You have headaches and one doctor says you
have a brain tumor even though it doesn't show up on a CT scan, "it's
too small" says the doctor "to show up on a scan at this time but it
will kill you if left untreated". You go for a second opinion and that
doctor asks about your lifestyle, does and in-depth study and concludes
that it's probably related to your job as an amusement ride inspector
but to be on the safe side you should get a CT scan every 6 months for 2
years to be sure. You can't quit your job ( you have a family to
support) so you follow the second doctors advice.

Doug, you call the second doctor a quack when that IS the reasonable
choice. The first doctor MAY be right but the evidence is not all in.
There may be a tumor caused by insult but it's not going to be
malignant, it's not going to grow or metastasize.


Interesting analogy, Jeff, but doctor #2 hasn't suggested any behavioral
changes. That would complete the picture.

"Behavioral changes?" What behavioral changes can effect the growth of an
existing brain tumor?


You're right. Nothing affects the growth of cells, cancerous or otherwise.
How silly of thousands of researchers to waste time meddling in the
inevitable.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

Bert Robbins wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m...9/ixworld.html

It appears that one of the legacies of the Clinton administration is
that global warming stopped in 1998.


Raising hand I have a question! Are you the opinion that there
could never be any information which would convince you that we *are*
contributing to global warming, and might want to change a few living
habits?

There is no information at this time that would convince me that global
warming is a man made phenomena.

You might be right, or you might be wrong. However, here's an analogy.
Your doctor says you have a brain tumor. You tell him won't believe it's
dangerous until he shows you a petri dish on his desk containing a
tumor, from your head, the size of a bran muffin. Of course, by that
time, you'd be so messed up that you won't be able to comment on what
you're seeing.

No, the analogy should be; You have headaches and one doctor says you
have a brain tumor even though it doesn't show up on a CT scan, "it's too
small" says the doctor "to show up on a scan at this time but it will
kill you if left untreated". You go for a second opinion and that doctor
asks about your lifestyle, does and in-depth study and concludes that
it's probably related to your job as an amusement ride inspector but to
be on the safe side you should get a CT scan every 6 months for 2 years
to be sure. You can't quit your job ( you have a family to support) so
you follow the second doctors advice.

Doug, you call the second doctor a quack when that IS the reasonable
choice. The first doctor MAY be right but the evidence is not all in.
There may be a tumor caused by insult but it's not going to be malignant,
it's not going to grow or metastasize.


Interesting analogy, Jeff, but doctor #2 hasn't suggested any behavioral
changes. That would complete the picture.

"Behavioral changes?" What behavioral changes can effect the growth of an
existing brain tumor?

Hmm, I'd think that taking the medication your doctor prescribed, as
opposed to hanging at the corner smoking crack would 1. effect the
growth of the tumor because that's what the doctor prescribed the
medicine for, and 2. would be a behavioral change.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:14:52 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

That's why I am trading in my small 383 ci for a bigger, 440 ci that burns
more fuel and makes more smog.

Which brings up an interesting question, at least in my mind.

When you repower an older vehicle, such as your truck or car, that was
built prior to emissions standards, do you need to bring it into
compliance, or does it have a lifetime exemption?

Curious minds want to know. :-)

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:52:05 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:14:52 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

That's why I am trading in my small 383 ci for a bigger, 440 ci that
burns
more fuel and makes more smog.

Which brings up an interesting question, at least in my mind.

When you repower an older vehicle, such as your truck or car, that was
built prior to emissions standards, do you need to bring it into
compliance, or does it have a lifetime exemption?

Curious minds want to know. :-)

As long as it's consistent with the period, you don't have to do
anything - at least in CT.

For example, when I rebuilt the SD-220 six in my '50 International
Harvester L-110, everything was original and exactly to the period.
Now if I had swapped the engine for, say, a 564 CUI big block, then it
would have had to be up to standard with a cat converter, PCV, etc.
The only thing I wouldn't have had to do was incorporate computer
control as it was a normally aspirated engine. If it was electronic,
then you have to add the EMM.

In Dick's case (I believe it's the same in MA), as long as it's
strictly held to the period, he doesn't have to do anything as far as
emissions goes.

Curious tidbit: I had my International put through emissions just for
giggles - it tested cleaner than a two year old Subaru in the next
bay.

Emissions testing? It's a joke.

That's because the Subaru customer base is now dominated by disgustingly
mild people who never seem to rev their cars higher than 800 RPM. This is
the same crowd that used to drive K-cars. The crap never gets blown out of
their motors, and a tuneup involves nothing more than taking it out on the
highway and jumping on the pedal hard for 5 minutes. :)

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:14:52 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

That's why I am trading in my small 383 ci for a bigger, 440 ci that burns
more fuel and makes more smog.

Which brings up an interesting question, at least in my mind.

When you repower an older vehicle, such as your truck or car, that was
built prior to emissions standards, do you need to bring it into
compliance, or does it have a lifetime exemption?

Curious minds want to know. :-)


Depends on how the vehicle is titled and registered. My new truck is
officially a '55, but the engine is a '98. No emission tests or
requirements apply. But, to put the tree huggers at peace, I probably go
through a tank of gas every 2 months.

RCE

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:49:27 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:14:52 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

That's why I am trading in my small 383 ci for a bigger, 440 ci that
burns
more fuel and makes more smog.

Which brings up an interesting question, at least in my mind.

When you repower an older vehicle, such as your truck or car, that was
built prior to emissions standards, do you need to bring it into
compliance, or does it have a lifetime exemption?

Curious minds want to know. :-)


Depends on how the vehicle is titled and registered. My new truck is
officially a '55, but the engine is a '98. No emission tests or
requirements apply. But, to put the tree huggers at peace, I probably go
through a tank of gas every 2 months.

Pansy.

Well, maybe a bit more ...

One thing that cracks me up though ... Florida ... Wayne's new homestate,
does not require emission or safety inspections of any vehicles. That
really blew me away when I registered a little Ford Ranger in Florida when
we wintered there. Must be one of the few or maybe only state left that has
no inspections.

RCE

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

Global Warming: It Has Stopped

Group: rec.boats Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2006, 3:49pm (PDT+3) From:
(RCE)
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:14:52 -0400, "RCE" wrote:
That's why I am trading in my small 383 ci for a bigger, 440 ci that
burns more fuel and makes more smog.
Which brings up an interesting question, at least in my mind.
When you repower an older vehicle, such as your truck or car, that was
built prior to emissions standards, do you need to bring it into
compliance, or does it have a lifetime exemption?
Curious minds want to know. * :-)
Depends on how the vehicle is titled and registered. My new truck is
officially a '55, but the engine is a '98. No emission tests or
requirements apply. But, to put the tree huggers at peace, I probably go
through a tank of gas every 2 months.
RCE


OK, I know you've got a '55 Ford pickup, but (sniff sniff) what Mopar
are you running a 383 in? Show me yours and I'll show you mine, UD

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:21:47 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

OK, I know you've got a '55 Ford pickup, but (sniff sniff) what Mopar
are you running a 383 in? Show me yours and I'll show you mine, UD

I can't wait to see Dan's reaction to this one.

Chuckle.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

""UglyDan®©T"" wrote in message
...



OK, I know you've got a '55 Ford pickup, but (sniff sniff) what Mopar
are you running a 383 in? Show me yours and I'll show you mine, UD


Posted a pic for you over at alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean

RCE

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:21:47 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

OK, I know you've got a '55 Ford pickup, but (sniff sniff) what Mopar
are you running a 383 in? Show me yours and I'll show you mine, UD

I can't wait to see Dan's reaction to this one.

Chuckle.


Dan might surprise us with something with an original hemi. There's a
classified ad for a '69 Dodge Charger Daytona on Hemmings.com. Asking price
is well over $600,000.00.

Even more vanilla mopars of that vintage with a running hemi are priced
anywhere from 150k to 300K.

The economy models, like mine, with the 440 are a lot more reasonable,
price-wise. Mine has a certain value above normal though, because of the
car's history and documentation.

RCE

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message

To tell you the truth, Bert, I rarely look into your toilet bowl. I figure
if you posted it, no matter the subject, it absolutely, positively has to
be b.s.

Have a nice day and no need to respond; I'm unlikely to read it.

.......unlike Bert's first post, to which you responded in (count 'em) *4*
minutes; or his reply to you, to which you responded in a mere 1:15.

That's a pretty amazing display for someone who doesn't even read Bert's
missives.

I'm impressed.

LOL

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message

You might be right, or you might be wrong. However, here's an analogy.
Your doctor says you have a brain tumor. You tell him ........

HA!!

Crapola, Dougie-Boy! That's not an analogy, it's a High School debating
trick

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"The constant cycles of cooling and warming has occurred for millions of
years. Why is the fact that we are in a heightened solar flare cycle and
both the Earth and Mars are getting warmer not of interest to you? What
caused the glaciers from the last ice age, over 10,000 years ago to thaw?
What caused those glaciers to form in the first place? Something you global
warming adherents fail to comprehend is that the planet does not exist alone
and that the Sun is an integral part of our existence and has a dramatic
effect on our planet and our own existence."
- Bert

Bert,
Does the ozone hole exhibit geologic cyclic behavior, also?
One of the things the Global Warming folks bring up is that the ozone hole
is getting bigger and that is, in part, attached to the claims of man-made
global warming.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Bryan" wrote in message
...
"The constant cycles of cooling and warming has occurred for millions of
years. Why is the fact that we are in a heightened solar flare cycle and
both the Earth and Mars are getting warmer not of interest to you? What
caused the glaciers from the last ice age, over 10,000 years ago to thaw?
What caused those glaciers to form in the first place? Something you
global
warming adherents fail to comprehend is that the planet does not exist
alone
and that the Sun is an integral part of our existence and has a dramatic
effect on our planet and our own existence."
- Bert

Bert,
Does the ozone hole exhibit geologic cyclic behavior, also?
One of the things the Global Warming folks bring up is that the ozone hole
is getting bigger and that is, in part, attached to the claims of man-made
global warming.



The enlarged ozone hole was blamed on the release of freon and other CFC's.
Since they were banned years ago, the ozone hole has gotten bigger.

RCE

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Bryan" wrote in message
...
"The constant cycles of cooling and warming has occurred for millions of
years. Why is the fact that we are in a heightened solar flare cycle and
both the Earth and Mars are getting warmer not of interest to you? What
caused the glaciers from the last ice age, over 10,000 years ago to thaw?
What caused those glaciers to form in the first place? Something you
global
warming adherents fail to comprehend is that the planet does not exist
alone
and that the Sun is an integral part of our existence and has a dramatic
effect on our planet and our own existence."
- Bert

Bert,
Does the ozone hole exhibit geologic cyclic behavior, also?
One of the things the Global Warming folks bring up is that the ozone hole
is getting bigger and that is, in part, attached to the claims of man-made
global warming.

No, the Ozone hole exhibits a cycle that almost coincides with the Earth's
solar year. The Ozone hole expands and contracts throughout the year. If the
Ozone hole had expanded at the rates initially reported then it would be the
size of the entire southern hemisphere by now.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jeff Rigby wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m...9/ixworld.html

It appears that one of the legacies of the Clinton administration is
that global warming stopped in 1998.

Raising hand I have a question! Are you the opinion that there
could never be any information which would convince you that we *are*
contributing to global warming, and might want to change a few living
habits?
There is no information at this time that would convince me that global
warming is a man made phenomena.
You might be right, or you might be wrong. However, here's an analogy.
Your doctor says you have a brain tumor. You tell him won't believe it's
dangerous until he shows you a petri dish on his desk containing a
tumor, from your head, the size of a bran muffin. Of course, by that
time, you'd be so messed up that you won't be able to comment on what
you're seeing.

No, the analogy should be; You have headaches and one doctor says you
have a brain tumor even though it doesn't show up on a CT scan, "it's too
small" says the doctor "to show up on a scan at this time but it will
kill you if left untreated". You go for a second opinion and that doctor
asks about your lifestyle, does and in-depth study and concludes that
it's probably related to your job as an amusement ride inspector but to
be on the safe side you should get a CT scan every 6 months for 2 years
to be sure. You can't quit your job ( you have a family to support) so
you follow the second doctors advice.

Doug, you call the second doctor a quack when that IS the reasonable
choice. The first doctor MAY be right but the evidence is not all in.
There may be a tumor caused by insult but it's not going to be malignant,
it's not going to grow or metastasize.


Interesting, but if certain posters here (and I am not hinting you are one
of those) claimed there was no connection between the activities of man
and global warming, I would dismiss those claims out of hand because of
the demonstrated pigheadedness and stupidity of those posters, and the
fact that they have their heads stuck up the butts of the US Chamber of
Commerce.

All things being equal the eco systems of the earth can handle increased
carbon dioxide in the air, in fact life will flourish as plants take up this
nutrient and algae and plants become more prolific. Short term we might
have a moderate increase in temperature, nothing like the 8 degree swings of
the past before we were a factor in planetary terms.

We should all be much more concerned with the OTHER pollutants like lead,
mercury, cadmium, radium and others that are going into the atmosphere from
coal fired power plants. As far as I am concerned the coal plants can
produce MORE carbon dioxide if they can eliminate the heavy metals from the
stack.

The global warming scare is a political shell game, it's crap.....Everyone's
attention is diverted from the REAL issues.

Harry, tell me why NO-ONE is concerned about these poisons. Why the
attention to a benign gas that IS part of the life cycle. IS NECESSARY for
life to flourish.... and no attention to elements that are not a part of the
life cycle, that pollute the food chain and KILL higher forms of life.

Do you think you are being manipulated Harry....think about it.... I know
we are and it makes me angry!

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

Harry, tell me why NO-ONE is concerned about these poisons.

Not true, Jeff. The article below is dumbed down a bit for mass consumption,
and focuses primarily on global warming. But, the groups behind Spitzer's
efforts are equally focused on mercury and other contaminants.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb2...3-02-21-10.asp

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

RCE wrote:
"Bryan" wrote in message
...

"The constant cycles of cooling and warming has occurred for millions of
years. Why is the fact that we are in a heightened solar flare cycle and
both the Earth and Mars are getting warmer not of interest to you? What
caused the glaciers from the last ice age, over 10,000 years ago to thaw?
What caused those glaciers to form in the first place? Something you
global
warming adherents fail to comprehend is that the planet does not exist
alone
and that the Sun is an integral part of our existence and has a dramatic
effect on our planet and our own existence."
- Bert

Bert,
Does the ozone hole exhibit geologic cyclic behavior, also?
One of the things the Global Warming folks bring up is that the ozone hole
is getting bigger and that is, in part, attached to the claims of man-made
global warming.




The enlarged ozone hole was blamed on the release of freon and other CFC's.
Since they were banned years ago, the ozone hole has gotten bigger.

RCE





We didn't even know about the ozone hole until 1984. We haven't enough
data to know if it has geologic cycles or not. Or even if it has always
existed or just appeared as a result of CFC's breaking down ozone (which
was the theory of the time, which was presented as fact, much the way
global climate models are presented as fact these days)

I have seen almost NO science about climate change. Even in journals
like Nature, climatology has become polluted by politics.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

Harry, tell me why NO-ONE is concerned about these poisons.

Not true, Jeff. The article below is dumbed down a bit for mass
consumption, and focuses primarily on global warming. But, the groups
behind Spitzer's efforts are equally focused on mercury and other
contaminants.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb2...3-02-21-10.asp
Yes, read the article. It makes my point. The uninformed, Democrats,
Liberals, Everyone but Lieberman (a rational democrat) is concerned about
carbon dioxide. Lieberman is concerned with mercury emissions. As I've
said before, I'd vote for him for president even though I'm a Republican.
Bush is implementing mercury emission standards but he is SLOWLY
implementing them. I'm not happy about that.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

Harry, tell me why NO-ONE is concerned about these poisons.

Not true, Jeff. The article below is dumbed down a bit for mass
consumption, and focuses primarily on global warming. But, the groups
behind Spitzer's efforts are equally focused on mercury and other
contaminants.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb2...3-02-21-10.asp
Yes, read the article. It makes my point. The uninformed, Democrats,
Liberals, Everyone but Lieberman (a rational democrat) is concerned about
carbon dioxide. Lieberman is concerned with mercury emissions. As I've
said before, I'd vote for him for president even though I'm a Republican.
Bush is implementing mercury emission standards but he is SLOWLY
implementing them. I'm not happy about that.


When the monkey's staff refused to reveal the attendees at his so-called
"energy task force" meetings, did you find that odd, and write to his
sitters to complain?

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jeff Rigby wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message


Interesting, but if certain posters here (and I am not hinting you are
one of those) claimed there was no connection between the activities of
man and global warming, I would dismiss those claims out of hand because
of the demonstrated pigheadedness and stupidity of those posters, and
the fact that they have their heads stuck up the butts of the US Chamber
of Commerce.

All things being equal the eco systems of the earth can handle increased
carbon dioxide in the air, in fact life will flourish as plants take up
this nutrient and algae and plants become more prolific. Short term we
might have a moderate increase in temperature, nothing like the 8 degree
swings of the past before we were a factor in planetary terms.


Better scientists than you or I disagree, and believe we are precipitating
global warming to a degree that will lead to disaster.
Yes, scientists disagree. Many of the "claims" from the doom and gloom
global warming club have been debunked in terms that even I can understand.
It makes them seem "unscientific" and ignorant as their claims would require
global temperature increases of 50 degrees for polar ice melt and their
models claim 5 degree increases in 100 years.





We should all be much more concerned with the OTHER pollutants like lead,
mercury, cadmium, radium and others that are going into the atmosphere
from coal fired power plants. As far as I am concerned the coal plants
can produce MORE carbon dioxide if they can eliminate the heavy metals
from the stack.

Some of us are concerned about those substances, and coal-burning plants
aren't the only sources of them. Then why waste time on carbon dioxide
when we can get behind mercury emission standards.



The global warming scare is a political shell game, it's
crap.....Everyone's attention is diverted from the REAL issues.

I disagree. You think it is out there to divert attention away from the
other pollutants? By whom, the polluters? Who? China, India, France



Harry, tell me why NO-ONE is concerned about these poisons. Why the
attention to a benign gas that IS part of the life cycle. IS NECESSARY
for life to flourish.... and no attention to elements that are not a part
of the life cycle, that pollute the food chain and KILL higher forms of
life.

Do you think you are being manipulated Harry....think about it.... I
know we are and it makes me angry!

We are being manipulated by corporations and their henchmen in Washington
on any number of issues.

Right, so you still don't recognize this one? IF Bush had gone along with
the Kyoto treaty the Democrats would have been against it. Maybe not at
first but after it impacted our economy, Bush would have been the short
sighted idiot who believed the French and signed the treaty. Clinton
wouldn't have signed the treaty.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

Yes, scientists disagree. Many of the "claims" from the doom and gloom
global warming club have been debunked in terms that even I can
understand. It makes them seem "unscientific" and ignorant as their claims
would require global temperature increases of 50 degrees for polar ice
melt and their models claim 5 degree increases in 100 years.

There are indications NOW that the polar caps are melting at a faster rate
than we've observed in the past. But, of course, we haven't observed it for
that long.


We are being manipulated by corporations and their henchmen in Washington
on any number of issues.

Right, so you still don't recognize this one? IF Bush had gone along with
the Kyoto treaty the Democrats would have been against it. Maybe not at
first but after it impacted our economy, Bush would have been the short
sighted idiot who believed the French and signed the treaty. Clinton
wouldn't have signed the treaty.


There is a contingent of loudmouth idiots who think anything which impacts
the economy is a bad thing, even if the impact is miniscule. These
neanderthals predict doom & gloom in much the same way as some scientists.
They put forth theories like this: If, in a perfect world, coal burning
power plants were given 2 years to make their smokestacks as clean as is
technologically possible, it would mean immediate financial disaster for the
stockholders, enormous job losses, the collapse of the stock market, and the
plunging of certain Midwestern states into abject poverty.

Obviously, none of this is true.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

Yes, scientists disagree. Many of the "claims" from the doom and gloom
global warming club have been debunked in terms that even I can
understand. It makes them seem "unscientific" and ignorant as their
claims would require global temperature increases of 50 degrees for polar
ice melt and their models claim 5 degree increases in 100 years.

There are indications NOW that the polar caps are melting at a faster rate
than we've observed in the past. But, of course, we haven't observed it
for that long.

The polar regions where most Ice resides, has a high of minus 50 degrees C
in the summer. These areas are NOT melting and will not melt. IF all the
other marginal Ice (where summer temperatures allow melting) were to melt
the seas would rise about 2 feet. This is predicted to occur in the next
50+ years by some models.

We are being manipulated by corporations and their henchmen in
Washington on any number of issues.

Right, so you still don't recognize this one? IF Bush had gone along
with the Kyoto treaty the Democrats would have been against it. Maybe
not at first but after it impacted our economy, Bush would have been the
short sighted idiot who believed the French and signed the treaty.
Clinton wouldn't have signed the treaty.


There is a contingent of loudmouth idiots who think anything which impacts
the economy is a bad thing, even if the impact is miniscule. These
neanderthals predict doom & gloom in much the same way as some scientists.
They put forth theories like this: If, in a perfect world, coal burning
power plants were given 2 years to make their smokestacks as clean as is
technologically possible, it would mean immediate financial disaster for
the stockholders, enormous job losses, the collapse of the stock market,
and the plunging of certain Midwestern states into abject poverty.

Obviously, none of this is true.
No, take petroleum refining plants for example. No new ones have been built
in 20 years because of regulations. They are still in business but WE pay
extra for gas during peak seasons and they make money because of the demand.

You understand that WE pay if the standards are too tight. Bush is looking
out for US not the fat cats. Unrealistic standards WILL cause them to
rethink the building of a new plant. That leads to local governments not
issuing permits for new industry or housing since the infrastructure is not
there to support it.

How about a compromise. We set a standard that is easily and cheaply
obtained and if we want tighter standards, the government pays for the
additional equipment these plants will need.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

Harry, tell me why NO-ONE is concerned about these poisons.

Not true, Jeff. The article below is dumbed down a bit for mass
consumption, and focuses primarily on global warming. But, the groups
behind Spitzer's efforts are equally focused on mercury and other
contaminants.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb2...3-02-21-10.asp
Yes, read the article. It makes my point. The uninformed, Democrats,
Liberals, Everyone but Lieberman (a rational democrat) is concerned
about carbon dioxide. Lieberman is concerned with mercury emissions. As
I've said before, I'd vote for him for president even though I'm a
Republican. Bush is implementing mercury emission standards but he is
SLOWLY implementing them. I'm not happy about that.


When the monkey's staff refused to reveal the attendees at his so-called
"energy task force" meetings, did you find that odd, and write to his
sitters to complain?
Nope, I understood that the people who attended the meeting did so only if
their names were not released. They requested this because they did not want
to become embroiled in political battles.

Rational logical thought vs. political double think

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
. ..

There is a contingent of loudmouth idiots who think anything which
impacts the economy is a bad thing, even if the impact is miniscule.
These neanderthals predict doom & gloom in much the same way as some
scientists. They put forth theories like this: If, in a perfect world,
coal burning power plants were given 2 years to make their smokestacks as
clean as is technologically possible, it would mean immediate financial
disaster for the stockholders, enormous job losses, the collapse of the
stock market, and the plunging of certain Midwestern states into abject
poverty.

Obviously, none of this is true.

No, take petroleum refining plants for example. No new ones have been
built in 20 years because of regulations. They are still in business but
WE pay extra for gas during peak seasons and they make money because of
the demand.

You understand that WE pay if the standards are too tight. Bush is
looking out for US not the fat cats. Unrealistic standards WILL cause
them to rethink the building of a new plant. That leads to local
governments not issuing permits for new industry or housing since the
infrastructure is not there to support it.

How about a compromise. We set a standard that is easily and cheaply
obtained and if we want tighter standards, the government pays for the
additional equipment these plants will need.



Three problems:

1) You haven't addressed this, so I'll ask again: Do you have a problem with
the list of Bush's energy "advisors" being a closely guarded secret? Without
this information, I will never trust the "easily and cheaply obtained"
standards which come out of the meetings. They can't POSSIBLY have been
determined in an impartial manner.

2) For reasons which cannot be justified, certain industries, products and
professions are elevated to special status in this country. The utilities
are one of these entities. Now, why should these industries NOT pay for
equipment upgrades like any other business?

3) With just a little bit of thought, we can both come up with a list of
companies which have faced far more disastrous problems than Ohio Edison
being forced to install state of the art equipment practically overnight.
This takes us back to #2: Why does OE deserve special treatment, when a
company like Philip Morris does not?

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

Harry, tell me why NO-ONE is concerned about these poisons.

Not true, Jeff. The article below is dumbed down a bit for mass
consumption, and focuses primarily on global warming. But, the groups
behind Spitzer's efforts are equally focused on mercury and other
contaminants.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb2...3-02-21-10.asp
Yes, read the article. It makes my point. The uninformed, Democrats,
Liberals, Everyone but Lieberman (a rational democrat) is concerned
about carbon dioxide. Lieberman is concerned with mercury emissions.
As I've said before, I'd vote for him for president even though I'm a
Republican. Bush is implementing mercury emission standards but he is
SLOWLY implementing them. I'm not happy about that.


When the monkey's staff refused to reveal the attendees at his so-called
"energy task force" meetings, did you find that odd, and write to his
sitters to complain?
Nope, I understood that the people who attended the meeting did so only if
their names were not released. They requested this because they did not
want to become embroiled in political battles.


In that case, you're part of the problem, Jeff. I didn't authorize anyone
from PG&E or Ohio Edison to make regulations for this country. I'm not so
naiive that I don't realize that politicians are advised (and licked nicely)
by captains of industry, but your boy certainly has taken it to the extreme.
The sad part is that nobody really gives a damn. This country's slumber is
enormous.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:19:01 -0400, "Jeff Rigby"
wrote:

Republican. Bush is implementing mercury emission standards but he is
SLOWLY implementing them. I'm not happy about that.


When the monkey's staff refused to reveal the attendees at his so-called
"energy task force" meetings, did you find that odd, and write to his
sitters to complain?
Nope, I understood that the people who attended the meeting did so only if
their names were not released. They requested this because they did not want
to become embroiled in political battles.

Interesting discussion, wrong group.

"It's all about boats."

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:19:01 -0400, "Jeff Rigby"
wrote:

Republican. Bush is implementing mercury emission standards but he is
SLOWLY implementing them. I'm not happy about that.


When the monkey's staff refused to reveal the attendees at his so-called
"energy task force" meetings, did you find that odd, and write to his
sitters to complain?
Nope, I understood that the people who attended the meeting did so only if
their names were not released. They requested this because they did not
want
to become embroiled in political battles.

Interesting discussion, wrong group.

"It's all about boats."


zzzzzzzzzzz........

Collapse the thread. Then you'll only see the first message, which will be
no more of a distraction than any other message.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:06:25 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:19:01 -0400, "Jeff Rigby"
wrote:

Republican. Bush is implementing mercury emission standards but he is
SLOWLY implementing them. I'm not happy about that.


When the monkey's staff refused to reveal the attendees at his so-called
"energy task force" meetings, did you find that odd, and write to his
sitters to complain?
Nope, I understood that the people who attended the meeting did so only if
their names were not released. They requested this because they did not
want
to become embroiled in political battles.

Interesting discussion, wrong group.

"It's all about boats."


zzzzzzzzzzz........

Collapse the thread. Then you'll only see the first message, which will be
no more of a distraction than any other message.


a.politics is empty. Why not take it there?
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

Fred Dehl wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in
nk.net:


What did we, as humans, do to melt 20 miles of 4000' thick glacier
between 1794 and 1896?


Exhale.

Good point. If we could just stop all those enviromentalists and global
warming alarmists from breathing, think of all the greenhouses gases
that would save.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:25:01 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:39:43 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Some of us are concerned about those substances, and coal-burning plants
aren't the only sources of them.

I'm not and I'll tell you why.

I want the human race to move on - to expand throughout the solar
system and beyond.

The more pollution the better.

And then there is this:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008220

Oh, pshaw. Science can only support Man causing Global warming. Most
likely NOX powered cars at the lead part of the chain.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jeff Rigby wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message


Interesting, but if certain posters here (and I am not hinting you are
one of those) claimed there was no connection between the activities of
man and global warming, I would dismiss those claims out of hand because
of the demonstrated pigheadedness and stupidity of those posters, and
the fact that they have their heads stuck up the butts of the US Chamber
of Commerce.

All things being equal the eco systems of the earth can handle increased
carbon dioxide in the air, in fact life will flourish as plants take up
this nutrient and algae and plants become more prolific. Short term we
might have a moderate increase in temperature, nothing like the 8 degree
swings of the past before we were a factor in planetary terms.


Better scientists than you or I disagree, and believe we are precipitating
global warming to a degree that will lead to disaster.

Do you have the names of any of these scientists?

We should all be much more concerned with the OTHER pollutants like lead,
mercury, cadmium, radium and others that are going into the atmosphere
from coal fired power plants. As far as I am concerned the coal plants
can produce MORE carbon dioxide if they can eliminate the heavy metals
from the stack.

Some of us are concerned about those substances, and coal-burning plants
aren't the only sources of them.



The global warming scare is a political shell game, it's
crap.....Everyone's attention is diverted from the REAL issues.

I disagree. You think it is out there to divert attention away from the
other pollutants? By whom, the polluters? Who?



Harry, tell me why NO-ONE is concerned about these poisons. Why the
attention to a benign gas that IS part of the life cycle. IS NECESSARY
for life to flourish.... and no attention to elements that are not a part
of the life cycle, that pollute the food chain and KILL higher forms of
life.

Do you think you are being manipulated Harry....think about it.... I
know we are and it makes me angry!

We are being manipulated by corporations and their henchmen in Washington
on any number of issues.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jeff Rigby wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message


Interesting, but if certain posters here (and I am not hinting you
are
one of those) claimed there was no connection between the activities
of
man and global warming, I would dismiss those claims out of hand
because
of the demonstrated pigheadedness and stupidity of those posters, and
the fact that they have their heads stuck up the butts of the US
Chamber
of Commerce.

All things being equal the eco systems of the earth can handle
increased
carbon dioxide in the air, in fact life will flourish as plants take
up
this nutrient and algae and plants become more prolific. Short term
we
might have a moderate increase in temperature, nothing like the 8
degree
swings of the past before we were a factor in planetary terms.


Better scientists than you or I disagree, and believe we are
precipitating
global warming to a degree that will lead to disaster.

Do you have the names of any of these scientists?

The same ones that were predicting a new ice age back in the 70's




We should all be much more concerned with the OTHER pollutants like
lead,
mercury, cadmium, radium and others that are going into the atmosphere
from coal fired power plants. As far as I am concerned the coal
plants
can produce MORE carbon dioxide if they can eliminate the heavy metals
from the stack.

Some of us are concerned about those substances, and coal-burning
plants
aren't the only sources of them.



The global warming scare is a political shell game, it's
crap.....Everyone's attention is diverted from the REAL issues.

I disagree. You think it is out there to divert attention away from the
other pollutants? By whom, the polluters? Who?



Harry, tell me why NO-ONE is concerned about these poisons. Why the
attention to a benign gas that IS part of the life cycle. IS
NECESSARY
for life to flourish.... and no attention to elements that are not a
part
of the life cycle, that pollute the food chain and KILL higher forms
of
life.

Do you think you are being manipulated Harry....think about it.... I
know we are and it makes me angry!

We are being manipulated by corporations and their henchmen in
Washington
on any number of issues.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

Jeff Rigby wrote:

The polar regions where most Ice resides, has a high of minus 50 degrees C
in the summer.

The *average* temperature in Antarctica is -37C. Highs
occasionally exceed 0C in some areas.

-rick-

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

Harry, tell me why NO-ONE is concerned about these poisons.

Not true, Jeff. The article below is dumbed down a bit for mass
consumption, and focuses primarily on global warming. But, the groups
behind Spitzer's efforts are equally focused on mercury and other
contaminants.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb2...3-02-21-10.asp
Yes, read the article. It makes my point. The uninformed, Democrats,
Liberals, Everyone but Lieberman (a rational democrat) is concerned
about carbon dioxide. Lieberman is concerned with mercury emissions.
As I've said before, I'd vote for him for president even though I'm a
Republican. Bush is implementing mercury emission standards but he is
SLOWLY implementing them. I'm not happy about that.


When the monkey's staff refused to reveal the attendees at his so-called
"energy task force" meetings, did you find that odd, and write to his
sitters to complain?
Nope, I understood that the people who attended the meeting did so only
if their names were not released. They requested this because they did
not want to become embroiled in political battles.


In that case, you're part of the problem, Jeff. I didn't authorize anyone
from PG&E or Ohio Edison to make regulations for this country. I'm not so
naiive that I don't realize that politicians are advised (and licked
nicely) by captains of industry, but your boy certainly has taken it to
the extreme. The sad part is that nobody really gives a damn. This
country's slumber is enormous.
If you can't get the planners for our energy suppliers to come talk with you
unless their names are withheld from the press then what do you do. Don't
have the meeting?
Get real. The problems is any time someone meets with Cheney or Bush it's
news....and lies and distortions are printed. I blame Bush and his NOT
FIGHTING BACK. Believe it or not, many of us are not happy that criticisms
are not answered in the strongest terms.

The slumber could be caused because the press has cried wolf so many times
and been wrong that they aren't listened to any more.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

Nope, I understood that the people who attended the meeting did so only
if their names were not released.

Well, that's not an option.

The U.S. government has NO right to keep secrets from U.S.
citizens, with a few noteworthy exceptions.

It is NOT legal, under the Constitution, to declare a policy
or policy meeting or policy-makers names secret, just as a
matter of personal preference.



... They requested this because they did
not want to become embroiled in political battles.


That's stupid. By being there, by being friends with Vice
President Cheney, they already WERE "embroiled in political
battles."

Frankly, the only reason to keep it a secret is so as to
keep the profits for an inner circle of Bush-Cheney campaign
contributors.

Do you think this is good for the country?


In that case, you're part of the problem, Jeff. I didn't authorize anyone
from PG&E or Ohio Edison to make regulations for this country.

True

Jeff Rigby wrote:
If you can't get the planners for our energy suppliers to come talk with you
unless their names are withheld from the press then what do you do.

Get other planners who will. Do you think there isn't a long
long list of people, some of whom are not necessarily
motivated by profit over patriotism, who would like to give
high-level advice on national energy policy?

What is NOT acceptable is to drive this country off a cliff,
energy-policy-wise, deliberately increasing dependence on
foreign oil and slashing motivation for alternatives, and
then 5 years later do a sudden about-face & pretend it's all
the liberal's fault.

Oh wait... that *is* acceptable to you and the other
Bush-Cheney Cheerleaders. Gee, I hope you like the result!



Get real. The problems is any time someone meets with Cheney or Bush it's
news....and lies and distortions are printed.

You mean the lies & distortions released by President Bush &
Vice President Cheney?


... Believe it or not, many of us are not happy that criticisms
are not answered in the strongest terms.


You mean like when questioned about his financial conflict
of interest, Vice President Cheney should say something like
"F&^& You!"

Oh wait, he did that.

I find it hard to believe that you don't think the Bush
Administration has reacted strongly enough to criticism.
What do you want them to do, shoot demonstrators & put
Democrats in concentration camps?

DSK

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"-rick-" wrote in message
...
Jeff Rigby wrote:

The polar regions where most Ice resides, has a high of minus 50 degrees
C in the summer.

The *average* temperature in Antarctica is -37C. Highs occasionally exceed
0C in some areas.

-rick-

My brother spent 3 summers at Little America. SeaBee. He said there were
lots of nice days, warm days. Also a few -50 degree days during the summer.
The average also includes the Winter! And the coldest recorded natural
temperature on earth was recorded at the Russian station, and the alcohol
thermometer froze at -125 degrees. I think F.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:19:01 -0400, "Jeff Rigby"
wrote:

Republican. Bush is implementing mercury emission standards but he is
SLOWLY implementing them. I'm not happy about that.


When the monkey's staff refused to reveal the attendees at his so-called
"energy task force" meetings, did you find that odd, and write to his
sitters to complain?
Nope, I understood that the people who attended the meeting did so only if
their names were not released. They requested this because they did not want
to become embroiled in political battles.

Interesting discussion, wrong group.

"It's all about boats."

Yes, Officer Wayne.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

basskisser wrote:
Black Dog wrote:

I have seen almost NO science about climate change. Even in journals
like Nature, climatology has become polluted by politics.


Perhaps you should read some!

I get Nature's email alerts and abstracts. I would love to "read some"
science - if it was there. Like I said - I see no science, just politics.

Global Warming: It Has Stopped
 

"Black Dog" wrote in message
...
basskisser wrote:
Black Dog wrote:

I have seen almost NO science about climate change. Even in journals
like Nature, climatology has become polluted by politics.


Perhaps you should read some!

I get Nature's email alerts and abstracts. I would love to "read some"
science - if it was there. Like I said - I see no science, just politics.

I take it you've read everything ever published on the subject. Right?