JimH wrote:
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
Ed wrote:
It's not the $10. it's the pain of runing the extra wires. Go for the
regular one....

JimH wrote:
I am putting in a 2nd battery on my boat and will need an A/B switch.

Is the field disconnect one (such as this one
http://tinyurl.com/pa9hn )
always the way to go, or is the one that is $10 cheaper but lack field
disconnect a better option? I do not switch to the other battery while
under power.....never have and do not plan to now. The switch will not
be
out in the open for anyone to fool with.

So save the $10 bucks or get the higher priced one?


What extra wires?

The switch in JimH's tiny url is just a make before break switch. You
have only the normal battery connections to deal with. The third option
"All", or "Both" is created not by wiring an additional circuit, but by
the architecture of the switch itself. The cables from the batteries
connect to arc shaped contact plates within the switch. One of the arcs
is closer to the perimeter of the circular shape of the switch than the
other, and these inner and outer arcs overlap a common radius for maybe
an inch or so. Under the top cover there is a straight "pointer" with
two contact that runs parallel to the external handle/indicator. When
battery "A" or "B" is selected by the indicator, the pointer is
positioned so that one of the
two contacts completes a circuit with only the contact plate associated
with battery/bank "A" or battery/bank "B". When "Both" is selected, the
pointer is positioned on the radius where the inner and outer arcs
overlap and both of the contacts on the pointer are engaged to complete
the circuit.

There is very little risk of removing the battery load from the
alternator when the engine is running with a switch like this. To get
to either A or B you must pass through "Both" with the selector, so the
connection to the second battery is "made" before the conection to the
first is "broken". (Make before break). It is useful to exercise the
switch a time or two before relying upon it if the boat has been
sitting long enough that the contact surfaces might have become dirty.

JimH: You can't possibly be thinking of trying to save $10 on a boat
part, can you?
Unless you put your battery switch under lock and key, some dunderhead
will find it and
switch from A or B to "off" while you're underway (with or without your
permission- or the dunderhead might even be you in a moment of
accidental carelessness). Have you priced
replacing the diodes in your alternator? That $10 is comparatively
cheap. :-)

The value of the switch in your URL is that it is easy to charge both
batteries at once when running. You will find cases where this practice
is discouraged, (I think I saw a marine supply company catalog at one
time that suggested it was better to buy two switches, one for each
bank, than a single A/B/Both switch). The pratice is also specifically
encouraged by experts such as Charlie Wing, author of "Boatowner's
Illustrated Electrical Handbook," now in its second edition. Just like
most other things related to boating, there is plenty of room for
differences of opinion on this topic and no shortage of well-reasoned
arguments to support diverse conclusions.

Spend the $10. You can hardly buy a six-pack of any decent beer for
less.

Chuck,
When I read JimH post, I couldn't believe JimH was really worried about
the $10, but was interested in starting an on topic discussion about the
A/B switch.

No, I was actually wondering if I should spend the extra $10. I am not in
the habit of throwing money away.


I would spend the extra $10 as the cheapest insurance policy you will
ever buy. I would assume your kids will probably borrow the boat some,
or you will request someone to go into the bilge to do some work and
they throw the switch, or as you get older and have some senior moments
you just might have a brain fart and throw the switch.

I am curious since you don't believe you need to spend the $10 extra for
the better switch for all the reason you have listed, and you are
familiar with the benefits and features of both switches, what did you
expect to learn from asking rec.boats what switch to buy?
--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
Ed wrote:
It's not the $10. it's the pain of runing the extra wires. Go for
the
regular one....

JimH wrote:
I am putting in a 2nd battery on my boat and will need an A/B switch.

Is the field disconnect one (such as this one
http://tinyurl.com/pa9hn )
always the way to go, or is the one that is $10 cheaper but lack
field
disconnect a better option? I do not switch to the other battery
while
under power.....never have and do not plan to now. The switch will
not be
out in the open for anyone to fool with.

So save the $10 bucks or get the higher priced one?


What extra wires?

The switch in JimH's tiny url is just a make before break switch. You
have only the normal battery connections to deal with. The third option
"All", or "Both" is created not by wiring an additional circuit, but by
the architecture of the switch itself. The cables from the batteries
connect to arc shaped contact plates within the switch. One of the arcs
is closer to the perimeter of the circular shape of the switch than the
other, and these inner and outer arcs overlap a common radius for maybe
an inch or so. Under the top cover there is a straight "pointer" with
two contact that runs parallel to the external handle/indicator. When
battery "A" or "B" is selected by the indicator, the pointer is
positioned so that one of the
two contacts completes a circuit with only the contact plate associated
with battery/bank "A" or battery/bank "B". When "Both" is selected, the
pointer is positioned on the radius where the inner and outer arcs
overlap and both of the contacts on the pointer are engaged to complete
the circuit.

There is very little risk of removing the battery load from the
alternator when the engine is running with a switch like this. To get
to either A or B you must pass through "Both" with the selector, so the
connection to the second battery is "made" before the conection to the
first is "broken". (Make before break). It is useful to exercise the
switch a time or two before relying upon it if the boat has been
sitting long enough that the contact surfaces might have become dirty.

JimH: You can't possibly be thinking of trying to save $10 on a boat
part, can you?
Unless you put your battery switch under lock and key, some dunderhead
will find it and
switch from A or B to "off" while you're underway (with or without your
permission- or the dunderhead might even be you in a moment of
accidental carelessness). Have you priced
replacing the diodes in your alternator? That $10 is comparatively
cheap. :-)

The value of the switch in your URL is that it is easy to charge both
batteries at once when running. You will find cases where this practice
is discouraged, (I think I saw a marine supply company catalog at one
time that suggested it was better to buy two switches, one for each
bank, than a single A/B/Both switch). The pratice is also specifically
encouraged by experts such as Charlie Wing, author of "Boatowner's
Illustrated Electrical Handbook," now in its second edition. Just like
most other things related to boating, there is plenty of room for
differences of opinion on this topic and no shortage of well-reasoned
arguments to support diverse conclusions.

Spend the $10. You can hardly buy a six-pack of any decent beer for
less.

Chuck,
When I read JimH post, I couldn't believe JimH was really worried about
the $10, but was interested in starting an on topic discussion about the
A/B switch.

No, I was actually wondering if I should spend the extra $10. I am not
in the habit of throwing money away.


I am curious since you don't believe you need to spend the $10 extra for
the better switch for all the reason you have listed, and you are familiar
with the benefits and features of both switches, what did you expect to
learn from asking rec.boats what switch to buy?


Why are you curious? I was just asking for the opinions of others.

Why are you turning this into a personal thing Reggie?

JimH wrote:

I am curious since you don't believe you need to spend the $10 extra for
the better switch for all the reason you have listed, and you are familiar
with the benefits and features of both switches, what did you expect to
learn from asking rec.boats what switch to buy?


Why are you curious? I was just asking for the opinions of others.

Why are you turning this into a personal thing Reggie?

What makes you think this is a personal thing? It was meant to be an
honest question. I figure I am missing something obvious as to what you
expected to learn. You do seem to be very well informed about the
features and benefits, and possible dangers of the two Perko switches,
which is why I thought you post was a legitimate post to encourage on
topic discussion.

As I mentioned in my response to Chuck's post, I know I did learn a lot
from his explanation, and was glad you asked the question.

Since you said you wanted to know what others think, I think you should
pay the $10 as cheap insurance.

My post was really not a personal thing at all.


--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:

I am curious since you don't believe you need to spend the $10 extra for
the better switch for all the reason you have listed, and you are
familiar with the benefits and features of both switches, what did you
expect to learn from asking rec.boats what switch to buy?


Why are you curious? I was just asking for the opinions of others.

Why are you turning this into a personal thing Reggie?

What makes you think this is a personal thing? It was meant to be an
honest question. I figure I am missing something obvious as to what you
expected to learn. You do seem to be very well informed about the
features and benefits, and possible dangers of the two Perko switches,
which is why I thought you post was a legitimate post to encourage on
topic discussion.

As I mentioned in my response to Chuck's post, I know I did learn a lot
from his explanation, and was glad you asked the question.

Since you said you wanted to know what others think, I think you should
pay the $10 as cheap insurance.

My post was really not a personal thing at all.


--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

If you notice on the picture, the cheaper $29 switch states (on the switch)
"Stop engines before switching off". The $39 switch says the same thing.

http://tinyurl.com/lath7 $29 switch without field disconnect

http://tinyurl.com/pa9hn $39 switch with field disconnect

A bit confusing.

JimH wrote:
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:

I am curious since you don't believe you need to spend the $10 extra for
the better switch for all the reason you have listed, and you are
familiar with the benefits and features of both switches, what did you
expect to learn from asking rec.boats what switch to buy?

Why are you curious? I was just asking for the opinions of others.

Why are you turning this into a personal thing Reggie?
What makes you think this is a personal thing? It was meant to be an
honest question. I figure I am missing something obvious as to what you
expected to learn. You do seem to be very well informed about the
features and benefits, and possible dangers of the two Perko switches,
which is why I thought you post was a legitimate post to encourage on
topic discussion.

As I mentioned in my response to Chuck's post, I know I did learn a lot
from his explanation, and was glad you asked the question.

Since you said you wanted to know what others think, I think you should
pay the $10 as cheap insurance.

My post was really not a personal thing at all.


--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

If you notice on the picture, the cheaper $29 switch states (on the switch)
"Stop engines before switching off". The $39 switch says the same thing.

http://tinyurl.com/lath7 $29 switch without field disconnect

http://tinyurl.com/pa9hn $39 switch with field disconnect

A bit confusing.


That probably is the reason why I thought you had to stop the engine
before changing batteries. Chuck's response (if correct, and it
probably is) says this is not normally necessary, unless the contact
points have become oxidized, which is probably more of a problem in salt
water.

My guess is Perko placed that on the "make/break" $39 switch for legal
reasons. They do not want to pay for a new electrical system if the
switch has become oxidized.

--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
. ..
JimH wrote:
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:

I am curious since you don't believe you need to spend the $10 extra
for the better switch for all the reason you have listed, and you are
familiar with the benefits and features of both switches, what did you
expect to learn from asking rec.boats what switch to buy?

Why are you curious? I was just asking for the opinions of others.

Why are you turning this into a personal thing Reggie?
What makes you think this is a personal thing? It was meant to be an
honest question. I figure I am missing something obvious as to what you
expected to learn. You do seem to be very well informed about the
features and benefits, and possible dangers of the two Perko switches,
which is why I thought you post was a legitimate post to encourage on
topic discussion.

As I mentioned in my response to Chuck's post, I know I did learn a lot
from his explanation, and was glad you asked the question.

Since you said you wanted to know what others think, I think you should
pay the $10 as cheap insurance.

My post was really not a personal thing at all.


--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

If you notice on the picture, the cheaper $29 switch states (on the
switch) "Stop engines before switching off". The $39 switch says the
same thing.

http://tinyurl.com/lath7 $29 switch without field disconnect

http://tinyurl.com/pa9hn $39 switch with field disconnect

A bit confusing.
That probably is the reason why I thought you had to stop the engine
before changing batteries. Chuck's response (if correct, and it probably
is) says this is not normally necessary, unless the contact points have
become oxidized, which is probably more of a problem in salt water.

My guess is Perko placed that on the "make/break" $39 switch for legal
reasons. They do not want to pay for a new electrical system if the
switch has become oxidized.

--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

But the cheaper switch does not say "Stop engines before moving switch",
only "before switching *off*".

So can it in fact be switched to either battery or to both while the engine
is running?

JimH wrote:
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:

I am curious since you don't believe you need to spend the $10 extra for
the better switch for all the reason you have listed, and you are
familiar with the benefits and features of both switches, what did you
expect to learn from asking rec.boats what switch to buy?


Why are you curious? I was just asking for the opinions of others.

Why are you turning this into a personal thing Reggie?

What makes you think this is a personal thing? It was meant to be an
honest question. I figure I am missing something obvious as to what you
expected to learn. You do seem to be very well informed about the
features and benefits, and possible dangers of the two Perko switches,
which is why I thought you post was a legitimate post to encourage on
topic discussion.

As I mentioned in my response to Chuck's post, I know I did learn a lot
from his explanation, and was glad you asked the question.

Since you said you wanted to know what others think, I think you should
pay the $10 as cheap insurance.

My post was really not a personal thing at all.


--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

If you notice on the picture, the cheaper $29 switch states (on the switch)
"Stop engines before switching off". The $39 switch says the same thing.

http://tinyurl.com/lath7 $29 switch without field disconnect

http://tinyurl.com/pa9hn $39 switch with field disconnect

A bit confusing.

Good point.
With either switch you should stop the engine (actually the alternator)
before turning the switch to "off". That's a different proposition than
switching from Bank A to Bank B. It only takes a second to damage you
alternator if it's generating power and there is nowhere for the power
to go.

You can still combine or isolate banks with two individual switches,
but you have to throw them in an exact sequence (far more complex than
a make before break switch) in order to assure that you don't
disconnect your batteries entirely from a running alternator. For
example, if you are charging bank A and you want to charge bank B, you
*must* turn on bank B before you turn off bank A. Ignorance of or
inattention to this detail could easily cost you a $200 alternator.

Switching from one bank to another while the engine is running would
require *two* "A/B only" switches, thereby eliminating the perceived
savings of $10.

wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:

I am curious since you don't believe you need to spend the $10 extra
for
the better switch for all the reason you have listed, and you are
familiar with the benefits and features of both switches, what did
you
expect to learn from asking rec.boats what switch to buy?


Why are you curious? I was just asking for the opinions of others.

Why are you turning this into a personal thing Reggie?

What makes you think this is a personal thing? It was meant to be an
honest question. I figure I am missing something obvious as to what
you
expected to learn. You do seem to be very well informed about the
features and benefits, and possible dangers of the two Perko switches,
which is why I thought you post was a legitimate post to encourage on
topic discussion.

As I mentioned in my response to Chuck's post, I know I did learn a lot
from his explanation, and was glad you asked the question.

Since you said you wanted to know what others think, I think you should
pay the $10 as cheap insurance.

My post was really not a personal thing at all.


--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

If you notice on the picture, the cheaper $29 switch states (on the
switch)
"Stop engines before switching off". The $39 switch says the same thing.

http://tinyurl.com/lath7 $29 switch without field disconnect

http://tinyurl.com/pa9hn $39 switch with field disconnect

A bit confusing.

Good point.
With either switch you should stop the engine (actually the alternator)
before turning the switch to "off". That's a different proposition than
switching from Bank A to Bank B. It only takes a second to damage you
alternator if it's generating power and there is nowhere for the power
to go.

You can still combine or isolate banks with two individual switches,
but you have to throw them in an exact sequence (far more complex than
a make before break switch) in order to assure that you don't
disconnect your batteries entirely from a running alternator. For
example, if you are charging bank A and you want to charge bank B, you
*must* turn on bank B before you turn off bank A. Ignorance of or
inattention to this detail could easily cost you a $200 alternator.

Switching from one bank to another while the engine is running would
require *two* "A/B only" switches, thereby eliminating the perceived
savings of $10.


Have you ever dealt with ProMariner battery switches?

http://tinyurl.com/krkkl

I can save the $10 and still get field disconnect.

JimH wrote:



Have you ever dealt with ProMariner battery switches?

http://tinyurl.com/krkkl

I can save the $10 and still get field disconnect.

I lean toward Perko from years of successful operation, or toward Blue
Sea from what I know about their products in general. ProMariner may be
fine as well, but I would have to admit that I have a personal
prejudice toward that trademark as I once owned a ProMariner battery
charger that cooked the living stink out of some batteries.

If I were going to buy a new swtich today, my choice might be:

http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?P...58&l1=7458&l2=

Blue Sea also has a new design, the E-Series, and that switch won some
sort of award for innovation in 2005. Might also be worth a look.

They also offer a "field disconnect" model, (or you can install a "Zap
Stop", and that doesn't require any wiring except on the back of the
alternator itself).