Steve Cramer wrote:
Melissa wrote:

The Yakima racks with "Stackers" should be able to fit two boats very
securely on your car with the 48' cross bars, but if you want, I see
no problem with getting the 58 inch bars (I use 58 inch bars on my
Subaru GL wagon, and I've carried two single and one tandem sea
kayaks on it without any problem). Most of the time, however, I just
carry one or two singles, both in the old TLC cradles (these work
better with my hard chine boats than the newer "Mako" cradles). I
tried the Mako cradles at one point, and returned them right away.

Now, I too have been told that we *shouldn't* use cross bars that
extend beyond the sides of the car, but I've been using my long bars
for many years now, and 1) they've been very useful in that
configuration, and 2) I haven't yet been arrested for it. :-)


58" bars are the minimum for serious boaters, I think.

Excuse me? So now, the "seriousness" of a kayaker is measured by the
length of the bars on their roof rack? What kind of ridiculous statement
is that?

One should purchase the bars that fit their car and carrying needs, not
some arbitrary length that you deem worthy. I easily fit 2, 16'-19' sea
kayaks and a paddle case (or two bikes) on 48" bars, which happens to be
the size that fits my car best. Extra bar length would be nothing more
than a hazard.

The issue isn't
so much getting arresting as clipping something, say a passing car or a
McDonalds's drivethrough window, with the end of the bar.

How about you or a pedestrian whacking their head on the protruding end?
I'll bet if you asked rack manufacturers, that would be their #1
concern, since McDonald's drivethrough windows can't sue them.

Rule of thumb:
bar ends--and anything mounted on the bars--should not extend past the
end of your mirrors.

That seems reasonable, though local laws may not allow it.

The old vertical bar Yakima stackers are the best, the new vertical bar
stackers are about as good. Avoid the inverted U's, they will not stay
upright. OP was going to haul rec boats. Fine, slap them on the bars
edgewise and head out. Just tie them down to each bar plus bow and stern.

I would never use stackers for carrying sea kayaks, nor would I use
J-cradles. Neither holds the boat as securely as standard cradles and
both put more stress on the rack, due to the leverage they create and
the increased sail area of boats sitting on their sides.

It seems obvious the word "serious" pertains to being ready for any
hauling,strapping,tying, what have you situation, for some trips overkill,
and very much needed for others. I really do not think she meant you , me,
or anyone else was "less" of a paddler because we have shorter
bars.........bar envy anyone? lol
Gosh but I hate Political Correctness

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:h1WSf.862$3t1.238@trndny08...
Steve Cramer wrote:
Melissa wrote:

The Yakima racks with "Stackers" should be able to fit two boats very
securely on your car with the 48' cross bars, but if you want, I see
no problem with getting the 58 inch bars (I use 58 inch bars on my
Subaru GL wagon, and I've carried two single and one tandem sea
kayaks on it without any problem). Most of the time, however, I just
carry one or two singles, both in the old TLC cradles (these work
better with my hard chine boats than the newer "Mako" cradles). I
tried the Mako cradles at one point, and returned them right away.

Now, I too have been told that we *shouldn't* use cross bars that
extend beyond the sides of the car, but I've been using my long bars
for many years now, and 1) they've been very useful in that
configuration, and 2) I haven't yet been arrested for it. :-)


58" bars are the minimum for serious boaters, I think.

Excuse me? So now, the "seriousness" of a kayaker is measured by the
length of the bars on their roof rack? What kind of ridiculous statement
is that?

One should purchase the bars that fit their car and carrying needs, not
some arbitrary length that you deem worthy. I easily fit 2, 16'-19' sea
kayaks and a paddle case (or two bikes) on 48" bars, which happens to be
the size that fits my car best. Extra bar length would be nothing more
than a hazard.

The issue isn't
so much getting arresting as clipping something, say a passing car or a

McDonalds's drivethrough window, with the end of the bar.

How about you or a pedestrian whacking their head on the protruding end?
I'll bet if you asked rack manufacturers, that would be their #1
concern, since McDonald's drivethrough windows can't sue them.

Rule of thumb:
bar ends--and anything mounted on the bars--should not extend past the
end of your mirrors.

That seems reasonable, though local laws may not allow it.

The old vertical bar Yakima stackers are the best, the new vertical bar
stackers are about as good. Avoid the inverted U's, they will not stay
upright. OP was going to haul rec boats. Fine, slap them on the bars
edgewise and head out. Just tie them down to each bar plus bow and
stern.

I would never use stackers for carrying sea kayaks, nor would I use
J-cradles. Neither holds the boat as securely as standard cradles and
both put more stress on the rack, due to the leverage they create and
the increased sail area of boats sitting on their sides.

Brian Nystrom wrote:
Steve Cramer wrote:

Melissa wrote:

The Yakima racks with "Stackers" should be able to fit two boats very
securely on your car with the 48' cross bars, but if you want, I see
no problem with getting the 58 inch bars (I use 58 inch bars on my
Subaru GL wagon, and I've carried two single and one tandem sea
kayaks on it without any problem). Most of the time, however, I just
carry one or two singles, both in the old TLC cradles (these work
better with my hard chine boats than the newer "Mako" cradles). I
tried the Mako cradles at one point, and returned them right away.

Now, I too have been told that we *shouldn't* use cross bars that
extend beyond the sides of the car, but I've been using my long bars
for many years now, and 1) they've been very useful in that
configuration, and 2) I haven't yet been arrested for it. :-)

58" bars are the minimum for serious boaters, I think.

Excuse me? So now, the "seriousness" of a kayaker is measured by the
length of the bars on their roof rack? What kind of ridiculous statement
is that?

It's the one I made, OK? Jesus, Brian, don't you have better things to
get exercised about?

One should purchase the bars that fit their car and carrying needs, not
some arbitrary length that you deem worthy. I easily fit 2, 16'-19' sea
kayaks and a paddle case (or two bikes) on 48" bars, which happens to be
the size that fits my car best. Extra bar length would be nothing more
than a hazard.

Unless you needed more space, which many of us, who carry 4--count 'em,
4--16-19 foot boats, or 5-6 WW boats, or two open canoes on the roof
sometimes do. Thereby requiring one half the number of cars to drive to
the put-in. I need 58" bars because I paddle a lot of different boats
and types of water with a lot of people. Folks around here consider me a
serious boater (and that's the word I used, BTW, not "kayaker," which is
more limited) partly because of that, not because of the length of the bars.

To you statement that bars should fit one's car and carrying needs, my
only response can be "Duh!"

The issue isn't so much getting arresting as clipping something, say a
passing car or a McDonalds's drivethrough window, with the end of the
bar.

How about you or a pedestrian whacking their head on the protruding end?
I'll bet if you asked rack manufacturers, that would be their #1
concern, since McDonald's drivethrough windows can't sue them.

Read the next paragraph. Your pedestrian would have to be walking inside
my mirrors. Yes, my passengers have on occasion bumped their heads. But
they are capable of learning, and typically don't do it more than twice.
AFAIK, there has been no brain damage, but I'll keep watcing for it and
tell you as soon as some crops up.

Rule of thumb: bar ends--and anything mounted on the bars--should not
extend past the end of your mirrors.

That seems reasonable, though local laws may not allow it.

See, Brian, if you'd read another 2 lines before shooting off your
keyboard, you'd have seen that my bar length is totally reasonable. To
be honest, I don't know what our local laws allow. A search of the
Official Code of Georgia, Annotated, for combinations of car,
automobile, motor vehicle, rack and/or overhang didn't produce anything.
All I know is, the police have ignored my bars for many years now.

Now let's talk about your car with 2 kayaks in cradles @ a minimum of
20" each, plus two bicycles. Unless your handlebars are only 4" wide,
you're running a wider load than 48". If they were mountain bikes,
probably over 58". Makes your quibbling over bar length look silly,
doesn't it?

The old vertical bar Yakima stackers are the best, the new vertical
bar stackers are about as good. Avoid the inverted U's, they will not
stay upright. OP was going to haul rec boats. Fine, slap them on the
bars edgewise and head out. Just tie them down to each bar plus bow
and stern.

I would never use stackers for carrying sea kayaks, nor would I use
J-cradles. Neither holds the boat as securely as standard cradles and
both put more stress on the rack, due to the leverage they create and
the increased sail area of boats sitting on their sides.

You may be right about that. I've only been doing it for 6-7 years, so
perhaps I have yet to experience the problems you mention. When I tie my
boats down, they're about as secure as I can imagine them being, and
yes, I have used cradles at times, which seem to allow for a little more
"float". I don't see why stackers create more leverage than cradles,
although I agree that they do increase the sail area.

Let me restate the point I was trying to make in response to Melissa's
mention of her 58" bars, which she manages to fill up on occasion: Being
legal is good, being safe is much more important. I think Melissa is
driving safely, at least I certainly hope so. Be safe, Brian.

Steve

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Melissa wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

The Yakima racks with "Stackers" should be able to fit two boats very
securely on your car with the 48' cross bars, but if you want, I see
no problem with getting the 58 inch bars (I use 58 inch bars on my
Subaru GL wagon, and I've carried two single and one tandem sea
kayaks on it without any problem). Most of the time, however, I just
carry one or two singles, both in the old TLC cradles (these work
better with my hard chine boats than the newer "Mako" cradles). I
tried the Mako cradles at one point, and returned them right away.

Now, I too have been told that we *shouldn't* use cross bars that
extend beyond the sides of the car, but I've been using my long bars
for many years now, and 1) they've been very useful in that
configuration, and 2) I haven't yet been arrested for it. :-)

I've used my current roofrack on the last three cars I've had (a Ford
Focus wagon and two different Skoda Octavia's (same size platform as the
VW Golf). It's 160cm (roughly 63") wide, which allows for five playboats
and a set of paddles in the paddle holders. A pictu
http://kayaker.nl/kam-oct.jpg

I've been stopped at the German Czech border once, because according to
the Czech borderguard they were too wide. I asked him what the problem
was, since although they are sticking out over the roof, they aren't
outside the body of the car. Then the German borderguard came up and
made the remark that as long as they don't stick out beyond the side of
the vehicle, it's not an issue. The shape of the roof doesn't matter.

It's impossible to catch a pedestrian, bicyclist or MacDonalds counter
with them unless they are already going under my wheels. In that case, I
doubt that anyone is going to bother about the roofrack, but that the
driving style will be what gets me into trouble. :-)

Sure, I've had people bump their heads into it, but as long as they
don't damage my roofrack, I don't care! ;-)

Also, I tend to drive quite fast on the German highways (no speeed
limit), with a full complement of boats on top the car has no problem
doing 200km/h (125mph). Even having had to slam on the brakes
occasionally, I've had no problem with either the boats or the roofrack
coming off.

Granted, people tend to be a lot more disciplined while driving at high
speed there, and in case anyone wipes out at the average driving speed
there, there's a lot more than only boats flying around...

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

We found that to carry a Dagger Dimension WW canoe and a Yakima Spacecase
(old fiberglass one) 58" bars were a couple inches too short. Our solution
was the yellow gas pipe, cheaper and it's the right pipe size. This is all
on a '93 Sidekick with fake gutters mounted on the sides. If I remember
correctly, the weight load rating on a roof mounted system, either factory
or Yakima, was less than the canoe or Spacecase as each weigh in around 80
lbs. We've used this system for 13 yrs of many road/river miles without
problems.

Carol

krueger wrote:
We found that to carry a Dagger Dimension WW canoe and a Yakima Spacecase
(old fiberglass one) 58" bars were a couple inches too short. Our solution
was the yellow gas pipe, cheaper and it's the right pipe size. This is all
on a '93 Sidekick with fake gutters mounted on the sides. If I remember
correctly, the weight load rating on a roof mounted system, either factory
or Yakima, was less than the canoe or Spacecase as each weigh in around 80
lbs. We've used this system for 13 yrs of many road/river miles without
problems.

Carol

Yellow gas pipe? Please tell more. Can you use it as the crossbars or
just as extensions to the existing Yakima ones? I'd actually like the
yellow bars if possible just from an asthetic standpoint.

Thanks,
Dominic