Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

Bill Tuthill wrote:
Michael Daly wrote:

I assume you use a fairly high stroke (steep shaft angle). I get same with
50-60 degrees with a high stroke. For a low stroke, I drop it down to about
25-30 degrees (advantage in having a fully adjustable paddle - but the reason
I don't know the exact feather angles is that I don't measure them)

Do you have a Werner touring paddle, or something else?

You have observed what I have tried to explain here recently but what
seems lost on most paddlers. Similarly, if you use a low stroke with an
unfeathered paddle, then your control hand does the same - your wrist
bends down to set the blade position on the non-control side.


Right. That makes sense. I believe Brian Nystrom has to post a movie
on the web (or at least still-picture series) before I can comprehend
what he's talking about here.

How difficult is it to comprehend "don't grip the paddle"? I'm at a loss
as to why people who are used to feathered paddles have such a hard time
grasping the concept, but you're not the only one. I guess old habits
die hard.

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

On 15-Mar-2006, Bill Tuthill wrote:

Do you have a Werner touring paddle, or something else?

Lendal with both length and feather adjustment. The length adjustment
comes with feather adjustment but I never use it. I haven't found that I
use any length but the shortest.

Right. That makes sense. I believe Brian Nystrom has to post a movie
on the web (or at least still-picture series) before I can comprehend
what he's talking about here.

I know what Brian's talking about. He is correct when he says that you
don't need a control hand with an unfeathered paddle*. However, most
paddlers continue to use the control hand concept regardless of paddle
type. Hence, they are stating a myth that no wrist action is involved
for unfeathered.

When I teach paddling strokes, I specifically teach paddlers to restrict the
use of a control hand. Use it for a forward stroke as required but never
for bracing, sculling etc. In the latter cases, any control is by the hand
closest to the blade in the water. If you get used to that concept, you don't have
as much of a problem switching between feathered and unfeathered paddles.
I also show them how to set up an adjustable paddle for a forward stroke that
doesn't need any wrist action at all.

*There are paddles that don't work well with no control hand even if unfeathered.
Those with odd blades and certain bent shafts can get away from you unless
you use a bit of control - they don't tend to line up nicely with the flow over the
blade by themselves. Those would be in the minority.

Mike

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

Michael Daly wrote:
On 15-Mar-2006, Bill Tuthill wrote:


Do you have a Werner touring paddle, or something else?


Lendal with both length and feather adjustment. The length adjustment
comes with feather adjustment but I never use it. I haven't found that I
use any length but the shortest.


Right. That makes sense. I believe Brian Nystrom has to post a movie
on the web (or at least still-picture series) before I can comprehend
what he's talking about here.


I know what Brian's talking about. He is correct when he says that you
don't need a control hand with an unfeathered paddle*. However, most
paddlers continue to use the control hand concept regardless of paddle
type. Hence, they are stating a myth that no wrist action is involved
for unfeathered.

No, YOU are starting a myth that one cannot paddle unfeathered without
flexing one's wrists. I agree that people who start out paddling
feathered have a hard time letting go of the control hand concept, but
I've done it and I know a few other people who have, so to claim that it
can't be done or isn't done is nonsense. The problem you describe is a
residual one from feathered paddling, not an innate charactertistic of
unfeathered paddling.

When I teach paddling strokes, I specifically teach paddlers to restrict the
use of a control hand. Use it for a forward stroke as required but never
for bracing, sculling etc. In the latter cases, any control is by the hand
closest to the blade in the water.

As it should be. It's one of the paradoxes of using a feathered paddle.
Maintaining a control hand makes bracing, sculling and rolling far more
difficult than necessary. I'm convinced that the "onside/offside"
concept is largely due to the use of feathered paddle and the
difficulties their asymmetry presents. While it obviously can be
overcome, many people struggle for years to do so.

If you get used to that concept, you don't have
as much of a problem switching between feathered and unfeathered paddles.
I also show them how to set up an adjustable paddle for a forward stroke that
doesn't need any wrist action at all.

That's easy, take the feather out. ;-)

*There are paddles that don't work well with no control hand even if unfeathered.
Those with odd blades and certain bent shafts can get away from you unless
you use a bit of control - they don't tend to line up nicely with the flow over the
blade by themselves. Those would be in the minority.

I don't doubt that at all, though I haven't experienced it personally.
It would seem to indicate a poor paddle design. However, if a paddle
needs control, one can simply control the paddle with both hands
alternately, rather than one. That's what a person who paddles without a
control hand instinctively does in conditions that demand firm control
of the paddle. Again, it eliminates the asymmetry of using a single
control hand.

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

On 16-Mar-2006, Brian Nystrom wrote:

No, YOU are starting a myth that one cannot paddle unfeathered without
flexing one's wrists.

I believe I have qualified my statements that this occurs with control hand use,
not otherwise. However, I find there are very few paddlers in this neck of the
woods that _don't_ use a control hand. The concept of control hand seems
to be ubiquitous and when I teach no-control-hand techniques, I get strange
stares from students that indicate that I am being heretical. YMMV.

Mike

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

You speaking of the new Lendal paddles? I have a 4 year old Riot WW
paddle.....LENDAL made the shafts for them, and it's may absolute favorite,
broke 2 werners and a sidewinder. This one is a bent shaft, very very tough!
I did recently see at a shop the new Lendal where you separately purchase
the sharf and blades, everything adjustable....I am reluctant to paddle WW
with a multi-piece paddle, so am awaiting feedback, but that concept would
seem very suited to a touring paddle.


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...

On 15-Mar-2006, Bill Tuthill wrote:

Do you have a Werner touring paddle, or something else?

Lendal with both length and feather adjustment. The length adjustment
comes with feather adjustment but I never use it. I haven't found that I
use any length but the shortest.

Right. That makes sense. I believe Brian Nystrom has to post a movie
on the web (or at least still-picture series) before I can comprehend
what he's talking about here.

I know what Brian's talking about. He is correct when he says that you
don't need a control hand with an unfeathered paddle*. However, most
paddlers continue to use the control hand concept regardless of paddle
type. Hence, they are stating a myth that no wrist action is involved
for unfeathered.

When I teach paddling strokes, I specifically teach paddlers to restrict
the
use of a control hand. Use it for a forward stroke as required but never
for bracing, sculling etc. In the latter cases, any control is by the
hand
closest to the blade in the water. If you get used to that concept, you
don't have
as much of a problem switching between feathered and unfeathered paddles.
I also show them how to set up an adjustable paddle for a forward stroke
that
doesn't need any wrist action at all.

*There are paddles that don't work well with no control hand even if
unfeathered.
Those with odd blades and certain bent shafts can get away from you unless
you use a bit of control - they don't tend to line up nicely with the flow
over the
blade by themselves. Those would be in the minority.

Mike

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

On 16-Mar-2006, "Grip" wrote:

You speaking of the new Lendal paddles?

I have the older design - I bought when the Paddlok system came out.
No one had experience with the Paddlok so I stayed away.

I did recently see at a shop the new Lendal where you separately purchase
the sharf and blades, everything adjustable....I am reluctant to paddle WW
with a multi-piece paddle, so am awaiting feedback, but that concept would
seem very suited to a touring paddle.

I used such a Lendal on a trip once - four days sea kayaking. The Paddlok joints
are pretty solid - no flex that I noticed. It is neat to be able to buy one shaft
and two or more different blades and change on the fly. I think that for most
folks, the compact size when taken apart makes them ideal for travelling or
storing as a spare paddle - especially if you need to store one inside a
WW kayak.

Are they tough enough to handle rock bashing WW? I don't know. I would
not be concerned with them for most other paddling, though.

Mike

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

Michael Daly wrote:
On 16-Mar-2006, Brian Nystrom wrote:


No, YOU are starting a myth that one cannot paddle unfeathered without
flexing one's wrists.


I believe I have qualified my statements that this occurs with control hand use,
not otherwise. However, I find there are very few paddlers in this neck of the
woods that _don't_ use a control hand. The concept of control hand seems
to be ubiquitous and when I teach no-control-hand techniques, I get strange
stares from students that indicate that I am being heretical. YMMV.

As I said before, old habits die hard. Kudos to you for being brave
enough to buck the trend and teach alternate methods.

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

It does not surprise me that there was no flex in the pPadlok system you
used, one of my spare breakdown paddles is a riot also ( I believe the shaft
is also by Lendal ), is a 4 piece so will fit into virtually any boat, and
although a bit heavy, when put together, is very solid, and at $100. hard to
beat. They do make the Paddlok in a WW version as well.
"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...

On 16-Mar-2006, "Grip" wrote:

You speaking of the new Lendal paddles?

I have the older design - I bought when the Paddlok system came out.
No one had experience with the Paddlok so I stayed away.

I did recently see at a shop the new Lendal where you separately
purchase
the sharf and blades, everything adjustable....I am reluctant to paddle
WW
with a multi-piece paddle, so am awaiting feedback, but that concept
would
seem very suited to a touring paddle.

I used such a Lendal on a trip once - four days sea kayaking. The Paddlok
joints
are pretty solid - no flex that I noticed. It is neat to be able to buy
one shaft
and two or more different blades and change on the fly. I think that for
most
folks, the compact size when taken apart makes them ideal for travelling
or
storing as a spare paddle - especially if you need to store one inside a
WW kayak.

Are they tough enough to handle rock bashing WW? I don't know. I would
not be concerned with them for most other paddling, though.

Mike