Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

Nice guy! Sheeesh, there is no "self proclaiming" about it! As I'm sure YOU
do, I do what I do which alot of WW, before I got that bug I sea kayaked for
a couple of years, so I'm not generalizing, but trying to be helpful to a
fellow paddler and have the experience to attempt so. I also support the
flat water side of our club, and look down on NO one, not even rafters and
rec boaters! So save the retorts for someone else thank you, and may your
feather always be 90 degrees
"John Fereira" wrote in message
.. .
"Grip" wrote in
:

You'll simply have to try it. I had the tennis elbow thing once too,
but paddling did not hurt it further, and I'm an aggresive white water
guy. Sea kayaking is far more controlled ( well can be , some are very
aggresive there as well ).

I love it when self-proclaimed white water kayaker make generalaties about
sea kayaking...but that's not going to stop me from generalizing about ww
kayaking. One thing that sea kayakers, even those that regularly paddle
what might be considered "intermediate" conditions, have to deal with more
than ww kayakers is the wind. Even on a reasonable small lake the effect
of
the wind can be much greater than on a river, primarily due to the fetch
across the water. For that reason, most sea kayakers use feathered
paddles
(I'm not sure why most ww paddles are feathered at all) so that when a
forward stroke is taken the out-of-water blade cuts through the air rather
than pushing it with each stroke. Otherwise, when paddling for several
hours in a strong wind, it can put quite a bit of pressure on the wrists.
Even with a feathered paddle and using good torso rotation rather than
"arm
paddling" the cumulative effect of strong winds blowing on the blade can
have an effect after a long day.

Unfortunately, using a feathered paddle can excaserbate wrist problems as
well if one uses only their control hand, bending the wrist to it's
maximum
range to control the feather on the offside blade.

I've seen lots of experienced paddlers attribute wrist problems to the
paddle (specifically, the feather angle on the paddle) or that getting the
"right" paddle will cure wrist problems. I, however, believe that
technique
more than the choice of paddle influences whether or not might have wrist
problems.

"Maurice M" wrote in message
...
your scaring me now,

looks like I'll have to give tennis away for an extended period
because of a tennis/golfers elbow that wont heal and I was hoping to
get into sea kayaking pretty seriously (boat hunting at the moment).

does anyone have an opinion if paddling would aggravate this sort of
injury? (I think I really know the answer but I'm hoping someone will
say its a completely different muscle group/ rotation mechanism etc
g)

I still swim a few klms per week and the shoulders hold up ok to that
although breaststroke pings the ol' elbow too much for comfort.

maurice
wannabe sea kayaker

"Adolphe Menjou" "Adolphe wrote in message
...
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Boxers damage their brains

Runners wear out their knees.

Mountain bikers break collarbones.

What about paddlers?

Shoulder injuries, for sure... but what else?

I'm thinking about my vertebrae when I paddle - on every stroke, I
visualize them grinding back and forth as I twist my trunk, maybe
wearing out the cartilage like a runner wears out the knees/hips.
Is there anything to this?

Other typical injuries?
--
PeteCresswell

Arthritis in the shoulders and elbows.

JAM

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

John Fereira wrote:
...One thing that sea kayakers, even those that regularly paddle
what might be considered "intermediate" conditions, have to deal with more
than ww kayakers is the wind.

For that reason, most sea kayakers use feathered paddles.

I'm not sure how true that actually is. The use of unfeathered paddles
seems to have increased dramatically in the past few years.

(I'm not sure why most ww paddles are feathered at all)

It was originally done to help the paddle clear gates in whitewater
racing. Again, in the past few years, the trend in feather angles used
by whitewater paddlers has changed dramatically, with many using little
(10 degrees) or no feather now.

...so that when a
forward stroke is taken the out-of-water blade cuts through the air rather
than pushing it with each stroke. Otherwise, when paddling for several
hours in a strong wind, it can put quite a bit of pressure on the wrists.

Unfortunately, the common 45-75 degree angles used by sea kayakers cause
one blade to lift and the other to dive when paddling into headwinds and
with tailwinds. They also catch beam winds in the same inconsistent
manner. The stronger the wind, the harder these things are to control.
This can create significant stresses on the paddler, reducing the
benefit of reduced drag on the paddle from feathering.

In contrast, an unfeathered paddle has more drag, but it's consistent
and predictable.

Even with a feathered paddle and using good torso rotation rather than "arm
paddling" the cumulative effect of strong winds blowing on the blade can
have an effect after a long day.

Yup.

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

Per Brian Nystrom:
The use of unfeathered paddles
seems to have increased dramatically in the past few years.

I switched to unfeathered when I started getting tendonitis in my control hand.

I still flip it back to feathered if the wind picks up enough. Takes about 20
strokes to get back in the groove...
--
PeteCresswell

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:25:12 GMT, Brian Nystrom
wrote:

(snipped)

In contrast, an unfeathered paddle has more drag, but it's consistent
and predictable.

That's why I prefer unfeathered. My WW kayak (which I use as a rec
kayak) came with a feathered paddle. I found it seemed to catch more
wind. And, if not careful, waves, which are even more dangerous to
stability to catch. Unfeathered is much better for me. For my very
low volume rec kayak, I bought a paddle that gave 3 choices of
feathering, and I leave it at unfeathered all the time I paddle.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.
Really.

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

....stuff deleted
For that reason, most sea kayakers use feathered paddles.

I'm not sure how true that actually is. The use of unfeathered paddles
seems to have increased dramatically in the past few years.


I stopped using feathered paddles when I began paddling in storms. The blade
was always catching a lot of air (between the blade and the water surface)
and was, at times, nearly touqued out of my hands (it did put a
twisting/lifting motion to the blade). I unfeathered the paddle then and
there and never went back. I think my roll is better with a feathered
paddle, but since I don't plan to do my paddling upside down, this is a
small tradeoff (grin) that is overcome with practice.

(I'm not sure why most ww paddles are feathered at all)

It was originally done to help the paddle clear gates in whitewater
racing. Again, in the past few years, the trend in feather angles used by
whitewater paddlers has changed dramatically, with many using little (10
degrees) or no feather now.

...so that when a forward stroke is taken the out-of-water blade cuts
through the air rather than pushing it with each stroke. Otherwise, when
paddling for several hours in a strong wind, it can put quite a bit of
pressure on the wrists.


Feathered paddles require a lot of wrist rotation, another reason not to use
them, especially on multi-day or extended trips. A little tendinitis goes a
long way.

Unfortunately, the common 45-75 degree angles used by sea kayakers cause
one blade to lift and the other to dive when paddling into headwinds and
with tailwinds. They also catch beam winds in the same inconsistent
manner. The stronger the wind, the harder these things are to control.
This can create significant stresses on the paddler, reducing the benefit
of reduced drag on the paddle from feathering.


Sure do. The only time I found a feathered paddle to be an advantage is when
paddling into headwinds. Any other condition, the unfeathered paddle wins,
hands down.

In contrast, an unfeathered paddle has more drag, but it's consistent and
predictable.

....stuff deleted (because I agree, too)

Rick

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

On 9-Mar-2006, "Rick" wrote:

Feathered paddles require a lot of wrist rotation, another reason not to use
them, especially on multi-day or extended trips. A little tendinitis goes a
long way.

Only if the feather is not selected to suit the paddling style. Large feather
angles will require large wrist rotation.

Unfeathered paddles, contrary to popular misconception, require wrist rotation.
However, it is small and opposite that required for a large feather angles.

I use both feathered and unfeathered paddles (former a Lendal Archipelago w/
bent shaft set to approx 30 degree feather; latter a Greenland-style paddle).
If I get into a serious wind, I switch to my spare storm paddle with a sliding
stroke. Regardless of paddle, I don't notice the problems that most people
complain about. Matching the paddle to the technique seems to solve them.

Mike

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

Michael Daly wrote:

Unfeathered paddles, contrary to popular misconception, require wrist rotation.
However, it is small and opposite that required for a large feather angles.

I beg to differ on this point. I find that using an unfeathered paddle -
with a loose grip on BOTH hands - requires no wrist rotation at all. The
key is to NOT use a control hand. I find that people who are used to
paddling with feathered paddles often have a hard time grasping this
concept (pun intended), since a control hand is an integral part of
feathered paddling technique. It takes some "unlearning" to get used to
not gripping the paddle on one side or the other.

When I paddled with an unfeathered Euro, I simply let the paddle float
in my hands and let the blade find it's own orientation in the water.
The fingers on the lower hand merely hooked the shaft and the upper hand
was relaxed and merely pushing.

With a GP, I use the the typical canted stroke, which is guided by a
straight wrist position and the pressure of the fingers wrapped around
the shoulders of the blades. Again, my hands are relaxed and not
gripping the paddle at all, the lower fingers hooking and the upper hand
pushing.

Of course, this is all for paddling in normal conditions. Gripping the
paddle is obviously necessary during certain maneuvers and when
conditions are such that a loose grip could result in losing the paddle.
Still, it's important to relax your hands/wrist as much as is reasonable
under all conditions.

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

On 9-Mar-2006, Brian Nystrom wrote:

I beg to differ on this point. I find that using an unfeathered paddle -
with a loose grip on BOTH hands - requires no wrist rotation at all. The
key is to NOT use a control hand.

Your points are correct, but if you do use a control hand, then there
will be a small rotation required.


With a GP, I use the the typical canted stroke, which is guided by a
straight wrist position and the pressure of the fingers wrapped around
the shoulders of the blades. Again, my hands are relaxed and not
gripping the paddle at all, the lower fingers hooking and the upper hand
pushing.

I find that any corrections that are required can be done with a small motion
of the fingers and/or thumb rather than the wrist. This works if conditions
require a firm grip. That eliminates wrist rotation and my fingers/thumb don't
get stressed (compared even to typing/mousing on the computer). I do tend
to get a callous on my thumbs in the same position as the callous from using
a cross-country ski pole.

Mike

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

Michael Daly wrote:
On 9-Mar-2006, Brian Nystrom wrote:

I beg to differ on this point. I find that using an unfeathered paddle -
with a loose grip on BOTH hands - requires no wrist rotation at all. The
key is to NOT use a control hand.

Your points are correct, but if you do use a control hand, then there
will be a small rotation required.

How so? If the paddle is allowed to seek it's own orientation, there is
no directional input from the paddle required. The paddle simpy twists
in one's hands, if necessary.

Paddling: Typical Injuries?
 

On 9-Mar-2006, Brian Nystrom wrote:

How so? If the paddle is allowed to seek it's own orientation, there is
no directional input from the paddle required. The paddle simpy twists
in one's hands, if necessary.

Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote. If you use a control hand, I
assume you are using some grip with that hand and are not letting
the paddle find its own position. I understood you to say that if you
do not use a control hand, then you need to let the paddle loose enough
to allow it to find its own position.

Mike