Harry Krause wrote:

Unfortunately, you're not old enough to recall Karen accurately forecast
the Ficht debacle. She took on the Billgrans of the NG and *proved* them
wrong. Suspect history does repeat itself, Donald.

More pharts from Skipper the naziboy.

Any luck getting that O/U at the show? No, I didn't think so.

--
Skipper

Harry Krause wrote:

Any luck getting that O/U at the show?

Yup. Might even buy another shotgun for myself. I found a couple that were
really appealing, and at decent prices.

What do you consider decent prices for a proper O/U?

--
Skipper

Skipper wrote:
Reggie Smithers wrote:

The vast majority of complaints seem to be limited to the 1998 and 1999
models. I am sure there are some more recent, I just could not find any.

Sorry to learn of your infirmity. Hopefully, you will get your Google
working properly soon.

--
Skipper
Skipper,
Please post a few links. I might be Goggle deficient, but I try to be a
fast learner.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

Harry Krause wrote:

Yup. Might even buy another shotgun for myself. I found a couple that were
really appealing, and at decent prices.

What do you consider decent prices for a proper O/U?

I've seen serviceable shotguns ranging in price "new" from a $125 up to
more than $20,000. They're all "proper" shotguns.

The beauty of break-open shotguns is that they are easy to design and
manufacture, compared to pump or semi-auto shotguns. It isn't rocket
science to manufacture one that works properly and shoots accurately.

Gawd, do you ever have a lot to learn!

--
Skipper

Harry Krause wrote:
Reggie Smithers wrote:
Skipper wrote:
Reggie Smithers wrote:

The vast majority of complaints seem to be limited to the 1998 and 1999
models. I am sure there are some more recent, I just could not find
any.
Sorry to learn of your infirmity. Hopefully, you will get your Google
working properly soon.

--
Skipper
Skipper,
Please post a few links. I might be Goggle deficient, but I try to be
a fast learner.


You've got a Vonage blockage.
Harry,
You might be correct, but even if Karen and Skipper position is
incorrect and silly, it is an on topic discussion and is discussing the
issues instead of personalities. The fact that neither Skipper or Karen
can provide any links supporting their position concerning 2000 - 2005
Ficht and Etec, says more about their quality than anything I can say.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:06:47 -0600 in rec.boats, Skipper penned the
following thoughts:

Reggie Smithers wrote:

Yes, many contributors were not *there* back then...as is the case to
this day. History has proven Karen to be correct on most technical
issues of controversy. If she takes a strong position, it's wise to pay
attention.
Why does Karen refuse to post links to the consumer complaints she has
posted in rec.boats.
I just Googled the Ficht issue and found many consumer complaints. They
are there. And then there's the original OMC failure scam voiding
warrantees. What about those consumers?

Using the same logic... if a lot of people post it, then it must be
true, right? http://tinyurl.com/alq33 Ready to recant you position of
"phacts," Skipper?

Look, Karen was alone in detailing the technical problems and
forecasting the failure. That was a significant event. Why can't you
give her credit for that?

As the self made "King of Google," I'm surprised you took no more
steps to refresh your hoary memory than you did.....

First mention of Ficht in Rec.boats:
October 18, 1995

First mention of Ficht problems Rec.boats:
October 10, 1998

First mention of Ficht problems in Rec.boats by K:
Jan 13, 1999

So... at least a three month gap in this newsgroup, alone. Also, one
might, if interested, review the following post and see if any of this
has held true with the modern engines:
http://tinyurl.com/cplod

The only "truth" I have read RE the Ficht engine is that OMC got in
WAY over their head with an R&D project that they lacked the resources
to fund. Unable to finish funding the product and seeing the writing
on the wall, they released a half-baked product, asking the consumer
to finish the R&D work at the consumer's personal expense. That is a
reminder that corporations look after themselves and the stockholders
first and the customers and everybody else, second.

There is nothing wrong with the technology and the latter engines have
proved it.

Now, squirm and google, Skipper.... but facts are facts.... and have
nothing to do with your manufactured "phacts."

It is amazing what you can find in Goggle. According to JD Powers
Bayliner is the worst boat reviewed in the Small Runabout category
including "Value for Money".

--
ReJ.D. Power Ratings - Small Runabouts (16-19 ft.)
Boat Builder Overall Rating Quality & Reliability Value for Money
Exterior Ride & Handling Features
Crownline 5 5 5 5 5 4
Chaparral 5 5 3 5 4 5
Four Winns 4 3 4 4 4 4
Sea Ray 4 3 4 4 3 4
Glastron 3 3 3 3 3 5
Bayliner 2 3 3 2 3 3

Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:56:59 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote:

Skipper wrote:
Billgran wrote:

"Skipper" wrote:

Unfortunately, you're not old enough to recall Karen accurately forecast
the Ficht debacle. She took on the Billgrans of the NG and *proved* them
wrong.

She hasn't proved anything, except her ignorance in DFI engines. Ranting and
raving is not proof.

I have a great deal of respect for your advice, but Karen was proven
correct in her Ficht prognostications. That technology took a huge
company down as she *correctly* forecast. As for proof, the NG archives
are all the proof she needs on that subject. She was the only one
predicting that fall, as I recall.

--
Skipper
Skipper,
Can you provide some links to the problems with 2000 or later E-Tec and
Ficht engines?

His failure to answer the question speaks for itself.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Harry Krause wrote:

Well, I've done a bit more reading, and came across several really
favorable write-ups of the CZ line. The pieces are made in Turkey, and
used to be marketed in this country under the Huglu brand name. What I
have discovered is that many of today's shotguns, no matter what the
brand name says, are made in various places in the world in factories
more people have never heard of.

Here's a write-up on one in the Huglu line, which is now the CZ. I
looked at several of these today, and put a deposit on one. Check the
URL at the bottom and look over the photos, too.

Huglu USA's Side-By-Side Shotgun

http://www.gunblast.com/HugluUSA.htm

A side-by-side is not an O/U, Krause. No one uses side bys in
competitive shooting today.

--
Skipper

Harry Krause wrote:

I spent some time looking at a line of shotguns today that I had not
seen before, and I was blown away ( :} by the relatively high level of
handwork, fit, and finish for a quite modest price. These pieces were
selling for $700 to $1000, and they were the match of anything new
selling for twice the price.

Outdoor Life tested one, and while there is always a modicum of hype in
this stuff, I found the report interesting:

"CZ O/U Redhead
Issue: Summer 2005
Price: $795
Contact: (800-955-4486)

Editor's Comments
I love this gun” and “great value” were among the comments written about
this fast-pointing, slick-operating O/U that not only earned our Great
Buy award but came very close to winning the Editor’s Choice award over
a gun costing more than four times as much! The CZ Redhead, which sells
for $795, opened as smooth as oiled silk, and the stock seemed to fit
everyone so well that 25 for 25 at skeet was common, even on the first
round. Ejection of spent cases was crisp and positive. The only
criticism mentioned was the too-heavy trigger pull."

That 7 pounds of trigger pull is a disqualifier, and 20 gauge is not the
way to go. You can find a proper gun for your $800. Using that gun is
like trying to tow your Parker some distance...an exercise in futility.

--
Skipper

Harry Krause wrote:

That 7 pounds of trigger pull is a disqualifier, and 20 gauge is not the
way to go. You can find a proper gun for your $800.

Save your trolls for someone who cares about your opinions, Naziboy.

The words dense and thick come to mind with your response. You'll find
out why 7 1/4 oz pull is to much first time you shoot sporting clays.

--
Skipper