Why is that the case? the optimax injects directly into the cylinder ?
And why does it make it more reliable?

P.S.

one of my theories about ETec vs 4stroke vs optimax is that the Etec
seems to be using slightly (5-15%) gas. Which may be because of its
"nosed" piston which helps efficiency at low rpm but not at high rpm.

Lets not even go into the BRP claims it is more efficient .. which are
measured at idle speed and true... But also at that rpm and fuel use
even 50% more would be irrelelvant.



Matt

Sorry Matt I missed this one.

The Optimaxes are not true DFI (as in, Direct into the combustion
chamber Fuel Injection);

(i) they have a second inlet manifold between the air pump & a large
electronic fuel/air mixture injector (inlet valve).

(ii) The "fuel" is actually injected into this second inlet manifold.
with "normal" fuel injectors from a pretty much normal fuel rail
(slightly higher fuel rail pressure).

(iii) The fuel is therefore better atomised not much different from
normal 4 strokes fuel fuel injection & the same as a 4 stroke's
injection the fuel can get further atomised in a mostly hot (compressed
air) manifold before

(iv) an inlet valve opens & allows the fuel air mixture to flow into the
combustion chamber.

The reasons Optimaxes were better but still unsuccessful as OB engines,
were;

(v) the fuel was better atomised & a better mixture was allowed into the
chamber (though still way too lean), also

(vi) the injectors themselves were not subjected to the rigors of the
combustion chamber although the electronic inlet valve (air fuel mixture
injector) was & just as with Ficht they contributed to the reliability
or lack thereof making them failures from a commercial sense.

If any confirmation were needed after OMC, that low pressure DFI using
lean mixtures up into the mid power range doesn't work, take a look at
the Optimaxes & Ficht type systems. They could not be more different in
their execution of basically the same idea, extremely lean mixtures at
low revs fired directly around the spark plug even just to get ignition
(in ficht like systems they even have to just leave the plug
firing!!:-)) Yet they both suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage, gee they'd be too unreliable even as specialty race engines.

K

Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:

If any confirmation were needed after OMC, that low pressure DFI using
lean mixtures up into the mid power range doesn't work, take a look at
the Optimaxes & Ficht type systems. They could not be more different
in their execution of basically the same idea, extremely lean mixtures
at low revs fired directly around the spark plug even just to get
ignition (in ficht like systems they even have to just leave the plug
firing!!:-)) Yet they both suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage, gee they'd be too unreliable even as specialty race
engines.

K


What "failure rate" statistics can you cite to back up your claim that
the engines "suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage"? Legitimate statistics, please, backed up by some sort
of legitimate science, not your usual crap you extrapolate from reading
about three incidents that took place on a hot day in August on an
unnamed lake and involving three guys working their way through a keg
and bloodworms spread on crackers.


AH AH AH the liar Krause is supposed to have me filtered:-)

The net was full of horror stories about Optimax a few years ago even
this NG has sad owners looking for any sort of answers they could get.

Gee even one of your "star" OMC dealers from the deep north told this NG
he knew of warehouses full of blown Optimax powerheads!!!:-) Love it!!!
I really do. What are you now suggesting Krause?? just because you're a
total liar then this particular OMC dealer is also a liar???? Gee how
the liar worm has turned.

The best evidence is the new 4 strokes & the fact Brunswick are not
going any further, the Optimaxes are dead not as dead as ficht & it's
derivatives but dead is dead. Brunswick atr one stage were lodging
copious patents for "improvements" & not one of them has been put
through to production (some were pretty obvious, like the belt driven
pump, the plumbing etc) so they don't want to throw any more good money
after a failed technology either.

Seems there is only one know person here who still does:-)

K

& the Krause lie for today is his Vietnam lie, the one he concocted when
in a fit of jealousy that John was a true patriot & served his country
like a real man, while socialist scum like Krause cowed behind their
lies back in the safety of their unions.


Just to make your day, not only was
I a civilian employee in SE Asia, it was in Vietnam, it was
during the
war against Vietnam, I did see some horrific sights and I was
working at
the time for a U.S. general. Is that straightforward enough for you,
John, or is your amoeba still chasing your synapse

Harry Krause wrote:

What "failure rate" statistics can you cite to back up your claim that
the engines "suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage"? Legitimate statistics, please, backed up by some sort
of legitimate science, not your usual crap you extrapolate from reading
about three incidents that took place on a hot day in August on an
unnamed lake and involving three guys working their way through a keg
and bloodworms spread on crackers.

Are legitimate failure rate statistics publicly available
for any consumer item? The companies I've worked for held
that data pretty tightly.

-rick- wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:


What "failure rate" statistics can you cite to back up your claim that
the engines "suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage"? Legitimate statistics, please, backed up by some sort
of legitimate science, not your usual crap you extrapolate from reading
about three incidents that took place on a hot day in August on an
unnamed lake and involving three guys working their way through a keg
and bloodworms spread on crackers.


Are legitimate failure rate statistics publicly available for any
consumer item? The companies I've worked for held that data pretty
tightly.

Even that's charitable, the dealers lie outright.

the only time we ever got a figure was Ficht they "claimed" 1 in 5 but
honestly I think it was much higer than that

K

& the Krause lie for today is his Vietnam lie, the one he concocted when
in a fit of jealousy that John was a true patriot & served his country
like a real man, while socialist scum like Krause cowed behind their
lies back in the safety of their unions.


Just to make your day, not only was
I a civilian employee in SE Asia, it was in Vietnam, it was
during the
war against Vietnam, I did see some horrific sights and I was
working at
the time for a U.S. general. Is that straightforward enough for you,
John, or is your amoeba still chasing your synapse

Harry Krause wrote:
-rick- wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

What "failure rate" statistics can you cite to back up your claim that
the engines "suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage"? Legitimate statistics, please, backed up by some sort
of legitimate science, not your usual crap you extrapolate from reading
about three incidents that took place on a hot day in August on an
unnamed lake and involving three guys working their way through a keg
and bloodworms spread on crackers.


Are legitimate failure rate statistics publicly available for any
consumer item? The companies I've worked for held that data pretty
tightly.



Sure, at least partially. We've all encountered "recalls" with various
products, or at least read or heard about them.

But that's not my point. Ms. Smith is claiming a "way too high failure
rate," based upon nothing more than, basically, nothing. How can you
claim a rate is "too high" without any reliable quantifying?

The evidence I gave was we all were told this by a dealer friend of
yours in this NG!!! What better evidence could you possibly ask for???
again are you suggesting this particular dealer was nothing but lying
scum like you???

If that's what you're trying to say then just come out with it, don't be
shy.

Also it's clear that Brunswick are not putting any more money into it &
spending vast sums on the 4 strokes. That's the final nail as far as I'm
concerned.

If one of your dealer buddies isn't enough for you then I can't help you
further, you'll just have to stay in that unique but sad group of
simpletons who just "believe" things, gee there's one here who actually
posted he gets a certain fuel consumption because he "believes" he will!!!!

K

& the Krause lie for today is his Vietnam lie, the one he concocted when
in a fit of jealousy that John was a true patriot & served his country
like a real man, while socialist scum like Krause cowed behind their
lies back in the safety of their unions.


Just to make your day, not only was
I a civilian employee in SE Asia, it was in Vietnam, it was
during the
war against Vietnam, I did see some horrific sights and I was
working at
the time for a U.S. general. Is that straightforward enough for you,
John, or is your amoeba still chasing your synapse

Harry Krause wrote:
But that's not my point. Ms. Smith is claiming a "way too high failure
rate," based upon nothing more than, basically, nothing. How can you
claim a rate is "too high" without any reliable quantifying?

Agreed, my question was orthogonal. I can't find legitimate
failure rate stats for Optimax, Ficht, or ETec, can you?

Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
-rick- wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

What "failure rate" statistics can you cite to back up your claim that
the engines "suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage"? Legitimate statistics, please, backed up by some sort
of legitimate science, not your usual crap you extrapolate from
reading
about three incidents that took place on a hot day in August on an
unnamed lake and involving three guys working their way through a keg
and bloodworms spread on crackers.

Are legitimate failure rate statistics publicly available for any
consumer item? The companies I've worked for held that data pretty
tightly.


Sure, at least partially. We've all encountered "recalls" with
various products, or at least read or heard about them.

But that's not my point. Ms. Smith is claiming a "way too high
failure rate," based upon nothing more than, basically, nothing. How
can you claim a rate is "too high" without any reliable quantifying?

The evidence I gave was we all were told this by a dealer friend of
yours in this NG!!! What better evidence could you possibly ask for???
again are you suggesting this particular dealer was nothing but lying
scum like you???


What I'm stating is that your propaganda is not based upon any
certified, verifiable, enumerated, qualified, or quantified data.



If that's what you're trying to say then just come out with it, don't
be shy.

Also it's clear that Brunswick are not putting any more money into it
& spending vast sums on the 4 strokes. That's the final nail as far as
I'm concerned.


When I bought my Opti in 1998, I read info from Brunswick which said the
Opti technology was a bridge to help the company meet emission standards
in the short term.


If one of your dealer buddies isn't enough for you then I can't help
you further

I'm not making the claim, you are. You need the help, not me.
Harry,
I can remember a very detailed discussion Karen had with some
engineering types who used to frequent this motley group. I thought
they agreed that there was and should be concern about the lubrication
of Fichts at trolling speed.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 07:19:08 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
-rick- wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

What "failure rate" statistics can you cite to back up your claim that
the engines "suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage"? Legitimate statistics, please, backed up by some sort
of legitimate science, not your usual crap you extrapolate from
reading
about three incidents that took place on a hot day in August on an
unnamed lake and involving three guys working their way through a keg
and bloodworms spread on crackers.
Are legitimate failure rate statistics publicly available for any
consumer item? The companies I've worked for held that data pretty
tightly.

Sure, at least partially. We've all encountered "recalls" with
various products, or at least read or heard about them.

But that's not my point. Ms. Smith is claiming a "way too high
failure rate," based upon nothing more than, basically, nothing. How
can you claim a rate is "too high" without any reliable quantifying?
The evidence I gave was we all were told this by a dealer friend of
yours in this NG!!! What better evidence could you possibly ask for???
again are you suggesting this particular dealer was nothing but lying
scum like you???

What I'm stating is that your propaganda is not based upon any
certified, verifiable, enumerated, qualified, or quantified data.


If that's what you're trying to say then just come out with it, don't
be shy.

Also it's clear that Brunswick are not putting any more money into it
& spending vast sums on the 4 strokes. That's the final nail as far as
I'm concerned.

When I bought my Opti in 1998, I read info from Brunswick which said the
Opti technology was a bridge to help the company meet emission standards
in the short term.


If one of your dealer buddies isn't enough for you then I can't help
you further
I'm not making the claim, you are. You need the help, not me.
Harry,
I can remember a very detailed discussion Karen had with some
engineering types who used to frequent this motley group. I thought
they agreed that there was and should be concern about the lubrication
of Fichts at trolling speed.

600+ something hours most at low speed on the ranger and no problems
related to oiling or cylinder wear. i did have a stator problem which
cascaded through the engine, but thats almost unheard of even of other
engines including fichts.

oh, and its an omc ficht.

the problem is that most of the folks, engineers or not, have no clue
about how the system works or doesnt work - mostly doesnt because the
assumptions they make are valuless, uninformed and strictly
speculation - in short, if you cant convince them with brilliance....

its an advanced technology which baffles some who think they know it
all, thus they have to rely on bull**** and bafflement to "make" their
points.

everybody else can buy merc optimaxs and verados and yamaha four
strokes, but they arent going to get the milage i do, the preformance
i do or the reliability i have received.

so im done with this - everybody can do what they want - ill be
laughing all the way to the fishing grounds - or the bank with my
incredibly efficient engines.
Tom,
I am way too stupid to know the truth, except that no one in rec.boats
who owned one, has reported a problem with Ficht or Etec.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 13:54:58 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:
-rick- wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

What "failure rate" statistics can you cite to back up your claim that
the engines "suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage"? Legitimate statistics, please, backed up by some sort
of legitimate science, not your usual crap you extrapolate from reading
about three incidents that took place on a hot day in August on an
unnamed lake and involving three guys working their way through a keg
and bloodworms spread on crackers.


Are legitimate failure rate statistics publicly available for any
consumer item? The companies I've worked for held that data pretty
tightly.



Sure, at least partially. We've all encountered "recalls" with various
products, or at least read or heard about them.

But that's not my point. Ms. Smith is claiming a "way too high failure
rate," based upon nothing more than, basically, nothing. How can you
claim a rate is "too high" without any reliable quantifying?

The evidence I gave was we all were told this by a dealer friend of
yours in this NG!!! What better evidence could you possibly ask for???
again are you suggesting this particular dealer was nothing but lying
scum like you???

If that's what you're trying to say then just come out with it, don't be
shy.

Also it's clear that Brunswick are not putting any more money into it &
spending vast sums on the 4 strokes. That's the final nail as far as I'm
concerned.

If one of your dealer buddies isn't enough for you then I can't help you
further, you'll just have to stay in that unique but sad group of
simpletons who just "believe" things, gee there's one here who actually
posted he gets a certain fuel consumption because he "believes" he will!!!!

K

& the Krause lie for today is his Vietnam lie, the one he concocted when
in a fit of jealousy that John was a true patriot & served his country
like a real man, while socialist scum like Krause cowed behind their
lies back in the safety of their unions.


Just to make your day, not only was
I a civilian employee in SE Asia, it was in Vietnam, it was
during the
war against Vietnam, I did see some horrific sights and I was
working at
the time for a U.S. general. Is that straightforward enough for you,
John, or is your amoeba still chasing your synapse

Karen, please stop calling Harry 'lying scum'. It adds nothing to your
otherwise very interesting posts.

Your posts show that you know a lot more about the workings of the engines
than most anyone else hear. That alone adds to the credibility of what
you're saying.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 12:44:45 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 07:19:08 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
-rick- wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

What "failure rate" statistics can you cite to back up your claim that
the engines "suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage"? Legitimate statistics, please, backed up by some sort
of legitimate science, not your usual crap you extrapolate from
reading
about three incidents that took place on a hot day in August on an
unnamed lake and involving three guys working their way through a keg
and bloodworms spread on crackers.

Are legitimate failure rate statistics publicly available for any
consumer item? The companies I've worked for held that data pretty
tightly.


Sure, at least partially. We've all encountered "recalls" with
various products, or at least read or heard about them.

But that's not my point. Ms. Smith is claiming a "way too high
failure rate," based upon nothing more than, basically, nothing. How
can you claim a rate is "too high" without any reliable quantifying?

The evidence I gave was we all were told this by a dealer friend of
yours in this NG!!! What better evidence could you possibly ask for???
again are you suggesting this particular dealer was nothing but lying
scum like you???


What I'm stating is that your propaganda is not based upon any
certified, verifiable, enumerated, qualified, or quantified data.



If that's what you're trying to say then just come out with it, don't
be shy.

Also it's clear that Brunswick are not putting any more money into it
& spending vast sums on the 4 strokes. That's the final nail as far as
I'm concerned.


When I bought my Opti in 1998, I read info from Brunswick which said the
Opti technology was a bridge to help the company meet emission standards
in the short term.


If one of your dealer buddies isn't enough for you then I can't help
you further

I'm not making the claim, you are. You need the help, not me.
Harry,
I can remember a very detailed discussion Karen had with some
engineering types who used to frequent this motley group. I thought
they agreed that there was and should be concern about the lubrication
of Fichts at trolling speed.

600+ something hours most at low speed on the ranger and no problems
related to oiling or cylinder wear. i did have a stator problem which
cascaded through the engine, but thats almost unheard of even of other
engines including fichts.

oh, and its an omc ficht.

the problem is that most of the folks, engineers or not, have no clue
about how the system works or doesnt work - mostly doesnt because the
assumptions they make are valuless, uninformed and strictly
speculation - in short, if you cant convince them with brilliance....

its an advanced technology which baffles some who think they know it
all, thus they have to rely on bull**** and bafflement to "make" their
points.

everybody else can buy merc optimaxs and verados and yamaha four
strokes, but they arent going to get the milage i do, the preformance
i do or the reliability i have received.

so im done with this - everybody can do what they want - ill be
laughing all the way to the fishing grounds - or the bank with my
incredibly efficient engines.

Tom, is Karen wrong in her description of how the system works or doesn't?
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************