"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:58:41 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:23:21 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"-rick-" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

nothing like that transformer sound.

It's interesting how the old tube amps with output transformers were
pretty bad in terms of bandwidth and fidelity yet had more pleasing
distortion, especially when pushed hard and the non-linear speaker load
reflected back to the output tubes and the wimpy tube rectifier power
supply started sagging. It makes a pretty complex system when combined
with room acoustics, guitar resonances, and multiple feedback paths.

Theres been a lot of work on DSP emulation and modeling that so far
I've
not found nearly as satisfying but it's sure nice to be able to come
close
at low volume.

oh crap, Moss just got a gift in the end zone.

-rick-

Saw an interesting study on amplifier distortion ratings recently.
Typically
expressed as "THD" or Total Harmonic Distortion, it is generally
considered
that the lower the number the better, resulting in amps with ratings of
1%
or less, often much less.

Turns out that in a series of blind tests with a control group for
comparison that were told what levels of distortion existed, the human
ear
is very non-sensitive to relatively high levels of distortion.
Furthermore,
the ear is frequency dependent in it's ability to detect distortion. I
forget the exact numbers, but it was something like above 8khz the ear
was
most sensitive and both the blind group and the control group detected
distortion at about 3 percent. As the frequency lowered, both groups
were
unable to detect higher levels of THD. At low frequencies (bass) it
took
almost 100% THD for the groups to detect any distortion. Both group
results
were almost identical also.

I also remember reading about Carver amps which were of a "magnetic amp"
design. Bob Carver, the designer of the original Carver amp claimed the
same thing as the tests described above. Carver amps typically have a
much
higher THD rating than those of comparable competitors.

Oh, well. Useless information on a rainy day, 40 minutes from kickoff of
the Patriot's next victory on the way to the SB.

being a sufferer of perfect pitch, i can tell when something is
distorted or out of tune with reasonable accuracy.

i almost never listen to anything loud and i dont attend concerts for
much the same reason - the sound can just turn into noise for me.

then again, its a perfect excuse not to take the wife anywhere.

There were three instances in the show last night when I winced because of
a singer being 'off pitch' or 'off key'. Usually it was because they
couldn't hold the note as long as they tried to hold it.
--
John H

******Have a spectacular day!******

That's one of the main reasons I could never put up the opera my ex played
on the stereo occasionally. There were only two singers who could actually
hold a note long enough to not give me a headache: Pavarotti and Beverly
Sills. The ex only owned two albums featuring those people. The rest of the
music was useful for clearing a room, but not much else.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:43:04 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:58:41 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:23:21 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"-rick-" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

nothing like that transformer sound.

It's interesting how the old tube amps with output transformers were
pretty bad in terms of bandwidth and fidelity yet had more pleasing
distortion, especially when pushed hard and the non-linear speaker load
reflected back to the output tubes and the wimpy tube rectifier power
supply started sagging. It makes a pretty complex system when combined
with room acoustics, guitar resonances, and multiple feedback paths.

Theres been a lot of work on DSP emulation and modeling that so far
I've
not found nearly as satisfying but it's sure nice to be able to come
close
at low volume.

oh crap, Moss just got a gift in the end zone.

-rick-

Saw an interesting study on amplifier distortion ratings recently.
Typically
expressed as "THD" or Total Harmonic Distortion, it is generally
considered
that the lower the number the better, resulting in amps with ratings of
1%
or less, often much less.

Turns out that in a series of blind tests with a control group for
comparison that were told what levels of distortion existed, the human
ear
is very non-sensitive to relatively high levels of distortion.
Furthermore,
the ear is frequency dependent in it's ability to detect distortion. I
forget the exact numbers, but it was something like above 8khz the ear
was
most sensitive and both the blind group and the control group detected
distortion at about 3 percent. As the frequency lowered, both groups
were
unable to detect higher levels of THD. At low frequencies (bass) it
took
almost 100% THD for the groups to detect any distortion. Both group
results
were almost identical also.

I also remember reading about Carver amps which were of a "magnetic amp"
design. Bob Carver, the designer of the original Carver amp claimed the
same thing as the tests described above. Carver amps typically have a
much
higher THD rating than those of comparable competitors.

Oh, well. Useless information on a rainy day, 40 minutes from kickoff of
the Patriot's next victory on the way to the SB.

being a sufferer of perfect pitch, i can tell when something is
distorted or out of tune with reasonable accuracy.

i almost never listen to anything loud and i dont attend concerts for
much the same reason - the sound can just turn into noise for me.

then again, its a perfect excuse not to take the wife anywhere.

There were three instances in the show last night when I winced because of
a singer being 'off pitch' or 'off key'. Usually it was because they
couldn't hold the note as long as they tried to hold it.
--
John H

******Have a spectacular day!******

That's one of the main reasons I could never put up the opera my ex played
on the stereo occasionally. There were only two singers who could actually
hold a note long enough to not give me a headache: Pavarotti and Beverly
Sills. The ex only owned two albums featuring those people. The rest of the
music was useful for clearing a room, but not much else.


A few of them mistake themselves for bagpipes - that someone else has
pumped up!
--
John H

******Have a spectacular day!******

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan 2006 21:49:04 -0800, wrote:


Don White wrote:
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:


i wonder how long i can keep this thread alive....


At the risk of sounding wimpy......
ever see some kind of finger thimble that a person could use to keep
your fingers from touching two strings at once?
I'm thinking of something plastic that would go over your 4 frettin'
fingers.

Tommy Iommi was the guitarist for Black Sabbath, and he lost a cople
fingertips in a butcher shop meat saw. He tired fingertip prosthysis,
but that didnt' work well because he couldn't feel the strings with his
left hand. So...

he did without them, and so far (almost 40 years) he's done pretty
good for himself.

jerry garcia was missing a finger on his fret hand, django reinhardt
had two fingers paralyzed on his fret hand and came up with a
completely unique way of presenting jazz guitar. there are a couple
of others with fret hand injuries that I can't think of at the moment,
but they are big time players.

its your music - make it happen.

Jerry was missing the driving finger.

Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

DSK wrote:


Which Alembic do you own?
a '77 Series 1 built by Michael Dolan and Rob Turner


My birthday's March 13th. Send it over, please. :-)

The one with the separate blue power supply box? I used to have one of
those. For a number of reasons, I stopped playing for a while. Sold it to
add to the boat money pot. I never really got to enjoy it as much as I would
now because I didn't have the time and focus to experiment with strings &
various amps & cabinets.


Doug, yes... it does have the Blue power box. I was thinking on sending
it back to Alembic to have the LED's put in the fret markers, and give
it a good fret dressing but the price quote of $1500.00 was a bit over
the edge for me.

as far as amps goes, any bass that gets taken to a good gig where some
strength is needed, I play it through my Ampeg "Punisher" it's more
than I need for about any occasion, otherwise they usually get routed
through an SWR 4003 and a various host of cabinets.

I ahve a Peavey 300 combo in the upstairs of our house for a practice
"amp"

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:04:30 -0800, -rick- wrote:

Eisboch wrote:

Saw an interesting study on amplifier distortion ratings recently. Typically
expressed as "THD" or Total Harmonic Distortion, it is generally considered
that the lower the number the better, resulting in amps with ratings of 1%
or less, often much less.

Turns out that in a series of blind tests with a control group for
comparison that were told what levels of distortion existed, the human ear
is very non-sensitive to relatively high levels of distortion. Furthermore,
the ear is frequency dependent in it's ability to detect distortion. I
forget the exact numbers, but it was something like above 8khz the ear was
most sensitive and both the blind group and the control group detected
distortion at about 3 percent. As the frequency lowered, both groups were
unable to detect higher levels of THD. At low frequencies (bass) it took
almost 100% THD for the groups to detect any distortion. Both group results
were almost identical also.

I also remember reading about Carver amps which were of a "magnetic amp"
design. Bob Carver, the designer of the original Carver amp claimed the
same thing as the tests described above. Carver amps typically have a much
higher THD rating than those of comparable competitors.

Oh, well. Useless information on a rainy day, 40 minutes from kickoff of
the Patriot's next victory on the way to the SB.

More useless info...

As I recall the Carver "magnetic" amp (the cube?) was a bit
of a misnomer. I think this design had a number of
switching power supplies that produced a range of output
voltages (+/-10V, +/-20V, +/-30V, etc. for example). The
audio output was switched to the power supply that was most
nearly equal to desired gain * input signal. A low power
linear amp would then correct the residual error and
switching glitches were reduced with a low pass filter. It
was quite efficient and needed minimal heat sink but did
have higher noise and distortion than most linear amps, not
that I could hear it.

Hearing sensitivity is intensity and frequency dependent as
shown by the Fletcher-Munson curves which may explain the
distortion results you noted.

http://www.webervst.com/fm.htm

The thing is I *want* the guitar amp to distort when pushed.
But I want "nice" distortion, like Eric Johnson's 600lb
violin sound. Hey, would that be a Srativarius?

http://www.ericjohnson.com/

Maybe some day I'll find time to experiment with a low power
tube amp and novel ways of crippling it. I have a recent
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (40 watt tube) and it's ok clean but
way too loud to push the output stage and the preamp
distortion on the overdrive channels is just nasty.

with all the guitar players in this group, we all ought to get
together and find a drummer somewhere just to play through and have a
massive jam session.

In high school, I was in the orchestra and marching bands as a drummer.
I played Timpani in the orchestra. In my basement bar room, where I
practice and play guitar, I've got several percussion instruments
people can pick up and mess with anytime they want. I've heard some
pretty funky stuff there!! I've got a cheap djembe drum, tambourine, a
cheap bodhran. I'm looking for a used conga.

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 04:22:26 GMT, Don White
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:


i wonder how long i can keep this thread alive....


At the risk of sounding wimpy......
ever see some kind of finger thimble that a person could use to keep
your fingers from touching two strings at once?
I'm thinking of something plastic that would go over your 4 frettin'
fingers.

i have - farmer's fingers - myself. you just have to get used to
fingering with the tips of your fingers - as you exercise the fingers,
they will thin out a little - really, not kidding you.

i would also second previous advice, learn to play including the pinky
and leanr to use bar chords immediately. you'd be surprised at how
much music you can make by just learning a few simple bar chords.

Pentatonic scales.....a must.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan 2006 17:56:15 -0800, wrote:


I've3 been playing bass guitar for 35 years (man! time flies!!!)

I wish i had taken guitar lesson's when I was a kid, it would have made
learning bass a whole lot easier.

But I suppose I do ok....

if kanter can play bass, anybody can play bass.

- that was a joke son - except for the kanter part -

I am a bass monster.

I've picked around with bass a little, but not enough so that it
doesn't feel wierd to me, but I am trying to find a semi-cheap bass to
mess with and learn. The five strings are alien to me all together.

Kevin,

Good to see you made it into work safely today so that you can resume
stealing time from your employer by posting to the group rather than do the
work for which you are paid.


wrote in message
ups.com...

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:04:30 -0800, -rick- wrote:

Eisboch wrote:

Saw an interesting study on amplifier distortion ratings recently.
Typically
expressed as "THD" or Total Harmonic Distortion, it is generally
considered
that the lower the number the better, resulting in amps with ratings
of 1%
or less, often much less.

Turns out that in a series of blind tests with a control group for
comparison that were told what levels of distortion existed, the human
ear
is very non-sensitive to relatively high levels of distortion.
Furthermore,
the ear is frequency dependent in it's ability to detect distortion.
I
forget the exact numbers, but it was something like above 8khz the ear
was
most sensitive and both the blind group and the control group detected
distortion at about 3 percent. As the frequency lowered, both groups
were
unable to detect higher levels of THD. At low frequencies (bass) it
took
almost 100% THD for the groups to detect any distortion. Both group
results
were almost identical also.

I also remember reading about Carver amps which were of a "magnetic
amp"
design. Bob Carver, the designer of the original Carver amp claimed
the
same thing as the tests described above. Carver amps typically have a
much
higher THD rating than those of comparable competitors.

Oh, well. Useless information on a rainy day, 40 minutes from kickoff
of
the Patriot's next victory on the way to the SB.

More useless info...

As I recall the Carver "magnetic" amp (the cube?) was a bit
of a misnomer. I think this design had a number of
switching power supplies that produced a range of output
voltages (+/-10V, +/-20V, +/-30V, etc. for example). The
audio output was switched to the power supply that was most
nearly equal to desired gain * input signal. A low power
linear amp would then correct the residual error and
switching glitches were reduced with a low pass filter. It
was quite efficient and needed minimal heat sink but did
have higher noise and distortion than most linear amps, not
that I could hear it.

Hearing sensitivity is intensity and frequency dependent as
shown by the Fletcher-Munson curves which may explain the
distortion results you noted.

http://www.webervst.com/fm.htm

The thing is I *want* the guitar amp to distort when pushed.
But I want "nice" distortion, like Eric Johnson's 600lb
violin sound. Hey, would that be a Srativarius?

http://www.ericjohnson.com/

Maybe some day I'll find time to experiment with a low power
tube amp and novel ways of crippling it. I have a recent
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (40 watt tube) and it's ok clean but
way too loud to push the output stage and the preamp
distortion on the overdrive channels is just nasty.

with all the guitar players in this group, we all ought to get
together and find a drummer somewhere just to play through and have a
massive jam session.

In high school, I was in the orchestra and marching bands as a drummer.
I played Timpani in the orchestra. In my basement bar room, where I
practice and play guitar, I've got several percussion instruments
people can pick up and mess with anytime they want. I've heard some
pretty funky stuff there!! I've got a cheap djembe drum, tambourine, a
cheap bodhran. I'm looking for a used conga.

Don wrote:
Well...I've grown tired of just surviving the winters, and since things
have mellowed out inn this newsgroup I can't even count on a good dustup
to keep me going.
This morning I went to a local music store and bought a Takamine GS-330S
acoustic guitar.
I didn't know what to buy so I let the salesman convince me that this
model was the best value..for a beginner as it was on at a reduced
price. They threw in the case, strap and half a dozen picks... all for
$300.00 CDN.
Next I walked upstairs to the Canadian Conservatory of Music and signed
up for 18 weeks of music lessons.
Classes don't start until next Tuesday night, so I found beginner
lessons online but might have trouble with my frettin' hand. I find the
strings seem close together for my chubby fingers. Anyway, I'll see how
it works out. Gotta do something..... the wife has been called back to
work a month early and I'll be semi-housebound for months. Back to that
chromatic chord...
G major
D major
C major...
mmmm wonder if they do cash refunds at that store?
==================================
Not a bad choice for a hobby and you can have a lot of fun with it
during the boating season, too. Some years ago, a friend showed me
the basic chords and I banged away on an old guitar that my wife had
used as a teenager. Later, a marina friend was trying to learn the
banjo, so it became sort of a contest to see who could progress faster
with their chosen insterment. It was about a tie, but we had a lot of
fun. Then still another marina friend brought her accordian out and we
had a 3 piece combo, this brought out a fourth that played the
harmonica very well. We limped along with various singalong stuff for
several years, usually attracting some others for singalong.

But, for a winter hobby, I took up ship modeling about 19 years ago.
Not being much of a craftsman, I was surprised (as were many others) at
the results..

Happy hobby & boating, Norm

Bert Robbins wrote:
Kevin,

Good to see you made it into work safely today so that you can resume
stealing time from your employer by posting to the group rather than do the
work for which you are paid.

Good to see that you're still an idiot who thinks I'm someone I'm not.
Go away, little boy.