wrote:
Many of my neighbors are small commercial fishermen who were driven out
of business by the so called "Net ban Amendment" that was promulgated
by so-called "Sport Fishermen" The amendment to the FL constitution is
written so badly that it is very difficult to decide if some nets are
legal so that the Marine Patrol simply enforces it against those people
they do not like. The situation became so tense here in N. Fl that a
few yrs ago the Marine patrol refused to rescue some commercial
fishermen on a small boat off Alligator Point. The Marine Patrol says
they never heard the distress call although they were less than 10
miles away on the water writing a net ban ticket at the time. Instead,
the Coast Guard station at Yankeetown 90 miles away did get it and
relayed it to the marine Patrol who refused to act on it for hours.
Later, the Marine Patrol sai9d the wearher was too rough for them to
search in spite of them having a 60' vessel at Carabelle 15 miles away.
Finally, other fishermen decided to search since the Marine Patrol
refused but by this time the vessel had sunk killing two. It is widely
believed in these parts that the Marine Patrol intentionally allowed
these men to die to punish the local fishermen for their opposition to
the net ban.
Meanwhile, it has been found that it is the so-called "Sport Fishermen"
with their mega expensive boats that are depleting grouper stocks
Given a choice of having sympathy for a hard working "commercial
fisherman" with a plywood boat with a 30 yr old Johnson trying to
scrape by vs a spoiled rich transplant driving a $100,000 "fishing"
boat, I'll take the plywood boat.
Because of the extraordinarily foolish idea of putting the net ban in
the Fl constitution, many of us here have protested by voting for the
pregnant pig amendment and the bullet train amendment. Of course, you
can see where the money is as the bullet train amendment ahs been
ignored while we still prosecute poor commercial fishermen and sieze
their property so the rich "Sport Fishermen" can enjoy themselves.

all this yet you claim to know nothing of fishing regulations? what a
fraud.

if for one second you truly believe ANYONE fishing from a boat with rod
and reel does more damage to the fish stocks compared to the
commercials(not all, but a few) who basically rape the bottom, then you
are one demented individual...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Many of my neighbors are small commercial fishermen who were driven out
of business by the so called "Net ban Amendment" that was promulgated
by so-called "Sport Fishermen" The amendment to the FL constitution is
written so badly that it is very difficult to decide if some nets are
legal so that the Marine Patrol simply enforces it against those people
they do not like. The situation became so tense here in N. Fl that a
few yrs ago the Marine patrol refused to rescue some commercial
fishermen on a small boat off Alligator Point. The Marine Patrol says
they never heard the distress call although they were less than 10
miles away on the water writing a net ban ticket at the time. Instead,
the Coast Guard station at Yankeetown 90 miles away did get it and
relayed it to the marine Patrol who refused to act on it for hours.
Later, the Marine Patrol sai9d the wearher was too rough for them to
search in spite of them having a 60' vessel at Carabelle 15 miles away.
Finally, other fishermen decided to search since the Marine Patrol
refused but by this time the vessel had sunk killing two. It is widely
believed in these parts that the Marine Patrol intentionally allowed
these men to die to punish the local fishermen for their opposition to
the net ban.
Meanwhile, it has been found that it is the so-called "Sport Fishermen"
with their mega expensive boats that are depleting grouper stocks

Commercial fishermen account for 81% of the yearly take of grouper stocks.
Despite this fact, they have successfully lobbied the Feds to enact
unreasonable and unnecessary restrictions on recreational angling for
grouper in the Gulf of Mexico. Here's a few discussion forum threads to get
you up to speed:

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=407728

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=423359

And here's a good synopsis:

"You are almost correct, the recreational sector is allowed 19% 1.25 million
lbs and the Commercial sector is allowed 81% 5.5 million lbs.

Yet the economic impact of commercial may be 800 million and te economic
impact of recreational is 5 billion, thats right boys 5 BILLION with a "B"."


I suggest you get your facts from a more reliable source, instead of
talking to commercial drunkards who make up stories about the Marine Patrol
intentionally letting commercial fishermen drown.

"DownTime" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Many of my neighbors are small commercial fishermen who were driven out
of business by the so called "Net ban Amendment" that was promulgated
by so-called "Sport Fishermen" The amendment to the FL constitution is
written so badly that it is very difficult to decide if some nets are
legal so that the Marine Patrol simply enforces it against those people
they do not like. The situation became so tense here in N. Fl that a
few yrs ago the Marine patrol refused to rescue some commercial
fishermen on a small boat off Alligator Point. The Marine Patrol says
they never heard the distress call although they were less than 10
miles away on the water writing a net ban ticket at the time. Instead,
the Coast Guard station at Yankeetown 90 miles away did get it and
relayed it to the marine Patrol who refused to act on it for hours.
Later, the Marine Patrol sai9d the wearher was too rough for them to
search in spite of them having a 60' vessel at Carabelle 15 miles away.
Finally, other fishermen decided to search since the Marine Patrol
refused but by this time the vessel had sunk killing two. It is widely
believed in these parts that the Marine Patrol intentionally allowed
these men to die to punish the local fishermen for their opposition to
the net ban.
Meanwhile, it has been found that it is the so-called "Sport Fishermen"
with their mega expensive boats that are depleting grouper stocks
Given a choice of having sympathy for a hard working "commercial
fisherman" with a plywood boat with a 30 yr old Johnson trying to
scrape by vs a spoiled rich transplant driving a $100,000 "fishing"
boat, I'll take the plywood boat.
Because of the extraordinarily foolish idea of putting the net ban in
the Fl constitution, many of us here have protested by voting for the
pregnant pig amendment and the bullet train amendment. Of course, you
can see where the money is as the bullet train amendment ahs been
ignored while we still prosecute poor commercial fishermen and sieze
their property so the rich "Sport Fishermen" can enjoy themselves.

all this yet you claim to know nothing of fishing regulations? what a
fraud.

Bingo.

Following this incident where the Marine Patrol refused to rescue two
men and left them to die, the marine Patrol found themselves unwelcome
in several communities such as Panacea and St. Marks. On two occasions
they found their boat trailers tires slashed and were even fired on
once when they launched at Panacea.
Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed over time as the commercial
fishermen found that the waterfornt property that had been in their
familes for generations and was thought to be just worthless salt marsh
escalated in value from roughly $30,000.acre along the New River in
Carabelle to over $500,000/acre. The property was mostly being sold to
transplants from South Florida and various northern hell holes. Many
of the buyers being the "Sport Fishermen". Unfortunately, there isnt a
happy ending. These buyers then filled the salt marshes that produced
all the food for the game fish thus reducing the "sport fish"
population. Even worse, these rich transplants built docks for their
expensive boats and put up illegal fences to keep the locals from the
waterfront that is legally public property. But, you know money talks
so the poor locals who did not have waterfront property to sell can now
no longer even fish from the shore that was supposed to be public.

wrote:
Following this incident where the Marine Patrol refused to rescue two
men and left them to die, the marine Patrol found themselves unwelcome
in several communities such as Panacea and St. Marks. On two occasions
they found their boat trailers tires slashed and were even fired on
once when they launched at Panacea.
Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed over time as the commercial
fishermen found that the waterfornt property that had been in their
familes for generations and was thought to be just worthless salt marsh
escalated in value from roughly $30,000.acre along the New River in
Carabelle to over $500,000/acre. The property was mostly being sold to
transplants from South Florida and various northern hell holes. Many
of the buyers being the "Sport Fishermen". Unfortunately, there isnt a
happy ending. These buyers then filled the salt marshes that produced
all the food for the game fish thus reducing the "sport fish"
population. Even worse, these rich transplants built docks for their
expensive boats and put up illegal fences to keep the locals from the
waterfront that is legally public property. But, you know money talks
so the poor locals who did not have waterfront property to sell can now
no longer even fish from the shore that was supposed to be public.


please post some proof of this episode you claim to know about.
specifically the marine patrol refusal to help and the filling of salt
marshes. or is this simply more urban legend?

if said locals 'sold' the land, they are no longer entitled to use it.
was anything put in the contract? did they simply want the profit and
retain the benefit of still having rights to the land? and how is anyone
personally allowed to privately sell public land?

and in case you havnt paid to much attention to the details, the
commercial netters rarely if ever catch grouper, so why compare them to
the offshore sport fisherman? part of the problem has been that the
commercial netters would take anything and everthing, and the loss of
marine life by way of 'by catch' is what brought about the newer
regulations.

Land below the high tide line is defined as "public" in Florida. This
means we all have the right to use it, supposedly.
The incident (roughly 1990) was extensively covered in local paper the
"Tallahassee Democrat" but mostly from the marine Patrol point of view
as the local paper will go to any length to keep from criticizing state
govt in the state capitol. Local people will give you the real story.
If you really want to know, go into some of the longer lived
restaurants or bars along the coast from St. Marks to Carabelle and ask
about the yellowing newspaper clippings hanging on the walls about the
incident. The wreck was visible for weeks from the shore of Alligator
Point and I motored within 50 yards of it several times before it was
removed. The Marine Patrol officer who was issuing a net ban ticket in
Dog Island Sound at the time of the incident claimed at first that he
didn't hear the distress call on Ch 16 but later said that his VHF was
turned off while he wrote the ticket. Either way, something is wrong.
Two years later, another local was lost in the same area and the Marine
Patrol conducted a half assed search and gave up. A friend of mine
chartered a small plane and he and and a pilot flew back and forth over
the area and found him. Jack leaned out the open cockpit and dropped
water and a hand held VHF so that he could be rescued.

I am sorry, it must have been mid-90s.

wrote:
I am sorry, it must have been mid-90s.

not quite what i was looking for in regards to 'proof'.

might as well forget about it at this point. in my opinion you have lost
any sense of credibility and i don't see the need or benefit in any
further debate with you.

I am not debating, simply telling you why I think the Marine Patrol
should be avoided and why I think they cannot be counted on. OTOH, the
Coasties seem to do better although we rarely see them. They do have a
vessel in Carabelle and an auxiliary station at Shell Pt. They have
always seemed friendly. Whenever someone is missing, i see them send
planes out of Panama City to look, I never see the marine patrol doing
much besides hassling fishermen. It'll be many years before local
people here trust the FL Marine Patrol.

Besides these two well publicized incidents, i have also had three
run-ins with them. In one case, they actually put my nearly hypothermic
80 yr old father back in the water in january telling him he could swim
to shore. In another case, I think the officer had to be drunk cuz he
made no sense but I declined to argue. In the third case he actually
got a broken halyard wrapped round his prop and tried to blame us. We
had pitchpoled a Hobie 16 in a thunderstorm, broke the shrouds even.
We paddled most of the way back to shore and then this marine patrol
boat comes along to help when we were 100' from shore. We declined
help but when he tried to leave there was anawful noise with him
cursing like crazy. Accused us of blocking the channel.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am not debating, simply telling you why I think the Marine Patrol
should be avoided and why I think they cannot be counted on. OTOH, the
Coasties seem to do better although we rarely see them. They do have a
vessel in Carabelle and an auxiliary station at Shell Pt. They have
always seemed friendly. Whenever someone is missing, i see them send
planes out of Panama City to look, I never see the marine patrol doing
much besides hassling fishermen. It'll be many years before local
people here trust the FL Marine Patrol.

Besides these two well publicized incidents, i have also had three
run-ins with them. In one case, they actually put my nearly hypothermic
80 yr old father back in the water in january telling him he could swim
to shore.

Huh? They put him *back* in the water? What was he doing there in the
first place?

In another case, I think the officer had to be drunk cuz he
made no sense but I declined to argue. In the third case he actually
got a broken halyard wrapped round his prop and tried to blame us. We
had pitchpoled a Hobie 16 in a thunderstorm, broke the shrouds even.
We paddled most of the way back to shore and then this marine patrol
boat comes along to help when we were 100' from shore. We declined
help but when he tried to leave there was anawful noise with him
cursing like crazy. Accused us of blocking the channel.

The guys down our way are very courteous and professional. I've been
stopped 3 or 4 times, and the guys have asked to see my catch and/or my
fishing license. They take a quick glance, ask if I have life jackets for
all aboard, and then send me on my way.

Of course, they're not in a Hatfield & McCoy-type battle with half the town
like up by you.