OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

The following are excerpts from Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi's Friday
December 2, 2005, which aired the same date on Qatar TV. Sheikh Al-Qaradhawi
is head of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, president of the
International Association of Muslim Scholars (IAMS), and the spiritual guide
of many other Islamist organizations across the world (including the Muslim
Brotherhood). In this sermon, hediscusses the Jews at the time of Muhammad,
as well as the situation in Iraq, calling for Iraq to be protected from the
"American Satan."
Sheikh Al-Qaradhawi: "These polytheist pagan invaders were joined by the
Jews - the Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe, who remained in Al-Madina, and
who did to the Prophet Muhammad things that require punishment, by forging
an alliance with the Banu Nazir tribe against the Prophet. But the Prophet
forgave them and allowed them to remain in Al-Madina. Nevertheless, their
nature got the better of them, and they violated the treaty and the covenant
of protection between them and the Prophet.

[...]

"How great is the similarity between past and present, brothers. We Muslims
are besieged by many forces that want to uproot the Muslims under various
pretexts - the pretext of terrorism, the pretext of fundamentalism, this
pretext or that pretext. The goal is to fight this nation. They want to
eradicate the nation of Islam.

[...]

"We are now under a siege that resembles the Siege of the Trench, the Siege
of Akhzab.

"But we will be victorious, Allah willing - despite the traps set by Judaism
and the Crusaders, and despite the deeds of those who set traps and who
deceive.

[...]

"The Prophet besieged them for 25 days until they surrendered and agreed to
accept his reign. The Prophet called upon them to choose a judge, and they
chose Sa'd bin Mu'az, who had been their ally in the Jahiliyya [the
pre-Islamic era].

[...]

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

[...]

"Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted.

[...]

"I place the responsibility on the Shi'ite brothers more than on the Sunnis,
because they are the ones who control the army, the police, the security
forces, the regime, and the ministries. They have things the Sunnis don't
have. They must not exploit this to kill their [Sunni] brothers, as they do.
We want the great Shi'ite clerics, the ayatollahs, the Shi'ite sources of
authority, the great authority Ayatollah Ali Sistani... We want the sheikhs
of the Houza to issue fatwas forbidding the killing of Muslims by Muslims,
fatwas forbidding the killing of Sunnis. The Sunnis issued such fatwas, but
we haven't seen the Shi'ite brothers, their clerics, or their ayatollahs
issuing similar fatwas. We want them to issue unequivocal fatwas forbidding
Muslims from fighting Muslims and killing them on the basis of their
identity.

[...]

"Soon, on December 15, parliamentary elections will be held. The new
parliament members will be elected. In the past, the Sunnis boycotted the
elections because they bore the burden of resisting the occupation, and
their circumstances prevented them from [participating]. There was no
security, and there were many things that prevented them from doing so. Now
I call upon the Sunnis to participate en masse in the next elections, to
present their candidacy, and to vote. Some clerics issued fatwas saying that
elections under the American occupation are forbidden. I say: No! Necessity
makes them permissible, especially in light of the fact that the occupation
does not appear to be intervening in these elections. If these are free and
fair elections, we should participate in them, instead of watching from the
sidelines. Then the pie will be divided between those who participated in
the elections, and we will continue to fight, and a civil war will break
out, and blood will be spilled. For what? I say to my Sunni brothers in
Iraq: Participate in these elections en masse.

[...]

"In the previous elections, they promised to amend the constitution after
the coming elections. There are many things in the constitution opposed by
the Sunnis, such as expanding the federations, the distribution of
resources, and so on. This is your chance to say your piece and to amend
this constitution. I call upon my brothers to join the political battle. We
should not ignore the political aspect. I call upon my brothers, members of
the Association of [Sunni] Muslim Clerics, headed by Sheikh Hareth al-Dhari
and his brothers... I call upon them not to be extremist in this matter, to
look at all sides of the issue, and to try to take advantage of this
opportunity, so that others [the Shi'ites] won't later say: We gave them an
opportunity, but they refused to take it. No. We don't want them to say
that. We want to take advantage of this opportunity, and we insist upon
realizing our right and not missing this opportunity.

"I pray for Allah to open our brothers' eyes, to make the present in Iraq
better than the past, and the future better than the present. I pray for
Allah to protect Iraq from overt and covert civil strife, to protect it from
the evils of divisiveness and racism, and to protect it from the whispers of
all satans, the human satans, the satans among the djinn, the American
satans, and other satans."



http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD104505

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person, but
a Buddhist.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.




So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.




So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."



I'm simply pointing out to you that no religion is devoid of pointless
vengeance. But, you already knew that. You're simply choosing the ignore the
one that doesn't help you make your point du jour.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all killed and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.

Jim C.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all killed
and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be
seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will
exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that
in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.


But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is
warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all killed
and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them
with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be
seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will
exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that
in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees
and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you
are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.


But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Whether you wish death upon an enemy in ways you can actually accomplish, or
believe death *should* come to them because of some mythological Armageddon
nonsense in the bible, you're an asshole either way. Nobody's excusing what
Muslim wackos are saying now. However, I *do* know Big Time Christians who
believe it's only right that all the details of Armageddon should actually
come to pass. These people are from one of the biggest evangelical churches
near here - not really what you might call a fringe group.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this
is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is
warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all killed
and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them
with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer
by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be
seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will
exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that
in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees
and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you
are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.


But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Whether you wish death upon an enemy in ways you can actually accomplish,
or believe death *should* come to them because of some mythological
Armageddon nonsense in the bible, you're an asshole either way.

But the actual debate lies in *who* is actually the enemy. To me, it's the
terrorists trying to blow up civilians. To the terrorists, it's any
non-Muslim...or any non-Muslim sympathizer.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this
is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is
warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all
killed and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of
view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them
with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer
by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be
seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services
ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will
exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least,
that in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees
and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you
are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.


But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many
Muslims have not.

Whether you wish death upon an enemy in ways you can actually accomplish,
or believe death *should* come to them because of some mythological
Armageddon nonsense in the bible, you're an asshole either way.

But the actual debate lies in *who* is actually the enemy. To me, it's
the terrorists trying to blow up civilians. To the terrorists, it's any
non-Muslim...or any non-Muslim sympathizer.

At least you said "To the terrorists", instead of "To Muslims". You're
evolving.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as
booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this
is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is
warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all
killed and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of
view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond
of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them
with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer
by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to
be seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over
the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to
what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services
ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will
exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least,
that in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees
and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you
are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.


But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the
Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many
Muslims have not.

Whether you wish death upon an enemy in ways you can actually
accomplish, or believe death *should* come to them because of some
mythological Armageddon nonsense in the bible, you're an asshole either
way.

But the actual debate lies in *who* is actually the enemy. To me, it's
the terrorists trying to blow up civilians. To the terrorists, it's any
non-Muslim...or any non-Muslim sympathizer.

At least you said "To the terrorists", instead of "To Muslims". You're
evolving.

Muslims in general are not the problem. The problem lies with Muslims who
live by the Sharia that is practiced today in the Islamic states...namely
the Wahhabis.

http://www.meta-religion.com/Extremi.../wahhabism.htm

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person, but
a Buddhist.


Doug, what is a 'Big Time Christian'? I know of none who say that.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:23:51 -0500, "Jim Carter" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all killed and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.

Jim C.


Luckily, most of them are dead.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World Order,"
page 219.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:55:51 -0500, "Jim Carter" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World Order,"
page 219.


Nothing there come's close to your claims.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and
the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but
abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made
if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World
Order,"
page 219.

Pat Roberson is an idiot. Anybody that pays attention to him is an idiot
too.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and
the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but
abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made
if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World
Order,"
page 219.


Nothing about killing the men, and enslaving the women like our Muslim
fundies want?

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

NOYB wrote:

Nothing about killing the men, and enslaving the women like our Muslim
fundies want?

Really? How about this:

Proposed 'Godly Fumigation' of Non-Christians

It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great
builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because
Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love
of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into [our]
institutions [today] are primarily termites. They are into destroying
institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is
universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The
termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and
the time has arrived for a godly fumigation.
-- Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986

And this:
Audience Participant: "I've been reading through the Book of Numbers
recently, and come across that passage in Chapter 31 about the
destruction of the Midianites. How do you explain that apparent
travesty of the destruction of that people with the just and holy God?"

Pat Robertson: The wars of extermination have given a lot of people
trouble unless they understand fully what was going on. The people in
the land of Palestine were very wicked. They were given over to
idolatry. They sacrificed their children. They had all kinds of
abominable sex practices. They were having sex apparently with animals.
They were having sex men with men and women with women. They were
committing adultery and fornication. They were serving idols. As I say,
they were offering their children up, and they were forsaking God.

God told the Israelites to kill them all: men, women and children; to
destroy them. And that seems like a terrible thing to do. Is it or
isn't it? Well, let us assume that there were two thousand of them or
ten thousand of them living in the land, or whatever number, I don't
have the exact number, but pick a number. And God said, "Kill them
all." Well, that would seem hard, wouldn't it? But that would be 10,000
people who probably would go to hell. But if they stayed and
reproduced, in thirty, forty or fifty or sixty or a hundred more years
there could conceivably be ... ten thousand would grow to a hundred, a
hundred thousand conceivably could grow to a million, and there would
be a million people who would have to spend an eternity in Hell! And it
is far more merciful to take away a few than to see in the future a
hundred years down the road, and say, "Well, I'll have to take away a
million people, that will be forever apart from God because the
abomination is there." It's like a contagion. God saw that there was no
cure for it. It wasn't going to change, and all they would do is cause
trouble for the Israelites and pull the Israelites away from God and
prevent the truth of God from reaching the earth. And so God in love --
and that was a loving thing -- took away a small number that he might
not have to take away a large number

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and
the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but
abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made
if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World
Order,"
page 219.

It's interesting how he allows doubt as to whether he's saying Khomeini was
Hindu.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person,
but
a Buddhist.


Doug, what is a 'Big Time Christian'? I know of none who say that.
--
John Herring

They're the ones with the biggest mouths, John. And, the ones who are so
eager to "share" their way of life with people who didn't ask for that
"favor".

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .
"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many
Muslims
have not.
Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no
doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a
country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the
Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and
the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to
their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but
abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made
if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World
Order,"
page 219.


Nothing about killing the men, and enslaving the women like our Muslim
fundies want?


It figures you'd be an admirer of Pat Robertson.

Really? Where'd I say that?

I'm not a fan of extremists on either end of the spectrum.

But to suggest that the Christian right is anything like the Muslim
fundamentalists is an outright joke.




There's no real difference between Christian fundies and Muslim fundies,
in terms of "controlling" the population.

That's true for most religions. Don't eat meat on Fridays. Don't eat pork.
Don't commit adultry. Don't drink alcohol. Keep Holy the Sabbath. Do unto
to others...

If the time comes that the Christian fundies get what they want, the
executions will follow in short order.

LOL. You're ****ed in the head.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:

Nothing about killing the men, and enslaving the women like our Muslim
fundies want?

Really? How about this:

Proposed 'Godly Fumigation' of Non-Christians

It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great
builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because
Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love
of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into [our]
institutions [today] are primarily termites. They are into destroying
institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is
universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The
termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and
the time has arrived for a godly fumigation.
-- Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986







And this:
Audience Participant: "I've been reading through the Book of Numbers
recently, and come across that passage in Chapter 31 about the
destruction of the Midianites. How do you explain that apparent
travesty of the destruction of that people with the just and holy God?"

Pat Robertson: The wars of extermination have given a lot of people
trouble unless they understand fully what was going on. The people in
the land of Palestine were very wicked. They were given over to
idolatry. They sacrificed their children. They had all kinds of
abominable sex practices. They were having sex apparently with animals.
They were having sex men with men and women with women. They were
committing adultery and fornication. They were serving idols. As I say,
they were offering their children up, and they were forsaking God.

God told the Israelites to kill them all: men, women and children; to
destroy them. And that seems like a terrible thing to do. Is it or
isn't it? Well, let us assume that there were two thousand of them or
ten thousand of them living in the land, or whatever number, I don't
have the exact number, but pick a number. And God said, "Kill them
all." Well, that would seem hard, wouldn't it? But that would be 10,000
people who probably would go to hell. But if they stayed and
reproduced, in thirty, forty or fifty or sixty or a hundred more years
there could conceivably be ... ten thousand would grow to a hundred, a
hundred thousand conceivably could grow to a million, and there would
be a million people who would have to spend an eternity in Hell! And it
is far more merciful to take away a few than to see in the future a
hundred years down the road, and say, "Well, I'll have to take away a
million people, that will be forever apart from God because the
abomination is there." It's like a contagion. God saw that there was no
cure for it. It wasn't going to change, and all they would do is cause
trouble for the Israelites and pull the Israelites away from God and
prevent the truth of God from reaching the earth. And so God in love --
and that was a loving thing -- took away a small number that he might
not have to take away a large number



If you follow the Bible, you know that most religions believe that there
were historical times when the Earth was beset by natural disasters brought
on by God's wrath at mans' sins.

But there is a difference between believing that God should punish the
sinners, and believing that man ought to do it for him.

The Muslim fundies believe they are doing Allah's work by bringing death and
destruction upon the infidels.

The Christian fundies believe that it is up to God Himself to bring the
death and destruction.

There's a big difference in those two idealogies.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

But to suggest that the Christian right is anything like the Muslim
fundamentalists is an outright joke.

An awful lot of them cheered when Bernard Slepian was murdered.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

Doug,
I must have missed that TV or Newspaper Report concerning the cheering
Christians.

Do you have a link?

I thought ALL reputable Christian groups denounced anyone hurting or
killing, even doctors who performed abortions.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

But to suggest that the Christian right is anything like the Muslim
fundamentalists is an outright joke.

An awful lot of them cheered when Bernard Slepian was murdered.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Lord Reginald Smithers" The fastest and most accurate Gun in the World
wrote in message ...
Doug,
I must have missed that TV or Newspaper Report concerning the cheering
Christians.

Do you have a link?

Don't be a smartass.



I thought ALL reputable Christian groups denounced anyone hurting or
killing, even doctors who performed abortions.

Even the ones who sheltered the killer before he left for Europe?

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

It figures you'd be an admirer of Pat Robertson.

Really? Where'd I say that?

I'm not a fan of extremists on either end of the spectrum. But to
suggest that the Christian right is anything like the Muslim
fundamentalists is an outright joke.

The goal is the same: world domination.




There's no real difference between Christian fundies and Muslim fundies,
in terms of "controlling" the population.

That's true for most religions. Don't eat meat on Fridays. Don't eat
pork. Don't commit adultry. Don't drink alcohol. Keep Holy the Sabbath.
Do unto to others...

We obviously are not defining control in the same way here.


If the time comes that the Christian fundies get what they want, the
executions will follow in short order.

LOL. You're ****ed in the head.

Really? Are you claiming that Christians haven't executed "non-believers"
or people of other faiths for "religious" reasons?

Not in the US...at least for the last century or so.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:


If you follow the Bible, you know that most religions believe that there
were historical times when the Earth was beset by natural disasters
brought on by God's wrath at mans' sins.

But there is a difference between believing that God should punish the
sinners, and believing that man ought to do it for him.

The Muslim fundies believe they are doing Allah's work by bringing death
and destruction upon the infidels.

The Christian fundies believe that it is up to God Himself to bring the
death and destruction.

There's a big difference in those two idealogies.

Ahh.

The Roman Christian slaughter of the Jews was an exception
The Crusades were just an exception
The European Christian slaughter of Central Americans was an exception
The American Christian hanging of "witches" was an exception
The Nazi Christian slaughter of the Jews was an exception
The Serbian Christian slaughter of Muslims was an exception


Other than these examples, and dozens of others, the Christians believe it
is up to God himself to bring death and destruction.


You guys are stating that "Big Time Christians" favor such actions today.
That's absurd.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:


If you follow the Bible, you know that most religions believe that there
were historical times when the Earth was beset by natural disasters
brought on by God's wrath at mans' sins.

But there is a difference between believing that God should punish the
sinners, and believing that man ought to do it for him.

The Muslim fundies believe they are doing Allah's work by bringing death
and destruction upon the infidels.

The Christian fundies believe that it is up to God Himself to bring the
death and destruction.

There's a big difference in those two idealogies.

Ahh.

The Roman Christian slaughter of the Jews was an exception
The Crusades were just an exception
The European Christian slaughter of Central Americans was an exception
The American Christian hanging of "witches" was an exception
The Nazi Christian slaughter of the Jews was an exception
The Serbian Christian slaughter of Muslims was an exception


Other than these examples, and dozens of others, the Christians believe
it is up to God himself to bring death and destruction.


You guys are stating that "Big Time Christians" favor such actions today.
That's absurd.

All missionary work theoretically doesn't include violence, as it used to,
it still suggests a certain lack of respect for other cultures.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

NOYB,

Historically atheist or agnostic have committed genocide and killed millions
of people.

If one follows Harry's reasoning, one has to be very careful of atheist or
agnostic. If you are not careful, they will want to kill millions of
people.


"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:


If you follow the Bible, you know that most religions believe that there
were historical times when the Earth was beset by natural disasters
brought on by God's wrath at mans' sins.

But there is a difference between believing that God should punish the
sinners, and believing that man ought to do it for him.

The Muslim fundies believe they are doing Allah's work by bringing death
and destruction upon the infidels.

The Christian fundies believe that it is up to God Himself to bring the
death and destruction.

There's a big difference in those two idealogies.

Ahh.

The Roman Christian slaughter of the Jews was an exception
The Crusades were just an exception
The European Christian slaughter of Central Americans was an exception
The American Christian hanging of "witches" was an exception
The Nazi Christian slaughter of the Jews was an exception
The Serbian Christian slaughter of Muslims was an exception


Other than these examples, and dozens of others, the Christians believe
it is up to God himself to bring death and destruction.


You guys are stating that "Big Time Christians" favor such actions today.
That's absurd.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

Lord Reginald Smithers wrote:
NOYB,

Historically atheist or agnostic have committed genocide and killed millions
of people.

Historically, Christians have committeed genocide and killed millions
of people.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

Kevin,

So have atheist, agnostics, Muslims, those belonging to numerous Asian
Religions and to a lesser degree Jews. Maybe we should kill them all and
let God sort it out.


wrote in message
oups.com...

Lord Reginald Smithers wrote:
NOYB,

Historically atheist or agnostic have committed genocide and killed
millions
of people.

Historically, Christians have committeed genocide and killed millions
of people.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

If you follow the Bible, you know that most religions believe that
there were historical times when the Earth was beset by natural
disasters brought on by God's wrath at mans' sins.

But there is a difference between believing that God should punish the
sinners, and believing that man ought to do it for him.

The Muslim fundies believe they are doing Allah's work by bringing
death and destruction upon the infidels.

The Christian fundies believe that it is up to God Himself to bring the
death and destruction.

There's a big difference in those two idealogies.
Ahh.

The Roman Christian slaughter of the Jews was an exception
The Crusades were just an exception
The European Christian slaughter of Central Americans was an exception
The American Christian hanging of "witches" was an exception
The Nazi Christian slaughter of the Jews was an exception
The Serbian Christian slaughter of Muslims was an exception


Other than these examples, and dozens of others, the Christians believe
it is up to God himself to bring death and destruction.


You guys are stating that "Big Time Christians" favor such actions today.
That's absurd.




Is it?

I don't think so. I think the fundie Christians in this country would like
nothing better than to "convert" or eliminate all the non-Christians who
live here, or to so "Christianize" society that non-Christians will leave
of their own accord.

Note that I am not including "all" Christians in this category.

I don't want to convert anybody. But they should at least assimilate to our
customs if they want to live in a country whose laws and customs are based
on Judeo-Christian principles.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:22:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person,
but
a Buddhist.


Doug, what is a 'Big Time Christian'? I know of none who say that.
--
John Herring

They're the ones with the biggest mouths, John. And, the ones who are so
eager to "share" their way of life with people who didn't ask for that
"favor".


And you have a quote, somewhere, of one of these 'big mouths' saying those who don't believe in his
'religion' are going to some horrible fate?

If so, I doubt if he speaks for the majority of Christians. Are there extremists? Sure, just like
there are extremist Muslims and Democrats.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...


I don't want to convert anybody. But they should at least assimilate to
our customs if they want to live in a country whose laws and customs are
based on Judeo-Christian principles.


If you were required to address that statement toward people of specific
religions, which would those be?

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

JohnH,
Harry is of Russian heritage. Some of the worst genocide and mass
executions have been committed by Russians. Hence, Harry is guilty of
genocide.

It is very easy to play this game.



"John H." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:22:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person,
but
a Buddhist.


Doug, what is a 'Big Time Christian'? I know of none who say that.
--
John Herring

They're the ones with the biggest mouths, John. And, the ones who are so
eager to "share" their way of life with people who didn't ask for that
"favor".


And you have a quote, somewhere, of one of these 'big mouths' saying those
who don't believe in his
'religion' are going to some horrible fate?

If so, I doubt if he speaks for the majority of Christians. Are there
extremists? Sure, just like
there are extremist Muslims and Democrats.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

JohnH,
Harry is of Russian heritage. Some of the worst genocide and mass
executions have been committed by Russians. Hence, Harry is guilty of
genocide.

It is very easy to play this game.



"John H." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:22:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person,
but
a Buddhist.


Doug, what is a 'Big Time Christian'? I know of none who say that.
--
John Herring

They're the ones with the biggest mouths, John. And, the ones who are so
eager to "share" their way of life with people who didn't ask for that
"favor".


And you have a quote, somewhere, of one of these 'big mouths' saying those
who don't believe in his
'religion' are going to some horrible fate?

If so, I doubt if he speaks for the majority of Christians. Are there
extremists? Sure, just like
there are extremist Muslims and Democrats.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:22:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person,
but
a Buddhist.


Doug, what is a 'Big Time Christian'? I know of none who say that.
--
John Herring

They're the ones with the biggest mouths, John. And, the ones who are so
eager to "share" their way of life with people who didn't ask for that
"favor".


And you have a quote, somewhere, of one of these 'big mouths' saying those
who don't believe in his
'religion' are going to some horrible fate?

If so, I doubt if he speaks for the majority of Christians. Are there
extremists? Sure, just like
there are extremist Muslims and Democrats.
--
John Herring

Two acquaintances whose minds were polluted by the same church in Kentucky.
One from Chicago. And, an entire family of eight from here. All talk about
Armegeddon as if it is real, and well deserved by non-believers. Buddhist?
Too bad. Jew? Oh well.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...


I don't want to convert anybody. But they should at least assimilate to
our customs if they want to live in a country whose laws and customs are
based on Judeo-Christian principles.


If you were required to address that statement toward people of specific
religions, which would those be?

No specific religion. But I'd primarily address it towards the group of
folks who work so diligently to change the Pledge of Allegiance, change the
words on our currency, and see that the words "Merry Christmas" aren't
spoken out of the mouths of retailers at Christmas time.

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:18:29 -0500, "Lord Reginald Smithers" The fastest and most accurate Gun in
the World wrote:

JohnH,
Harry is of Russian heritage. Some of the worst genocide and mass
executions have been committed by Russians. Hence, Harry is guilty of
genocide.

It is very easy to play this game.



What could *possibly* make you believe Harry is of Russian heritage?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:18:55 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:22:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person,
but
a Buddhist.


Doug, what is a 'Big Time Christian'? I know of none who say that.
--
John Herring

They're the ones with the biggest mouths, John. And, the ones who are so
eager to "share" their way of life with people who didn't ask for that
"favor".


And you have a quote, somewhere, of one of these 'big mouths' saying those
who don't believe in his
'religion' are going to some horrible fate?

If so, I doubt if he speaks for the majority of Christians. Are there
extremists? Sure, just like
there are extremist Muslims and Democrats.
--
John Herring

Two acquaintances whose minds were polluted by the same church in Kentucky.
One from Chicago. And, an entire family of eight from here. All talk about
Armegeddon as if it is real, and well deserved by non-believers. Buddhist?
Too bad. Jew? Oh well.


Are those acquaintances 'Big Time Christians'? I know some of the Christian denominations are
believers in the 'Armageddon' (a final battle between the forces of good and evil), but I've not
heard any state that 'non-believers' are going to some horrible fate thereafter.

The concept of Armageddon, given the amount of nuclear weapons existent, doesn't seem so far
fetched. There may be disagreement over who the good and bad guys are. The way things are shaping
up, it may be extremist Muslims versus everyone else.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

OT--Arabic version of Mein Kampf
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...


I don't want to convert anybody. But they should at least assimilate to
our customs if they want to live in a country whose laws and customs are
based on Judeo-Christian principles.


If you were required to address that statement toward people of specific
religions, which would those be?

No specific religion. But I'd primarily address it towards the group of
folks who work so diligently to change the Pledge of Allegiance, change
the words on our currency, and see that the words "Merry Christmas" aren't
spoken out of the mouths of retailers at Christmas time.

No te creo, señor.