"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

Every book I've ever read, by instructors like Massad Ayoob, Chuck Taylor
and Gabe Suarez, say best shooting results are obtained when you force
yourself to drop the target out of focus, and bring the gun's sights into
focus.

Total bunk! Nonsense!! Most home intrusions occur at night, and under
minimal light conditions. Same can be said of most assaults. Advising
the focusing of ones attention on sights at night and under stressful
adrenaline pumped minimal light conditions is insane...AND it ain't
going to happen.

Total bunk? Three police/military instructors with combined experience of
over 75 years are teaching total bunk? You should try the aforementioned
total bunk, if you ever actually get a handgun and go to a range where you
can simulate low light situations. How do you suppose you're supposed to
line up your sights if they're blurred out?



Pistols set up for hunting virtually never include laser sights.

Just not true, Doug. Laser grips are not a substitute for iron sights,
they are an alternative for low light conditions for hunting pistols.
Many hunters employ laser grips on their handguns...more all the time.
They *are* an improvement over iron sights in poor light conditions.

No. First of all, most handgun hunters who add ANY accessory to a big
revolver will first add tritium night sights, and then a scope. Low light
isn't that big an issue, since you're not supposed to be hunting after dark
anyway, unless you're some redneck moron who also doesn't know whose
property he's hunting on, and is ignorant of the regulations.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:56:16 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
k.net...

Second (following your post) - This is insane. You think you have
time to
select a particular spot on your target (the intruder)? How does a
laser
sight keep you from exposing your head while taking aim? You can
buy a
laser pointer if you really think this stunt will be effective.
I wonder why these things are true.

1) The two largest handgun makers on the planet don't offer models
with
laser anything installed, nor do they even sell them as accessories
for
users to install themselves. Instead, they offer tritium night
sights.

2) In NRA and IDPA tournaments, there are people who shoot so well,
they
seem like machines. They don't use laser sights.

3) Every book I've ever read, by instructors like Massad Ayoob,
Chuck Taylor
and Gabe Suarez, say best shooting results are obtained when you
force
yourself to drop the target out of focus, and bring the gun's sights
into
focus.

4) Pistols set up for hunting virtually never include laser sights.

Strange, isn't it?

Laser sights are a terrific thing for rifle use in some situations,
but for
anything else, they're just a security blanket.


My understanding is that the laser dot is supposed to improve your
ability to isolate your target, once you are sure you have a target,
in
near darkness. I wouldn't shoot at anything I couldn't see clearly
and
recognize *as* my target. If I have a perp in my house and he's
coming
at me, I'm going to blast him with a 12-gauge and stop him, not play
around with a little red light.

I doubt Skipper has any firearms. He might have a flashlight.
I have a laser on my .45 Ruger and I think it is just a waste of
money. In a serious social situation it might actually give the other
guy a better place to aim at.

Which .45 Ruger do you have? I'm pondering an upgrade.
Have you tried a G37, or are you set on a wheel gun?

I'm thinking of getting rid of a wheelgun - S&W 25-2 (.45 long colt). Too
expensive to shoot, and I don't want to get involved with handloading.
I'm thinking about a Ruger P90.

Might I suggest you visit a dealer range and try out a G37? It's about the
same price as the P90, give or take. Though I think the P90 is smaller, if
you are looking for CCW.

Ranges around here don't have guns to try out. Who makes the G37 anyway?

wrote:

I doubt Skipper has any firearms. He might have a flashlight.

I have a laser on my .45 Ruger and I think it is just a waste of
money. In a serious social situation it might actually give the other
guy a better place to aim at.

What kind of laser? Is it C/T or one of the clip-ons?

--
Skipper

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:33:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Which .45 Ruger do you have? I'm pondering an upgrade.


Have you tried a G37, or are you set on a wheel gun?
KP90
I still prefer the 1911

Any particular negatives that stand out with the Ruger?

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:56:16 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
k.net...

Second (following your post) - This is insane. You think you
have time to
select a particular spot on your target (the intruder)? How does
a laser
sight keep you from exposing your head while taking aim? You can
buy a
laser pointer if you really think this stunt will be effective.
I wonder why these things are true.

1) The two largest handgun makers on the planet don't offer models
with
laser anything installed, nor do they even sell them as
accessories for
users to install themselves. Instead, they offer tritium night
sights.

2) In NRA and IDPA tournaments, there are people who shoot so
well, they
seem like machines. They don't use laser sights.

3) Every book I've ever read, by instructors like Massad Ayoob,
Chuck Taylor
and Gabe Suarez, say best shooting results are obtained when you
force
yourself to drop the target out of focus, and bring the gun's
sights into
focus.

4) Pistols set up for hunting virtually never include laser
sights.

Strange, isn't it?

Laser sights are a terrific thing for rifle use in some
situations, but for
anything else, they're just a security blanket.


My understanding is that the laser dot is supposed to improve your
ability to isolate your target, once you are sure you have a
target, in
near darkness. I wouldn't shoot at anything I couldn't see clearly
and
recognize *as* my target. If I have a perp in my house and he's
coming
at me, I'm going to blast him with a 12-gauge and stop him, not
play
around with a little red light.

I doubt Skipper has any firearms. He might have a flashlight.
I have a laser on my .45 Ruger and I think it is just a waste of
money. In a serious social situation it might actually give the
other
guy a better place to aim at.

Which .45 Ruger do you have? I'm pondering an upgrade.
Have you tried a G37, or are you set on a wheel gun?
I'm thinking of getting rid of a wheelgun - S&W 25-2 (.45 long colt).
Too expensive to shoot, and I don't want to get involved with
handloading. I'm thinking about a Ruger P90.
Might I suggest you visit a dealer range and try out a G37? It's about
the same price as the P90, give or take. Though I think the P90 is
smaller, if you are looking for CCW.

Ranges around here don't have guns to try out. Who makes the G37 anyway?
Glock 37. Shoots the new Glock .45 GAP round. Really nice piece, if you
like Glocks. Holds 10 in the mag, one in the spout. Under $500. Fast
shooter, little muzzle flip for a .45, typical Glock simplicity. I think
I've seen jacket ammo on Natchez for $13 or so a box.

They're interesting, but I want to stick with an ammo size that's a bit more
universal, in case things ever get "funny" around here, a la New Orleans.

Doug Kanter wrote:


Well....I have to admit that I keep a loaded gun in the drawer under the
main work surface in the kitchen. Certain people, who shall go unnamed here,
refuse to understand "the triangle" - the area most traveled when someone's
busy making dinner. I've tried pleading, threats, everything. I don't know
any other way to deal with it at this point.



I have to start paying more attention to this thread.
As someone who spent about 12 grand re-modeling our kitchen 2 years ago,
I understand the efficiency triangle concept...but didn't find a use for
a gun
What if the wife gets ****ed off at you, pulls that gun out in a rage &
accidentally uses it? Here everything has to be under lock & key with
ammo stored separately.

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:


Well....I have to admit that I keep a loaded gun in the drawer under the
main work surface in the kitchen. Certain people, who shall go unnamed
here, refuse to understand "the triangle" - the area most traveled when
someone's busy making dinner. I've tried pleading, threats, everything. I
don't know any other way to deal with it at this point.


I have to start paying more attention to this thread.
As someone who spent about 12 grand re-modeling our kitchen 2 years ago, I
understand the efficiency triangle concept...but didn't find a use for a
gun
What if the wife gets ****ed off at you, pulls that gun out in a rage &
accidentally uses it? Here everything has to be under lock & key with
ammo stored separately.

Well, I jettisoned the wife a few years ago, so she's not an issue. And, the
son understands the triangle because he worked in a restaurant kitchen and
almost had a collision between his chest and a hot cast iron pan the chef
was turning around with. The "other", on the other hand, is often oblivious
to the motion taking place.

Actually, I was looking at the layout the other day and realized that when I
re-do the floor this coming spring, I could decoratively box in the work
zone with a border of tiles. That would make the rules a bit more
lighthearted. "See this line on the floor? Either start peeling garlic, or
stand outside the line". :-)

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"JIMinFL" wrote in message
k.net...
Skipper, you guys have only spoken of hand guns for defensive purposes.
Are
shotguns not suited to the purpose? Could you give me some pro's and
cons
for each type of weapon? Can/could/should a shotgun be fitted with a
laser
beam? I'm thinking you could shine the laser in his eyes to blind him
long
enough for you to flip the lights on and identify him before you decide
to
puree his vital organs. Let me know what you think.
JIMinFL


The "ka-chuck" sound of loading a shell into the chamber of a pump action
shotgun is a sure way to let any intruder know you mean business without
firing a shot.

Here is an interesting article explaining why the shotgun is perhaps the
best weapon for home defense:

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/Home.html


I recommend the simpler over and under, or double barrel, or even single
shot shotguns for home defense. Much simpler. Can be very inexpensive.
H&R makes some really nice single-shot shotguns that anyone can afford. I
have one. It's my favorite weapon for killing empty soda cans.

--
George W. Bush: American Nero.

The slide action shotgun is the best. The sound of the slide is enough to
defuse a situation. Friend of mine, a cop, a long time ago told me of
backing up another officer in a freeway stop. The previous driver of the
cop car had not loaded the shotgun. He realized this when he jscked the
slide. But the sound of the slide working made the bad guy (armed robbery)
very compliant.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:44:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

I'm thinking of getting rid of a wheelgun - S&W 25-2 (.45 long colt). Too
expensive to shoot, and I don't want to get involved with handloading. I'm
thinking about a Ruger P90.

Pansy. :)

I guess, but the other 418 hobbies keep me sorta busy, Tom.

Bert Robbins wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

Bert Robbins wrote:

Wrong, you have said numerous times that you will shoot first and ask
questions later if some of the righties appear at your door.

Sounds like a sound policy.


Well, come on over Don, I'm sure Harry can give you my address


Huh?