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Firefox
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... I don't much like MS application software, but the OS seems fine to me. Whattya...nuts? Excel is a dream, and has been from day one! I use it, but I don't enjoy it, probably because I don't use it enough to be really proficient with it. My client audiences glaze over when they see too many spreadsheets or graphics presentations made up from spreadsheets. They see far too many Excel spreadsheets in their daily work. Some of the Moz mopes should be chained to the desks where the Excel programmers do their jobs. Right from the beginning, so many things were done right. Once, I had 5 minutes to finish entering data into a spreadsheet for a customer, and my monitor died. I was able to finish because the program's got a hot key shortcut for pretty much every menu command. (All software should have this, by law). Commands which worked fine from version 1 have been left alone right up until now, so there's no need to relearn anything. |
Firefox
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
snip... Anyway, I'm thinking of uncovering the Halman and sailing it next week - don't know yet - gotta see what the weather does. Wanna go along? :) Later, Tom Would love to. I haven't even gotten my cover on yet but at least the trailer/boat is up on blocks with the tires removed and the outboard is in my basement. I'd better get my butt in gear...we may have our first snow this weekend. |
Firefox
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:21:20 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... I don't much like MS application software, but the OS seems fine to me. Whattya...nuts? Excel is a dream, and has been from day one! Back when I really cared about these things, I preferred Oracle to Excel, but I agree with you - I would only include Oracle in that same genre because they do what they are supposed to do and do it well. Later, Tom Excel had to work right. It was uncle Bill's Lotus killer. |
Firefox
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:22:15 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. Anyway, I'm thinking of uncovering the Halman and sailing it next week - don't know yet - gotta see what the weather does. Wanna go along? :) Isn't it a bit nipply out for sailing? :-) Not for real men - manly men - men.... Er... Anyway... One of the funniest lines ever uttered in a movie was "Attack of The Killer Tomatoes" during one of the meeting scenes when the protagonist says "There's a little nip in the air" and the Japanese scientist says "Where?". One of the best "cult" movies ever made. Later, Tom Thanks. Just added it to the Netflix list. My son is developing a healthy appetite for cheap laughs. He and some friends watched Caddy Shack 4 times last weekend. I'm a proud dad. |
Firefox
"K. Smith" wrote in message ... Bill McKee wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:53:46 -0500, " *JimH*" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message m... On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:58:11 -0600, Q wrote: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:11:49 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: It does not - it never has. Take a image from my site - any one of them - http://www.swsports.org/images and look at it in Firefox. Then bring up that same image in Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro - you will see the difference. IE handles CSS well - Firefox, Opera and others don't. Otherwise, why would you have to embed data via Photoshop and PSP to make it display properly on Firefox or Opera? You got it backwards. http://www.positioniseverything.net/ Well, I've already admitted that I'm wrong, I'm here in front of God and everybody that I'm wrong. Ok? I AM WRONG!!!! Firefox still sucks. :) Wrong again Tom. Twice in one night? Hey - I'm man enough to admit it. Something a lot of people around here could practice on occasion I might add. :) Later, Tom I do not use Firefox. I use IE as that is the standard. As to Firefox and Unix / derivatives there will always be bugs in them. Sorry can't sit by & let the best thing siunce sliced bread get done over without at least trying to help you. MS is the worlds originators of "bugs" & they sell the stuff for big bucks full of them:-) For years Unix was written mostly as senior thesis add-on. The Core was AT&T but all the drivers etc. were add-on. They did not handle error conditions worth crap! I remember Unix creating thousands of pages of error logs because they could not handle a disk drive getting off track. This is a sign that the whole operating system had lots of holes. Admitted error conditions are the hardest thing to test, but if you need a senior thesis, and the software works for your thesis advisor, you going to go further? So I guess all the really critical big systems are wrong then?? the govt departments, USPTO?? etc etc ??? Unix when compared to toy systems like MS is rock solid, you need to actually find out before you play lets pretend around here. Same thing will be with Firefox and the Linux operating system. The holes may get patched faster, The "holes" as you say do get fixed & you don't need to wait & then pay for a fix to an MS product that was marketed in a defective state. but if you think it is immune to virus infection, we have a bridge to sell you, or some money in Nigeria to transfer to you. I never said there was no virus for linux but any that do come along (& they do from time to time) are quickly & publicly dealt with by the myriad users & groups & forums around the world & the system just gets more secure & more solid. Compare that with how MS handle the reason their product is so virus ridden, they blame others for not spending enough money on security. Indeed there's a complete industry bleeding even more money from you simpletons, selling you fixes for the defective MS operating system. As I pointed out to sad Tommy you're all about to be taken to the cleaners yet again but this time you'll be locked in well & truely & probably given more troubles than you have with XP. Virus's are written for the 90% of the world using the same operating system. Why write for the minority? Or why write for those that can access exactly how their software works via the source code & can fix a virus in no time flat, all the while learning more of their own system. Nope sorry I have to say don't be a cry baby & give it a try, yes being dumbed down by MS for so long you'll have a few oopses on the carpet but once you get into the swing of it you'll learn what your machine can really be made to do & you'll have access to more software than you can imagine, gee you might even contribute some yourself. Come on be like big bad E-Tec dealer lacky Tommy & admit you're just scared of finding out. K So go with Unix and it's varients. Lots of IT people go for the Unix variations because that is what they learned on in school. And why did they learn in UNIX? Because it was cheap to schools. AT&T sent a tape of the UNIX OS to a school for like $125 (or less) media copying charge. DEC charged $25k for an OS system when most of the universities were using DEC hardware. And for a limitied job enviroment, UNIX can be configured to be quick and safe. And a server is a limited job. You do not have 20-100 different programs running or to be ran. As to Word Perfect, was the best word precessing program for years, and still has the best dictionary. But the company screwed the pooch big time. I have a friend who at the time Bill Gates was running around with prototype copies of Windows was the General Manager of Word Perfect and told the CEO / Chairman that they need to look at writing for Windows. and the CEO said no. And to those who say Word is bloated, when Word Perfect 6.0 came out it was about 28 Mbytes of bloat. Even in WP's prime time, why did they not use the Function keys? Somebody may replace MS in a future time, but it is a distant future. And if you complain about the cost, think back to when OS cost a whole lot more than a boat buck. |
Firefox
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 12:18:48 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: Q wrote: On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:41:19 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote: So I guess all the really critical big systems are wrong then?? the govt departments, USPTO?? etc etc ??? Unix when compared to toy systems like MS is rock solid, you need to actually find out before you play lets pretend around here. The FreeBSD'ers have a web site somewhere they have a list of the longest uptime servers. Measured in years. Mostly unixes of some varity. Linux is the operating system for those tired of Windows FreeBSD is the OS of choice for those tired of the linux holy wars. For those running desktops and not servers, I suspect Linux has appeal on a number of fronts, but... I think Win XP Pro offers a lot more, in terms of working well with the widest variety of professionally supported applications, and the latest appealing hardware. I don't much like MS application software, but the OS seems fine to me. As soon as I booted up my new home-assembled computer, it recognized EVERYTHING. When I installed LINUX on my backup machine, I had to go looking for drivers, and I didn't find any at that time for several devices. Q actually had it right, although I'm not sure he realized it. Unix/Linux has the same semi-quasi cult following as Apple does. Unix/Linux can't do no wrong and neither can Apple Macs - in the case of Apple users, they don't know any better, in the case of Unix/Linux they are nerds and know it all and you can't convince them otherwise. Later, Tom Secret knowledge is always attractive, even if it's only of use to the person who has it. |
Firefox
"Bill McKee" wrote in message nk.net... "K. Smith" wrote in message ... Bill McKee wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:53:46 -0500, " *JimH*" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message om... On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:58:11 -0600, Q wrote: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:11:49 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: It does not - it never has. Take a image from my site - any one of them - http://www.swsports.org/images and look at it in Firefox. Then bring up that same image in Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro - you will see the difference. IE handles CSS well - Firefox, Opera and others don't. Otherwise, why would you have to embed data via Photoshop and PSP to make it display properly on Firefox or Opera? You got it backwards. http://www.positioniseverything.net/ Well, I've already admitted that I'm wrong, I'm here in front of God and everybody that I'm wrong. Ok? I AM WRONG!!!! Firefox still sucks. :) Wrong again Tom. Twice in one night? Hey - I'm man enough to admit it. Something a lot of people around here could practice on occasion I might add. :) Later, Tom I do not use Firefox. I use IE as that is the standard. As to Firefox and Unix / derivatives there will always be bugs in them. Sorry can't sit by & let the best thing siunce sliced bread get done over without at least trying to help you. MS is the worlds originators of "bugs" & they sell the stuff for big bucks full of them:-) For years Unix was written mostly as senior thesis add-on. The Core was AT&T but all the drivers etc. were add-on. They did not handle error conditions worth crap! I remember Unix creating thousands of pages of error logs because they could not handle a disk drive getting off track. This is a sign that the whole operating system had lots of holes. Admitted error conditions are the hardest thing to test, but if you need a senior thesis, and the software works for your thesis advisor, you going to go further? So I guess all the really critical big systems are wrong then?? the govt departments, USPTO?? etc etc ??? Unix when compared to toy systems like MS is rock solid, you need to actually find out before you play lets pretend around here. Same thing will be with Firefox and the Linux operating system. The holes may get patched faster, The "holes" as you say do get fixed & you don't need to wait & then pay for a fix to an MS product that was marketed in a defective state. but if you think it is immune to virus infection, we have a bridge to sell you, or some money in Nigeria to transfer to you. I never said there was no virus for linux but any that do come along (& they do from time to time) are quickly & publicly dealt with by the myriad users & groups & forums around the world & the system just gets more secure & more solid. Compare that with how MS handle the reason their product is so virus ridden, they blame others for not spending enough money on security. Indeed there's a complete industry bleeding even more money from you simpletons, selling you fixes for the defective MS operating system. As I pointed out to sad Tommy you're all about to be taken to the cleaners yet again but this time you'll be locked in well & truely & probably given more troubles than you have with XP. Virus's are written for the 90% of the world using the same operating system. Why write for the minority? Or why write for those that can access exactly how their software works via the source code & can fix a virus in no time flat, all the while learning more of their own system. Nope sorry I have to say don't be a cry baby & give it a try, yes being dumbed down by MS for so long you'll have a few oopses on the carpet but once you get into the swing of it you'll learn what your machine can really be made to do & you'll have access to more software than you can imagine, gee you might even contribute some yourself. Come on be like big bad E-Tec dealer lacky Tommy & admit you're just scared of finding out. K So go with Unix and it's varients. Lots of IT people go for the Unix variations because that is what they learned on in school. And why did they learn in UNIX? Because it was cheap to schools. AT&T sent a tape of the UNIX OS to a school for like $125 (or less) media copying charge. DEC charged $25k for an OS system when most of the universities were using DEC hardware. And for a limitied job enviroment, UNIX can be configured to be quick and safe. And a server is a limited job. You do not have 20-100 different programs running or to be ran. As to Word Perfect, was the best word precessing program for years, and still has the best dictionary. But the company screwed the pooch big time. I have a friend who at the time Bill Gates was running around with prototype copies of Windows was the General Manager of Word Perfect and told the CEO / Chairman that they need to look at writing for Windows. and the CEO said no. And to those who say Word is bloated, when Word Perfect 6.0 came out it was about 28 Mbytes of bloat. Even in WP's prime time, why did they not use the Function keys? Somebody may replace MS in a future time, but it is a distant future. And if you complain about the cost, think back to when OS cost a whole lot more than a boat buck. I seem to recall paying close to $250-300 for WordPerfect 5.1, in 1988. |
Firefox
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message nk.net... "K. Smith" wrote in message ... Bill McKee wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:53:46 -0500, " *JimH*" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message news:402vo11po49ulj9kruf4daa9b392rfeesv@4ax. com... On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:58:11 -0600, Q wrote: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:11:49 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: It does not - it never has. Take a image from my site - any one of them - http://www.swsports.org/images and look at it in Firefox. Then bring up that same image in Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro - you will see the difference. IE handles CSS well - Firefox, Opera and others don't. Otherwise, why would you have to embed data via Photoshop and PSP to make it display properly on Firefox or Opera? You got it backwards. http://www.positioniseverything.net/ Well, I've already admitted that I'm wrong, I'm here in front of God and everybody that I'm wrong. Ok? I AM WRONG!!!! Firefox still sucks. :) Wrong again Tom. Twice in one night? Hey - I'm man enough to admit it. Something a lot of people around here could practice on occasion I might add. :) Later, Tom I do not use Firefox. I use IE as that is the standard. As to Firefox and Unix / derivatives there will always be bugs in them. Sorry can't sit by & let the best thing siunce sliced bread get done over without at least trying to help you. MS is the worlds originators of "bugs" & they sell the stuff for big bucks full of them:-) For years Unix was written mostly as senior thesis add-on. The Core was AT&T but all the drivers etc. were add-on. They did not handle error conditions worth crap! I remember Unix creating thousands of pages of error logs because they could not handle a disk drive getting off track. This is a sign that the whole operating system had lots of holes. Admitted error conditions are the hardest thing to test, but if you need a senior thesis, and the software works for your thesis advisor, you going to go further? So I guess all the really critical big systems are wrong then?? the govt departments, USPTO?? etc etc ??? Unix when compared to toy systems like MS is rock solid, you need to actually find out before you play lets pretend around here. Same thing will be with Firefox and the Linux operating system. The holes may get patched faster, The "holes" as you say do get fixed & you don't need to wait & then pay for a fix to an MS product that was marketed in a defective state. but if you think it is immune to virus infection, we have a bridge to sell you, or some money in Nigeria to transfer to you. I never said there was no virus for linux but any that do come along (& they do from time to time) are quickly & publicly dealt with by the myriad users & groups & forums around the world & the system just gets more secure & more solid. Compare that with how MS handle the reason their product is so virus ridden, they blame others for not spending enough money on security. Indeed there's a complete industry bleeding even more money from you simpletons, selling you fixes for the defective MS operating system. As I pointed out to sad Tommy you're all about to be taken to the cleaners yet again but this time you'll be locked in well & truely & probably given more troubles than you have with XP. Virus's are written for the 90% of the world using the same operating system. Why write for the minority? Or why write for those that can access exactly how their software works via the source code & can fix a virus in no time flat, all the while learning more of their own system. Nope sorry I have to say don't be a cry baby & give it a try, yes being dumbed down by MS for so long you'll have a few oopses on the carpet but once you get into the swing of it you'll learn what your machine can really be made to do & you'll have access to more software than you can imagine, gee you might even contribute some yourself. Come on be like big bad E-Tec dealer lacky Tommy & admit you're just scared of finding out. K So go with Unix and it's varients. Lots of IT people go for the Unix variations because that is what they learned on in school. And why did they learn in UNIX? Because it was cheap to schools. AT&T sent a tape of the UNIX OS to a school for like $125 (or less) media copying charge. DEC charged $25k for an OS system when most of the universities were using DEC hardware. And for a limitied job enviroment, UNIX can be configured to be quick and safe. And a server is a limited job. You do not have 20-100 different programs running or to be ran. As to Word Perfect, was the best word precessing program for years, and still has the best dictionary. But the company screwed the pooch big time. I have a friend who at the time Bill Gates was running around with prototype copies of Windows was the General Manager of Word Perfect and told the CEO / Chairman that they need to look at writing for Windows. and the CEO said no. And to those who say Word is bloated, when Word Perfect 6.0 came out it was about 28 Mbytes of bloat. Even in WP's prime time, why did they not use the Function keys? Somebody may replace MS in a future time, but it is a distant future. And if you complain about the cost, think back to when OS cost a whole lot more than a boat buck. I seem to recall paying close to $250-300 for WordPerfect 5.1, in 1988. At least that. The hard thing to convict MS as a monopoly in a court is they have to prove damage to the public. And with the cost of a PC with most of the required software being much less than the cost in 1990 and that is not even factoring in the inflation factor, hard to prove public financial damage. First systems I worked on in 1964 were NCR 315 mainframes. Cheapest bank system with a couple of tape drives and a drum printer (all upper case) and paper tape and punch card I/O was about $250k. And this was with 20k of 12 bit core memory. |
Firefox
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:17:16 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote: Insurance companies have systems that have been up for decades running COBOL - so what? We *were* talking about operating systems, no? WTF does an application programming language have to do with that? -- Q |
Firefox
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 12:18:48 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: For those running desktops and not servers, I suspect Linux has appeal on a number of fronts, but... I think Win XP Pro offers a lot more, in terms of working well with the widest variety of professionally supported applications, and the latest appealing hardware. I don't much like MS application software, but the OS seems fine to me. As soon as I booted up my new home-assembled computer, it recognized EVERYTHING. When I installed LINUX on my backup machine, I had to go looking for drivers, and I didn't find any at that time for several devices. Exactly. I run Windows 2000 on my home server, FreeBSD on my web server and XP on the desktop. The users of BSD flavors just want things to work as best as possible. I support Windows 2000 and 2003 servers at client sites. However if they want a web server on site, I usually manage to talk them into FreeBSD/Apache. IIS is the most hacked program on the planet. No sense ask ting for trouble. There are a couple of projects designed to ease into a unix desktop environment: http://www.pcbsd.org/ http://www.desktopbsd.net/ Have not had time (or desire) to try them out at this point. Take care... -- Q |
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