On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:11:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 03:51:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...


Here is a site that shows average annual temps various places in the
world.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/

Pick out an area and see what the average annual temps have been. Note
that the
temps of high population areas rises at a higher rate than does that for
urban
areas. In most places that I looked, if the area was urban, and the data
went
back a 100 years or so, there was very little change.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary
to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes

There are hypothesis that the Urban areas are measured incorrectly. Most
readings are from ground based thermometers, and over the years the areas
around the thermometers have been built up a lot. And the extra buildings
add an error to the reading. Spaced based readings have not changed much
over the years. Lots less than the ground based readings.


Yes, the temp rise in urban areas would seem to be related to the quantity
of
concrete in urban areas. This would indicate that a return to wooden
buildings
with straw roofs would be in order. Asphalt and concrete roads also retain
heat
much better than dirt roads, so we should go back to dirt roads.

You're such a visionary. How about requiring that companies use existing
empty commercial real estate, rather than mowing down green space until
there's nothing left but a few weeds poking out of the cracks?


Sounds like a good idea. I've also seen the use of gravel in parking lots,
instead of concrete. Gravel allows water to penetrate and not become more
polluting run-off.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:11:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 03:51:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
m...


Here is a site that shows average annual temps various places in the
world.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/

Pick out an area and see what the average annual temps have been. Note
that the
temps of high population areas rises at a higher rate than does that
for
urban
areas. In most places that I looked, if the area was urban, and the
data
went
back a 100 years or so, there was very little change.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and
necessary
to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes

There are hypothesis that the Urban areas are measured incorrectly.
Most
readings are from ground based thermometers, and over the years the
areas
around the thermometers have been built up a lot. And the extra
buildings
add an error to the reading. Spaced based readings have not changed
much
over the years. Lots less than the ground based readings.


Yes, the temp rise in urban areas would seem to be related to the
quantity
of
concrete in urban areas. This would indicate that a return to wooden
buildings
with straw roofs would be in order. Asphalt and concrete roads also
retain
heat
much better than dirt roads, so we should go back to dirt roads.

You're such a visionary. How about requiring that companies use existing
empty commercial real estate, rather than mowing down green space until
there's nothing left but a few weeds poking out of the cracks?


Sounds like a good idea. I've also seen the use of gravel in parking lots,
instead of concrete. Gravel allows water to penetrate and not become more
polluting run-off.

We're talking about heat retention here. And, gravel would be an insane idea
in huge parking lots where snow needs to be plowed for 4-5 months per year.

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:11:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 03:51:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...


Here is a site that shows average annual temps various places in the
world.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/

Pick out an area and see what the average annual temps have been.
Note
that the
temps of high population areas rises at a higher rate than does that
for
urban
areas. In most places that I looked, if the area was urban, and the
data
went
back a 100 years or so, there was very little change.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and
necessary
to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes

There are hypothesis that the Urban areas are measured incorrectly.
Most
readings are from ground based thermometers, and over the years the
areas
around the thermometers have been built up a lot. And the extra
buildings
add an error to the reading. Spaced based readings have not changed
much
over the years. Lots less than the ground based readings.


Yes, the temp rise in urban areas would seem to be related to the
quantity
of
concrete in urban areas. This would indicate that a return to wooden
buildings
with straw roofs would be in order. Asphalt and concrete roads also
retain
heat
much better than dirt roads, so we should go back to dirt roads.

You're such a visionary. How about requiring that companies use existing
empty commercial real estate, rather than mowing down green space until
there's nothing left but a few weeds poking out of the cracks?


Sounds like a good idea. I've also seen the use of gravel in parking lots,
instead of concrete. Gravel allows water to penetrate and not become more
polluting run-off.


Doug hits a hot button with that comment. So much of the urban sprawl is
the direct result of guvmint and environmentalists. From the regulations
and lawsuit exposure of "brownfield" development, to the "open space"
requirements of tree hugging suburbanites, to the illl thought interstate
highways cutting through the middle of cities, to the endless expansion of
water and sewer systems because they are one of the few money making
ventures of city guvmints............it has all helped create this vast
waste of resources by means of low density sprawl across the country.



--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:11:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 03:51:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
m...


Here is a site that shows average annual temps various places in the
world.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/

Pick out an area and see what the average annual temps have been. Note
that the
temps of high population areas rises at a higher rate than does that
for
urban
areas. In most places that I looked, if the area was urban, and the
data
went
back a 100 years or so, there was very little change.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and
necessary
to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes

There are hypothesis that the Urban areas are measured incorrectly.
Most
readings are from ground based thermometers, and over the years the
areas
around the thermometers have been built up a lot. And the extra
buildings
add an error to the reading. Spaced based readings have not changed
much
over the years. Lots less than the ground based readings.


Yes, the temp rise in urban areas would seem to be related to the
quantity
of
concrete in urban areas. This would indicate that a return to wooden
buildings
with straw roofs would be in order. Asphalt and concrete roads also
retain
heat
much better than dirt roads, so we should go back to dirt roads.

You're such a visionary. How about requiring that companies use existing
empty commercial real estate, rather than mowing down green space until
there's nothing left but a few weeds poking out of the cracks?


Sounds like a good idea. I've also seen the use of gravel in parking lots,
instead of concrete. Gravel allows water to penetrate and not become more
polluting run-off.

The insurance companies wouldn't like that. All of the rocks that get kicked
up and ding the cars. The cars dings would need to be repaire to enable the
owners to believe they have a higher value than their depreciating "asset"
has.

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...

Doug hits a hot button with that comment. So much of the urban sprawl is
the direct result of guvmint and environmentalists. From the regulations
and lawsuit exposure of "brownfield" development, to the "open space"
requirements of tree hugging suburbanites, to the illl thought interstate
highways cutting through the middle of cities, to the endless expansion of
water and sewer systems because they are one of the few money making
ventures of city guvmints............it has all helped create this vast
waste of resources by means of low density sprawl across the country.

It's especially stupid when 30% of commercial office space lies vacant in
some areas, and developers are allowed to continue building new (and ugly)
office space just blocks away from perfectly good (but half empty)
buildings. Sometimes they're even given tax incentives because it creates
jobs. Unfortunately, the jobs end when the new structure is finished.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:57:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:11:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 03:51:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
om...


Here is a site that shows average annual temps various places in the
world.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/

Pick out an area and see what the average annual temps have been. Note
that the
temps of high population areas rises at a higher rate than does that
for
urban
areas. In most places that I looked, if the area was urban, and the
data
went
back a 100 years or so, there was very little change.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and
necessary
to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes

There are hypothesis that the Urban areas are measured incorrectly.
Most
readings are from ground based thermometers, and over the years the
areas
around the thermometers have been built up a lot. And the extra
buildings
add an error to the reading. Spaced based readings have not changed
much
over the years. Lots less than the ground based readings.


Yes, the temp rise in urban areas would seem to be related to the
quantity
of
concrete in urban areas. This would indicate that a return to wooden
buildings
with straw roofs would be in order. Asphalt and concrete roads also
retain
heat
much better than dirt roads, so we should go back to dirt roads.

You're such a visionary. How about requiring that companies use existing
empty commercial real estate, rather than mowing down green space until
there's nothing left but a few weeds poking out of the cracks?


Sounds like a good idea. I've also seen the use of gravel in parking lots,
instead of concrete. Gravel allows water to penetrate and not become more
polluting run-off.

We're talking about heat retention here. And, gravel would be an insane idea
in huge parking lots where snow needs to be plowed for 4-5 months per year.


I grew up on a farm in Minnesota. We had snow for several months of the year. We
also had gravel roads. Believe it or not, they got snow-plowed!

Limestone gravel will reflect heat better than black asphalt, I would think.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"John H." wrote in message
...


Sounds like a good idea. I've also seen the use of gravel in parking
lots,
instead of concrete. Gravel allows water to penetrate and not become
more
polluting run-off.

We're talking about heat retention here. And, gravel would be an insane
idea
in huge parking lots where snow needs to be plowed for 4-5 months per
year.


I grew up on a farm in Minnesota. We had snow for several months of the
year. We
also had gravel roads. Believe it or not, they got snow-plowed!

Limestone gravel will reflect heat better than black asphalt, I would
think.

Yeah well anyway...gravel ends up getting shoved into the same end of the
parking lot where the snow goes, leaving bare ground and mud. Then, it needs
to be redistributed in the spring. It also provides an endless supply of
rocks to be thrown by vandals.

I grew up on a farm in Minnesota. We had snow for several months of the
year. We also had gravel roads. Believe it or not, they got snow-plowed!

You had to mention snow? I just looked out and saw my first flakes of the
season. ;-(

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:11:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 03:51:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
om...


Here is a site that shows average annual temps various places in the
world.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/

Pick out an area and see what the average annual temps have been.
Note
that the
temps of high population areas rises at a higher rate than does that
for
urban
areas. In most places that I looked, if the area was urban, and the
data
went
back a 100 years or so, there was very little change.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and
necessary
to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes

There are hypothesis that the Urban areas are measured incorrectly.
Most
readings are from ground based thermometers, and over the years the
areas
around the thermometers have been built up a lot. And the extra
buildings
add an error to the reading. Spaced based readings have not changed
much
over the years. Lots less than the ground based readings.


Yes, the temp rise in urban areas would seem to be related to the
quantity
of
concrete in urban areas. This would indicate that a return to wooden
buildings
with straw roofs would be in order. Asphalt and concrete roads also
retain
heat
much better than dirt roads, so we should go back to dirt roads.

You're such a visionary. How about requiring that companies use existing
empty commercial real estate, rather than mowing down green space until
there's nothing left but a few weeds poking out of the cracks?


Sounds like a good idea. I've also seen the use of gravel in parking
lots,
instead of concrete. Gravel allows water to penetrate and not become more
polluting run-off.

We're talking about heat retention here. And, gravel would be an insane
idea in huge parking lots where snow needs to be plowed for 4-5 months per
year.

Move south!

John H. wrote:



I grew up on a farm in Minnesota. We had snow for several months of the year. We
also had gravel roads. Believe it or not, they got snow-plowed!

Limestone gravel will reflect heat better than black asphalt, I would think.


All kinds of gravel roads get plowed here.
If they didn't, a lot of people would be isolated.