Bill McKee wrote:
The Mohammedan's were knocking on the door to Paris when the Crusades
started.

Which "Mohammedan's"? Which Crusades?

I didn't realize there were any Crusades in the 1600s.

DSK

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
thunder wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:45:44 -0500, P Fritz wrote:


Actually it is to some degree.....economics plays a major role in
it.......and the fact that muslims tend to not assimilate into the
culture
where they live means they end up religated to the lower end of the
economic scale.

Huh? Islam is a religion. If a Muslim remains true to his faith, are
you
saying he doesn't assimilate? How about a Baptist?


Keep in mind this is Fritz. As in one half of the Dumb and Dumberer
team,
Fritz and Robbins.

And neither sounds as dumb as you with that statement. Assimilating into
the French culture, does not mean giving up your religion. Lots of
Korean's
here in California go to their churches and also do very well as
capitalist
shopkeepers. They speak the language, and understand the mores.

Exactly.........but the brain dead liebrals like harry and "thunder" will
never get it. Their heads are permantly stuck up the asses.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
Either that, or Spain is equal to half of Europe. Can't wait to learn
Moor.
:-)


Good point, 1/2 is the wrong fraction, but I was thinking of veinna it
happened, too.

Still, the wrong century by a couple. Surely the right-wingnut history
bund of rec.boats can tell time better than that??

DSK


Thinking of the Battle of Tours (~mid-700's) Ending the Moorish thrust into
France by way of Spain?

Also significant was the Battle of Lopinto(?)--Sea battle won by an Italian
lead Fleet vs. the Turks (mid-1600's?)

And of course, The Defeat of the Turks at the Gates of Vienna. Departure
points for further reseach on the current thread-All three Battles
considered turning points in a long, long war between Christian West and
Moslem East.

Bill McKee wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
t...

Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up
"Janissaries") beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down
half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.

I don't need to check a map of a place that I lived at for a long time.
They did practice Islam. And most of Europe was involved. Your American
education (or lack of) is showing.


Most of Europe? France, Germany, Poland, Italy, etc etc.... ???



The Mohammedan's were knocking on the door to Paris when the Crusades
started. And Paris is probably as far North as Don White's home.


I'm probably equivalent to the north coast of Spain....or maybe Yaquina
Head in Oregon if I went left.

tak wrote:
Thinking of the Battle of Tours (~mid-700's) Ending the Moorish thrust into
France by way of Spain?


Possibly. That was well before the Crusades, by more years than there
are between Presidents George Washington & George Bush!

But I guess, what's a couple hundred years or so, it's ancient history
anyway


Also significant was the Battle of Lopinto(?)--Sea battle won by an Italian
lead Fleet vs. the Turks (mid-1600's?)


Yes, and that was probably more significant than the siege of Vienna
IMHO (not to take away from Sobieski's victory), because it showed that
the Turks were not the equal of European states in industry &
technology, plus this battle determined who would control the wealthiest
trade routes of the time.

And of course, The Defeat of the Turks at the Gates of Vienna. Departure
points for further reseach on the current thread-All three Battles
considered turning points in a long, long war between Christian West and
Moslem East.


A war that some people on both sides would like to reignite, for no
better reason than their imaginary friend's urging. Some even pretend
this war has been going on all the time.

Scary... but those who are ignorant can be more easily persuaded. Which
IMHO is one reason why the Bush Administration and it's followers are
determined to dismantle the U.S. education system.

DSK

Sammy wrote:
Wow, I thought social unrest was impossible under democratic socialism?


Please, do tell, exactly WHAT made you think that "social unrest was
impossible under democratic socialism"?

Dan J.S. wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message
news
Dan J.S. wrote:
Where are the liberals defending the Muslims now?

yeah, we should just exterminate the pesky little *******s! if it wasn't
for those libby-rull traitors, we'd have Muslims in concentraion camps by
now!

DSK


Where they belong! Unless they want to assimilate into our culture...

Who to hell are we to force "our culture" on anyone else? Doesn't that
sound like other dictator/tyrant leaders in history? Hitler, perhaps?

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
news
Dan J.S. wrote:
Where are the liberals defending the Muslims now?

yeah, we should just exterminate the pesky little *******s! if it wasn't
for those libby-rull traitors, we'd have Muslims in concentraion camps by
now!

DSK


Where they belong! Unless they want to assimilate into our culture...


Assimilate? When foreigners come here, they bring much of their old lives
with them: Music, cooking, mode of dress, dance, etc. If you really believe
what you're saying, then it should be retroactive, don't you think?

- Italians will no longer be permitted to wear huge gold jewelry.
- No more pizza may be sold, except for the raped versions from Domino's,
etc., which are not Italian.
- No more Jewish dishes like knishes may be sold in delis in NY.
- Someone will be stopping by your house to go through your family recipes,
to be sure none of them are in any way similar to those your ancestors
brought from the old country. The recipes will be destroyed, and anyone who
complains will be arrested.
- No more Carlos Santana, or anyone like him. His work is too much like
"world music", representing Latin & African.
- No more St. Patrick's Day. It's now illegal.
- No more Nutcracker shows for the kiddies. Matter of fact, the vast
majority of classical music will be banned.

You might want to think about this big idea of yours.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
tak wrote:
Thinking of the Battle of Tours (~mid-700's) Ending the Moorish thrust
into
France by way of Spain?


Possibly. That was well before the Crusades, by more years than there
are between Presidents George Washington & George Bush!

But I guess, what's a couple hundred years or so, it's ancient history
anyway


Also significant was the Battle of Lopinto(?)--Sea battle won by an
Italian
lead Fleet vs. the Turks (mid-1600's?)


Yes, and that was probably more significant than the siege of Vienna
IMHO (not to take away from Sobieski's victory), because it showed that
the Turks were not the equal of European states in industry &
technology, plus this battle determined who would control the wealthiest
trade routes of the time.

And of course, The Defeat of the Turks at the Gates of Vienna. Departure
points for further reseach on the current thread-All three Battles
considered turning points in a long, long war between Christian West and
Moslem East.


A war that some people on both sides would like to reignite, for no

better reason than their imaginary friend's urging. Some even pretend
this war has been going on all the time.

Scary... but those who are ignorant can be more easily persuaded. Which
IMHO is one reason why the Bush Administration and it's followers are
determined to dismantle the U.S. education system.

DSK

Somewhat the same line of reasoning on the subject of manipulation or
spinning, albeit an even darker world view held by the speaker:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the
country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag
the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
news
Dan J.S. wrote:
Where are the liberals defending the Muslims now?

yeah, we should just exterminate the pesky little *******s! if it wasn't
for those libby-rull traitors, we'd have Muslims in concentraion camps
by now!

DSK


Where they belong! Unless they want to assimilate into our culture...


Assimilate? When foreigners come here, they bring much of their old lives
with them: Music, cooking, mode of dress, dance, etc. If you really
believe what you're saying, then it should be retroactive, don't you
think?

- Italians will no longer be permitted to wear huge gold jewelry.
- No more pizza may be sold, except for the raped versions from Domino's,
etc., which are not Italian.
- No more Jewish dishes like knishes may be sold in delis in NY.
- Someone will be stopping by your house to go through your family
recipes, to be sure none of them are in any way similar to those your
ancestors brought from the old country. The recipes will be destroyed, and
anyone who complains will be arrested.
- No more Carlos Santana, or anyone like him. His work is too much like
"world music", representing Latin & African.
- No more St. Patrick's Day. It's now illegal.
- No more Nutcracker shows for the kiddies. Matter of fact, the vast
majority of classical music will be banned.

You might want to think about this big idea of yours.


None of the classes you listed 'exclude' themselves. Similar to the Amish,
except the Amish do not cause trouble. Amish want nothing to do with our
culture. Muslims are similar. However they still want to make money, but
dont want to accept any of the western ideas, like freedom for women, or
other barbaric ideas.