Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up
"Janissaries") beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down
half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.

And as Doug Kanter suggested, you may want to take a gander at some
Spanish history.

DSK


Dan J.S. wrote:
His greatest success came on September 12, 1683 as victor at the Battle of
Vienna, with Polish, Austrian and German troops, once more against the Turks
under Kara Mustafa. The pope and other foreign dignitaries then hailed
Sobieski as the "Savior of Vienna and Western European civilization." In a
letter to his wife he wrote, ...All the common people kissed my hands, my
feet, my clothes; others only touched me, saying: Ach, let us kiss so
valiant a hand!".



Turning point of when the Turks backed off.

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up "Janissaries")
beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.

I don't need to check a map of a place that I lived at for a long time. They
did practice Islam. And most of Europe was involved. Your American education
(or lack of) is showing.

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up
"Janissaries") beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down
half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.

I don't need to check a map of a place that I lived at for a long time.
They did practice Islam. And most of Europe was involved. Your American
education (or lack of) is showing.


Most of Europe? France, Germany, Poland, Italy, etc etc.... ???

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up
"Janissaries") beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down
half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.

I don't need to check a map of a place that I lived at for a long time.
They did practice Islam. And most of Europe was involved. Your American
education (or lack of) is showing.


Most of Europe? France, Germany, Poland, Italy, etc etc.... ???


The Mohammedan's were knocking on the door to Paris when the Crusades
started. And Paris is probably as far North as Don White's home.

Bill McKee wrote:
The Mohammedan's were knocking on the door to Paris when the Crusades
started.

Which "Mohammedan's"? Which Crusades?

I didn't realize there were any Crusades in the 1600s.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
The Mohammedan's were knocking on the door to Paris when the Crusades
started.

Which "Mohammedan's"? Which Crusades?

I didn't realize there were any Crusades in the 1600s.

DSK


Muslim's were also known as "Mohammedan's" until about 1950. And when did
the crusades start? the first "Crusade" was in the 1050's. battles related
to Crusades, went all the way to the 1500's (Northern Crusades).

Bill McKee wrote:
Muslim's were also known as "Mohammedan's" until about 1950.

Actually, they're still known as "Mohammedans." How do you think I knew
who you were talking about? However, calling Muslim (or Moslem) a
'Mohammedan' is like calling a Christian a "Jesusian."

But hey, people have killed each other over the proper way to spell
YHWH. I shouldn't have quibbled.


... And when did
the crusades start? the first "Crusade" was in the 1050's.

Yep. More than 300 years later. So, your saying that Mohammedans were
knocking on the door of Paris at the start of the Crusades is like
saying that Queen Anne's failure to produce an heir to the throne
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page102.asp

was one everybody's mind when the U.S. decided to invade Iraq.


... battles related
to Crusades, went all the way to the 1500's (Northern Crusades).


hmm... You could push it further than that if you really like stretching
the truth (and I want to encourage you in this, it's a step up from
bald-faced lying). Sure there were a lot of thugs with armor & swords
who liked to pretend they were Crusaders, including the Knights of Malta
(who to be sure, did fight Muslims when they had to, and did it
valiantly) up into the 1700s. Pretending to be a Crusader was a good
excuse for whacking people you didn't like, whether they were Muslim or
not, or if you had any intention of liberating Jerusalem or not.

I guess some things never change.

DSK

Bill McKee wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
t...

Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up
"Janissaries") beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down
half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.

I don't need to check a map of a place that I lived at for a long time.
They did practice Islam. And most of Europe was involved. Your American
education (or lack of) is showing.


Most of Europe? France, Germany, Poland, Italy, etc etc.... ???



The Mohammedan's were knocking on the door to Paris when the Crusades
started. And Paris is probably as far North as Don White's home.


I'm probably equivalent to the north coast of Spain....or maybe Yaquina
Head in Oregon if I went left.

Just to make sure I'm not accused of misquoting you, you are saying that
the Turks (whose troops were not all Muslim, BTW... look up "Janissaries")
beseiging Vienna... and failing... equals "burning down half of Europe"?

You may want to check a map.


Dan J.S. wrote:
I don't need to check a map of a place that I lived at for a long time.

Oh, I get it... you've actually been there, so that makes it much more
important and now constitutes "half of Europe."

Oddly enough, I've been there too. Funny how it never seemed like "half
of Europe" to me.

... They
did practice Islam.

Who? The Turks? Sure. The Janissaries? Some converted to Islam, but many
did not.

... And most of Europe was involved.

Let's see, Poland & Austria and some small principalities in what is now
Germany... that's "most" of Europe?


... Your American education
(or lack of) is showing.

Yeah, that must be it.

Did you ask a Turk if he considers himself an Arab yet? And I hate to
ask you again to do something you've already claimed you don't need to
do, but look at a map of Europe and outline all the area which the
Ottomans occupied... or marched over. It's a large area, but it's not
half and certainly a long darn way from "most" of Europe.

DSK