Horrible boating accident
 

Most were elderly. Cause is suspected to be the wake from a larger, passing
boat.

But 48 or 49 people on a 40 ft boat?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051003/...oat_overturned


Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Most were elderly. Cause is suspected to be the wake from a larger,
passing boat.

But 48 or 49 people on a 40 ft boat?

Seems excessive. And, why travel that far to see leaves changing color? They
could've headed North in Michigan.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Most were elderly. Cause is suspected to be the wake from a larger,
passing
boat.
But 48 or 49 people on a 40 ft boat?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051003/...oat_overturned
Eisboch

How could this happen on a calm lake? No waves or wind action at all. Does
anyone have the details?

Jim

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Most were elderly. Cause is suspected to be the wake from a larger,
passing
boat.
But 48 or 49 people on a 40 ft boat?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051003/...oat_overturned
Eisboch

How could this happen on a calm lake? No waves or wind action at all.
Does
anyone have the details?

Jim



My parents had a 47 ft Concord many years ago. If the whole family (2
adults, 2 teens, 1 litle kid) stood on one side, the boat leaned very
slightly. This is conjecture, but 48 people on a 40 ft boat, with unknown
hull design, big wake (maybe) from another boat, and passengers perhaps on
an uppper deck...who knows what might happen? It'll be interesting to see
how this story develops.

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Most were elderly. Cause is suspected to be the wake from a larger,
passing
boat.
But 48 or 49 people on a 40 ft boat?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051003/...oat_overturned
Eisboch

How could this happen on a calm lake? No waves or wind action at all.
Does
anyone have the details?

Jim




========================
The accident on Lake George may have occurred when the boat was hit by the
wake of a larger vessel, Warren County Sheriff Larry Cleveland said.
============================

Doug Kanter wrote:



My parents had a 47 ft Concord many years ago. If the whole family (2
adults, 2 teens, 1 litle kid) stood on one side, the boat leaned very
slightly. This is conjecture, but 48 people on a 40 ft boat, with unknown
hull design, big wake (maybe) from another boat, and passengers perhaps on
an uppper deck...who knows what might happen? It'll be interesting to see
how this story develops.



Here's the boat:

http://www.lakegeorgeshoreline.com/b...thanallen.html

Rob

"trainfan1" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:



My parents had a 47 ft Concord many years ago. If the whole family (2
adults, 2 teens, 1 litle kid) stood on one side, the boat leaned very
slightly. This is conjecture, but 48 people on a 40 ft boat, with unknown
hull design, big wake (maybe) from another boat, and passengers perhaps
on an uppper deck...who knows what might happen? It'll be interesting to
see how this story develops.

Here's the boat:

http://www.lakegeorgeshoreline.com/b...thanallen.html

Rob

You know, although I read that the official capacity of this boat was 50
people, it just doesn't look like it should be rated that high.

My boat's official LOA is just over 52' and has a 15' beam. The maximum
number of people I've ever had on it while underway was twenty-one that
included me, Mrs. E. and my brother as crew and, sixteen 10-16 year olds
from a local home for mentally challenged kids, plus two adult chaperones
from the home. We were checked out by the local USCG before getting underway
and escorted by them and the local harbormaster boats during the one hour
cruise. It was a boatfull of people on a 52' boat.

I can't imagine having more than double that many people on it while
underway on a boat that is 12 feet smaller.

Eisboch

Eisboch,
Obviously you are correct, or the boat would hot have overturned, but their
is a big difference between your boat and this "cruise boat". This "cruise
boat" is nothing more than rows of seats for the tourist.


"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"trainfan1" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:



My parents had a 47 ft Concord many years ago. If the whole family (2
adults, 2 teens, 1 litle kid) stood on one side, the boat leaned very
slightly. This is conjecture, but 48 people on a 40 ft boat, with
unknown hull design, big wake (maybe) from another boat, and passengers
perhaps on an uppper deck...who knows what might happen? It'll be
interesting to see how this story develops.

Here's the boat:

http://www.lakegeorgeshoreline.com/b...thanallen.html

Rob

You know, although I read that the official capacity of this boat was 50
people, it just doesn't look like it should be rated that high.

My boat's official LOA is just over 52' and has a 15' beam. The maximum
number of people I've ever had on it while underway was twenty-one that
included me, Mrs. E. and my brother as crew and, sixteen 10-16 year olds
from a local home for mentally challenged kids, plus two adult chaperones
from the home. We were checked out by the local USCG before getting
underway and escorted by them and the local harbormaster boats during the
one hour cruise. It was a boatfull of people on a 52' boat.

I can't imagine having more than double that many people on it while
underway on a boat that is 12 feet smaller.

Eisboch

A few years ago, my wife and I took our jetskis up to Lake George. We
launched at the south end of the lake and headed north. On the way, we
passed a ferry/day cruise kind of boat. It was close to 200' long with
a whole lotta beam.

The wake from that boat was tremendous. I can imagine a fully loaded
boat having a problem negotiating that wake.
John

Jim Carter wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Most were elderly. Cause is suspected to be the wake from a larger,
passing
boat.
But 48 or 49 people on a 40 ft boat?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051003/...oat_overturned
Eisboch

How could this happen on a calm lake? No waves or wind action at all. Does
anyone have the details?

Initial reports say it was hit by the wake of a larger tour boat. If
this turns out to be true, look for the operator of that larger boat to
pay dearly.

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:51:44 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On 3 Oct 2005 09:13:49 -0700, "Curtis CCR"
wrote:


Jim Carter wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Most were elderly. Cause is suspected to be the wake from a larger,
passing
boat.
But 48 or 49 people on a 40 ft boat?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051003/...oat_overturned
Eisboch

How could this happen on a calm lake? No waves or wind action at all. Does
anyone have the details?

Initial reports say it was hit by the wake of a larger tour boat. If
this turns out to be true, look for the operator of that larger boat to
pay dearly.

I heard about this on the morning news and a big deal was made over no
"criminal" violation..... I read that as "here comes one hell of a
civil lawsuit."

Here's a little more current information:
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2033952005
a couple things: "as he tried to steer out of them".
HUH? out not into?

and

"because there was no evidence of intoxication"
Opportunities to clear him are now gone. another
investigation gets off on the wrong foot.
....thehick

One would hope that if a wake was a significant factor, the operator
(company) would be held liable, in both criminal and civil actions. A high
profile, multi-million dollar lawsuit, or jail time, would do wonderful
things for safe and courteous operation in the future.

But I'm afraid this will be chalked up as an "accident". I have never heard
of an operator actually paying for damage caused by a wake.

Is anybody familiar with an operator being held financially or criminally
responsible for his (her) wake? I would love to see a reference or link.

Sal's Dad


How could this happen on a calm lake? No waves or wind action at all.
Does
anyone have the details?

Initial reports say it was hit by the wake of a larger tour boat. If
this turns out to be true, look for the operator of that larger boat to
pay dearly.

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:06:21 -0400, Sal's Dad
thought it necessary to say:

One would hope that if a wake was a significant factor, the operator
(company) would be held liable, in both criminal and civil actions. A
high
profile, multi-million dollar lawsuit, or jail time, would do wonderful
things for safe and courteous operation in the future.


Here's the latest report I heard:

From the website's description of the report:

All Things Considered, October 3, 2005 · Transportation safety officials
have begun searching for clues in the sinking of a tour boat in upstate
New York's Lake George. The Ethan Allen apparently listed suddenly --
possibly caused by the wake of a larger boat -- before it capsized Sunday,
killing 20. Brian Mann from North Country Public Radio reports.

There is a link to the audio at this address:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4934507

From the New York State Boater's Guide:

[BEGIN QUOTED PORTION]

When no speed limit is posted, vessels must always be
operated in such a fashion so as not to endanger others. A
vessel must be able to stop safely within the clear space
ahead. A vessel operator is always responsible for any damage
caused by the vessel’s wake.

[END QUOTED PORTION]

(Link: http://nysparks.state.ny.us/boating/...ters_guide.pdf)

The report I heard on All Things Considered indicates that no boat was
close to the Ethan Allen, but any of us who have been out there know that
wakes can travel a long way, a long time after the boat has passed.





In other news,

I haven't been posting here much, but I'm still around. My father passed
away in May and I haven't had the boat out all year.

And Opera Rocks:

I can created nested rules, such as

If newsgroup header contains rec.boats
And body of message contains Harry Krause

kill file the sucker.

Just for an example.

--
http://frankwbell.no-ip.info/weblog
Updates daily. Worthwhile updates occasionally.
tivoli1 is a spamtrap. Email at frankwbell at comcast dot net.
Opera Rocks! http://www.opera.com/mail/

"Curtis CCR" wrote in message
ups.com...

Jim Carter wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Most were elderly. Cause is suspected to be the wake from a larger,
passing
boat.
But 48 or 49 people on a 40 ft boat?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051003/...oat_overturned
Eisboch

How could this happen on a calm lake? No waves or wind action at all.
Does
anyone have the details?

Initial reports say it was hit by the wake of a larger tour boat. If
this turns out to be true, look for the operator of that larger boat to
pay dearly.


They may get off somewhat, by stating, a 40' tour boat with 50 people aboard
should handle normal wakes found on the lake. And the fact that there is
a normally operating ferry with a large wake, should require the tour boat
to take care for such.

Gene Kearns wrote:



I think this was probably a mistake, but the captain can (likely)
prove that he had never tested positive, He must, by law, be in a drug
testing program.

Wild conjecture, on my part, but I think when all the truth is told,
this is going to be an open and shut case of a larger vessel swamping
a smaller vessel with a "perfect storm" sized wake.

Some witnesses are being quoted as saying the boat was riding bow low /
stern high just before the wave & roll...

I suspect that there will be a minimum of an eight figure settlement
reinforcing the old mantra that, "you are responsible for your own
wake."

The press/media is all over this. Covered by CBS/NBC/ABC evening news,
all with some depth... but they can't get the story right at all.
Everyone is saying there were no other steamships in the area - I could
have told you that from LA even though I'm only 1 1/2 hrs away...

I also predict that the swamped vessel will be found guilty of
contributory negligence in not requiring all of those aboard to
*already* be wearing their life jackets.


No, they won't. It wasn't required locally or federally. The $$
involved will be of such an amount anyway that PFD use / non-use
probably will not come into the forefront.

Rob

Bill McKee wrote:




They may get off somewhat, by stating, a 40' tour boat with 50 people aboard
should handle normal wakes found on the lake. And the fact that there is
a normally operating ferry with a large wake, should require the tour boat
to take care for such.



AND, the other large boats on the lake belong to the same operator...

Rob

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:05:55 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

And the fact that there is
a normally operating ferry with a large wake, should require the tour boat
to take care for such.


Not according to any Admiralty Law I am familiar with.... do you have
any other information.....?

--

_ ___c
\ _| \_
__\_| oooo \_____
~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~
~~~ ~~~~~~
~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/
Homepage*
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Nope, just when you go in front of a jury, and try to put all the blame on a
big boat with big wake, that you did not see the boat, and that 50 people on
a 40' boat is safe in an area where there is a large ferry operating. The
jury may find the tour operator more negligent. Whatever, there will be
large payouts in the future.

"trainfan1" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:




They may get off somewhat, by stating, a 40' tour boat with 50 people
aboard should handle normal wakes found on the lake. And the fact that
there is a normally operating ferry with a large wake, should require the
tour boat to take care for such.

AND, the other large boats on the lake belong to the same operator...

Rob

Says tour operator and his insurance company and maybe his assets are going
to do all the paying.

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:50:33 +0000, Gene Kearns wrote:


I also predict that the swamped vessel will be found guilty of
contributory negligence in not requiring all of those aboard to *already*
be wearing their life jackets.

Also, New York requires at least two crew for any boat carrying more than
21 passengers. One report has the boat with non-fixed chairs. As the
boat listed, everything slid to that side. I'm thinking the swamped
vessel will have a considerable level of negligence by the time this is
over.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4306250.stm

Sorry, but the bottom line when it comes to wakes was stated above:

"A vessel operator is always responsible for any damage
caused by the vessel's wake."

It does not matter how far his wake went. If his wake is that large,
then he needs to go slower to control his wake.

Even if the 40' boat had the required personnel, it still would have
capsized. An extra man on that boat would not have saved 20 people. If
they fulfilled the other requirements i.e. number of passengers,
equipment, etc, their liability is greatly reduced.

The seats weren't fixed? I'm pretty sure that's not a requirement.

John

"John" wrote in message
ups.com...
Sorry, but the bottom line when it comes to wakes was stated above:

"A vessel operator is always responsible for any damage
caused by the vessel's wake."

It does not matter how far his wake went. If his wake is that large,
then he needs to go slower to control his wake.

Think about that for a moment, and imagine being on a jury presiding over
these two cases:

1) Recreational boat, throwing an enormous wake, plows through a group of
small, anchored boats carrying fisherman, one mile outside of the normal
channel, in nobody's way. Someone's killed or injured.

2) Freight ship in the St. Lawrence River travels at sufficient speed to be
controllable for the prevailing wind & current conditions, in the normal
channel, obeying all rules. A small recreational boat gets too close to the
wake, someone's tossed overboard and drowns.

Would you (and I specifically mean YOU) assign blame to the pilot of the
freight ship in the same way you would with the moron in the first example?

I as a juror would prefer to point the blame where it lies. We all know
that wakes are an unavoidable fact of life. Unfortunately, when the
judge charges the jury, he will explain the law to them. It's not that
uncommon for a judge to overturn a jury's decision, especially when
they have been swayed by emotion and common sense.
I agree with you totally. I'm just stating a fact of law. "A vessel
operator is always responsible for any damage caused by the vessel's
wake." Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no exclusions or
exceptions.
The lack of an extra seaman did not capsize that boat.

John

John

"John" wrote in message
oups.com...
I as a juror would prefer to point the blame where it lies. We all know
that wakes are an unavoidable fact of life. Unfortunately, when the
judge charges the jury, he will explain the law to them. It's not that
uncommon for a judge to overturn a jury's decision, especially when
they have been swayed by emotion and common sense.
I agree with you totally. I'm just stating a fact of law. "A vessel
operator is always responsible for any damage caused by the vessel's
wake." Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no exclusions or
exceptions.
The lack of an extra seaman did not capsize that boat.

John

John


I doubt it'll be found that another boat's wake was the primary issue,
either. If the wake was so big, it should've affected some of the smaller
boats which came to help the victims of the capsized vessel. But, it didn't.
So, that points to faulty boat handling.

good point

good point

"John" wrote in message
oups.com...
good point


Maybe I'll be a trial lawyer when I grow up.

"John" wrote in message
ps.com...
good point


Maybe I'll be a trial lawyer when I grow up.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:27:13 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"John" wrote in message
oups.com...
good point

Maybe I'll be a trial lawyer when I grow up.

I thought of law school at one point in my early professional career.

Then I decided that it wasn't for me.

You might've been a real pain in the ass in a courtroom. :)

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:57:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Would you (and I specifically mean YOU) assign blame to the pilot of the
freight ship in the same way you would with the moron in the first
example?


That might really be the point. A jury is supposed to be of "peers,"
but I'll bet that no one on that jury has ever touched a boat.....

Time to take the jury on a boat ride, then.

The new theory the feds are looking at is the fact that even though the
number of people was below the legal limit, the boat was over weight.
The passenger limit on a boat is based on each passenger weighing 150
lbs.

John wrote in message
oups.com...
I as a juror would prefer to point the blame where it lies. We all know
that wakes are an unavoidable fact of life. Unfortunately, when the
judge charges the jury, he will explain the law to them. It's not that
uncommon for a judge to overturn a jury's decision, especially when
they have been swayed by emotion and common sense.
I agree with you totally. I'm just stating a fact of law. "A vessel
operator is always responsible for any damage caused by the vessel's
wake." Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no exclusions or
exceptions.
The lack of an extra seaman did not capsize that boat.

John


Recent news suggest a theory that the boat was overloaded, weight-wise.
Seems the passenger capacity number of 50 is based on criteria that is over
40 years old.

Eisboch
John

Michael Gardner wrote:



The boat had loose chairs in it -


No, it didn't. It has fixed benches.

Rob

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:05:22 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:27:13 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"John" wrote in message
groups.com...
good point

Maybe I'll be a trial lawyer when I grow up.

I thought of law school at one point in my early professional career.

Then I decided that it wasn't for me.

You might've been a real pain in the ass in a courtroom. :)

I would have made a better strategist rather than a tactician I'm
afraid. I have to ponder things for a while and I'm not all that
quick in the auditory processing department - it's called something,
but I can't remember what it is - my wife deals with it all the time
in school (she specializes in it) and claims that I'm a classic
example.

Not to make light of it, but I have a few of those foam beverage can holders
with slogans on them. On one: "My wife says I never listen, or something
like that". :)

It's interesting to note that the occupancy limit was based on a weight of
140 pounds per person. I read a news article
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051005/D8D200P88.html indicating that
because Americans are getting fatter that the boat may have been running
overweight and that the weight of 160 lbs/person should be the new spec.

If these retired folks are anything like the ones I see at Wal-Mart
bulging over the seats of little electric carts, perhaps 160 lbs. would be
a bit on the light side.

b.

I heard a phone interview on Fox News with an investigator who was on the
scene at the time of the recovery. The Fox News interviewer asked about
the "loose plastic seats" that everyone is reporting, and the investigator
corrected her and said that the seats were similar to public park bench
seats, and were fastened down(still). He said that the seats hadn't slid,
but the passengers may have.
Asking the survivors if people slid to one side would be the way to find out
if the cargo mass shifting is what caused the capsize.
I suspect that the captain took the wake in a quartering move and this
caused a couple of severe lists that were exaggerated after the passengers
were thrown to one side after the first tilt. Crossing a large wake usually
results in two or three tilts.

Here's more, from ABC news:
Oct. 4, 2005 - The first 911 call to the Warren County Sheriff's Office
came in at 2:54:33, a hysterical woman, shouting for help.

Within "five or six to 10 minutes," rescue boats had arrived at the scene,
but the worst inland water disaster in U.S. history had already claimed the
lives of 20 elderly people. Their deaths, according to medical reports, were
caused by hypothermia, drowning and aggravation of pre-existing medical
conditions.


a.. Audio: Lake George 911 Call




The response time for the official rescue boats is well above any
expectation, and by the time those boats arrived, civilian vessels had
already begun pulling people from the water.

Clearing Up Rumors

According to Sheriff Larry Cleveland, who examined the toar boat "Ethan
Allen" on Monday, there was no immediately visible evidence of a
catastrophic failure. Cleveland cleared up a number of errors or
inaccuracies in early accounts, including at least one that came from his
own office:


There were no loose, plastic chairs on the Ethan Allen. All passengers were
seated on park bench-type seats, bolted to the deck of the 40-year-old,
40-foot vessel.


There was no fire or explosion as three eyewitnesses reported. The large
plume of smoke that rose as the boat capsized was the result of the cold
lake water pouring onto the hot inboard diesel that propelled the boat.


Although intitial reports blamed the wake of a larger vessel, the Mohican,
for flipping the boat, it appears that it was nowhere near the Ethan Allen.
The sheriff said the Mohican had been plying the lake for 90 years and the
Ethan Allen since 1979, with no prior incident.


The operator of the Ethan Allen was not turning the vessel to shore when it
capsized. He was turning it, perhaps as much as 40 degrees, in order to
bring the vessel's bow into the waves and wakes.



What Are the Facts?

"He told us there was some wave action that he was trying to combat,"
Cleveland said. He said that the operator, 74-year-old Richard Paris, is
both fully qualified and fully able to pilot the boat. He has cooperated
with the investigation.


The sheriff said he and his department, with the assistance of the New York
State Police, have interviewed the 27 survivors but not all of the
eyewitnesses. The majority of the survivors say the vessel listed to the
left (port) before capsizing. Several also reported the bow was down before
the capsize.


The sheriff cautioned that eyewitness accounts can often be inaccurate,
including the three witnesses in this case who said they saw fire and heard
an explosion.


The Ethan Allen was in 67 feet of water when it hit bottom, and was about
500 to 600 feet off Cramer's Point.

Horrible boating accident
 

Here's more, from ABC news:
Oct. 4, 2005 - The first 911 call to the Warren County Sheriff's Office
came in at 2:54:33, a hysterical woman, shouting for help.

Within "five or six to 10 minutes," rescue boats had arrived at the scene,
but the worst inland water disaster in U.S. history had already claimed the
lives of 20 elderly people. Their deaths, according to medical reports, were
caused by hypothermia, drowning and aggravation of pre-existing medical
conditions.


a.. Audio: Lake George 911 Call




The response time for the official rescue boats is well above any
expectation, and by the time those boats arrived, civilian vessels had
already begun pulling people from the water.

Clearing Up Rumors

According to Sheriff Larry Cleveland, who examined the toar boat "Ethan
Allen" on Monday, there was no immediately visible evidence of a
catastrophic failure. Cleveland cleared up a number of errors or
inaccuracies in early accounts, including at least one that came from his
own office:


There were no loose, plastic chairs on the Ethan Allen. All passengers were
seated on park bench-type seats, bolted to the deck of the 40-year-old,
40-foot vessel.


There was no fire or explosion as three eyewitnesses reported. The large
plume of smoke that rose as the boat capsized was the result of the cold
lake water pouring onto the hot inboard diesel that propelled the boat.


Although intitial reports blamed the wake of a larger vessel, the Mohican,
for flipping the boat, it appears that it was nowhere near the Ethan Allen.
The sheriff said the Mohican had been plying the lake for 90 years and the
Ethan Allen since 1979, with no prior incident.


The operator of the Ethan Allen was not turning the vessel to shore when it
capsized. He was turning it, perhaps as much as 40 degrees, in order to
bring the vessel's bow into the waves and wakes.



What Are the Facts?

"He told us there was some wave action that he was trying to combat,"
Cleveland said. He said that the operator, 74-year-old Richard Paris, is
both fully qualified and fully able to pilot the boat. He has cooperated
with the investigation.


The sheriff said he and his department, with the assistance of the New York
State Police, have interviewed the 27 survivors but not all of the
eyewitnesses. The majority of the survivors say the vessel listed to the
left (port) before capsizing. Several also reported the bow was down before
the capsize.


The sheriff cautioned that eyewitness accounts can often be inaccurate,
including the three witnesses in this case who said they saw fire and heard
an explosion.


The Ethan Allen was in 67 feet of water when it hit bottom, and was about
500 to 600 feet off Cramer's Point.

Here's more, from ABC news:
Oct. 4, 2005 - The first 911 call to the Warren County Sheriff's Office
came in at 2:54:33, a hysterical woman, shouting for help.

Within "five or six to 10 minutes," rescue boats had arrived at the scene,
but the worst inland water disaster in U.S. history had already claimed the
lives of 20 elderly people. Their deaths, according to medical reports, were
caused by hypothermia, drowning and aggravation of pre-existing medical
conditions.


a.. Audio: Lake George 911 Call




The response time for the official rescue boats is well above any
expectation, and by the time those boats arrived, civilian vessels had
already begun pulling people from the water.

Clearing Up Rumors

According to Sheriff Larry Cleveland, who examined the toar boat "Ethan
Allen" on Monday, there was no immediately visible evidence of a
catastrophic failure. Cleveland cleared up a number of errors or
inaccuracies in early accounts, including at least one that came from his
own office:


There were no loose, plastic chairs on the Ethan Allen. All passengers were
seated on park bench-type seats, bolted to the deck of the 40-year-old,
40-foot vessel.


There was no fire or explosion as three eyewitnesses reported. The large
plume of smoke that rose as the boat capsized was the result of the cold
lake water pouring onto the hot inboard diesel that propelled the boat.


Although intitial reports blamed the wake of a larger vessel, the Mohican,
for flipping the boat, it appears that it was nowhere near the Ethan Allen.
The sheriff said the Mohican had been plying the lake for 90 years and the
Ethan Allen since 1979, with no prior incident.


The operator of the Ethan Allen was not turning the vessel to shore when it
capsized. He was turning it, perhaps as much as 40 degrees, in order to
bring the vessel's bow into the waves and wakes.



What Are the Facts?

"He told us there was some wave action that he was trying to combat,"
Cleveland said. He said that the operator, 74-year-old Richard Paris, is
both fully qualified and fully able to pilot the boat. He has cooperated
with the investigation.


The sheriff said he and his department, with the assistance of the New York
State Police, have interviewed the 27 survivors but not all of the
eyewitnesses. The majority of the survivors say the vessel listed to the
left (port) before capsizing. Several also reported the bow was down before
the capsize.


The sheriff cautioned that eyewitness accounts can often be inaccurate,
including the three witnesses in this case who said they saw fire and heard
an explosion.


The Ethan Allen was in 67 feet of water when it hit bottom, and was about
500 to 600 feet off Cramer's Point.

Here's more, from ABC news:
Oct. 4, 2005 - The first 911 call to the Warren County Sheriff's Office
came in at 2:54:33, a hysterical woman, shouting for help.

Within "five or six to 10 minutes," rescue boats had arrived at the scene,
but the worst inland water disaster in U.S. history had already claimed the
lives of 20 elderly people. Their deaths, according to medical reports, were
caused by hypothermia, drowning and aggravation of pre-existing medical
conditions.


a.. Audio: Lake George 911 Call




The response time for the official rescue boats is well above any
expectation, and by the time those boats arrived, civilian vessels had
already begun pulling people from the water.

Clearing Up Rumors

According to Sheriff Larry Cleveland, who examined the toar boat "Ethan
Allen" on Monday, there was no immediately visible evidence of a
catastrophic failure. Cleveland cleared up a number of errors or
inaccuracies in early accounts, including at least one that came from his
own office:


There were no loose, plastic chairs on the Ethan Allen. All passengers were
seated on park bench-type seats, bolted to the deck of the 40-year-old,
40-foot vessel.


There was no fire or explosion as three eyewitnesses reported. The large
plume of smoke that rose as the boat capsized was the result of the cold
lake water pouring onto the hot inboard diesel that propelled the boat.


Although intitial reports blamed the wake of a larger vessel, the Mohican,
for flipping the boat, it appears that it was nowhere near the Ethan Allen.
The sheriff said the Mohican had been plying the lake for 90 years and the
Ethan Allen since 1979, with no prior incident.


The operator of the Ethan Allen was not turning the vessel to shore when it
capsized. He was turning it, perhaps as much as 40 degrees, in order to
bring the vessel's bow into the waves and wakes.



What Are the Facts?

"He told us there was some wave action that he was trying to combat,"
Cleveland said. He said that the operator, 74-year-old Richard Paris, is
both fully qualified and fully able to pilot the boat. He has cooperated
with the investigation.


The sheriff said he and his department, with the assistance of the New York
State Police, have interviewed the 27 survivors but not all of the
eyewitnesses. The majority of the survivors say the vessel listed to the
left (port) before capsizing. Several also reported the bow was down before
the capsize.


The sheriff cautioned that eyewitness accounts can often be inaccurate,
including the three witnesses in this case who said they saw fire and heard
an explosion.


The Ethan Allen was in 67 feet of water when it hit bottom, and was about
500 to 600 feet off Cramer's Point.

Here's more, from ABC news:
Oct. 4, 2005 - The first 911 call to the Warren County Sheriff's Office
came in at 2:54:33, a hysterical woman, shouting for help.

Within "five or six to 10 minutes," rescue boats had arrived at the scene,
but the worst inland water disaster in U.S. history had already claimed the
lives of 20 elderly people. Their deaths, according to medical reports, were
caused by hypothermia, drowning and aggravation of pre-existing medical
conditions.


a.. Audio: Lake George 911 Call




The response time for the official rescue boats is well above any
expectation, and by the time those boats arrived, civilian vessels had
already begun pulling people from the water.

Clearing Up Rumors

According to Sheriff Larry Cleveland, who examined the toar boat "Ethan
Allen" on Monday, there was no immediately visible evidence of a
catastrophic failure. Cleveland cleared up a number of errors or
inaccuracies in early accounts, including at least one that came from his
own office:


There were no loose, plastic chairs on the Ethan Allen. All passengers were
seated on park bench-type seats, bolted to the deck of the 40-year-old,
40-foot vessel.


There was no fire or explosion as three eyewitnesses reported. The large
plume of smoke that rose as the boat capsized was the result of the cold
lake water pouring onto the hot inboard diesel that propelled the boat.


Although intitial reports blamed the wake of a larger vessel, the Mohican,
for flipping the boat, it appears that it was nowhere near the Ethan Allen.
The sheriff said the Mohican had been plying the lake for 90 years and the
Ethan Allen since 1979, with no prior incident.


The operator of the Ethan Allen was not turning the vessel to shore when it
capsized. He was turning it, perhaps as much as 40 degrees, in order to
bring the vessel's bow into the waves and wakes.



What Are the Facts?

"He told us there was some wave action that he was trying to combat,"
Cleveland said. He said that the operator, 74-year-old Richard Paris, is
both fully qualified and fully able to pilot the boat. He has cooperated
with the investigation.


The sheriff said he and his department, with the assistance of the New York
State Police, have interviewed the 27 survivors but not all of the
eyewitnesses. The majority of the survivors say the vessel listed to the
left (port) before capsizing. Several also reported the bow was down before
the capsize.


The sheriff cautioned that eyewitness accounts can often be inaccurate,
including the three witnesses in this case who said they saw fire and heard
an explosion.


The Ethan Allen was in 67 feet of water when it hit bottom, and was about
500 to 600 feet off Cramer's Point.