You must be catching up to this area.
Because new sailboats are so expensive, and there was a real glut of
sailboats dumped on the market in the70's and 80's,
few new boats are seen. Sailors just keep trading the existing fleet around.
This year seems to be an exception. The talk around the club is the half
dozen new Beneteau boats bought by members.
Some costing $ 225k Cdn.

Yesterday, after suffering high humidity laying a new tile floor in my
kitchen, I rebelled and told the wife I was going sailing.
The skipper and another crewmember were moving the Mirage 33 down the coast
to the next harbour, preparing for the day trip to Chester Race Week in
Mahone Bay.
Fog had been laying off the coast all summer and when a large bulk carrier
disappeared in front of our eyes at the harbour mouth I knew we were in for
it.
We have no radar, so we used my Garmin 315 GPS to keep track of where we
were and an outdated chart to find our buoys.
Man, that fog was thick! At times we could see3 or 4 boat lengths
ahead...that is when I wiped the condensation off my glasses. The up
side...it was cool.... beautiful refreshing coolness.
We got there and tied up at the private mooring of a friend who taught me
the 'Boating Course' at the Power Squadron.

You must be catching up to this area.
Because new sailboats are so expensive, and there was a real glut of
sailboats dumped on the market in the70's and 80's,
few new boats are seen. Sailors just keep trading the existing fleet around.
This year seems to be an exception. The talk around the club is the half
dozen new Beneteau boats bought by members.
Some costing $ 225k Cdn.

Yesterday, after suffering high humidity laying a new tile floor in my
kitchen, I rebelled and told the wife I was going sailing.
The skipper and another crewmember were moving the Mirage 33 down the coast
to the next harbour, preparing for the day trip to Chester Race Week in
Mahone Bay.
Fog had been laying off the coast all summer and when a large bulk carrier
disappeared in front of our eyes at the harbour mouth I knew we were in for
it.
We have no radar, so we used my Garmin 315 GPS to keep track of where we
were and an outdated chart to find our buoys.
Man, that fog was thick! At times we could see3 or 4 boat lengths
ahead...that is when I wiped the condensation off my glasses. The up
side...it was cool.... beautiful refreshing coolness.
We got there and tied up at the private mooring of a friend who taught me
the 'Boating Course' at the Power Squadron.


My concern is that if the Dept. of Licensing numbers are accurate, the sailboat
fleet is
shrinking. No way will 73 new boats a year
offset the number of old boats that get broken up or boats transported out of
state.

There are a couple of things going on with sailboats. For one, there
are an incredible number of used sailboats floating around at very
reasonable prices compared to new. The vast majority of fiberglass
sailboats ever built are still around waiting to be upgraded. My old
Cal-34 was built in 1968 and is now on it's third life with the new
owners getting a very real bargain even after investing in a paint job
and new diesel aux.

Last but not least, the baby boomer generation is aging and looking
for boats with more creature comforts, e.g., comfortable seating, air
conditioning, queen size beds, microwave ovens, anchor windlasses,
etc. We have all of that on our 33 foot power boat but it would take
a sailboat at least 10 to 15 feet longer to hold it all, and it still
would not be as comfortable. We've had over 10 sail to power
convertees in just my club alone over the last 5 years, and I believe
it's happening elsewhere.
=================================================


On 10 Aug 2003 18:50:11 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
The Washington State Department of Licensing just released sales statistics for
new boat sales between July 1, 2002 and June 30, 2003

The numbers are bleak, as one might expect in a state with one of the highest
unemployment rates in the nation, but one category is absolutely scary.
Sailboats.

Sorted by length, here are the number of new sailboats registered in Washington
State during that 12-month period of time. Note: Federally documented vessels
are still required to pay for a state registration sticker, so the following
numbers should be about as accurate as would be available from any source.

Under ten feet: 2 boats (most sailing dinghies avoid registration because
they are not powered by with a motor of any type)

11-14 feet: 5 boats

15-18 feet: 16 boats

19-22 feet: 13 boats

23-26 feet: 28 boats

27-30 feet: 1 boat

31-34 feet: 3 boats

35-38 feet: 2 boats

39-42 feet: 2 boats

43-46 feet: *no* boats

47-50 feet: 1 boat

In all remaining categories over 50 feet: 2 boats

Total new sailboats sold in a year: 73


OUCH!

(One almost has to wonder if some of the new sailboat sales were misclassified
as powerboats. There are any number of businesses trying to make a living
primarily by selling new sailboats- and if only 8 new sailboats sold over 30
feet
they will all be closing thier doors sooner rather than later)

Compare these numbers to the following powerboat sales figures.

Top category: Outboard boats 15-18' 1,542 sold
Next category: Jet boats under 10' (PWC) 932 units
Third place: Outdrive boats 15-18' 851 units
Fourth place: Outboard boats 11-14' 828 units
Fifth place: Outdrive boats 19-22' 805 units
Sixth place: Outboard boats 19-22' 699 units

The top selling inboard category was 19-22', with 583 units
Other inboard categories were weak, but still dwarf sail figures.

Inboards 23-26' 54 boats
27-30' 27 boats
31-34' 40 boats
35-38' 52 boats
39-42' 39 boats
43-46' 17 boats
47-50' 18 boats

28 new powerboats over 50 feet were registered in Washington State during this
one-year period of time.

I think kayaks are doing to sailing what jet skis have done to powerboating:
diverted the upcoming generations into "alternate" means of aquatic recreation.
It's getting so you can almost walk across Seattle's Lake Union on a sunny
Saturday, simply by stepping from kayak to kayak. :-)

On 10 Aug 2003 18:50:11 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

The Washington State Department of Licensing just released sales statistics for
new boat sales between July 1, 2002 and June 30, 2003

The numbers are bleak, as one might expect in a state with one of the highest
unemployment rates in the nation, but one category is absolutely scary.
Sailboats.

Is this state registrations? Would that included Federally-registered
boats without state numbers on them? That might explain the lack of
larger boats.

Might also be related to climate. I'd imagine sailing sucks in a
place that rains and is cold all year. It's not going to be conducive
to sailboat sales, for sure! Draggin' the mainsail down at 50F in the
pouring rain is no fun at all.....to say nothing about how it feels at
35F.....


Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.

That reminds me of something else that would kill new sales. Not only
are those nice old Cals much cheaper than a new boat, but on that Cal
you don't have to worry about one of the kids poking his finger
through the paper-thin plastic hull with 5/16" of one roving
fiberglass, either.

Compared to the heavy fiberglass boats built in 1969, a brand new boat
at 30 times the price is a piece of crap!



On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 21:29:11 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

There are a couple of things going on with sailboats. For one, there
are an incredible number of used sailboats floating around at very
reasonable prices compared to new. The vast majority of fiberglass
sailboats ever built are still around waiting to be upgraded. My old
Cal-34 was built in 1968 and is now on it's third life with the new
owners getting a very real bargain even after investing in a paint job
and new diesel aux.

Last but not least, the baby boomer generation is aging and looking
for boats with more creature comforts, e.g., comfortable seating, air
conditioning, queen size beds, microwave ovens, anchor windlasses,
etc. We have all of that on our 33 foot power boat but it would take
a sailboat at least 10 to 15 feet longer to hold it all, and it still
would not be as comfortable. We've had over 10 sail to power
convertees in just my club alone over the last 5 years, and I believe
it's happening elsewhere.
=============================================== ==


On 10 Aug 2003 18:50:11 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
The Washington State Department of Licensing just released sales statistics for
new boat sales between July 1, 2002 and June 30, 2003

The numbers are bleak, as one might expect in a state with one of the highest
unemployment rates in the nation, but one category is absolutely scary.
Sailboats.

Sorted by length, here are the number of new sailboats registered in Washington
State during that 12-month period of time. Note: Federally documented vessels
are still required to pay for a state registration sticker, so the following
numbers should be about as accurate as would be available from any source.

Under ten feet: 2 boats (most sailing dinghies avoid registration because
they are not powered by with a motor of any type)

11-14 feet: 5 boats

15-18 feet: 16 boats

19-22 feet: 13 boats

23-26 feet: 28 boats

27-30 feet: 1 boat

31-34 feet: 3 boats

35-38 feet: 2 boats

39-42 feet: 2 boats

43-46 feet: *no* boats

47-50 feet: 1 boat

In all remaining categories over 50 feet: 2 boats

Total new sailboats sold in a year: 73


OUCH!

(One almost has to wonder if some of the new sailboat sales were misclassified
as powerboats. There are any number of businesses trying to make a living
primarily by selling new sailboats- and if only 8 new sailboats sold over 30
feet
they will all be closing thier doors sooner rather than later)

Compare these numbers to the following powerboat sales figures.

Top category: Outboard boats 15-18' 1,542 sold
Next category: Jet boats under 10' (PWC) 932 units
Third place: Outdrive boats 15-18' 851 units
Fourth place: Outboard boats 11-14' 828 units
Fifth place: Outdrive boats 19-22' 805 units
Sixth place: Outboard boats 19-22' 699 units

The top selling inboard category was 19-22', with 583 units
Other inboard categories were weak, but still dwarf sail figures.

Inboards 23-26' 54 boats
27-30' 27 boats
31-34' 40 boats
35-38' 52 boats
39-42' 39 boats
43-46' 17 boats
47-50' 18 boats

28 new powerboats over 50 feet were registered in Washington State during this
one-year period of time.

I think kayaks are doing to sailing what jet skis have done to powerboating:
diverted the upcoming generations into "alternate" means of aquatic recreation.
It's getting so you can almost walk across Seattle's Lake Union on a sunny
Saturday, simply by stepping from kayak to kayak. :-)


Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.

Why don't you ask your elected reps to raise gas/diesel taxes to Eastern
Canadian levels.
That should scare a few boaters back to 'free' wind.

Gould 0738 wrote in message
...
My concern is that if the Dept. of Licensing numbers are accurate, the
sailboat
fleet is
shrinking. No way will 73 new boats a year
offset the number of old boats that get broken up or boats transported out
of
state.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 03:33:38 +0000, bb wrote:

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 02:44:44 GMT, (Larry) wrote:

Compared to the heavy fiberglass boats built in 1969, a brand new boat
at 30 times the price is a piece of crap!

The reality is, there were crap boats built in '69 and good boats
builit in '69. Same thing today, some crap boats, some good boats.

...and the reason we THINK the '69 boats were made so well is that only
the good ones survived.

Lloyd

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:50:11 +0000, Gould 0738 wrote:

The Washington State Department of Licensing just released sales statistics for
new boat sales between July 1, 2002 and June 30, 2003

The numbers are bleak, as one might expect in a state with one of the highest
unemployment rates in the nation, but one category is absolutely scary.
Sailboats.


Interesting stats, Chuck!

I note esp. that the biggest category for sailboats was 23-26ft - I
would have guessed over 30.

As for "why", again interesting question. I've noted for years that
sailboats were notable in their almost complete absence in boat shows.
Yet, most boats you see ON THE WATER are sailboats (salt water - not
including runabouts, skiffs, etc). Certainly a MUCH higher percentage than
Chuck's figures show.

I think it's there's less incentive to buy a new sailboat (as opposed
to used) than a new powerboat. A 10 or 20 year old sailboat is still very
serviceable: you might want to buy new sails, or touch up the paint. A 10
year old powerboat will probably need a $20K engine rebuild or
replacement.

Me, I'm keeping my sailboat, and replacing the engine to make it into a
decent powerboat as well! After all, it's only 20 years old...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 21:00:18 -0700, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:


...and the reason we THINK the '69 boats were made so well is that only
the good ones survived.

Making the "good boats" much easier to choose than in a new one.....


Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:50:11 +0000, Gould 0738 wrote:

The Washington State Department of Licensing just released sales statistics for
new boat sales between July 1, 2002 and June 30, 2003

The numbers are bleak, as one might expect in a state with one of the highest
unemployment rates in the nation, but one category is absolutely scary.
Sailboats.


Interesting stats, Chuck!

I note esp. that the biggest category for sailboats was 23-26ft - I
would have guessed over 30.

As for "why", again interesting question. I've noted for years that
sailboats were notable in their almost complete absence in boat shows.
Yet, most boats you see ON THE WATER are sailboats (salt water - not
including runabouts, skiffs, etc). Certainly a MUCH higher percentage than
Chuck's figures show.

I think it's there's less incentive to buy a new sailboat (as opposed
to used) than a new powerboat. A 10 or 20 year old sailboat is still very
serviceable: you might want to buy new sails, or touch up the paint. A 10
year old powerboat will probably need a $20K engine rebuild or
replacement.

Me, I'm keeping my sailboat, and replacing the engine to make it into a
decent powerboat as well! After all, it's only 20 years old...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Could have something to do with the crowds on the water and the desire
to go where you want to go instead of being at the mercy of the wind.
For instance, we go to an island on the river to hang on weekends...
One weekend a bunch of idiots blew in and "took over" the beach.
Fifteen minutes later, we were at another beach a mile or two away.
Not to mention that I don't have a lot of boating time, sometimes only
two to three hours in the afternoon. I can head to the lake and swim,
eat, swim some more, come home and return to work. Last time I was
there I had to tow a hobie up the canal so he could sail... he had
been waiting there for a while because the wind was coming straight
down the canal which is about 20 feet wide... makes for a tough tack I
suppose. Anyway, times have changed, might have more to do with the
crowds and busy scheduals and, well, not wanting to "work" so much
when we go out to play. Remember, we are all working a lot more hours
now just to survive, don't leave as much time for sitting with
coctails waiting for wind... I must admit though, I am curently
building a sailing pram, hope I don't have to tow it to the wind
Scotty the backyard renegade