Doug,

I think you missed the point of my posts, so often rumors and incorrect data
is transmitted as fact on the internet. According to the Times of India,
they are on the verge of increasing the minimum wage from their current rate
of Rs 64.72/hr (or approx. $1.50/hr). According to those in the Telephone
Service Industry promoting outsourcing of jobs, the average wage for
telephone service center operators is $2 to $3/hr which equals $4160 - $6240
annual income, well above the average income in the US, when comparing the
purchasing power of their income ( $2900 in India is equal to the average
income in the US.)

So if you want your argument to carry weight it is best to use accurate
info, instead of repeating rumors and incorrect data.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:fbTGc.6642$WX.211@attbi_s51...
Gould,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have followed up
on
some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call
center
employees $1 / hr.

Chuck has a job. You want a secretary? Hire one.

1) Your data does not change the basic idea behind what Gould said. Those
people are still paid a LOT less than comparable workers here.

2) Their comparable purchasing power is not relevant to this discussion.
We're not talking about how bad we feel (or not) about their wages. The
point is that we're stuck with lousy service because American companies are
unwilling to pay what it takes to provide complete and proper support.


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:zVTGc.37658$MB3.18218@attbi_s04...
Doug,

I think you missed the point of my posts, so often rumors and incorrect
data
is transmitted as fact on the internet. According to the Times of India,
they are on the verge of increasing the minimum wage from their current
rate
of Rs 64.72/hr (or approx. $1.50/hr). According to those in the Telephone
Service Industry promoting outsourcing of jobs, the average wage for
telephone service center operators is $2 to $3/hr which equals $4160 -
$6240
annual income, well above the average income in the US, when comparing the
purchasing power of their income ( $2900 in India is equal to the average
income in the US.)

So if you want your argument to carry weight it is best to use accurate
info, instead of repeating rumors and incorrect data.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:fbTGc.6642$WX.211@attbi_s51...
Gould,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have followed up
on
some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call
center
employees $1 / hr.

Chuck has a job. You want a secretary? Hire one.

And, more important than us having poor service, AMERICAN ARE OUT OF WORK
because companies can save a buck by sending American jobs overseas.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

1) Your data does not change the basic idea behind what Gould said. Those
people are still paid a LOT less than comparable workers here.

2) Their comparable purchasing power is not relevant to this discussion.
We're not talking about how bad we feel (or not) about their wages. The
point is that we're stuck with lousy service because American companies
are
unwilling to pay what it takes to provide complete and proper support.


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:zVTGc.37658$MB3.18218@attbi_s04...
Doug,

I think you missed the point of my posts, so often rumors and incorrect
data
is transmitted as fact on the internet. According to the Times of
India,
they are on the verge of increasing the minimum wage from their current
rate
of Rs 64.72/hr (or approx. $1.50/hr). According to those in the
Telephone
Service Industry promoting outsourcing of jobs, the average wage for
telephone service center operators is $2 to $3/hr which equals $4160 -
$6240
annual income, well above the average income in the US, when comparing
the
purchasing power of their income ( $2900 in India is equal to the
average
income in the US.)

So if you want your argument to carry weight it is best to use accurate
info, instead of repeating rumors and incorrect data.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:fbTGc.6642$WX.211@attbi_s51...
Gould,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have followed
up
on
some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call
center
employees $1 / hr.

Chuck has a job. You want a secretary? Hire one.

According to the BBC survey of telephone support by country, those based in
the US provided the lowest quality. They rated those based in Europe as
having the best quality, and the rated India's quality in the middle.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

1) Your data does not change the basic idea behind what Gould said. Those
people are still paid a LOT less than comparable workers here.

2) Their comparable purchasing power is not relevant to this discussion.
We're not talking about how bad we feel (or not) about their wages. The
point is that we're stuck with lousy service because American companies
are
unwilling to pay what it takes to provide complete and proper support.


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:zVTGc.37658$MB3.18218@attbi_s04...
Doug,

I think you missed the point of my posts, so often rumors and incorrect
data
is transmitted as fact on the internet. According to the Times of
India,
they are on the verge of increasing the minimum wage from their current
rate
of Rs 64.72/hr (or approx. $1.50/hr). According to those in the
Telephone
Service Industry promoting outsourcing of jobs, the average wage for
telephone service center operators is $2 to $3/hr which equals $4160 -
$6240
annual income, well above the average income in the US, when comparing
the
purchasing power of their income ( $2900 in India is equal to the
average
income in the US.)

So if you want your argument to carry weight it is best to use accurate
info, instead of repeating rumors and incorrect data.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:fbTGc.6642$WX.211@attbi_s51...
Gould,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have followed
up
on
some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call
center
employees $1 / hr.

Chuck has a job. You want a secretary? Hire one.

Great! Then they should all do what Microsoft did (and may still do -
haven't called them in years): Farm it out to Ireland at certain times of
day. I used to get terrific responses from their tech support people.

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:1DUGc.39929$IQ4.24625@attbi_s02...
According to the BBC survey of telephone support by country, those based
in
the US provided the lowest quality. They rated those based in Europe as
having the best quality, and the rated India's quality in the middle.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

1) Your data does not change the basic idea behind what Gould said.
Those
people are still paid a LOT less than comparable workers here.

2) Their comparable purchasing power is not relevant to this discussion.
We're not talking about how bad we feel (or not) about their wages. The
point is that we're stuck with lousy service because American companies
are
unwilling to pay what it takes to provide complete and proper support.


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:zVTGc.37658$MB3.18218@attbi_s04...
Doug,

I think you missed the point of my posts, so often rumors and
incorrect
data
is transmitted as fact on the internet. According to the Times of
India,
they are on the verge of increasing the minimum wage from their
current
rate
of Rs 64.72/hr (or approx. $1.50/hr). According to those in the
Telephone
Service Industry promoting outsourcing of jobs, the average wage for
telephone service center operators is $2 to $3/hr which equals $4160 -
$6240
annual income, well above the average income in the US, when comparing
the
purchasing power of their income ( $2900 in India is equal to the
average
income in the US.)

So if you want your argument to carry weight it is best to use
accurate
info, instead of repeating rumors and incorrect data.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:fbTGc.6642$WX.211@attbi_s51...
Gould,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have
followed
up
on
some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call
center
employees $1 / hr.

Chuck has a job. You want a secretary? Hire one.

PS - According to Carnegie Mellon's Software Engineering Institute, the
quality of some of India's telephone support in the software field, is the
best in the world. They state that quality of support personnel is one of
the key factors for the export of jobs to India.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

1) Your data does not change the basic idea behind what Gould said. Those
people are still paid a LOT less than comparable workers here.

2) Their comparable purchasing power is not relevant to this discussion.
We're not talking about how bad we feel (or not) about their wages. The
point is that we're stuck with lousy service because American companies
are
unwilling to pay what it takes to provide complete and proper support.


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:zVTGc.37658$MB3.18218@attbi_s04...
Doug,

I think you missed the point of my posts, so often rumors and incorrect
data
is transmitted as fact on the internet. According to the Times of
India,
they are on the verge of increasing the minimum wage from their current
rate
of Rs 64.72/hr (or approx. $1.50/hr). According to those in the
Telephone
Service Industry promoting outsourcing of jobs, the average wage for
telephone service center operators is $2 to $3/hr which equals $4160 -
$6240
annual income, well above the average income in the US, when comparing
the
purchasing power of their income ( $2900 in India is equal to the
average
income in the US.)

So if you want your argument to carry weight it is best to use accurate
info, instead of repeating rumors and incorrect data.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:fbTGc.6642$WX.211@attbi_s51...
Gould,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have followed
up
on
some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call
center
employees $1 / hr.

Chuck has a job. You want a secretary? Hire one.

Their knowledge is only part of the issue. If you can't understand them
because of their accent or poor telephone connection, then the service is
worth precisely ZERO.

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:PHUGc.39955$IQ4.22295@attbi_s02...
PS - According to Carnegie Mellon's Software Engineering Institute, the
quality of some of India's telephone support in the software field, is the
best in the world. They state that quality of support personnel is one of
the key factors for the export of jobs to India.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

1) Your data does not change the basic idea behind what Gould said.
Those
people are still paid a LOT less than comparable workers here.

2) Their comparable purchasing power is not relevant to this discussion.
We're not talking about how bad we feel (or not) about their wages. The
point is that we're stuck with lousy service because American companies
are
unwilling to pay what it takes to provide complete and proper support.


"John Smith" wrote in message
news:zVTGc.37658$MB3.18218@attbi_s04...
Doug,

I think you missed the point of my posts, so often rumors and
incorrect
data
is transmitted as fact on the internet. According to the Times of
India,
they are on the verge of increasing the minimum wage from their
current
rate
of Rs 64.72/hr (or approx. $1.50/hr). According to those in the
Telephone
Service Industry promoting outsourcing of jobs, the average wage for
telephone service center operators is $2 to $3/hr which equals $4160 -
$6240
annual income, well above the average income in the US, when comparing
the
purchasing power of their income ( $2900 in India is equal to the
average
income in the US.)

So if you want your argument to carry weight it is best to use
accurate
info, instead of repeating rumors and incorrect data.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:fbTGc.6642$WX.211@attbi_s51...
Gould,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was hoping you would have
followed
up
on
some of the links yourself to see that they really do not pay call
center
employees $1 / hr.

Chuck has a job. You want a secretary? Hire one.

PS - According to Carnegie Mellon's Software Engineering Institute, the
quality of some of India's telephone support in the software field, is the
best in the world. They state that quality of support personnel is one of
the key factors for the export of jobs to India.

No doubt. They turn out 15 million college graduates a year in India, and most
speak
better English than Bubba the HS dropout.

A couple of decades ago, we were somewhat insulated from outsourcing because
even though overseas workers were willing to work for almost nothing, they
often didn't have the skills or education to compete with US workers. Their
training and education improved much faster than their demand for US dollars.
Oh oh.

Gould 0738 wrote:

PS - According to Carnegie Mellon's Software Engineering Institute, the
quality of some of India's telephone support in the software field, is the
best in the world. They state that quality of support personnel is one of
the key factors for the export of jobs to India.

No doubt. They turn out 15 million college graduates a year in India, and most
speak
better English than Bubba the HS dropout.



A couple of times I nave to call Microsoft on a current software package
support issue. If I end up with someone in India, I know for sure I will
end up asking to be transferred to support personnel in the USA, and I
already have escalated MS support because of my role as a beta tester of
new releases. The support staffs in India simply do not know the system
software well enough to make suggestions that are not on their "Cliff
Notes." Add in the bad connections and the bad accents, and you end up
with little more than frustration.

I live and work in a major metro area, and interface every day with
computer folks, usually staffs running huge server systems with
thousands of desktops. None of them have anything good to say about
software support from India.

All it is is a way for corporations to milk more money out of us while
providing worse service.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
PS - According to Carnegie Mellon's Software Engineering Institute, the
quality of some of India's telephone support in the software field, is
the
best in the world. They state that quality of support personnel is one
of
the key factors for the export of jobs to India.

No doubt. They turn out 15 million college graduates a year in India, and
most
speak
better English than Bubba the HS dropout.

Chuck, you do know that India has two official languages: Hindi and English.
Norway starts teaching English in the second grade.

A couple of decades ago, we were somewhat insulated from outsourcing
because
even though overseas workers were willing to work for almost nothing, they
often didn't have the skills or education to compete with US workers.
Their
training and education improved much faster than their demand for US
dollars.
Oh oh.

It sounds like we got greedy. I know that people in the IT industry got
greedy in the late '80s and they are paying for it now with lower wages now.