WARNING: There might be a very small SPOILER in this post.
If you have not seen the movie and can't stand knowing anything
about it until you see it, please stop reading this post.

I watched Master & Commander last night. It's about a British
sailing war-ship fighting it out with a French one. At one point
the French ship is chasing behind the English one. Out heros in
the movie (the English) use some interesting methods to get
around so that they are the ones behind the French.

I understnad that on these ships the stern is their week point
both in construction and because if you can shoot out the
other's rudder they are in a very bad poistion. But I thought
that these ships could only fire to their sides. If that's the case
I don't see how being either the lead ship or the following
one is much of any advantage.

Anyone understand this?

"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...

WARNING: There might be a very small SPOILER in this post.
If you have not seen the movie and can't stand knowing anything
about it until you see it, please stop reading this post.

I watched Master & Commander last night. It's about a British
sailing war-ship fighting it out with a French one. At one point
the French ship is chasing behind the English one. Out heros in
the movie (the English) use some interesting methods to get
around so that they are the ones behind the French.

I understnad that on these ships the stern is their week point
both in construction and because if you can shoot out the
other's rudder they are in a very bad poistion. But I thought
that these ships could only fire to their sides. If that's the case
I don't see how being either the lead ship or the following
one is much of any advantage.

Anyone understand this?

Its like fighter plane dog-fights. You want to get their second, because
this puts you in the best position to fire. With the old sailing war-ships
you want to remain upwind of your adversary which will allow you to sail 90
degrees to his position and which will allow you to bring all of your guns,
on one side of your ship, to fire on the softest and most vulnerable part of
your foe.

"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...

WARNING: There might be a very small SPOILER in this post.
If you have not seen the movie and can't stand knowing anything
about it until you see it, please stop reading this post.

I watched Master & Commander last night. It's about a British
sailing war-ship fighting it out with a French one. At one point
the French ship is chasing behind the English one. Out heros in
the movie (the English) use some interesting methods to get
around so that they are the ones behind the French.

I understnad that on these ships the stern is their week point
both in construction and because if you can shoot out the
other's rudder they are in a very bad poistion. But I thought
that these ships could only fire to their sides. If that's the case
I don't see how being either the lead ship or the following
one is much of any advantage.

Anyone understand this?

Once you are within firing range you would turn hard to starboard or port
and fire your weapons.
This of course is best achieved through the element of surprise.

David
Port Canaveral, FL

While most of the firepower was broadside,
many vessels in Aubrey's day had bow and stern "chasers"

A bow chaser could be used to blow out the sails and rigging of a fleeing
prize.

A stern chaser could be used to blow out the sails and rigging of a pursuer.

In article , says...

WARNING: There might be a very small SPOILER in this post.
If you have not seen the movie and can't stand knowing anything
about it until you see it, please stop reading this post.

I watched Master & Commander last night. It's about a British
sailing war-ship fighting it out with a French one. At one point
the French ship is chasing behind the English one. Out heros in
the movie (the English) use some interesting methods to get
around so that they are the ones behind the French.

I understnad that on these ships the stern is their week point
both in construction and because if you can shoot out the
other's rudder they are in a very bad poistion. But I thought
that these ships could only fire to their sides. If that's the case
I don't see how being either the lead ship or the following
one is much of any advantage.

Anyone understand this?




In the series by Patrick O'Brian, I recall that reading that some ships
had 1 or maybe 2 forward facing guns, and a portable gun or two. These
(especially the portable ones) were smaller and MUCH less powerfull than
the port and starboard weapons, but they could harrass the ship being
followed quite effectively. I have actually seen a could of the
portable guns, the ones I was were 3-5 feet long, had a 1-2 inch muzzle
diameter and had pegs on the bottom so that the stands could be dropped
into a 2-3 inch hole and fired just about anywhere


**********************************************
Scott H. Sexton help@
www.sexton.com sexton.com
Eeyore's Birthday Party eeyore.sexton.com
**********************************************

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 08:47:07 -0400, "Gary Warner"
wrote:


WARNING: There might be a very small SPOILER in this post.
If you have not seen the movie and can't stand knowing anything
about it until you see it, please stop reading this post.

I watched Master & Commander last night. It's about a British
sailing war-ship fighting it out with a French one. At one point
the French ship is chasing behind the English one. Out heros in
the movie (the English) use some interesting methods to get
around so that they are the ones behind the French.

I understnad that on these ships the stern is their week point
both in construction and because if you can shoot out the
other's rudder they are in a very bad poistion. But I thought
that these ships could only fire to their sides. If that's the case
I don't see how being either the lead ship or the following
one is much of any advantage.

Anyone understand this?



Firing at the stern position of the vessel essentially rakes the
vessel from end to end.

Have a look at the following link on the Battle of Trafalgar. It shows
some of the positions the British vessels took up.

http://www.nelsonsnavy.co.uk/battle-of-trafalgar.html

Check this page on the above post's link.

http://www.nelsonsnavy.co.uk/broadside4.html


"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...

WARNING: There might be a very small SPOILER in this post.
If you have not seen the movie and can't stand knowing anything
about it until you see it, please stop reading this post.

I watched Master & Commander last night. It's about a British
sailing war-ship fighting it out with a French one. At one point
the French ship is chasing behind the English one. Out heros in
the movie (the English) use some interesting methods to get
around so that they are the ones behind the French.

I understnad that on these ships the stern is their week point
both in construction and because if you can shoot out the
other's rudder they are in a very bad poistion. But I thought
that these ships could only fire to their sides. If that's the case
I don't see how being either the lead ship or the following
one is much of any advantage.

Anyone understand this?





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 06/23/2004

having what they called the "weather gage" ( upwind with room to
maneuver" allowed you to determine when, where, or even whether you
would fight. very advantageous in a duel at sea. it didn't necessarily
allow you the first shot but it allowed you to observe your enemy at
your leisure to determine any weaknesses. plus if your ship was bigger
than the opposing ship, this generally meant a longer waterline and
more sail therefore more downwind speed and you would be able to
overtake your enemy. if you were smaller, you were usually less beamy
and carried closer set sails (better in coastal work) and therefore
could point higher than the larger ship which would allow you to walk
away if you had searoom.

hitting the rudder, like hitting the mast or spars was like a modern
royal navy saying. most captains can put salvo on target but only god
can give you a direct hit. aiming several tons of cannon from the deck
of a rolling ship with the delay of the powder at the touch hole and
the generally slowburning powder was more of an art than a science.
as afore mentioned if you were lucky enough to manuever for a
broadside to stern shot, the salvo would rake the gun deck from aft to
bow maximizing the damage.

almost all fighting ships had bow and stern "chasers". these were
lighter cannon (not being desirous of having a lot of weight in the
bow or stern plus the unavailable space). however they were longer
cannon so while not throwing as much ball weight they did have more
range, with the off chance that you could carry away some of your
enemy's rigging and forcing him to battle or allowing you to get away.

whew, a bit too wordy

steve scheiding




WARNING: There might be a very small SPOILER in this post.
If you have not seen the movie and can't stand knowing anything
about it until you see it, please stop reading this post.

I watched Master & Commander last night. It's about a British
sailing war-ship fighting it out with a French one. At one point
the French ship is chasing behind the English one. Out heros in
the movie (the English) use some interesting methods to get
around so that they are the ones behind the French.

I understnad that on these ships the stern is their week point
both in construction and because if you can shoot out the
other's rudder they are in a very bad poistion. But I thought
that these ships could only fire to their sides. If that's the case
I don't see how being either the lead ship or the following
one is much of any advantage.

Anyone understand this?





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 06/23/2004

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 08:47:07 -0400, "Gary Warner"
wrote:
I understnad that on these ships the stern is their week point
both in construction and because if you can shoot out the
other's rudder they are in a very bad poistion. But I thought
that these ships could only fire to their sides. If that's the case
I don't see how being either the lead ship or the following
one is much of any advantage.

Anyone understand this?
==================================
Yes. If you are astern, there is very little danger of receiving
return fire since the canon were mounted in the sides of the boat.
The trick is to maneuver and stay astern while you rake the rigging
and deck with your own broadsides.

Here's a list of armaments on a ship that certainly predates the era portrayed
in "Master and Commander"....

But it is interesting to note that in a 102 gun ship, 16 are designated bow or
stern chassers. Considering the finite area that could be described as bow or
stern, that's a pretty fair percentage.


Equipment
Equipped with three boats:

Length, Breadth, Depth.
Feet, Inch. feet, inch. feet, inch.
Long-boat 50 10 12 6 4 3
Pinnace 36 0 9 6 3 3
Skiff 27 0 7 0 3 0


Armament
Originally planned for 90 guns at a cost of £20.592, but this was changed to
102 when the King visited the ship on December 7, 1638. The estimated cost for
the new armament was £24.447 8s 8d, to which should be added £ 1700 for the
last four guns.

Lower deck
Broadside 20 cannon drakes
Stern chasers 4 demi-cannon drakes
Bow chasers 2 demi-cannon
Luffs 2 demi-cannon

Middle deck
Broadside 24 culverin drakes
Stern chasers 4 culverins
Bow chasers 2 culverins

Upper deck
Broadside 24 demi-culverin drakes
Stern chasers 2 demi-culverins
Bow chasers 2 demi-culverins

Quarter deck 6 demi-culverin drakes
Forecastle 8 demi-culverin drakes
2 culverin drakes
Poop 2 demi-culverin drakes