Good day,

In regards to my project boat (75 sunray 15'5) I'm wondering what others
think about wooden floors, and when to change them. From what I understand
the floors of all these boats are built with marine plywood thus they can
take a beating being wet. Now that I've covered the boat I'm letting it dry
up good, and will be ripping the carpet in a little bit. The reason I'm
curious about the floor is that when I pulled out the back seats, some of
the screws essentially came right out of the floor as I suppose enough water
was around them. Going forward I either dry up all the wood, clean, and
paint it then re-carpet, or I look at changing the wood floor (which I do
not prefer to do). I can stand on the floor with my my weight (over
200lbs) and as expected the floor may give a bit in places where there is no
extra support underneath but plywood typically has some flex right. In any
case there's no gaping holes or worn out areas in it, just some screw holes
that appear to be a little weaker around them.

Any ideas?

I have thought about taking out the carpet, waterproofing the existing floor
after a thorough cleaning and maybe even leaving the carpet off (as it
always soaks up water rather than letting the water go away.

"Chris" wrote
some of the screws essentially came right out of the floor

I'm no expert on this stuff, but here's my two cents: The screws probably
wouldn't have pulled out easily unless the wood around them was rotten.
Marine plywood doesn't have any inherent rot resistance of its own; they
typically get that from coating it with a resin of some type. When you put
screw holes in a piece of coated wood, you provide a path through the
protective layer and water can wick in and set you up for rot. (Wood rot,
btw, is caused by wood-eating fungi thingies that are always present in wood
and which tend to come to life when they get a drink of water. Pressure
treated wood works by infusing a poison into the wood that kills the little
buggers off.) If you're lucky, the rot will be confined to a small area
around the screws and you'll be able to splice in some new wood or use some
kind of filler designed for this purpose to repair it.

Thanks for the info, I believe as well the problem was the screw holes.. I'm
going to look into doing something that means I don't need to replace the
wood as it actually gets pretty interesting in that area of the boat, most
of the wood has resin over it and molded very well.. its just the main part
of the floor. I believe its still quite solid.. not sure how to go about
changing the floor yet though as I have to still investigate.

thanks for the info..

"Joe Blizzard" wrote in message
...
"Chris" wrote
some of the screws essentially came right out of the floor

I'm no expert on this stuff, but here's my two cents: The screws probably
wouldn't have pulled out easily unless the wood around them was rotten.
Marine plywood doesn't have any inherent rot resistance of its own; they
typically get that from coating it with a resin of some type. When you put
screw holes in a piece of coated wood, you provide a path through the
protective layer and water can wick in and set you up for rot. (Wood rot,
btw, is caused by wood-eating fungi thingies that are always present in
wood
and which tend to come to life when they get a drink of water. Pressure
treated wood works by infusing a poison into the wood that kills the
little
buggers off.) If you're lucky, the rot will be confined to a small area
around the screws and you'll be able to splice in some new wood or use
some
kind of filler designed for this purpose to repair it.

In regards to my project boat (75 sunray 15'5) I'm wondering what others
think about wooden floors, and when to change them. From what I
understand
the floors of all these boats are built with marine plywood thus they can
take a beating being wet.

Methinks you will end up replacing the entire floor. This happened to me and
the rot had progressed all the way into the transom. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

just what I didn't want to hear... hmmm,

"Ken Ibold" wrote in message
om...
In regards to my project boat (75 sunray 15'5) I'm wondering what others
think about wooden floors, and when to change them. From what I
understand
the floors of all these boats are built with marine plywood thus they
can
take a beating being wet.

Methinks you will end up replacing the entire floor. This happened to me
and
the rot had progressed all the way into the transom. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

I did my old '76 tri-hull a few years ago and the following
year replaced the rest of the floor that wasn't previously done.
It's a pain in the butt because it is time consuming, but really
isn't that big of a deal in itself. As I understand it, the
advantage to marine ply is that it is tight grained, but has no
inherent rot resistance as Joe pointed out. Which is why I went
with treated ply. Besides, I glass over the ply prior to installing
anyway.

Before getting nervous about it, go ahead an rip up the carpet.
That alone will tell you a lot. If it has been glassed/epoxied/etc.,
and this is delaminating from the wood, then you more than likely DO
have a problem and the glass/epoxy is giving you a false feeling of
security since it does add rigidity.

As far as the weak screw holes is concerned, this could simply be
due to the stresses of holding the seat and persons using the seats
over time. Also the fact that the plywood may only be 1/2" thick
and therefore the screws do not have enough bite. In my case
when I originally did this, I went after a roughly one square foot
area that was weak. As I was tearing up the floor to get to solid
wood, it turned into a 9 square foot area. From what you're saying,
I suspect you won't be getting into this kind of project.

Taking out the carpet may be more of a pain than you expect. A lot
could be left behind, depending on what type was used and if the
right glue was used. The carpet glue should be waterproof for this
carpet, but I found (accidentally and AFTER the project was done)
that a little spilled gasoline on the carpet seemed to disolve the
glue almost immediately. I do not suggest using gasoline as a
solvent! In fact, I strongly say Don't!

If you feel your carpet is just holding the water and it isn't
draining properly, try getting the trailer tongue higher (assuming
the boat sits on a trailer).

-Jim

PS: I would no longer recommend treated ply unless you can get the
real stuff (CCA). I picked up a sheet of this new type that Home
Depot sells and feel it is garbage, but time will tell. Lets just
say that after two days of sitting on edge, it developed about as
many waves as the ocean on a stormy day.

-Jim


Chris wrote:
Good day,

In regards to my project boat (75 sunray 15'5) I'm wondering what others
think about wooden floors, and when to change them. From what I understand
the floors of all these boats are built with marine plywood thus they can
take a beating being wet. Now that I've covered the boat I'm letting it dry
up good, and will be ripping the carpet in a little bit. The reason I'm
curious about the floor is that when I pulled out the back seats, some of
the screws essentially came right out of the floor as I suppose enough water
was around them. Going forward I either dry up all the wood, clean, and
paint it then re-carpet, or I look at changing the wood floor (which I do
not prefer to do). I can stand on the floor with my my weight (over
200lbs) and as expected the floor may give a bit in places where there is no
extra support underneath but plywood typically has some flex right. In any
case there's no gaping holes or worn out areas in it, just some screw holes
that appear to be a little weaker around them.

Any ideas?

I have thought about taking out the carpet, waterproofing the existing floor
after a thorough cleaning and maybe even leaving the carpet off (as it
always soaks up water rather than letting the water go away.

On 6/15/2004 12:16 PM, Chris wrote:

Good day,

In regards to my project boat (75 sunray 15'5) I'm wondering what others
think about wooden floors, and when to change them. From what I understand
the floors of all these boats are built with marine plywood thus they can
take a beating being wet.

Actually, it's the rare runabout that was built with any marine ply,
since the good stuff costs big bucks, and the cheap stuff would last
through the warranty period. Most manufacturers made (and still make) do
with standard exterior grade plywood.

Though rot is first noticed around topside screws, the wood in the floor
is usually completely exposed to the sloshing bilge, and so it's
probably only a matter of time before the entire floor goes.

Now that I've covered the boat I'm letting it dry
up good, and will be ripping the carpet in a little bit. The reason I'm
curious about the floor is that when I pulled out the back seats, some of
the screws essentially came right out of the floor as I suppose enough water
was around them.

While it is possible to cut out the bad spots and replace them with good
wood, it is *almost* as difficult as replacing the entire floor. Not
worth the trouble, IMO; Might as well do the entire floor once and do it
right.

The original floor in my Glastron lasted 30 years, and since I replaced
it with resin-encapsulated marine ply, it'll probably last twice as long
this time.

Going forward I either dry up all the wood, clean, and
paint it then re-carpet, or I look at changing the wood floor (which I do
not prefer to do). I can stand on the floor with my my weight (over
200lbs) and as expected the floor may give a bit in places where there is no
extra support underneath but plywood typically has some flex right.

Good (non-rotten) half-inch plywood with a layer of fiberglass over it
shouldn't be flexing much. Heck, even the old rotten floor would support
me standing (I'm also 200+) with hardly any flex, but once I put a knee
down hard, it punched clean through.

In any
case there's no gaping holes or worn out areas in it, just some screw holes
that appear to be a little weaker around them.

Any ideas?

I'm afraid it's time for a new floor, but that usually isn't as tough as
it sounds, especially with an older, smaller runabout.

"Runabout Renovation" by Jim Anderson (ISBN: 0071580085) was recommended
to me by the Classic Glastron Owners Association, and I suggest you pick
up a copy for yourself.


--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

thanks for the info.. as I let it dry I'll take a hammer to it and see what
it does... (plus remove the carpet).. I should have a good indication then
if I'm worrying about nothing or not


"Garth Almgren" wrote in message
...
On 6/15/2004 12:16 PM, Chris wrote:

Good day,

In regards to my project boat (75 sunray 15'5) I'm wondering what others
think about wooden floors, and when to change them. From what I
understand
the floors of all these boats are built with marine plywood thus they
can
take a beating being wet.

Actually, it's the rare runabout that was built with any marine ply,
since the good stuff costs big bucks, and the cheap stuff would last
through the warranty period. Most manufacturers made (and still make) do
with standard exterior grade plywood.

Though rot is first noticed around topside screws, the wood in the floor
is usually completely exposed to the sloshing bilge, and so it's
probably only a matter of time before the entire floor goes.

Now that I've covered the boat I'm letting it dry
up good, and will be ripping the carpet in a little bit. The reason I'm
curious about the floor is that when I pulled out the back seats, some
of
the screws essentially came right out of the floor as I suppose enough
water
was around them.

While it is possible to cut out the bad spots and replace them with good
wood, it is *almost* as difficult as replacing the entire floor. Not
worth the trouble, IMO; Might as well do the entire floor once and do it
right.

The original floor in my Glastron lasted 30 years, and since I replaced
it with resin-encapsulated marine ply, it'll probably last twice as long
this time.

Going forward I either dry up all the wood, clean, and
paint it then re-carpet, or I look at changing the wood floor (which I
do
not prefer to do). I can stand on the floor with my my weight (over
200lbs) and as expected the floor may give a bit in places where there
is no
extra support underneath but plywood typically has some flex right.

Good (non-rotten) half-inch plywood with a layer of fiberglass over it
shouldn't be flexing much. Heck, even the old rotten floor would support
me standing (I'm also 200+) with hardly any flex, but once I put a knee
down hard, it punched clean through.

In any
case there's no gaping holes or worn out areas in it, just some screw
holes
that appear to be a little weaker around them.

Any ideas?

I'm afraid it's time for a new floor, but that usually isn't as tough as
it sounds, especially with an older, smaller runabout.

"Runabout Renovation" by Jim Anderson (ISBN: 0071580085) was recommended
to me by the Classic Glastron Owners Association, and I suggest you pick
up a copy for yourself.


--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

I replaced mine. It's a lot of work. Given the age there is a good chance
you've got some rot in the plywood in the floor and possibly the transom. A
lot of people would just live with it until it becomes big problem. Once
you dig in you usually find out you need to replace the floor, maybe the
transom, maybe some stringers. I ended up replacing the outboard stringers
and renforcing the inboard ones after saturating them with epoxy. My
transom was ok. If you do start it, use epoxy not polyester resin. Visit
US Composites for some good prices on epoxy.

"Chris" wrote in message
.. .
Good day,

In regards to my project boat (75 sunray 15'5) I'm wondering what others
think about wooden floors, and when to change them. From what I
understand
the floors of all these boats are built with marine plywood thus they can
take a beating being wet. Now that I've covered the boat I'm letting it
dry
up good, and will be ripping the carpet in a little bit. The reason I'm
curious about the floor is that when I pulled out the back seats, some of
the screws essentially came right out of the floor as I suppose enough
water
was around them. Going forward I either dry up all the wood, clean, and
paint it then re-carpet, or I look at changing the wood floor (which I do
not prefer to do). I can stand on the floor with my my weight (over
200lbs) and as expected the floor may give a bit in places where there is
no
extra support underneath but plywood typically has some flex right. In
any
case there's no gaping holes or worn out areas in it, just some screw
holes
that appear to be a little weaker around them.

Any ideas?

I have thought about taking out the carpet, waterproofing the existing
floor
after a thorough cleaning and maybe even leaving the carpet off (as it
always soaks up water rather than letting the water go away.

Water probably wicked into the wood through the screw holes.

Marine ply is built with waterproof glue and there are not supposed to voids in
the wood, so there's a chance the rot didn't spread far beyond the screw holes.

Even so, that won't matter much. Odds are you currently have screws just
exactly where the screws need to be in order to secure the floor to the
framing. If those points are compromised, it wouldn't matter much whether the
remainder of the floor is good or not. You could fart around sistering the
framing, etc, but that would be way too much work to go through just to try and
save a 20 some year old piece of plywood. Start over. :-)