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"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "DSK" wrote in message ... You think retirees with less income than they had when working, who are looking for less expense, less driving, and closer care, are going to buy increasingly expensive & expansive homes? NOYB wrote: I think you don't have a clear understanding of the average Naples retiree's financial situation. Less expense isn't exactly a top priority to someone worth $10, 50 or 100 million. 1,400 properties sold in Collier County for more than $1 million from January through August of this year. What that tells me is that the people who are going to make money are the people who 1- sell those homes and collect commission (and the appraisers, insurers, etc etc) 2- bought into the market several years ago. Buying into a hot market because it's going up like a rocket is not generally how one makes a large profit. Not in the stock market, not in a crap game, and not in real estate. The fact that real estate has run up far faster than inflation over the past few years is a good indication that 1- inflation is going to pick up (after all housing costs are a big part of the consumer spending "basket") 2- it is *less* likely to outpace inflation over the coming years (nothing goes up & up & up forever & ever.. I currently put away $25,000+ per year in qualified pension plans...and have done so since 1999. That's a good move. Of course, it really depends on having a gov't that doesn't simply confiscate wealth from people who were wise enough to save up (ie a very different gov't from the one we have now). Water access is very difficult down here. If we had adequate ramps and marinas, I'd be living in a less expensive house inland. So, if boating is important to you, move to place where marinas are cheaper. The most important vote is cast with one's feet. Affordable areas in Florida don't exist anymore. But if by some miracle you happen to find one, the people living there have no money for dentistry...nor do most of them have teeth. That's not true. There are plenty of affordable homes in NE Florida, and far better medical practitioners than you are going to find in an area like yours with no major university hospital center. In fact, the best hospitals in Florida outside of Miami if you have a serious problem is in Gainesville, and Jacksonville is second on that list. I really don't know what the attraction is for south Florida on the west coast. More temperate winters Whiter beaches Prettier area Less retirees from the NY/NJ/New England area. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Maybe NOYB will open a B&B to make ends meet. Wonder if he'd throw in use of his boat? I wouldn't mind getting some Florida sun in January or February. There is a place in the upper to middle keys that does that. It's an ok older motel right on the water, with a good restaurant and the use of a whaler skiff and outboard is included. The beauty of the place is that the "offshore reef" is about a half-mile offshore, and that's as far as you have to go to catch some damned nice fish. I stayed there for a few days about five years ago. Nice beach, too. I lived down here for 4 1/2 years before I went to the Keys. I don't know what I was thinking. I finally "discovered" them this year, and have been there twice already since Memorial Day...and I'm going back in 3 weeks. I realized that if I want to head out to deep water to catch pelagics, it's cheaper and easier to put the boat on the trailer and drive 3 hours to the Keys with boat in tow. I can be in deep water off Islamorada in 3 1/2 hours...which is the same time it would take to run my 25' boat out 110 miles off Naples to reach the 100 fathom mark. And the fuel spent on the Keys trip is 1/5th what I'd spend running to the deep water over here. A better alternative yet, is running across the Alley and launching at Miami Haulover or Port Everglades. This area is great for snook, tarpon, grouper, jewfish, sharks, redfish, cobia, and snapper, but if you want pelagics (dolphin, tuna, billfish) you need to run across to the East coast or Keys. I have a friend who launches his Whaler out of Haulover. He lives just south of there, across the bridge, in Bal Harbour, one or two condos down from that bridge on the ocean side. When I'm down there, he lets me borrow the Whaler. You sure don't have to go far out of Haulover to catch some really nice fish. It's a sloppy inlet on an outgoing tide and an onshore wind, though. It's fun watching the inlet water wash up onto the little jetty on the north side and the retaining wall on the other side. I've seen a few slower boats get into trouble there. When I went through it, I was in my 17' Outrage. The boat ahead of me was a 25' Proline and took a wave right over the bow. I trimmed the bow way up, and jumped through a lull in the waves. Were you aware there is a nudist beach at the north end of the park there, or at least there was? Yes. While tying the boat down in the parking lot for the trip back to Naples, a couple of guys in G-string banana hammocks went strolling through the parking lot. Following them was a group teenage kids whistling at them and hootin' and hollerin'. Any curiosity that I may have had to walk across the street and take a look left me at that moment. Good place to buy and fly kites, too. If you go back to the area, ask someone for directions to the Little Havana Cuban restaurant, which is only a couple miles from there, a bit south, and across the causeway. Great authentic Cuban food, pretty reasonable. It's on Biscayne Boulevard. Good selection of beers, too. It's a family restaurant; always lots of Cuban families there with kids. We were in the front dining room one evening and got invited to join an anniversary party at the next table. I trailer the boat when I head over there...so stopping to park and eat is not an option. They have a big parking lot. It's not the size of the parking lot that worries me. I have $6k worth of electronics, tackle and gear in my boat when I travel over there. It's easier to grab something from Burger King while my brother sits in the car and guards the boat. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: They have a big parking lot. It's not the size of the parking lot that worries me. I have $6k worth of electronics, tackle and gear in my boat when I travel over there. It's easier to grab something from Burger King while my brother sits in the car and guards the boat. You're such a small-minded Republican. :?} I'm not into the involuntary redistribution of my fishing gear. |
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:47:01 GMT, Don White wrote:
NOYB wrote: "P Fritz" wrote in message ... "PocoLoco" wrote in message ... On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:35:48 -0400, DSK wrote: PocoLoco wrote: Not if he is enjoying the life he is living. Who are you to say what lifestyle NYOB would be 'better' enjoying? Can't read, can you? Did I say that one particular lifestyle is "better" than another? Why do you try to argue with things I didn't say, maybe because the facts are so consistantly against you? Answer- I said that NOBBY's financial future would be more secure. BTW living in debt and letting the rest of society pay for your extravagant choices is not a conservative lifestyle. NOBBY is certainly not the worst example, but he's far from being 'conservative' fiscally. And the part I disapprove of is only that he's gambling with his family's security and he appears to not understand the odds, nor the risk. DSK Well, gosh. Your disapproval probably means a whole lot. His 'lifestyle' includes living where he will. He is being the typical liebral.......sticking his nose in everybody else's business. How is "being in debt" forcing society to pay for his lifestyle? He thinks that the tax deduction that I get for the interest on my home mortgage is somehow subsidized by the government. Of course, he fails to realize that it's just my own money that I'm allowed to keep. That's the thing stateside. If you were like us...and not allowed to deduct any mortgage principal or interest from your income, you might think different. If we were like you, we'd all be named 'Harry'! -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:19:17 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "DSK" wrote in message ... You think retirees with less income than they had when working, who are looking for less expense, less driving, and closer care, are going to buy increasingly expensive & expansive homes? NOYB wrote: I think you don't have a clear understanding of the average Naples retiree's financial situation. Less expense isn't exactly a top priority to someone worth $10, 50 or 100 million. 1,400 properties sold in Collier County for more than $1 million from January through August of this year. What that tells me is that the people who are going to make money are the people who 1- sell those homes and collect commission (and the appraisers, insurers, etc etc) 2- bought into the market several years ago. Buying into a hot market because it's going up like a rocket is not generally how one makes a large profit. Not in the stock market, not in a crap game, and not in real estate. The fact that real estate has run up far faster than inflation over the past few years is a good indication that 1- inflation is going to pick up (after all housing costs are a big part of the consumer spending "basket") 2- it is *less* likely to outpace inflation over the coming years (nothing goes up & up & up forever & ever.. I currently put away $25,000+ per year in qualified pension plans...and have done so since 1999. That's a good move. Of course, it really depends on having a gov't that doesn't simply confiscate wealth from people who were wise enough to save up (ie a very different gov't from the one we have now). Water access is very difficult down here. If we had adequate ramps and marinas, I'd be living in a less expensive house inland. So, if boating is important to you, move to place where marinas are cheaper. The most important vote is cast with one's feet. Affordable areas in Florida don't exist anymore. But if by some miracle you happen to find one, the people living there have no money for dentistry...nor do most of them have teeth. That's not true. There are plenty of affordable homes in NE Florida, and far better medical practitioners than you are going to find in an area like yours with no major university hospital center. In fact, the best hospitals in Florida outside of Miami if you have a serious problem is in Gainesville, and Jacksonville is second on that list. I really don't know what the attraction is for south Florida on the west coast. More temperate winters Whiter beaches Prettier area Less retirees from the NY/NJ/New England area. Smaller probability of running into Harry Krause! -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"PocoLoco" wrote in message ... On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:19:17 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "DSK" wrote in message ... You think retirees with less income than they had when working, who are looking for less expense, less driving, and closer care, are going to buy increasingly expensive & expansive homes? NOYB wrote: I think you don't have a clear understanding of the average Naples retiree's financial situation. Less expense isn't exactly a top priority to someone worth $10, 50 or 100 million. 1,400 properties sold in Collier County for more than $1 million from January through August of this year. What that tells me is that the people who are going to make money are the people who 1- sell those homes and collect commission (and the appraisers, insurers, etc etc) 2- bought into the market several years ago. Buying into a hot market because it's going up like a rocket is not generally how one makes a large profit. Not in the stock market, not in a crap game, and not in real estate. The fact that real estate has run up far faster than inflation over the past few years is a good indication that 1- inflation is going to pick up (after all housing costs are a big part of the consumer spending "basket") 2- it is *less* likely to outpace inflation over the coming years (nothing goes up & up & up forever & ever.. I currently put away $25,000+ per year in qualified pension plans...and have done so since 1999. That's a good move. Of course, it really depends on having a gov't that doesn't simply confiscate wealth from people who were wise enough to save up (ie a very different gov't from the one we have now). Water access is very difficult down here. If we had adequate ramps and marinas, I'd be living in a less expensive house inland. So, if boating is important to you, move to place where marinas are cheaper. The most important vote is cast with one's feet. Affordable areas in Florida don't exist anymore. But if by some miracle you happen to find one, the people living there have no money for dentistry...nor do most of them have teeth. That's not true. There are plenty of affordable homes in NE Florida, and far better medical practitioners than you are going to find in an area like yours with no major university hospital center. In fact, the best hospitals in Florida outside of Miami if you have a serious problem is in Gainesville, and Jacksonville is second on that list. I really don't know what the attraction is for south Florida on the west coast. More temperate winters Whiter beaches Prettier area Less retirees from the NY/NJ/New England area. Smaller probability of running into Harry Krause! Yes, of course. And his ilk. |
"PocoLoco" wrote in message ... On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:47:01 GMT, Don White wrote: NOYB wrote: "P Fritz" wrote in message ... "PocoLoco" wrote in message ... On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:35:48 -0400, DSK wrote: PocoLoco wrote: Not if he is enjoying the life he is living. Who are you to say what lifestyle NYOB would be 'better' enjoying? Can't read, can you? Did I say that one particular lifestyle is "better" than another? Why do you try to argue with things I didn't say, maybe because the facts are so consistantly against you? Answer- I said that NOBBY's financial future would be more secure. BTW living in debt and letting the rest of society pay for your extravagant choices is not a conservative lifestyle. NOBBY is certainly not the worst example, but he's far from being 'conservative' fiscally. And the part I disapprove of is only that he's gambling with his family's security and he appears to not understand the odds, nor the risk. DSK Well, gosh. Your disapproval probably means a whole lot. His 'lifestyle' includes living where he will. He is being the typical liebral.......sticking his nose in everybody else's business. How is "being in debt" forcing society to pay for his lifestyle? He thinks that the tax deduction that I get for the interest on my home mortgage is somehow subsidized by the government. Of course, he fails to realize that it's just my own money that I'm allowed to keep. That's the thing stateside. If you were like us...and not allowed to deduct any mortgage principal or interest from your income, you might think different. If we were like you, we'd all be named 'Harry'! Yes, and we would all be "stuck on stupid" like harry, kevin, don and crowd. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: Less retirees from the NY/NJ/New England area. Smaller probability of running into Harry Krause! Yes, of course. And his ilk. Well, then, when you and yours are wiped out by some rogue hurricane or tornado, I won't bother to send in a contribution, as none of my "ilk" would be involved. That's a shame. I'd still help you guys in a disaster. But that doesn't mean that I have to like you. |
"NOYB" wrote in message k.net... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: Less retirees from the NY/NJ/New England area. Smaller probability of running into Harry Krause! Yes, of course. And his ilk. Well, then, when you and yours are wiped out by some rogue hurricane or tornado, I won't bother to send in a contribution, as none of my "ilk" would be involved. That's a shame. I'd still help you guys in a disaster. But that doesn't mean that I have to like you. There wouldn't be much need for contributions, no doubt most would be covered by insurance, unlike the liebral types that think the guvmint is there to bail them out. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... An alternative: write a letter to George W. Bush at the White House and ask him to resign immediately for the good of the country and its people. Do you really think Rove would take the time to read him that letter? |
NYOB,
One of the problems with Harry and others with NPD is they actually believe he will read it and will resign. -- Starbuck .... Get your filthy hands off my dessert! "NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... An alternative: write a letter to George W. Bush at the White House and ask him to resign immediately for the good of the country and its people. Do you really think Rove would take the time to read him that letter? |
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:44:20 -0400, P Fritz wrote:
There wouldn't be much need for contributions, no doubt most would be covered by insurance, unlike the liebral types that think the guvmint is there to bail them out. Uh, would that be flood insurance? I believe that *is* a government bail out. |
NOYB wrote: "DSK" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: I've been on the fence on how to advise him. Part of me believes as you do: that $340k villa will drop in price once a correction knocks the speculators out of the market. But if I'm wrong, then where does he live? If he pays the $340k now, and then it drops, he can just stay in it until it goes back up again. Rent cheap and put money into a residential REIT I don't know anything about REIT's. Can you see 30-50% returns like we're currently seeing in the real estate market? And are they any safer than actually owning the real estate? You haven't seen any "return" until you sell. You have seen other people realize a return, and you believe, by extension, that you would be able to realize a return if you chose to sell. All of your equity is theoretical. Of course, if you do sell, the only ways you can actually extract any value are 1) forego home ownership and become a tenant, 2) reduce the "quality" of your lifestyle by moving to a smaller, older, home or one in a questionable neighborhood, 3)relocate to some hill town in the Ozarks or Sage Brush City Oklahoma. If you replace your house with another that is about the same or bigger, newer, and nicer in the same area you will plow all of your sales "proceeds" into the new house, and simply be deeper in debt than you are now. I recently had coffee with a guy who was excited about his house in Seattle. He began boasting about how the house for which he paid $250,000 in the early 90's is now worth about 4 times that amount. I said, "Well, congrats. But unless you sell, of course, you can't really spend any of that money." I had to bite my tongue when he answered, "Oh, yes, you can! I just took out a home equity loan for $700,000 and we're buying a new 45-footer and a Land Rover." Poor guy. He doesn't realize that he just "repurchased" that house (for which he initially paid $250,000) for the $700,000 he just borrowed against it. He actually did have to sell his house......he sold it to himself. A REIT spreads the risk across a spectrum of properties and geographic areas. While it doesn't put all its assets into an unsustainably booming market like Naples, the trust is also more insulated against the implosion of a single overheated housing bubble. Putting all your eggs into a single basket makes no more sense in R.E. than it does in the stock market or any other speculative enterprise. |
thunder wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:44:20 -0400, P Fritz wrote: There wouldn't be much need for contributions, no doubt most would be covered by insurance, unlike the liebral types that think the guvmint is there to bail them out. Uh, would that be flood insurance? I believe that *is* a government bail out. Ah..that Frizzle! A laugh a minute! |
Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans comes out tomorrow. There are a handful of well-to-do public figures who either failed to make the list, or have been displaced. Among the missing this year will be Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Bill Cosby, the casino owner Nielsen, and Teresa Heinz Kerry. I'm sure there's no truth to the rumor that some of these luminaries have been nudged into relative asset oblivion by owners of those cookie cutter McMansions scattered around the cul-de-sacs of suburban Naples. AFAIK, you need a net worth of at least a $billion to make the list, and achieving that would require the purchase of perhaps two houses in Naples and then waiting another 18-24 months. :-) |
wrote in message oups.com... Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans comes out tomorrow. There are a handful of well-to-do public figures who either failed to make the list, or have been displaced. Among the missing this year will be Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Bill Cosby, the casino owner Nielsen, and Teresa Heinz Kerry. I'm sure there's no truth to the rumor that some of these luminaries have been nudged into relative asset oblivion by owners of those cookie cutter McMansions scattered around the cul-de-sacs of suburban Naples. AFAIK, you need a net worth of at least a $billion to make the list, and achieving that would require the purchase of perhaps two houses in Naples and then waiting another 18-24 months. :-) Can someone pass me the popcorn? ;-) |
wrote in message oups.com... NOYB wrote: "DSK" wrote in message . .. NOYB wrote: I've been on the fence on how to advise him. Part of me believes as you do: that $340k villa will drop in price once a correction knocks the speculators out of the market. But if I'm wrong, then where does he live? If he pays the $340k now, and then it drops, he can just stay in it until it goes back up again. Rent cheap and put money into a residential REIT I don't know anything about REIT's. Can you see 30-50% returns like we're currently seeing in the real estate market? And are they any safer than actually owning the real estate? You haven't seen any "return" until you sell. You have seen other people realize a return, and you believe, by extension, that you would be able to realize a return if you chose to sell. All of your equity is theoretical. Of course, if you do sell, the only ways you can actually extract any value are 1) forego home ownership and become a tenant, 2) reduce the "quality" of your lifestyle by moving to a smaller, older, home or one in a questionable neighborhood, 3)relocate to some hill town in the Ozarks or Sage Brush City Oklahoma. If you replace your house with another that is about the same or bigger, newer, and nicer in the same area you will plow all of your sales "proceeds" into the new house, and simply be deeper in debt than you are now. I recently had coffee with a guy who was excited about his house in Seattle. He began boasting about how the house for which he paid $250,000 in the early 90's is now worth about 4 times that amount. I said, "Well, congrats. But unless you sell, of course, you can't really spend any of that money." I had to bite my tongue when he answered, "Oh, yes, you can! I just took out a home equity loan for $700,000 and we're buying a new 45-footer and a Land Rover." So he bought a million dollar house for $700k...and got a free 45' boat and a Land Rover to boot. You shouldn't be feeling sorry for him. Poor guy. He doesn't realize that he just "repurchased" that house (for which he initially paid $250,000) for the $700,000 he just borrowed against it. He actually did have to sell his house......he sold it to himself. So he bought a million dollar house for $700k...and got a free 45' boat and a Land Rover to boot. You shouldn't be feeling sorry for him. He got a helluva deal. A REIT spreads the risk across a spectrum of properties and geographic areas. While it doesn't put all its assets into an unsustainably booming market like Naples, the trust is also more insulated against the implosion of a single overheated housing bubble. Putting all your eggs into a single basket makes no more sense in R.E. than it does in the stock market or any other speculative enterprise. Please send me some info on REIT's that you've looked at or invested in. I'd like to explore them as an option for further diversification of my portfolio. |
wrote in message oups.com... Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans comes out tomorrow. There are a handful of well-to-do public figures who either failed to make the list, or have been displaced. Among the missing this year will be Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Bill Cosby, the casino owner Nielsen, and Teresa Heinz Kerry. I'm sure there's no truth to the rumor that some of these luminaries have been nudged into relative asset oblivion by owners of those cookie cutter McMansions scattered around the cul-de-sacs of suburban Naples. AFAIK, you need a net worth of at least a $billion to make the list, and achieving that would require the purchase of perhaps two houses in Naples and then waiting another 18-24 months. :-) I wonder how many of them will be attending the Naples Wine Fest on the next go-around: Naples Winter Wine Festival: Published Articles How Naples, Florida, Bested Napa, California, At Its Wine Game By JULIA FLYNN Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL June 24, 2005; Page A1 NAPA, Calif. -- The Napa Valley Wine Auction, where a six-liter bottle of cabernet sauvignon once sold for a half-million dollars, was the grande dame of charity wine auctions for nearly a quarter century. Founded in 1981, it drew moneyed oenophiles, celebrity chefs and Hollywood stars to this wine region for a long weekend each June. But Napa's great success inspired others to get into the same game. And last year, the three-year-old Naples Winter Wine Festival trumpeted itself as "the world's top charity wine event" after it said it raised $7.67 million for a long list of charities. Napa said it had raised only $5.3 million. Naples, the one in Florida, is a city built partly on reclaimed swamp, and it isn't known for viticulture. Nor, indeed, is Florida. Napa's pride was dented. Vowing a comeback, the Napa Valley Vintners, the powerful group of winery owners behind the Napa auction, did some soul-searching. Among their conclusions: Napa's auction had grown too big and too boring, and it sometimes didn't treat billionaires as well as it might have. The organizers did a radical makeover, tripling ticket prices to make the auction more exclusive and hiring Jay Leno as an opener. Naples "really put the bug in our ear," says Margrit Biever Mondavi, one of the 24 co-chairpersons of Napa's event and a member of the Mondavi wine family. Jay Leno sells a custom-made cork jacket worn by Robert Mondavi at this year's Auction Napa Valley. One evening earlier this month, under a tent on a golf fairway, Napa opened the auction meant to take back its rightful role as the pre-eminent charity wine auction in America. The auction got off to a promising start: A surprise first item, a dinner jacket made of wine corks, far exceeded expectations by selling for $95,000. Other strong bidding followed. "This is a performer's dream," said Mr. Leno as the auction got rolling: "Rich people who've been drinking." Recapturing the crown was key for the Napa Valley Vintners, who had used their auction's high profile to market Napa as a wine lover's Eden. It had long been a prestigious social event, drawing international media attention and regulars like former baseball star Rusty Staub and "Sex and the City" actor Kyle MacLachlan. People paid $2,500 a couple to attend. By 2001, there were hundreds of other charity wine auctions in the U.S. None came close to Napa's. And no one in Napa felt threatened when a group of oenophiles announced they would start an auction in Naples. But Naples organizers, a well-connected group of eighteen couples, aimed to get big. The year before, they had gathered intelligence at Napa's 2000 auction, taking notes and quietly chatting with attendees. The Naples crew spotted weaknesses. Napa had swelled to about 2,500 guests, making it noisy and less elite. Big bidders wanted to consort with vintners and winemakers, not the marketing staff they tripped over in Napa. So Naples kept attendance to a few hundred, charging $5,000 a couple, twice what Napa charged. It kept pre-auction "hospitality" events, in which bidders mingle with vintners, much smaller than Napa's. Naples faced one hurdle: Naples itself, located on the Gulf of Mexico in Southwest Florida. "Obviously, Naples is not Napa," says Jeff Gargiulo, a Naples founder. "You won't see any grapes growing around here." The group at first had trouble persuading top vintners and celebrity chefs to attend. So they lined up private jets to fly in some attendees. They lured a few big-name vintners to help draw others. A big catch was Dick Grace, a Napa cult-wine producer. "When we brought Dick Grace here, we got instant credibility," says Mr. Gargiulo, a Napa vintner, who hails from Naples and is the chief executive officer of Sunkist Growers Inc. Naples's first auction, in 2001, raised $2.7 million, according to its figures. That wasn't enough to concern Napa vintners, some of whom attended the Florida event. Nor was the $3.4 million that Naples said it raised in 2002; Napa said it raised $6.1 million that year. "I'd never even heard of Naples, Fla.," says vintner Stu Smith, a co-chairperson of the recent Napa auction. But Napa couldn't ignore Naples after February 2003. Naples's third auction, promoters said, raised $5.1 million, close to Napa's previous reported take. Four months later, the Napa auction reportedly raised $6.4 million, and Napa's bidders and vintners aired some gripes in a survey following the auction. The two events account differently for their total takes. Napa says its total doesn't include ticket sales, which help underwrite the event. The Naples organizers say they included ticket sales in some years and that many of the costs are underwritten by trustees and sponsors. The competing auctions have accepted each other's official numbers. Napa officials say they are aware of the accounting difference but don't challenge Naples's claims. The Napa vintners decided to revamp the auction, appointing 24 chairpeople so no one would be singled out should the effort flop. Some of those who had attended Naples's 2004 auction made comparisons. Naples's auction was briefer. It treated its 600 guests to elegant soirees at founders' homes, while Napa's 2,000 guests faced a noisy and impersonal ball under a tent. Napa's auction "was just getting too long, and there were too many people," says Ms. Biever Mondavi. And Naples did more to pamper its guests. Naples put vintners up at the local Ritz Carlton; Napa's guests were on their own for lodging. Naples moved attendees between venues in stretch limousines; Napa used buses. Naples greeted dignitaries at the airport with cheerleaders and a marching band. On a corporate-jet ride back to California, the Napa group decided that they would push for change. It wasn't in time to keep the crown: According to its numbers, Napa's 2004 event raised $5.3 million, versus the $7.6 million Naples said it had raised in February. Napa spent the next months revamping. It tossed the crowded ball in favor of Naples-inspired intimate parties. It cut the live auction to four hours, from six, and hired chauffeured cars for big bidders. It raised admission to $7,500 a couple and changed the name of the event to Auction Napa Valley. To add buzz, Napa hired Mr. Leno and brought together Peter and Robert Mondavi, the nonagenarian brothers famed for the feud that estranged them after Robert punched Peter in 1965. "We've learned some things from Naples," says Barbara Shafer, a co-chairperson of the Napa event. Her family owns Shafer Vineyards, a prestigious winery in Napa Valley. Still, ticket sales were sluggish, forcing Napa to cancel some events. Calling the high price "a dumb idea," co-chair Mr. Smith and others prepared for a rout. But auction day dawned brighter. The pampering had paid off in pre-auction events. "The more important bidders were recognized rather than being buried in the crowd," says billionaire vintner Jess Jackson, the founder of Kendall-Jackson, who attended both the Naples and Napa auctions in 2005. Mid-auction, Napa looked to have a chance. The number to beat was $11.1 million, Naples's reported February take before ticket sales, and most lots were selling for more than expected. A barrel from the formerly feuding Mondavis fetched $401,000. ("Hang on," Mr. Leno wisecracked: "The brothers have started punching each other again!") A lot featuring a bit part on "Desperate Housewives" sold twice, for a total of $580,000. When the last gavel fell, cannons shot confetti over the crowd. The next day came Napa's final tally: $10.5 million. Naples had kept the crown by a $600,000 margin. Linda Reiff, executive director of the Napa group, says Napa won't dispute Naples's claim to the crown because "it's not worth it for us to get into a back-and-forth." |
"NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... "PocoLoco" wrote in message ... On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:19:17 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "DSK" wrote in message ... You think retirees with less income than they had when working, who are looking for less expense, less driving, and closer care, are going to buy increasingly expensive & expansive homes? NOYB wrote: I think you don't have a clear understanding of the average Naples retiree's financial situation. Less expense isn't exactly a top priority to someone worth $10, 50 or 100 million. 1,400 properties sold in Collier County for more than $1 million from January through August of this year. What that tells me is that the people who are going to make money are the people who 1- sell those homes and collect commission (and the appraisers, insurers, etc etc) 2- bought into the market several years ago. Buying into a hot market because it's going up like a rocket is not generally how one makes a large profit. Not in the stock market, not in a crap game, and not in real estate. The fact that real estate has run up far faster than inflation over the past few years is a good indication that 1- inflation is going to pick up (after all housing costs are a big part of the consumer spending "basket") 2- it is *less* likely to outpace inflation over the coming years (nothing goes up & up & up forever & ever.. I currently put away $25,000+ per year in qualified pension plans...and have done so since 1999. That's a good move. Of course, it really depends on having a gov't that doesn't simply confiscate wealth from people who were wise enough to save up (ie a very different gov't from the one we have now). Water access is very difficult down here. If we had adequate ramps and marinas, I'd be living in a less expensive house inland. So, if boating is important to you, move to place where marinas are cheaper. The most important vote is cast with one's feet. Affordable areas in Florida don't exist anymore. But if by some miracle you happen to find one, the people living there have no money for dentistry...nor do most of them have teeth. That's not true. There are plenty of affordable homes in NE Florida, and far better medical practitioners than you are going to find in an area like yours with no major university hospital center. In fact, the best hospitals in Florida outside of Miami if you have a serious problem is in Gainesville, and Jacksonville is second on that list. I really don't know what the attraction is for south Florida on the west coast. More temperate winters Whiter beaches Prettier area Less retirees from the NY/NJ/New England area. Smaller probability of running into Harry Krause! Yes, of course. And his ilk. Hey NYOB....this make your return like small potatos. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9398215/ |
P Fritz wrote:
Hey NOBBY....this make your return like small potatos. Harry Krause wrote: IS Fritz related to Tuuuuuck? About the same command of English. Not only that, he spelled "potatoes" wrong DSK |
Gould,
There seems to be a touch of jealousy in your tone. -- Starbuck .... Design before coding, and all will flow smoothly wrote in message oups.com... Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans comes out tomorrow. There are a handful of well-to-do public figures who either failed to make the list, or have been displaced. Among the missing this year will be Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Bill Cosby, the casino owner Nielsen, and Teresa Heinz Kerry. I'm sure there's no truth to the rumor that some of these luminaries have been nudged into relative asset oblivion by owners of those cookie cutter McMansions scattered around the cul-de-sacs of suburban Naples. AFAIK, you need a net worth of at least a $billion to make the list, and achieving that would require the purchase of perhaps two houses in Naples and then waiting another 18-24 months. :-) |
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So, if boating is important to you, move to place where marinas are cheaper.
The cheapest marina of all is a dock in front of your house. You control the cost, and also get to enjoy an appreciating asset. |
"DSK" wrote in message ... So, if boating is important to you, move to place where marinas are cheaper. wrote: The cheapest marina of all is a dock in front of your house. You control the cost, and also get to enjoy an appreciating asset. Not really. I bet it feels good though. Nobby said he's paying $5K a month on an interest-only mortgage.... my slip doesn't cost that much in two years. My slip plus my mortgage aren't half what his cost. My wife and I sporadically look at waterfront property, but the premium is too high most places that are actually desirable. When the bubble bursts, maybe we'll buy in... but not in Florida, for sure. Been there, done that. A place on the water that has an existing dock is an asset and it will only appreciate in value over time. Have you looked into the cost of getting a new dock built lately. |
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:06:17 -0400, DSK wrote:
So, if boating is important to you, move to place where marinas are cheaper. wrote: The cheapest marina of all is a dock in front of your house. You control the cost, and also get to enjoy an appreciating asset. Not really. I bet it feels good though. Nobby said he's paying $5K a month on an interest-only mortgage.... my slip doesn't cost that much in two years. My slip plus my mortgage aren't half what his cost. My wife and I sporadically look at waterfront property, but the premium is too high most places that are actually desirable. When the bubble bursts, maybe we'll buy in... but not in Florida, for sure. Been there, done that. DSK What does a 45 foot trailer rent for these days? -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
wrote in message ... On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:20:15 -0400, "Bert Robbins" wrote: A place on the water that has an existing dock is an asset and it will only appreciate in value over time. Have you looked into the cost of getting a new dock built lately It isn't just money. Permitting can be almost impossible if anyone saw anything that looked remotely like a manatee within a couple miles of your dock. Lee County may still be underr a total moritorium. They say they lifted it but I am not sure any permits have actually ground their way through the goverrnment maze. Bingo! It isn't just So. Fla. that has this problem. You buy a place on the water with the hope of building a dock and then find out that you can't get through the permitting process becasue there are local, state and federal hoops that you have to jump through! So, if you want a dock then buy a piece of property that has a dock and fix it up! |
"DSK" wrote in message ... So, if boating is important to you, move to place where marinas are cheaper. wrote: The cheapest marina of all is a dock in front of your house. You control the cost, and also get to enjoy an appreciating asset. Not really. I bet it feels good though. Nobby said he's paying $5K a month on an interest-only mortgage.... Actually, I'm paying $3835 on the interest only mortgage..and another $1/mo. on property taxes and insurance. my slip doesn't cost that much in two years. Any in-water slip down here will run you $400-500/mo...or a lot more depending upon size. My slip plus my mortgage aren't half what his cost. Great. But how long have you been in your home? My wife and I sporadically look at waterfront property, but the premium is too high most places that are actually desirable. When the bubble bursts, maybe we'll buy in... but not in Florida, for sure. Been there, done that. The demand for wterfront down here so far exceeds supply, that they'll never be a "good buy" for waterfront property in Southwest Florida, no matter what the national real estate "bubble" does. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... DSK wrote: So, if boating is important to you, move to place where marinas are cheaper. wrote: The cheapest marina of all is a dock in front of your house. You control the cost, and also get to enjoy an appreciating asset. Not really. I bet it feels good though. Nobby said he's paying $5K a month on an interest-only mortgage.... my slip doesn't cost that much in two years. My slip plus my mortgage aren't half what his cost. My wife and I sporadically look at waterfront property, but the premium is too high most places that are actually desirable. When the bubble bursts, maybe we'll buy in... but not in Florida, for sure. Been there, done that. DSK The marina near me charges $450 for trailer boat storage and ramp usage, and anywhere from %1500 to about $2200 a year for a slip, depending on the size. The marina near me closed. The marina down the road from me closed. The marinas north of me are full. The boat ramps are full by 8:00am on weekends. If you're a boater down here, you're willing to spend a lot more for the luxury of having your boat in the backyard. |
"NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... DSK wrote: So, if boating is important to you, move to place where marinas are cheaper. wrote: The cheapest marina of all is a dock in front of your house. You control the cost, and also get to enjoy an appreciating asset. Not really. I bet it feels good though. Nobby said he's paying $5K a month on an interest-only mortgage.... my slip doesn't cost that much in two years. My slip plus my mortgage aren't half what his cost. My wife and I sporadically look at waterfront property, but the premium is too high most places that are actually desirable. When the bubble bursts, maybe we'll buy in... but not in Florida, for sure. Been there, done that. DSK The marina near me charges $450 for trailer boat storage and ramp usage, and anywhere from %1500 to about $2200 a year for a slip, depending on the size. The marina near me closed. The marina down the road from me closed. The marinas north of me are full. The boat ramps are full by 8:00am on weekends. If you're a boater down here, you're willing to spend a lot more for the luxury of having your boat in the backyard. Besides the fact that the net cost of the 5k a month is only 3k a month........something the brain dead liebrals cannot comprehend. |
Pee Spritz launched his fall-back insult once again with: Besides the fact that the net cost of the 5k a month is only 3k a month........something the brain dead liebrals cannot comprehend. The liberals clearly understand that our tax system subsidizes the housing expenses of the wealthy, with the greatest subsidy going to the wealthiest portions of society living in the most expensive housing. Relieved of the burden of earning enough money to pay for their entire housing expense, (like middle and lower class renters must do), a good portion of the privileged class then has enough time to agitate against public funding of any programs that might provide or upgrade housing available to the poorest and most desperate. One has to have certain priorities, after all. |
wrote in message oups.com... Pee Spritz launched his fall-back insult once again with: Besides the fact that the net cost of the 5k a month is only 3k a month........something the brain dead liebrals cannot comprehend. The liberals clearly understand that our tax system subsidizes the housing expenses of the wealthy, with the greatest subsidy going to the wealthiest portions of society living in the most expensive housing. So have you sent your mortgage interest tax deduction back to Washington so they can spend it on the poor? |
"NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... wrote in message oups.com... Pee Spritz launched his fall-back insult once again with: Besides the fact that the net cost of the 5k a month is only 3k a month........something the brain dead liebrals cannot comprehend. The liberals clearly understand that our tax system subsidizes the housing expenses of the wealthy, with the greatest subsidy going to the wealthiest portions of society living in the most expensive housing. So have you sent your mortgage interest tax deduction back to Washington so they can spend it on the poor? Indeed. Or donated it directly to a charity. ;-) |
"*JimH*" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... wrote in message oups.com... Pee Spritz launched his fall-back insult once again with: Besides the fact that the net cost of the 5k a month is only 3k a month........something the brain dead liebrals cannot comprehend. The liberals clearly understand that our tax system subsidizes the housing expenses of the wealthy, with the greatest subsidy going to the wealthiest portions of society living in the most expensive housing. So have you sent your mortgage interest tax deduction back to Washington so they can spend it on the poor? Indeed. Or donated it directly to a charity. ;-) Naw. Donating to charities is the Republican way. Democrats think that the government can better handle the needs of the poor (which means they obviously weren't paying attention to the level of poverty most of New Orleans had sunk to even prior to Katrina). |
wrote in message oups.com... Pee Spritz launched his fall-back insult once again with: Besides the fact that the net cost of the 5k a month is only 3k a month........something the brain dead liebrals cannot comprehend. The liberals clearly understand that our tax system subsidizes the housing expenses of the wealthy, with the greatest subsidy going to the wealthiest portions of society living in the most expensive housing. And, the not so wealthy too. Relieved of the burden of earning enough money to pay for their entire housing expense, (like middle and lower class renters must do), a good portion of the privileged class then has enough time to agitate against public funding of any programs that might provide or upgrade housing available to the poorest and most desperate. One has to have certain priorities, after all. Bull, the lower and middle "income" people do find suitable housing. They might not be living in or what the dream of but they are taking steps to get there. |
"NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... wrote in message oups.com... Pee Spritz launched his fall-back insult once again with: Besides the fact that the net cost of the 5k a month is only 3k a month........something the brain dead liebrals cannot comprehend. The liberals clearly understand that our tax system subsidizes the housing expenses of the wealthy, with the greatest subsidy going to the wealthiest portions of society living in the most expensive housing. So have you sent your mortgage interest tax deduction back to Washington so they can spend it on the poor? Liebrals love to use the term "subsidize" whne talking about people being able to keep their own money. ONe of the many reasons they are liebrals. |
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message . .. wrote in message oups.com... Pee Spritz launched his fall-back insult once again with: Besides the fact that the net cost of the 5k a month is only 3k a month........something the brain dead liebrals cannot comprehend. The liberals clearly understand that our tax system subsidizes the housing expenses of the wealthy, with the greatest subsidy going to the wealthiest portions of society living in the most expensive housing. And, the not so wealthy too. Relieved of the burden of earning enough money to pay for their entire housing expense, (like middle and lower class renters must do), a good portion of the privileged class then has enough time to agitate against public funding of any programs that might provide or upgrade housing available to the poorest and most desperate. One has to have certain priorities, after all. Bull, the lower and middle "income" people do find suitable housing. They might not be living in or what the dream of but they are taking steps to get there. Chuckie is spewing the typical brain dead liebral class warfare crap. The vast majority of people do not stay in one income bracket throughout their lives. |
Chuckie is spewing the typical brain dead liebral class warfare crap. The vast majority of people do not stay in one income bracket throughout their lives. Sounds a bit like "let them eat cake." You are right about that. The middle class is going the way of the passenger pigeon. Yes, yes, a few of the former middle class are moving into the ranks of the privileged-(something to cheer about in the right wing) but most of the people leaving the middle class are worse off now than they were a decade ago. Watch what happens when the RE bubble bursts. All those folks with what they think is a huge asset (suburban McMansion) and almost no net worth (refinanced 2,3,4 times to sustain consumer spending in an environment where housing costs are soaring and wages are essentially flat). You think we've got po' folk now? Just wait. You guys know darn well what's on the horizon, and the recent changes making it almost impossible to declare a personal bankruptcy are an indicator. Some of these people will be working the rest of their lives to pay off the debt on a soon to be repossesed house Sure, the reasoning advanced is often "When prices go down, we just won't sell. We'll wait a few years for them to come back up." Some people will have that luxury. Others will be forced to sell do to a medical emergency, job loss (or transfer), or other unforeseen event. When they put these heavily refi'd houses on the market and discover nobody is willing to pay enough to break them out of their indebtedness, there will be more examples of "people not remaining in a single economic class for an entire lifetime." Those houses dumped by the portion of the population "forced to sell" will further erode the fantasy wealth of people who believe they can hold as well as consume the same asset. Add a 1, or even a 2,3,or 4 on the left hand side of every house price in America. Nobody would be one cent better off if they are compelled to live in one of those houses. |
wrote in message oups.com... Chuckie is spewing the typical brain dead liebral class warfare crap. The vast majority of people do not stay in one income bracket throughout their lives. Sounds a bit like "let them eat cake." No, it sounds like let's teach them to bake their own cake so that they can feed themselves. You are right about that. The middle class is going the way of the passenger pigeon. Yes, yes, a few of the former middle class are moving into the ranks of the privileged-(something to cheer about in the right wing) but most of the people leaving the middle class are worse off now than they were a decade ago. Then we need to do more to teach them how to work hard and earn more money so that they can move up the ladder rather than sliding down the ladder under the weight of good intentions. Watch what happens when the RE bubble bursts. All those folks with what they think is a huge asset (suburban McMansion) and almost no net worth (refinanced 2,3,4 times to sustain consumer spending in an environment where housing costs are soaring and wages are essentially flat). You think we've got po' folk now? Just wait. When the "RE bubble bursts" it will be a great oppourtunity to buy so that you can take advantage of the next bubble. Cycles, they keep repeating themselves. You have to make the money you have work harder for you. The lower my mortgage the more I can put into an 401K, Roth IRA, IRA or whatever else you choose to use as an investment vehicle. You guys know darn well what's on the horizon, and the recent changes making it almost impossible to declare a personal bankruptcy are an indicator. Some of these people will be working the rest of their lives to pay off the debt on a soon to be repossesed house Every time the darkness comes there will be sunlight next. The economic cycle is like that of the nights and days we experience. Sure, the reasoning advanced is often "When prices go down, we just won't sell. We'll wait a few years for them to come back up." Some people will have that luxury. Others will be forced to sell do to a medical emergency, job loss (or transfer), or other unforeseen event. When they put these heavily refi'd houses on the market and discover nobody is willing to pay enough to break them out of their indebtedness, there will be more examples of "people not remaining in a single economic class for an entire lifetime." How may times have you been laid off during your working career? I have been laid off four or five times and each time I have been able to find another job that paid me the same or more. There are winners and loosers in life and you have to work to be a winner, you can't sit around waiting for someone to give you the blue ribbon. Those houses dumped by the portion of the population "forced to sell" will further erode the fantasy wealth of people who believe they can hold as well as consume the same asset. It is an oppourtunity? Add a 1, or even a 2,3,or 4 on the left hand side of every house price in America. Nobody would be one cent better off if they are compelled to live in one of those houses. Corrections and adjustments are a part of economic life, live with it or move to Cuba. In Cuba you won't own anything so you don't have to worry about the price of houses. |
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