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I read through the thread that started with this post with great interest as I am a newbie dealing with the same issue. I assumed my problem was one of incorrect technique (or more correctly, lack of technique). I'm looking for pointers to books/DVD's/videos - anything that will help a beginner develop the proper paddling techniques. Flat water is what I'm interested in primarily. I've looked at some sites offering instructional materials, but it's difficult for me to tell from the descriptions whether they would help me with the basics of paddling or not. I appreciate any advice/pointers. Thanks, Cheryl Lyons, TX Argo wrote: Has anyone ever retro-fitted a rudder to a plastic kayak? I've been plotting how that might be done with the small, plastic kayak I got on points. It doesn't track at all (which makes it great in a tight slalom run, but gives my girlfriend fits when she's trying to paddle across flat water). I'm not worried about the aesthetics of wires running along the top of the kayak, if that would make it simpler. Is it possible? Is it a LOT of work? Argo http://greenrealm.blogspot.com |
"Cheryl Cato" wrote in message ... I read through the thread that started with this post with great interest as I am a newbie dealing with the same issue. I assumed my problem was one of incorrect technique (or more correctly, lack of technique). I'm looking for pointers to books/DVD's/videos - anything that will help a beginner develop the proper paddling techniques. Flat water is what I'm interested in primarily. I've looked at some sites offering instructional materials, but it's difficult for me to tell from the descriptions whether they would help me with the basics of paddling or not. I appreciate any advice/pointers. Thanks, Cheryl Lyons, TX Hey Cheryl, what is it that happens that makes you think there is something wrong with your technique? Cheers Argo wrote: Has anyone ever retro-fitted a rudder to a plastic kayak? I've been plotting how that might be done with the small, plastic kayak I got on points. It doesn't track at all (which makes it great in a tight slalom run, but gives my girlfriend fits when she's trying to paddle across flat water). I'm not worried about the aesthetics of wires running along the top of the kayak, if that would make it simpler. Is it possible? Is it a LOT of work? Argo http://greenrealm.blogspot.com |
add a rudder to a kayak?
....stuff deleted
I spend a lot of time lurking on cycling NGs. This is probably kayaking's answer to the "helmet wars" of rec.bicycling.misc Too true (having read the same sh-- er -- crap as you. I would like to add that I am not fond of rudders. My experiences are that they do all of the following: - add weight to the boat - cause minor (but painful) injuries when the cables fray - fail at inconvenient times (or lock up) - add maintenence chores to the boat that I'd rather not do - generally (depending upon hull design) add as much resistance as benefit to paddling There are times, however, when a rudder is necessary. I've paddled long doubles that could only be managed with a rudder. I've also been in certain boats and conditions where a rudder was a nice luxury to have. My personal opinion is that if you find a boat you can paddle comfortably without a rudder, than you are better off avoiding the additional complexity and expense they add to paddling. If you find a boat that requires a rudder to be manageable, they by all means, buy and use the rudder. I will continue to use rudderless boats. The times I've paddled with a rudder, I tended to become lazy and allow my skills to degrade. I also found the experience to be similar to driving with that atrocity known as either an automatic transmission or planned obsolescence, take your pick (note that I am not rational on that particular subject, so you can question my rationale on this one, too). Rick |
add a rudder to a kayak?
"Rick" wrote in message
2... ...stuff deleted I spend a lot of time lurking on cycling NGs. This is probably kayaking's answer to the "helmet wars" of rec.bicycling.misc Too true (having read the same sh-- er -- crap as you. I would like to add that I am not fond of rudders. My experiences are that they do all of the following: - add weight to the boat - cause minor (but painful) injuries when the cables fray - fail at inconvenient times (or lock up) - add maintenence chores to the boat that I'd rather not do - generally (depending upon hull design) add as much resistance as benefit to paddling There are times, however, when a rudder is necessary. I've paddled long doubles that could only be managed with a rudder. I've also been in certain boats and conditions where a rudder was a nice luxury to have. My personal opinion is that if you find a boat you can paddle comfortably without a rudder, than you are better off avoiding the additional complexity and expense they add to paddling. If you find a boat that requires a rudder to be manageable, they by all means, buy and use the rudder. I will continue to use rudderless boats. The times I've paddled with a rudder, I tended to become lazy and allow my skills to degrade. I also found the experience to be similar to driving with that atrocity known as either an automatic transmission or planned obsolescence, take your pick (note that I am not rational on that particular subject, so you can question my rationale on this one, too). Rick - - - on the other hand, a rudder allows you to paddle in particularily adverse conditions without having to constantly paddle steer or edge the boat. And an autobox has considerable attraction when driving in traffic and a decent autobox that you can choose to over-ride and use like a manual (Audi for example) offers the best of both worlds. Rob |
add a rudder to a kayak?
....stuff deleted
- - - on the other hand, a rudder allows you to paddle in particularily adverse conditions without having to constantly paddle steer or edge the boat. And an autobox has considerable attraction when driving in traffic and a decent autobox that you can choose to over-ride and use like a manual (Audi for example) offers the best of both worlds. Rob I have paddled in full storm 50+ mph winds, waves chopped off from those winds, w/o a rudder. That said, I had a boat that performed reasonably well w/o a rudder. Yes, I made correcting strokes, braces, etc. All I was saying was that rudders have their place, they just don't have a place on my boat. Others have different opinions, and I'm fine with that. I am still very concerned about rudders as a source of maintenance and failure. If you didn't develop the skills and a rudder jams, cable breaks, gear shifts so that the cable fouls, or whatever, you are in deep kim chee. Like the aforementioned automatic transmissions, they are less reliable than the low tech solution. I will never buy an automatic transmisson again - not from any manufacturer. At best, they make driving dull. At worst, they dictate when shifting should occur (even when it is unsafe), are slow to respond to demands for power, and they waste fuel. Added to this is the fact that they are less reliable than a standard. I hate them with a passion usually reserved for mass murderers. That most people buy them is, IMO, certain proof of their mediocrity. Those who have them use the same argument, "they are much easier to use in traffic." I can show anyone with an automatic how to manage their driving so that the standard is at least as easy to manage in stop/go conditions or on hills. Most folks are too lazy to learn and would rather place calls on their cell phones than pay attention to their driving. VW (who now owns Porsche/Audi, by the way) put a tranny like that on their old bug. It was awful. I only hope they've done a better job on this one. Rick |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On 1-Dec-2005, "Rick Donnelly" wrote: I have paddled in full storm 50+ mph winds, waves chopped off from those winds, w/o a rudder. That said, I had a boat that performed reasonably well w/o a rudder. Under those conditions, a rudder can work poorly. If you are on short wavelength waves, the rudder can spend a lot of time out of the water. I've watched ruddered kayaks zigzag under those conditions while I tracked straight in a non-ruddered kayak. I will never buy an automatic transmisson again - not from any manufacturer. At best, they make driving dull. At worst, they dictate when shifting should occur (even when it is unsafe), are slow to respond to demands for power, and they waste fuel. I'd almost agree, but CVTs, now available on hybrids and some other vehicles (like the Freestar) can be a significant improvement over conventional automatics and provide better fuel economy. I'll give up my standard for a good CVT... someday. Mike |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , Michael Daly at wrote on 12/1/05 5:08 PM: On 1-Dec-2005, "Rick Donnelly" wrote: I have paddled in full storm 50+ mph winds, waves chopped off from those winds, w/o a rudder. That said, I had a boat that performed reasonably well w/o a rudder. Under those conditions, a rudder can work poorly. If you are on short wavelength waves, the rudder can spend a lot of time out of the water. I've watched ruddered kayaks zigzag under those conditions while I tracked straight in a non-ruddered kayak. Quite right... I will never buy an automatic transmisson again - not from any manufacturer. At best, they make driving dull. At worst, they dictate when shifting should occur (even when it is unsafe), are slow to respond to demands for power, and they waste fuel. I'd almost agree, but CVTs, now available on hybrids and some other vehicles (like the Freestar) can be a significant improvement over conventional automatics and provide better fuel economy. I'll give up my standard for a good CVT... someday. Mike Put whatever transmission you want in a Freestar and it's still a piece of **** (aka a Dirtstar, as those in the biz like to call them). I'm with Rick, standard all the way. And no frickin' rudder either. Hi Kman, I was glad to see your post, and had missed your presence in these parts recently, and I hoped that we had not hurt your feelings, and that you were still well. I figure you have maybe been busy with your friend Keenan selling the tickets to some shindig up there in OTT, that is coming up soon. Sounds like a lot of fun! Is it a New Years celebration, or just a fund raiser for his charity work? Seems he has done this program in previous years. Is this your first year? Anyway to the subject of this post, I will endorse what your friend Keenan says about his rudder time. At least as far as it appears from his website stories about paddling trips. All of the pictures show, to the best I can determine, that the rudders are there, but up. If you paddle together very much, I assume you probably follow suite. Of course you would not be able to use a rudder in some of the shallower streams, or risk having it torn off. Especially in the swifts and hell holes that you explored, and swam in! That was what a class III or IV? You would not want to do a wet exit and then have to self-rescue with a rudder in the way, as any of the WW specialist here would attest to. None of their play boats have rudders that I know of just for that reason. Using a seakayak in the narrows must be tricky to steer in fast water though, since I am sure they do not turn on a dime, as they say! Though you apparently have mastered the art having survived to write numerous stories. I also realize that some of the pictures are in big flat water, but again do not show a deployed rudder, so you must be accomplishing your turns with something other than a rudder! Unless of course you use them only during storms and rough weather when you are too busy for picture taking. Most all the pictures were taken on very placid water, beautiful, smooth, where you would not need a rudder to control a barge, and certainly not any tsunami conditions, or breaking surf, or storm surge. Do they have tsunami in OTT? As for myself, having started kayaking in a WW kayak on flat water, and found how frustrating that it is to go anywhere, though I did get a lot of bracing practice, I will continue to use my rudder on my bagboats. My Folbot and Klepper, are maybe more like the barge I mentioned. I figure I can always lean and brace to accomplish a turn, a rudder just makes it easier. Then it also allows me to hoist a sail, and sail along, taking a few paddle strokes now and then! A nice quiet form of motor sailing. Concerning Auto trans, I often drive 100 miles per day in traffic, and yeah it may use more gas, but then so does the AC unit, that I use to keep cool in rush hour parking lots! I don't hear any of the macho types saying they don't use their AC in summer! Or for that matter up in the cold north country, where you come from, saying they just turn off the auto heater, so as to toughen up against the cold! Actually I did see one picture where the rudder was deployed, but that was several years ago when the journal indicated you all had first started kayaking. I won't count that against you though, since I can't see that it is you in the bright yellow kayak. And besides since you had just started, you were probably under the impression as a newbie, that if you had a rudder, you were intended to use it. Especially since you had probably not master all the paddle and bracing stokes yet! Now if I could just figure out how to put a motor on my kayak! Oh yeah, I did try one this last summer, but that is another story! RkyMtnHootOwl 0vQ |
add a rudder to a kayak?
RkyMtnHootOwl???!!!
New moniker, eh Tink? |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On 2 Dec 2005 14:49:06 -0800, BCITORGB wrote:
RkyMtnHootOwl???!!! New moniker, eh Tink? Hi Wilf, Yeah, I have been trying to come up with a name that I could use here and other discussion groups, that had not been used already. I originally wanted Hootowl, but there were already a bunch of them posting, or had the email addresses subscribed too. Anyway I hope now to establish RkyMtmHootOwl as a recognizable name where ever I wander! I picked up the Hotmail.com, Yahoo.com, and my Qwest.com emails that should last me awhile. In addition to Tinker as a childhood friend, I had a Hootowl that was a special pet, So I thought this was a tribute to "Hooty" who I could always talk to, and he always listened! Life is about each moment of breath, Living, about each breathless moment! Thanks, KnesisKnosis, aka Tinkerntom, aka TnT and just for Wilf, "Tink" and now a friendlier, "RkyMtnHootOwl" 0v0 2 WW kayaks, '73 Folbot Super, pre '60 Klepper AEII 77 Hobie Cat 16 To email, use only one "hoot", and I'll get the message! |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , Michael Daly at wrote on 12/1/05 5:08 PM: On 1-Dec-2005, "Rick Donnelly" wrote: I have paddled in full storm 50+ mph winds, waves chopped off from those winds, w/o a rudder. That said, I had a boat that performed reasonably well w/o a rudder. Under those conditions, a rudder can work poorly. If you are on short wavelength waves, the rudder can spend a lot of time out of the water. I've watched ruddered kayaks zigzag under those conditions while I tracked straight in a non-ruddered kayak. Quite right... I will never buy an automatic transmisson again - not from any manufacturer. At best, they make driving dull. At worst, they dictate when shifting should occur (even when it is unsafe), are slow to respond to demands for power, and they waste fuel. I'd almost agree, but CVTs, now available on hybrids and some other vehicles (like the Freestar) can be a significant improvement over conventional automatics and provide better fuel economy. I'll give up my standard for a good CVT... someday. Mike Put whatever transmission you want in a Freestar and it's still a piece of **** (aka a Dirtstar, as those in the biz like to call them). I'm with Rick, standard all the way. And no frickin' rudder either. Hi Kman, I was glad to see your post, and had missed your presence in these parts recently, and I hoped that we had not hurt your feelings, and that you were still well. Who are you, and who is the "we" that would have hurt my feelings? (FYI, I don't ascribe to the notion that my feelings are subject to injury. My feelings are derived as a result of my own thinking). I figure you have maybe been busy with your friend Keenan selling the tickets to some shindig up there in OTT, that is coming up soon. Sounds like a lot of fun! Is it a New Years celebration, or just a fund raiser for his charity work? Seems he has done this program in previous years. Is this your first year? Holy christ, what sort of cyberstalker are you? I had no idea what you were talking about and then realized that there is probably somewhere on the net a single post where I mentioned what I was planning to do on NYE, and from somewhere else you've found the first name of the guy who sells the tickets. Why do you know this? You are scary! Not in the sense that I fear you, but in the sense that you are a kook! snip further weird blather filled with identity consusion Concerning Auto trans, I often drive 100 miles per day in traffic, and yeah it may use more gas, but then so does the AC unit, that I use to keep cool in rush hour parking lots! I don't hear any of the macho types saying they don't use their AC in summer! Or for that matter up in the cold north country, where you come from, saying they just turn off the auto heater, so as to toughen up against the cold! What does this have to do with standard vs auto transmission? snip further weird blather filled with identity confusion |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip Hi Kman, I was glad to see your post, and had missed your presence in these parts recently, and I hoped that we had not hurt your feelings, and that you were still well. Who are you, and who is the "we" that would have hurt my feelings? (FYI, I don't ascribe to the notion that my feelings are subject to injury. My feelings are derived as a result of my own thinking). That would certainly explain the apparent lack of any injuries! As to the "we", that would be those of us who continue to post, or lurk in this NG, who miss your posting when you are off Kamanalizing elsewhere! As to the "you", you may have to do some reserch on that one yourself! I figure you have maybe been busy with your friend Keenan selling the tickets to some shindig up there in OTT, that is coming up soon. Sounds like a lot of fun! Is it a New Years celebration, or just a fund raiser for his charity work? Seems he has done this program in previous years. Is this your first year? Holy christ, what sort of cyberstalker are you? I had no idea what you were talking about and then realized that there is probably somewhere on the net a single post where I mentioned what I was planning to do on NYE, and from somewhere else you've found the first name of the guy who sells the tickets. Why do you know this? You are scary! Not in the sense that I fear you, but in the sense that you are a kook! No CS here, just checking out Google pushed links on the R.B.P. archive! I like to check out and lurk, where there is active posting going on, and came across a hot bed of activity in the OTT area. Seems one of the most active posters who lets it all hang out in the public slipstream is one - Kman! Turns out a friend of mine from years past is from that area, and I like to read his web posted paddling stories, and there seems to be a knowledgeable relationship between Kman and Keenan, who both also post on various OTT NG's. One of these years, I may even try to make it up to the Folbot Rideau Canal Flotilla that is held every year up there. Seems that a whole bunch of Folboters get together up there and explore the beautiful waterway. I have really appreciated Keenan's pictures, and envy him his access to so much beautiful country and waterways. I have spent some lurking time reading his stories. From previous contact, I knew that he sold ticket to some shindig that is supposedly the place to be on a particular night in OTT! I may have read that "single post" by you saying you were involved it this shindig, but now I could hardly tell you with out doing some serious googling, and that is time I don't need to spend. I suppose if there is anything to be learned in all this, is that a person needs to be careful what they post out here in the "Wild, Wild West" of the Usenet, since you never know who may read what you put down in cybercement for anyone to read, forever! Even one single post! Nothing particularly kookie about it. My Grand-MaMa said "Fools names, and Fools Faces, always end up in public places!" I think she was in particular refering to the writing on public bathroom walls. I suppose the usenet is like one big public wall! snip further weird blather filled with identity consusion (You snipped and I unsnipped) I am not sure what "identity consusion" is so I find it difficult to know how to respond other than as I responded above. I suspect that Kman and Keenan are familiar with each other, and seem to have gone to the same school of usenet posting, though he does seem to be a little faster on the draw! He probably does not have to worry so much about who he is, no identity confusion there, he knows who he is! If I caused you any identity confusion, I would just encourage you to think more about it! Anyway to the subject of this post, I will endorse what your friend Keenan says about his rudder time. At least as far as it appears from his website stories about paddling trips. All of the pictures show, to the best I can determine, that the rudders are there, but up. If you paddle together very much, I assume you probably follow suite. In as much as the use of a rudder on a kayak, was the main theme of this thread, I thought it was appropriate to resussitate the thread, off the OT personal ID confusion issues! I do not mean to ignore your issues, but to not bore others who may be reading this thread with an interest in the use of rudders on a kayak! Someone ask, about your basis of experience to comment regarding the use of a rudder on a kayak. Keenan's pictures indicate that though he has a rudder on his kayak, he does not deploy it. I do not know whether that is standard practice in the OTT region, or whether that is just his personal preference, which may or may not have anything to do with your preference of not using one either as you stated. Just a possible conclusion as stated from the following observations, about OTT posters! Of course you would not be able to use a rudder in some of the shallower streams, or risk having it torn off. Especially in the swifts and hell holes that you explored, and swam in! That was what a class III or IV? You would not want to do a wet exit and then have to self-rescue with a rudder in the way, as any of the WW specialist here would attest to. None of their play boats have rudders that I know of just for that reason. Using a seakayak in the narrows must be tricky to steer in fast water though, since I am sure they do not turn on a dime, as they say! Though you apparently have mastered the art having survived to write numerous stories. I also realize that some of the pictures are in big flat water, but again do not show a deployed rudder, so you must be accomplishing your turns with something other than a rudder! Unless of course you use them only during storms and rough weather when you are too busy for picture taking. Most all the pictures were taken on very placid water, beautiful, smooth, where you would not need a rudder to control a barge, and certainly not any tsunami conditions, or breaking surf, or storm surge. Do they have tsunami in OTT? As for myself, having started kayaking in a WW kayak on flat water, and found how frustrating that it is to go anywhere, though I did get a lot of bracing practice, I will continue to use my rudder on my bagboats. My Folbot and Klepper, are maybe more like the barge I mentioned. I figure I can always lean and brace to accomplish a turn, a rudder just makes it easier. Then it also allows me to hoist a sail, and sail along, taking a few paddle strokes now and then! A nice quiet form of motor sailing. Concerning Auto trans, I often drive 100 miles per day in traffic, and yeah it may use more gas, but then so does the AC unit, that I use to keep cool in rush hour parking lots! I don't hear any of the macho types saying they don't use their AC in summer! Or for that matter up in the cold north country, where you come from, saying they just turn off the auto heater, so as to toughen up against the cold! Actually I did see one picture where the rudder was deployed, but that was several years ago when the journal indicated you all had first started kayaking. I won't count that against you though, since I can't see that it is you in the bright yellow kayak. And besides since you had just started, you were probably under the impression as a newbie, that if you had a rudder, you were intended to use it. Especially since you had probably not mastered all the paddle and bracing stokes yet! Now if I could just figure out how to put a motor on my kayak! Oh yeah, I did try one this last summer, but that is another story! What does this have to do with standard vs auto transmission? Well like I said, Keenan is a little faster, and would be able to figure it out, so why don't you ask him! snip further weird blather filled with identity confusion RkyMtnHootOwl 0vQ I know who I am, no ID confusion here! If you are confused about who you are, think about it! again, RkyMtnHootOwl OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/3/05 6:10 AM: On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip Hi Kman, I was glad to see your post, and had missed your presence in these parts recently, and I hoped that we had not hurt your feelings, and that you were still well. Who are you, and who is the "we" that would have hurt my feelings? (FYI, I don't ascribe to the notion that my feelings are subject to injury. My feelings are derived as a result of my own thinking). That would certainly explain the apparent lack of any injuries! As to the "we", that would be those of us who continue to post, or lurk in this NG, who miss your posting when you are off Kamanalizing elsewhere! As to the "you", you may have to do some reserch on that one yourself! No thanks, I'm not a cyberstalking freak! I figure you have maybe been busy with your friend Keenan selling the tickets to some shindig up there in OTT, that is coming up soon. Sounds like a lot of fun! Is it a New Years celebration, or just a fund raiser for his charity work? Seems he has done this program in previous years. Is this your first year? Holy christ, what sort of cyberstalker are you? I had no idea what you were talking about and then realized that there is probably somewhere on the net a single post where I mentioned what I was planning to do on NYE, and from somewhere else you've found the first name of the guy who sells the tickets. Why do you know this? You are scary! Not in the sense that I fear you, but in the sense that you are a kook! No CS here, just checking out Google pushed links on the R.B.P. archive! I like to check out and lurk, where there is active posting going on, and came across a hot bed of activity in the OTT area. Seems one of the most active posters who lets it all hang out in the public slipstream is one - Kman! Turns out a friend of mine from years past is from that area, and I like to read his web posted paddling stories, and there seems to be a knowledgeable relationship between Kman and Keenan, who both also post on various OTT NG's. I haven't seen any Keenan posts on the ott. ng's. But I guess you would know, since knowing such things seems to be a twisted hobby of yours. One of these years, I may even try to make it up to the Folbot Rideau Canal Flotilla that is held every year up there. Seems that a whole bunch of Folboters get together up there and explore the beautiful waterway. I have really appreciated Keenan's pictures, and envy him his access to so much beautiful country and waterways. I have spent some lurking time reading his stories. Huhn. Well, that sounds harmless enough. From previous contact, I knew that he sold ticket to some shindig that is supposedly the place to be on a particular night in OTT! I may have read that "single post" by you saying you were involved it this shindig, but now I could hardly tell you with out doing some serious googling, and that is time I don't need to spend. Yes, clearly you are needed elsewhere. I suppose if there is anything to be learned in all this, is that a person needs to be careful what they post out here in the "Wild, Wild West" of the Usenet, since you never know who may read what you put down in cybercement for anyone to read, forever! Even one single post! Uh. I don't really think it's a problem that I replied to someone asking about people's plans for NYE. Is it disturbing that a freak like yourself goes around storing such information? Sure. Does that call for me to be more careful with my posts? I don't think so. Nothing particularly kookie about it. My Grand-MaMa said "Fools names, and Fools Faces, always end up in public places!" Sounds like your grand-mama was as big a freak as you! I think she was in particular refering to the writing on public bathroom walls. I suppose the usenet is like one big public wall! Wow, that's deep. You should write a book. Or perhaps become the high tech policy advisor to George Bush Jr. snip further weird blather filled with identity consusion (You snipped and I unsnipped) I am not sure what "identity consusion" is so I find it difficult to know how to respond other than as I responded above. I suspect that Kman and Keenan are familiar with each other, and seem to have gone to the same school of usenet posting, though he does seem to be a little faster on the draw! He probably does not have to worry so much about who he is, no identity confusion there, he knows who he is! If I caused you any identity confusion, I would just encourage you to think more about it! Did you smoke a full pipe of crack just prior to typing the paragraph above? Anyway to the subject of this post, I will endorse what your friend Keenan says about his rudder time. At least as far as it appears from his website stories about paddling trips. All of the pictures show, to the best I can determine, that the rudders are there, but up. If you paddle together very much, I assume you probably follow suite. In as much as the use of a rudder on a kayak, was the main theme of this thread, I thought it was appropriate to resussitate the thread, off the OT personal ID confusion issues! I do not mean to ignore your issues, but to not bore others who may be reading this thread with an interest in the use of rudders on a kayak! Someone ask, about your basis of experience to comment regarding the use of a rudder on a kayak. Keenan's pictures indicate that though he has a rudder on his kayak, he does not deploy it. Attempted translation, with less blather: You've looked at pictures of a kayak being paddled without a rudder. I do not know whether that is standard practice in the OTT region, or whether that is just his personal preference, which may or may not have anything to do with your preference of not using one either as you stated. Just a possible conclusion as stated from the following observations, about OTT posters! A great many kayaks are sold with a rudder attached. I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Of course you would not be able to use a rudder in some of the shallower streams, or risk having it torn off. Especially in the swifts and hell holes that you explored, and swam in! That was what a class III or IV? You would not want to do a wet exit and then have to self-rescue with a rudder in the way, as any of the WW specialist here would attest to. None of their play boats have rudders that I know of just for that reason. Using a seakayak in the narrows must be tricky to steer in fast water though, since I am sure they do not turn on a dime, as they say! Though you apparently have mastered the art having survived to write numerous stories. I also realize that some of the pictures are in big flat water, but again do not show a deployed rudder, so you must be accomplishing your turns with something other than a rudder! Unless of course you use them only during storms and rough weather when you are too busy for picture taking. Most all the pictures were taken on very placid water, beautiful, smooth, where you would not need a rudder to control a barge, and certainly not any tsunami conditions, or breaking surf, or storm surge. Do they have tsunami in OTT? As for myself, having started kayaking in a WW kayak on flat water, and found how frustrating that it is to go anywhere, though I did get a lot of bracing practice, I will continue to use my rudder on my bagboats. My Folbot and Klepper, are maybe more like the barge I mentioned. I figure I can always lean and brace to accomplish a turn, a rudder just makes it easier. Then it also allows me to hoist a sail, and sail along, taking a few paddle strokes now and then! A nice quiet form of motor sailing. Concerning Auto trans, I often drive 100 miles per day in traffic, and yeah it may use more gas, but then so does the AC unit, that I use to keep cool in rush hour parking lots! I don't hear any of the macho types saying they don't use their AC in summer! Or for that matter up in the cold north country, where you come from, saying they just turn off the auto heater, so as to toughen up against the cold! Actually I did see one picture where the rudder was deployed, but that was several years ago when the journal indicated you all had first started kayaking. I won't count that against you though, since I can't see that it is you in the bright yellow kayak. And besides since you had just started, you were probably under the impression as a newbie, that if you had a rudder, you were intended to use it. Especially since you had probably not mastered all the paddle and bracing stokes yet! Now if I could just figure out how to put a motor on my kayak! Oh yeah, I did try one this last summer, but that is another story! What does this have to do with standard vs auto transmission? Well like I said, Keenan is a little faster, and would be able to figure it out, so why don't you ask him! The question was actually intended more as a statement, i.e. "This has nothing to do with standard vs auto transmission." snip further weird blather filled with identity confusion RkyMtnHootOwl 0vQ I know who I am, no ID confusion here! If you are confused about who you are, think about it! again, RkyMtnHootOwl OvO Freak! |
add a rudder to a kayak?
KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/3/05 6:10 AM: On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip snip and in summary Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article ,
RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 4:45 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/3/05 6:10 AM: On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip snip and in summary Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO Perhaps if you didn't snip the entire message sans the final word it would be understood differently? However, I do congratulate you on writing a relatively clear sentence with a relatively clear meaning. I believe that is a first! |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:33:21 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 4:45 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/3/05 6:10 AM: On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip snip and in summary Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO Perhaps if you didn't snip the entire message sans the final word it would be understood differently? However, I do congratulate you on writing a relatively clear sentence with a relatively clear meaning. I believe that is a first! I snipped because I saw no significant response to the resurrected thread forthcoming. There was no purpose to continue to waste the bandwidth! I am sure that any who may desire to shed light on the depth of your previous prose, can read the previous posts for significant insight! OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/4/05 2:40 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:33:21 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 4:45 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/3/05 6:10 AM: On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip snip and in summary Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO Perhaps if you didn't snip the entire message sans the final word it would be understood differently? However, I do congratulate you on writing a relatively clear sentence with a relatively clear meaning. I believe that is a first! I snipped because I saw no significant response to the resurrected thread forthcoming You find it difficult to cope when you can't control others, don't you! |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 14:51:14 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 2:40 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:33:21 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 4:45 AM: KMAN wrote: snip Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO Perhaps if you didn't snip the entire message sans the final word it would be understood differently? However, I do congratulate you on writing a relatively clear sentence with a relatively clear meaning. I believe that is a first! I snipped because I saw no significant response to the resurrected thread forthcoming You find it difficult to cope when you can't control others, don't you! Still no significant response to the on topic thread! OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/4/05 3:37 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 14:51:14 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 2:40 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:33:21 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 4:45 AM: KMAN wrote: snip Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO Perhaps if you didn't snip the entire message sans the final word it would be understood differently? However, I do congratulate you on writing a relatively clear sentence with a relatively clear meaning. I believe that is a first! I snipped because I saw no significant response to the resurrected thread forthcoming You find it difficult to cope when you can't control others, don't you! Still no significant response to the on topic thread! OvO A thread is a thread. It is neither on-topic nor off-topic. The posts in the thread can be either on-topic or off-topic and (subjectively speaking) significant or insignificant. Do you mean to say I haven't made any posts relevant to the topic of the thread? Go back and read the thread. I've already posted extensively with my views on kayaks and rudders. You've babbled on about using air conditioning in a car and other non-analogous ramblings. If you have a specific question regarding kayaks and rudders, please feel free to pose it. |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:50:28 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 3:37 PM: snip A thread is a thread. It is neither on-topic nor off-topic. The posts in the thread can be either on-topic or off-topic and (subjectively speaking) significant or insignificant. As they usually are! Do you mean to say I haven't made any posts relevant to the topic of the thread? Go back and read the thread. I've already posted extensively with my views on kayaks and rudders. I have never questioned that you posted extensively! In fact I attempted to determine and establish the basis in experience of your postings to this NG, so that I/we could better understand and appreciate your postings. I realize that as a non-entity Usenet identity, that you may be associated with known personalities (K&J). If you do not desire that association to be made, that is your choice, and for your respected reasons. But understand the charade is quite thinly veiled, and I believe apparent to most. I have been working to establish a new ID myself, but not to hide my true ID, but instead to clearly establish it, so that it will be easily recognizable who a person is talking to when they correspond with me. I realize the necessity to protect your private info, but I believe there is an element of subterfuge in your postings as Kman, that are intended to hide not only your annonimity, but the intent and veracity of your posting as well. On the other hand, K&J has a totally different personality, and IMHO, much more interesting, and should I say trustworthy! Kman seems to be much more of a Usenet rebel, whose input is suspect, and without the quality of real life experience. He makes me think of a Usenet ghost, that just pops in and out of a NG, with his quips, and then fades away! No real commitment to the health of the group, or the current discussion. Some would call it trolling! You've babbled on about using air conditioning in a car and other non-analogous ramblings. Some insist that the use of autotrans saves gas, and yet use the AC which can use up to 1/4 of the available Hp. hence "wasting gas" for their comfort and convienence. A rudder may not be as efficient as just leaning into a turn, but is more convienent, especially with beamy boats like my Folbot Super and Klepper AEII. So saving gas is not so much the issue as comfort and convienence, and the macho illusion of using a standard transmission. Having driven over the road trucks with standard trans with up to 21 gears, that is a lot of work, and those boys are going to autotrans as much as possible these days. Most folks do not take full advantage of the gear selection options of a standard transmission. Even professional race car drivers miss a shift at times, so are also using autotrans. Now I would also admit that driving a sporty little convertible with a 5 speed standard, in the mountain roads, is a heck of a lot of fun! For the same reason paddling a responsive kayak in waves is a blast. The use of a rudder becomes inconsequential. Just let me paddle! If you have a specific question regarding kayaks and rudders, please feel free to pose it. If I pose a specific question, can I expect you to pose a specific, and non inflamatory reponse? And again, what would the basis of your experience be to answer such a question? In other words, do you really know what you are talking about, or are you just a - Poser? I think that was the jist of the question that was ask earlier in the thread by someone else, and a question you did not choose to answer! Would you care to answer it now? RkyMtnHootOwl OvO I have been thinking of another ditty! "Give a hoot, don't polloot the NG" OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/4/05 6:07 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:50:28 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 3:37 PM: snip A thread is a thread. It is neither on-topic nor off-topic. The posts in the thread can be either on-topic or off-topic and (subjectively speaking) significant or insignificant. As they usually are! Do you mean to say I haven't made any posts relevant to the topic of the thread? Go back and read the thread. I've already posted extensively with my views on kayaks and rudders. I have never questioned that you posted extensively! In fact I attempted to determine and establish the basis in experience of your postings to this NG, so that I/we could better understand and appreciate your postings. I realize that as a non-entity Usenet identity, that you may be associated with known personalities (K&J). If you do not desire that association to be made, that is your choice, and for your respected reasons. But understand the charade is quite thinly veiled, and I believe apparent to most. Whatever you are flapping off about now, it most assuredly has nothing to do with the thread, which is supposedly your primary concern. snip blather Kman seems to be much more of a Usenet rebel, whose input is suspect, and without the quality of real life experience. He makes me think of a Usenet ghost, that just pops in and out of a NG, with his quips, and then fades away! No real commitment to the health of the group, or the current discussion. Some would call it trolling! I have a long established internet presence, but leaving that point aside, whether or not I post as George Bush or KMAN, the veracity of my statements may be judged in equal fashion according to their content. You've babbled on about using air conditioning in a car and other non-analogous ramblings. Some insist that the use of autotrans saves gas, and yet use the AC which can use up to 1/4 of the available Hp. hence "wasting gas" for their comfort and convienence. A rudder may not be as efficient as just leaning into a turn, but is more convienent, especially with beamy boats like my Folbot Super and Klepper AEII. Sounds like your boat just doesn't work very well :-/ So saving gas is not so much the issue as comfort and convienence, and the macho illusion of using a standard transmission. Macho illusion? You mean there's no women that prefer driving standard? Heh. I know quite a few. Having driven over the road trucks with standard trans with up to 21 gears, that is a lot of work, and those boys are going to autotrans as much as possible these days. Most folks do not take full advantage of the gear selection options of a standard transmission. Even professional race car drivers miss a shift at times, so are also using autotrans. What the hell sort of race car uses an automatic transmission!?!? Good grief, pretty soon there won't be any drivers! Now I would also admit that driving a sporty little convertible with a 5 speed standard, in the mountain roads, is a heck of a lot of fun! For the same reason paddling a responsive kayak in waves is a blast. The use of a rudder becomes inconsequential. Just let me paddle! Uh. Who is stopping you? If you have a specific question regarding kayaks and rudders, please feel free to pose it. If I pose a specific question, can I expect you to pose a specific, and non inflamatory reponse? Probably. It depends, I would suppose, on the question and how pose it. Try to ask it without being an asshole, if you are concerned about the politeness of the response. And again, what would the basis of your experience be to answer such a question? In other words, do you really know what you are talking about, or are you just a - Poser? I'll be sure to adequately reference my statements for you. I think that was the jist of the question that was ask earlier in the thread by someone else, and a question you did not choose to answer! Would you care to answer it now? RkyMtnHootOwl OvO I have no idea what you are talking about. But as stated, if you wish to ask a question that relates to the title of the thread, just ask it. Your incessant off-topic blather is not necessary. I have been thinking of another ditty! "Give a hoot, don't polloot the NG" OvO I have to ask, are you an adult? I've just realized you might well be a child in grade school and I've been a little harsh with you! |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:57:57 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 6:07 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:50:28 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip Whatever you are flapping off about now, it most assuredly has nothing to do with the thread, which is supposedly your primary concern. And what is your primary concern? snip blather Kman seems to be much more of a Usenet rebel, whose input is suspect, and without the quality of real life experience. He makes me think of a Usenet ghost, that just pops in and out of a NG, with his quips, and then fades away! No real commitment to the health of the group, or the current discussion. Some would call it trolling! I have a long established internet presence, That's a hoot!!! but leaving that point aside, whether or not I post as George Bush or KMAN, the veracity of my statements may be judged in equal fashion according to their content. The trashman cometh! You've babbled on about using air conditioning in a car and other non-analogous ramblings. Some insist that the use of autotrans saves gas, and yet use the AC which can use up to 1/4 of the available Hp. hence "wasting gas" for their comfort and convienence. A rudder may not be as efficient as just leaning into a turn, but is more convienent, especially with beamy boats like my Folbot Super and Klepper AEII. Sounds like your boat just doesn't work very well :-/ Works fine, and as designed, with a rudder! Kleppers have been used in trans-Atlantic crossings, has yours? Each design has a specific purpose, and some designs include a rudder. The rudder is not inheritantly bad, as you have indicated. So saving gas is not so much the issue as comfort and convienence, and the macho illusion of using a standard transmission. Macho illusion? You mean there's no women that prefer driving standard? Heh. I know quite a few. I am not surprised that you would know quite a few! snip Just let me paddle! Uh. Who is stopping you? Old Man Winter! If you have a specific question regarding kayaks and rudders, please feel free to pose it. If I pose a specific question, can I expect you to pose a specific, and non inflamatory reponse? Probably. It depends, I would suppose, on the question and how pose it. Try to ask it without being an asshole, if you are concerned about the politeness of the response. And again, what would the basis of your experience be to answer such a question? In other words, do you really know what you are talking about, or are you just a - Poser? I'll be sure to adequately reference my statements for you. I think that was the jist of the question that was ask earlier in the thread by someone else, and a question you did not choose to answer! Would you care to answer it now? RkyMtnHootOwl OvO I have no idea what you are talking about. But as stated, if you wish to ask a question that relates to the title of the thread, just ask it. Your incessant off-topic blather is not necessary. On Sept 24th at 8:00 am, of this thread, Bits ask you a question about your resume, KMAN would you be open to sharing your kayaking resume so I can better judge how to process you input and comments on this thread? .. . To which you gave your usual impertinent response, on Sept 24th at 9:17 am. Well, I ain't no Paul Caffyn. But you don't need to circumnavigate the freakin' plant to understand that a rudder is a recreational appendage, unecessary to accurate and efficient paddling. Bits resplied back, on Sept 24th at 7:24 am., Ah, a simple no would have been sufficient! No need to apologize to me with regard to your experience level. Thank you for your response. I love this community! Apparently you have no credentials for your blather about not using a rudder other than your thoughtful blowhard! As far as I can see, Bits has not chosen to continue a dialog with you. I expect that he understands now the basis of your buffoonery about the use of rudders and your experience level, and the expected lack of content of your replies! I have observed this phenomenum in other threads and NG, with the resulting response to your post! As a sailor, I drift the way the wind blows! If I drift OT, there is probably a blowhard somewhere upwind! I usually try not to drift, but to sail upwind if possible! "The pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist expects it to change, the realist adjusts the sails." I am learning to adjust my sails! I have been thinking of another ditty! "Give a hoot, don't polloot the NG" OvO I have to ask, are you an adult? I've just realized you might well be a child in grade school and I've been a little harsh with you! If as a child, I am judged guileless, I will be happy to be judged a child. Though as an adult, I find that I must put up with much buffoonery! OvG |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/4/05 8:18 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:57:57 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 6:07 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:50:28 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip Whatever you are flapping off about now, it most assuredly has nothing to do with the thread, which is supposedly your primary concern. And what is your primary concern? In this thread? I'd say it is to ensure that some innocent newbie doesn't get the idea that they don't need to learn how to paddle since their kayak has a rudder. snip blather Kman seems to be much more of a Usenet rebel, whose input is suspect, and without the quality of real life experience. He makes me think of a Usenet ghost, that just pops in and out of a NG, with his quips, and then fades away! No real commitment to the health of the group, or the current discussion. Some would call it trolling! I have a long established internet presence, That's a hoot!!! How so? You've babbled on about using air conditioning in a car and other non-analogous ramblings. Some insist that the use of autotrans saves gas, and yet use the AC which can use up to 1/4 of the available Hp. hence "wasting gas" for their comfort and convienence. A rudder may not be as efficient as just leaning into a turn, but is more convienent, especially with beamy boats like my Folbot Super and Klepper AEII. Sounds like your boat just doesn't work very well :-/ Works fine, and as designed, with a rudder! Kleppers have been used in trans-Atlantic crossings, has yours? Each design has a specific purpose, and some designs include a rudder. The rudder is not inheritantly bad, as you have indicated. I'd be rather terrifed crossing the Atlantic in a boat that won't work if the rudder malfunctions! So saving gas is not so much the issue as comfort and convienence, and the macho illusion of using a standard transmission. Macho illusion? You mean there's no women that prefer driving standard? Heh. I know quite a few. I am not surprised that you would know quite a few! You don't know any? Just let me paddle! Uh. Who is stopping you? Old Man Winter! Ah. If you have a specific question regarding kayaks and rudders, please feel free to pose it. If I pose a specific question, can I expect you to pose a specific, and non inflamatory reponse? Probably. It depends, I would suppose, on the question and how pose it. Try to ask it without being an asshole, if you are concerned about the politeness of the response. And again, what would the basis of your experience be to answer such a question? In other words, do you really know what you are talking about, or are you just a - Poser? I'll be sure to adequately reference my statements for you. I think that was the jist of the question that was ask earlier in the thread by someone else, and a question you did not choose to answer! Would you care to answer it now? RkyMtnHootOwl OvO I have no idea what you are talking about. But as stated, if you wish to ask a question that relates to the title of the thread, just ask it. Your incessant off-topic blather is not necessary. On Sept 24th at 8:00 am, of this thread, Bits ask you a question about your resume, KMAN would you be open to sharing your kayaking resume so I can better judge how to process you input and comments on this thread? .. . To which you gave your usual impertinent response, on Sept 24th at 9:17 am. Well, I ain't no Paul Caffyn. But you don't need to circumnavigate the freakin' plant to understand that a rudder is a recreational appendage, unecessary to accurate and efficient paddling. Bits resplied back, on Sept 24th at 7:24 am., Ah, a simple no would have been sufficient! No need to apologize to me with regard to your experience level. Thank you for your response. I love this community! Apparently you have no credentials for your blather about not using a rudder other than your thoughtful blowhard! As far as I can see, Bits has not chosen to continue a dialog with you. I expect that he understands now the basis of your buffoonery about the use of rudders and your experience level, and the expected lack of content of your replies! I have observed this phenomenum in other threads and NG, with the resulting response to your post! I don't recall this "Bits" exchange (and certainly don't attach importance to it) but apparently you are rather fascinated with it (and me) for some bizarre cyberstalking reason. The fact that I did not choose to share with "Bits" my paddling background does not mean that I do not have one, nor is it relevant to the many points made about the use of rudders by myself and others. For "expert" opinion you may - as you clearly know how to do - google on experts and kayaking and rudders. I could tell you I've paddled the full length of the Niagara River in both directions and also circumnavigated Newfoundland and therefore have unique knowledge as to the efficacy of rudders, if that will help you move beyond your concerns about experience and simply examine the arguments. As a sailor, I drift the way the wind blows! If I drift OT, there is probably a blowhard somewhere upwind! I usually try not to drift, but to sail upwind if possible! Geezus, this from the king of the blowhards. You are largely incapable of a concise statement of any kind. "The pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist expects it to change, the realist adjusts the sails." I am learning to adjust my sails! Try giving your head a shake. I have been thinking of another ditty! "Give a hoot, don't polloot the NG" OvO I have to ask, are you an adult? I've just realized you might well be a child in grade school and I've been a little harsh with you! If as a child, I am judged guileless, I will be happy to be judged a child. Though as an adult, I find that I must put up with much buffoonery! OvG You generate a lot of it, certainly. |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 21:18:17 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 8:18 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:57:57 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 6:07 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:50:28 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip the thread, which is supposedly your primary concern. And what is your primary concern? In this thread? I'd say it is to ensure that some innocent newbie doesn't get the idea that they don't need to learn how to paddle since their kayak has a rudder. An admirable concern! However very few newbies are trully innocent. Most have seen a kayak or canoe paddled before, and have an idea of what is suppose to be going on with the paddle end of the stick, and the rudder end of the boat. That is one of the beauties of the sport, anyone can do it to some degree in short order. It might not be pretty, but it will still be fun! Now I realize that may not keep them out of trouble, and having said that it seems that even us "veterans" can get in our own share of trouble. I would mention the story of Keenan slicing down the river swift, apparently without checking the rapids first. I have had my own share of self induced "trouble". But if we can save a newbie now and then, I am in favor of saving anyone that can be saved! Ask me about Jesus! The thread was not about newbies using rudders, but about rudder use in general, and even by experienced paddlers on difficult circumnavigations. You seemed to be in opposition to many experienced paddlers even here on the RBP, who were willing to recognize that they have their place. Check with other discussion groups, like Paddlewise, and find a similar discussion. snip Some would call it trolling! I have a long established internet presence, That's a hoot!!! How so? You have made me snort my "gin and tonic" on more than one occasion. But then so does Bart Simpson, and though he has an establised presense on TV, I would not call him a great actor! And some would still call it trolling! snip A rudder may not be as efficient as just leaning into a turn, but is more convienent, especially with beamy boats like my Folbot Super and Klepper AEII. Sounds like your boat just doesn't work very well :-/ Works fine, and as designed, with a rudder! Kleppers have been used in trans-Atlantic crossings, has yours? Each design has a specific purpose, and some designs include a rudder. The rudder is not inheritantly bad, as you have indicated. I'd be rather terrifed crossing the Atlantic in a boat that won't work if the rudder malfunctions! I would be terrified of crossing the Atlantic in any kayak, especially one where all you could do was set for 57 days. Again a matter of design. My Klepper is a pre-'60 model, making it at least 45 years old, and the rudder is still working just fine. Where will your polyboat be 45 years from now, with or without a rudder? By the way, though I would be terrified, I also think it would be a grand adventure, if I were younger, and innocent! So saving gas is not so much the issue as comfort and convienence, and the macho illusion of using a standard transmission. Macho illusion? You mean there's no women that prefer driving standard? Heh. I know quite a few. I am not surprised that you would know quite a few! You don't know any? I have known a few, but now I am content with just my SO! She paddles rudderless, but then that is how her kayak was designed. Just let me paddle! Uh. Who is stopping you? Old Man Winter! Ah. snip I have no idea what you are talking about. But as stated, if you wish to ask a question that relates to the title of the thread, just ask it. Your incessant off-topic blather is not necessary. On Sept 24th at 8:00 am, of this thread, Bits ask you a question about your resume, KMAN would you be open to sharing your kayaking resume so I can better judge how to process you input and comments on this thread? .. . To which you gave your usual impertinent response, on Sept 24th at 9:17 am. Well, I ain't no Paul Caffyn. But you don't need to circumnavigate the freakin' plant to understand that a rudder is a recreational appendage, unecessary to accurate and efficient paddling. Bits resplied back, on Sept 24th at 7:24 am., Ah, a simple no would have been sufficient! No need to apologize to me with regard to your experience level. Thank you for your response. I love this community! Apparently you have no credentials for your blather about not using a rudder other than your thoughtful blowhard! As far as I can see, Bits has not chosen to continue a dialog with you. I expect that he understands now the basis of your buffoonery about the use of rudders and your experience level, and the expected lack of content of your replies! I have observed this phenomenum in other threads and NG, with the resulting response to your post! I don't recall this "Bits" exchange (and certainly don't attach importance to it) but apparently you are rather fascinated with it (and me) for some bizarre cyberstalking reason. The fact that I did not choose to share with "Bits" my paddling background does not mean that I do not have one, nor is it relevant to the many points made about the use of rudders by myself and others. For "expert" opinion you may - as you clearly know how to do - google on experts and kayaking and rudders. I could tell you I've paddled the full length of the Niagara River in both directions and also circumnavigated Newfoundland and therefore have unique knowledge as to the efficacy of rudders, if that will help you move beyond your concerns about experience and simply examine the arguments. Now would that not have been just as easy to say at the time Bits ask his question, as to be impertinent and rude! I thought from his question, that he was sincerely interested in your background, and would have gone on to have a constructive conversation with you. I have read some of the paddling exploits of your friend Keenan, but not all have that resourse. Regarding the facination with you, it has more to do with your personality than your person. You probably have much to offer in experiences as you demonstrate above, so why so impertinent? As a sailor, I drift the way the wind blows! If I drift OT, there is probably a blowhard somewhere upwind! I usually try not to drift, but to sail upwind if possible! Geezus, this from the king of the blowhards. You are largely incapable of a concise statement of any kind. Not incapable, just getting some all stirred up! "The pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist expects it to change, the realist adjusts the sails." I am learning to adjust my sails! Try giving your head a shake. If that is your cure, that probably explains a lot, since you have surely had to apply the remedy to yourself on many occasions! snip buffoonery! OvG You generate a lot of it, certainly. How would you know how much I generate unless you have been doing some CS yourself. However there are many times I lurk, that you would not feel the slightest breeze! I do not feel a compulsion to post where ever my monitor lights up. One thing about hoot owls, is that they fly very quietly, and their prey only knows about their presense when it is to late! OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/4/05 11:31 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 21:18:17 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 8:18 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:57:57 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 6:07 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:50:28 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip the thread, which is supposedly your primary concern. And what is your primary concern? In this thread? I'd say it is to ensure that some innocent newbie doesn't get the idea that they don't need to learn how to paddle since their kayak has a rudder. An admirable concern! Thanks. snip blather and potential invitation to join some sort of cult The thread was not about newbies using rudders It's been about many things, including the above. but about rudder use in general, and even by experienced paddlers on difficult circumnavigations. I believe there was discussion of one experienced paddler who uses a rudder almost all of the time, yes. You seemed to be in opposition to many experienced paddlers even here on the RBP, who were willing to recognize that they have their place. I would disagree. Most experienced paddlers (here and everywhere) will offer the opinion that a rudder is mostly used to compensate for poor technique and/or a poor boat. I have a long established internet presence, That's a hoot!!! How so? You have made me snort my "gin and tonic" on more than one occasion. But then so does Bart Simpson, and though he has an establised presense on TV, I would not call him a great actor! And some would still call it trolling! What on earth are you talking about now? A rudder may not be as efficient as just leaning into a turn, but is more convienent, especially with beamy boats like my Folbot Super and Klepper AEII. Sounds like your boat just doesn't work very well :-/ Works fine, and as designed, with a rudder! Kleppers have been used in trans-Atlantic crossings, has yours? Each design has a specific purpose, and some designs include a rudder. The rudder is not inheritantly bad, as you have indicated. I'd be rather terrifed crossing the Atlantic in a boat that won't work if the rudder malfunctions! I would be terrified of crossing the Atlantic in any kayak, especially one where all you could do was set for 57 days. Again a matter of design. My Klepper is a pre-'60 model, making it at least 45 years old, and the rudder is still working just fine. Where will your polyboat be 45 years from now, with or without a rudder? By the way, though I would be terrified, I also think it would be a grand adventure, if I were younger, and innocent! I think perhaps you missed the point. Hopefully deliberately, as I'd like to think you are more intelligent than you appear to be. The point is that if one must in fact rely on the rudder, one is at risk, not only of the rudder malfunctioning or getting broken (e.g. people who do things like crossing the Atlantic sometimes have to make emergency landings in places that have rocks eh?) or of being in conditions where a rudder is not going to perform well (e.g. with waves that result in the rear of the boat actually being out of the water at times). Thus the idea that a particular paddle craft will only function when the rudder is deployed is rather scary - and indicative of a fool holding the paddle, imo. So saving gas is not so much the issue as comfort and convienence, and the macho illusion of using a standard transmission. Macho illusion? You mean there's no women that prefer driving standard? Heh. I know quite a few. I am not surprised that you would know quite a few! You don't know any? I have known a few, but now I am content with just my SO! She paddles rudderless, but then that is how her kayak was designed. sigh Just let me paddle! Uh. Who is stopping you? Old Man Winter! Ah. snip I have no idea what you are talking about. But as stated, if you wish to ask a question that relates to the title of the thread, just ask it. Your incessant off-topic blather is not necessary. On Sept 24th at 8:00 am, of this thread, Bits ask you a question about your resume, KMAN would you be open to sharing your kayaking resume so I can better judge how to process you input and comments on this thread? .. . To which you gave your usual impertinent response, on Sept 24th at 9:17 am. Well, I ain't no Paul Caffyn. But you don't need to circumnavigate the freakin' plant to understand that a rudder is a recreational appendage, unecessary to accurate and efficient paddling. Bits resplied back, on Sept 24th at 7:24 am., Ah, a simple no would have been sufficient! No need to apologize to me with regard to your experience level. Thank you for your response. I love this community! Apparently you have no credentials for your blather about not using a rudder other than your thoughtful blowhard! As far as I can see, Bits has not chosen to continue a dialog with you. I expect that he understands now the basis of your buffoonery about the use of rudders and your experience level, and the expected lack of content of your replies! I have observed this phenomenum in other threads and NG, with the resulting response to your post! I don't recall this "Bits" exchange (and certainly don't attach importance to it) but apparently you are rather fascinated with it (and me) for some bizarre cyberstalking reason. The fact that I did not choose to share with "Bits" my paddling background does not mean that I do not have one, nor is it relevant to the many points made about the use of rudders by myself and others. For "expert" opinion you may - as you clearly know how to do - google on experts and kayaking and rudders. I could tell you I've paddled the full length of the Niagara River in both directions and also circumnavigated Newfoundland and therefore have unique knowledge as to the efficacy of rudders, if that will help you move beyond your concerns about experience and simply examine the arguments. Now would that not have been just as easy to say at the time Bits ask his question, as to be impertinent and rude! I thought from his question, that he was sincerely interested in your background, and would have gone on to have a constructive conversation with you. It's possible, I really don't know. Regarding the facination with you, it has more to do with your personality than your person. You probably have much to offer in experiences as you demonstrate above, so why so impertinent? Who the hell are you calling impertinent, you vacuous twit! As a sailor, I drift the way the wind blows! If I drift OT, there is probably a blowhard somewhere upwind! I usually try not to drift, but to sail upwind if possible! Geezus, this from the king of the blowhards. You are largely incapable of a concise statement of any kind. Not incapable, just getting some all stirred up! Something about you is clearly not stirred up quite right! "The pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist expects it to change, the realist adjusts the sails." I am learning to adjust my sails! Try giving your head a shake. If that is your cure At this point you should be willing to try anything! snip buffoonery! OvG You generate a lot of it, certainly. How would you know how much I generate unless you have been doing some CS yourself. Are you kidding?!?! Today's posts alone are enough! However there are many times I lurk, that you would not feel the slightest breeze! I do not feel a compulsion to post where ever my monitor lights up. Praise almighty God and Allah and every other deity and divinity for that! One thing about hoot owls, is that they fly very quietly, and their prey only knows about their presense when it is to late! OvO I picture you more as a dumbo (the flying elephant) than a hoot owl. Although perhaps a dumbo that hoots is an even better fit. |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:53:21 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 11:31 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 21:18:17 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 8:18 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:57:57 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 6:07 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:50:28 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip The point is that if one must in fact rely on the rudder, one is at risk, not only of the rudder malfunctioning or getting broken (e.g. people who do things like crossing the Atlantic sometimes have to make emergency landings in places that have rocks eh?) or of being in conditions where a rudder is not going to perform well (e.g. with waves that result in the rear of the boat actually being out of the water at times). I did not say that my Folbot or Klepper cannot be paddled without the rudder, just that it is easier with, and certainly when sailing. Though I did find out one day, having forgotten to deploy the rudder, that you can sort of even sail without a rudder. You just spend more time going sideways when you try to turn. As far as being at risk, on a transAtlantic crossing, every moment would be fraught with risk, though once away from land, a rough landing would be the least of my concerns. I read of one kayaker who became the play toy of a lonely Orca who pushed him around for a couple of days until it got tired of the game. To say nothing of big storm waves, cold, wet, etc. Maybe we should start a thread warning all the newbies of the dangers of a transAtlantic crossing, inorder to save those that might venture out! I expect that rudders would not be high on the list! Thus the idea that a particular paddle craft will only function when the rudder is deployed is rather scary - and indicative of a fool holding the paddle, imo. Again you are correct, that if a particular paddle craft will only function when the rudder is deployed, that would be a scary scenario! I know of no such kayaks that will only function with the rudder deployed though. Maybe you could make a list, of such kayaks, and we could warn the newbies to stay away from them! Note I did not say function efficiently! I expect that I could take any kayak you come up with, and match it with an expert paddler, who could make it stand up and be counted. Granted some newbie may have their hands full, and be in some difficulty. But that would more than likely be the case with a well balanced, finely tuned kayak in the hands of a newbie as well, rudder or no rudder. snip Now would that not have been just as easy to say at the time Bits ask his question, as to be impertinent and rude! I thought from his question, that he was sincerely interested in your background, and would have gone on to have a constructive conversation with you. It's possible, I really don't know. Regarding the facination with you, it has more to do with your personality than your person. You probably have much to offer in experiences as you demonstrate above, so why so impertinent? Who the hell are you calling impertinent, you vacuous twit! I called you impertinent and rude, which I thought I made quite clear! There was nothing vacuous about it. snip At this point you should be willing to try anything! I am, I am trying to carry on a conversation with you! snip buffoonery! OvG You generate a lot of it, certainly. How would you know how much I generate unless you have been doing some CS yourself. Are you kidding?!?! Today's posts alone are enough! I have only posted to your queries, directed to me! Tired of my replies, stop the queries! Feed me bull, I will throw it back at you. Treat me with respect, and you will get respect! However there are many times I lurk, that you would not feel the slightest breeze! I do not feel a compulsion to post where ever my monitor lights up. Praise almighty God and Allah and every other deity and divinity for that! You should try it, it feels good from this side too, and I am sure that others would break into the Halleleujah Chorus upon your abstinance! But be careful of praising God, it could be habit forming! One thing about hoot owls, is that they fly very quietly, and their prey only knows about their presense when it is to late! OvO I picture you more as a dumbo (the flying elephant) than a hoot owl. Although perhaps a dumbo that hoots is an even better fit. And I picture you as King Kong, crashing around, with no real understanding of the big city life, but beating his chest, and screaming his fears, to intimidate those whom he is willing to crush --- King Kong Kman! RkyMtnHootOwl zvz |
add a rudder to a kayak?
"Rick Donnelly" wrote in message . net... ...stuff deleted Oh God, this old saw again. LOL Shortly after the last round of this argument, a good friend and fellow kayaker came to visit me here in Hawaii. He has spent lots of time on the water, the inland water, kayaking. He's a big, strong guy like me, but has very strong opinions against rudders: "if you know how to paddle, you don't need one." We are all entitled to our opinion. I have paddled plenty of miles before I first used a rudder. Now all my kayaks that can support a rudder have a rudder. And when I hear someone say: "if you know how to paddled..." I just smile. So I took my bud out on the open ocean. The first day was "kona:" no winds. He did fine and really enjoyed surfing the swells. The second day the Trade Winds were back and blowing a good 25 mph. Plus, there was a 4 ft swell from the NE. As I rigged the boats, my buddy insisted that I remove the rudder peddles on his boat because: "they get in the way." I pointed out that with conditions the way they were, his decision would be final. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to re-install the peddles while at sea. We headed out into the wind and he did fine for the first leg of the journey. It wasn't until we turned and put the wind at our left back-quadrant that his problems began. And did he have problems. For lunch, we hauled up on an islet. He complained about his ability to track and that his one arm was exhausted. I offered to re-install the rudder peddles and told him that if he ever felt in trouble, just holler, and I'd throw him a line but I knew his ego would never allow either. For the last leg of the trip, the wind was off the back right. My buddy struggled the whole way back to keep his boat from turning sideways in the troughs. As we pulled up at the launch, he complained of his now sore other arm and made this confession: "Maybe I'm going to have to re-think this whole rudder thing." LOL |
add a rudder to a kayak?
RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:53:21 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 11:31 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 21:18:17 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 8:18 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:57:57 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 6:07 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:50:28 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip The point is that if one must in fact rely on the rudder, one is at risk, not only of the rudder malfunctioning or getting broken (e.g. people who do things like crossing the Atlantic sometimes have to make emergency landings in places that have rocks eh?) or of being in conditions where a rudder is not going to perform well (e.g. with waves that result in the rear of the boat actually being out of the water at times). I did not say that my Folbot or Klepper cannot be paddled without the rudder, just that it is easier with, and certainly when sailing. If you don't need to rely on the rudder to paddle effectively in any conditions, then there's no problem. If you do, imo that is a problem. Who the hell are you calling impertinent, you vacuous twit! I called you impertinent and rude, which I thought I made quite clear! There was nothing vacuous about it. You're right. You were only being a twit. At this point you should be willing to try anything! I am, I am trying to carry on a conversation with you! Agh. Why me!?!? snip buffoonery! OvG You generate a lot of it, certainly. How would you know how much I generate unless you have been doing some CS yourself. Are you kidding?!?! Today's posts alone are enough! I have only posted to your queries, directed to me! Did I say otherwise? Tired of my replies, stop the queries! If I don't want to reply, I certainly won't. Feed me bull, I will throw it back at you. I've yet to see much of anything else from you, regardless of your target. Treat me with respect, and you will get respect! I'm not concerned about this. Or any of the above. I have no idea why you are rambling on about all of it, but then, that's what you do. However there are many times I lurk, that you would not feel the slightest breeze! I do not feel a compulsion to post where ever my monitor lights up. Praise almighty God and Allah and every other deity and divinity for that! You should try it, it feels good from this side too, and I am sure that others would break into the Halleleujah Chorus upon your abstinance! But be careful of praising God, it could be habit forming! I'm going to pray to God and Allah and all the rest to turn you into a coherent communicator, and if it happens, I'm converting to every religion on earth. One thing about hoot owls, is that they fly very quietly, and their prey only knows about their presense when it is to late! OvO I picture you more as a dumbo (the flying elephant) than a hoot owl. Although perhaps a dumbo that hoots is an even better fit. And I picture you as King Kong, crashing around, with no real understanding of the big city life 1) What is the relevance of my ability to understand big city life? 2) What is the source of your opinion about my understanding of big city life? but beating his chest, and screaming his fears What would the fears be? to intimidate those whom he is willing to crush --- King Kong Kman! I'd prefer not to be the KKK if you please :-/ RkyMtnHootOwl zvz |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On 5 Dec 2005 08:30:14 -0800, KMAN wrote:
RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:53:21 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip At this point you should be willing to try anything! I am, I am trying to carry on a conversation with you! Agh. Why me!?!? Because it is such a hoot!!! snip I'm not concerned about this. Or any of the above. I have no idea why you are rambling on about all of it, but then, that's what you do. Still takes two to Tango! snip I'm going to pray to God and Allah and all the rest to turn you into a coherent communicator, and if it happens, I'm converting to every religion on earth. Where do I sign you up? snip And I picture you as King Kong, crashing around, with no real understanding of the big city life 1) What is the relevance of my ability to understand big city life? King Kong, understood the Jungle and how to get along with his neighbors, but when brought to the city, he just crashed around, breaking things, because he did not understand the urban jungle. 2) What is the source of your opinion about my understanding of big city life? All the crashing around! but beating his chest, and screaming his fears What would the fears be? You tell us! What are you afraid of? to intimidate those whom he is willing to crush --- King Kong Kman! I'd prefer not to be the KKK if you please :-/ RkyMtnHootOwl zvz Yes, I thought that had a nice fit to it, K-K-Kman, the man of mystery, hiding under his bedsheets! And you are getting quicker on the pick up, so there still may be hope for you! How are you coming on that list of dangerous Kayaks, and places not to go if you are a newbie? RkyMtnHootOwl OvG |
add a rudder to a kayak?
RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 08:30:14 -0800, KMAN wrote: I'm not concerned about this. Or any of the above. I have no idea why you are rambling on about all of it, but then, that's what you do. Still takes two to Tango! Again, no idea how this comment relates to what is being discussed. snip I'm going to pray to God and Allah and all the rest to turn you into a coherent communicator, and if it happens, I'm converting to every religion on earth. Where do I sign you up? I'll sign myself up. But judging by your Tango comment above, I don't think I'll be converting anytime soon. And I picture you as King Kong, crashing around, with no real understanding of the big city life 1) What is the relevance of my ability to understand big city life? King Kong, understood the Jungle and how to get along with his neighbors, but when brought to the city, he just crashed around, breaking things, because he did not understand the urban jungle. Hm. I'm not sure that's exactly the message of the movie. but beating his chest, and screaming his fears What would the fears be? You tell us! What are you afraid of? Religious fundamentalism, mostly. Why? to intimidate those whom he is willing to crush --- King Kong Kman! I'd prefer not to be the KKK if you please :-/ RkyMtnHootOwl zvz Yes, I thought that had a nice fit to it, K-K-Kman, the man of mystery, hiding under his bedsheets! And you are getting quicker on the pick up, so there still may be hope for you! How are you coming on that list of dangerous Kayaks Just yours, so far. and places not to go if you are a newbie? Avoid Niagara Falls. |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On 5 Dec 2005 10:08:22 -0800, KMAN wrote:
RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 08:30:14 -0800, KMAN wrote: snip How are you coming on that list of dangerous Kayaks Just yours, so far. Now you already screwed up the list! I said dangerous kayaks. Have you even seen a Folbot or Klepper, to know what they are? and places not to go if you are a newbie? Avoid Niagara Falls. I expect you are right on here. Have they actually lost newbies over the falls? Seems most would figure out that is not a good place to go just from the roaring sound! Such a short list! Even newbies should be able to figure it out so far! However, being the great communicator that you are, if the list gets much longer, we will need you to write an instruction book on how to read the list! RkyMtnHootOwl OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
RkyMtnHootOwl wrote:
On 5 Dec 2005 10:08:22 -0800, KMAN wrote: RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 08:30:14 -0800, KMAN wrote: snip How are you coming on that list of dangerous Kayaks Just yours, so far. Now you already screwed up the list! I said dangerous kayaks. Have you even seen a Folbot or Klepper, to know what they are? Oh, indeed. I would categorize any kayak with you at the helm as dangerous. My god, just imagine if you had to communicate with another kayaker for safety reasons! They'd die of old age before figuring out what you were trying to say. and places not to go if you are a newbie? Avoid Niagara Falls. I expect you are right on here. Have they actually lost newbies over the falls? Seems most would figure out that is not a good place to go just from the roaring sound! See, there's a perfect example of newbie error. By the time you can hear the roar of the falls it is often (if not always) too late. Such a short list! How many did you want? Even newbies should be able to figure it out so far! However, being the great communicator that you are, if the list gets much longer, we will need you to write an instruction book on how to read the list! Thank you for remaining incoherent. At least you are consistent. |
add a rudder to a kayak?
Satan wrote: "Rick Donnelly" wrote in message . net... ...stuff deleted Oh God, this old saw again. LOL Shortly after the last round of this argument, a good friend and fellow kayaker came to visit me here in Hawaii. He has spent lots of time on the water, the inland water, kayaking. He's a big, strong guy like me, but has very strong opinions against rudders: "if you know how to paddle, you don't need one." We are all entitled to our opinion. I have paddled plenty of miles before I first used a rudder. Now all my kayaks that can support a rudder have a rudder. And when I hear someone say: "if you know how to paddled..." I just smile. So I took my bud out on the open ocean. The first day was "kona:" no winds. He did fine and really enjoyed surfing the swells. The second day the Trade Winds were back and blowing a good 25 mph. Plus, there was a 4 ft swell from the NE. As I rigged the boats, my buddy insisted that I remove the rudder peddles on his boat because: "they get in the way." I pointed out that with conditions the way they were, his decision would be final. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to re-install the peddles while at sea. We headed out into the wind and he did fine for the first leg of the journey. It wasn't until we turned and put the wind at our left back-quadrant that his problems began. And did he have problems. For lunch, we hauled up on an islet. He complained about his ability to track and that his one arm was exhausted. I offered to re-install the rudder peddles and told him that if he ever felt in trouble, just holler, and I'd throw him a line but I knew his ego would never allow either. For the last leg of the trip, the wind was off the back right. My buddy struggled the whole way back to keep his boat from turning sideways in the troughs. As we pulled up at the launch, he complained of his now sore other arm and made this confession: "Maybe I'm going to have to re-think this whole rudder thing." LOL Maybe he needs to learn how to paddle using more than his arms...lots of scrawnier people could manage much better (without a rudder) using superior technique. |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On 5 Dec 2005 11:31:07 -0800, KMAN wrote:
RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 10:08:22 -0800, KMAN wrote: RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 08:30:14 -0800, KMAN wrote: snip How are you coming on that list of dangerous Kayaks Just yours, so far. Now you already screwed up the list! I said dangerous kayaks. Have you even seen a Folbot or Klepper, to know what they are? Oh, indeed. I would categorize any kayak with you at the helm as dangerous. My god, just imagine if you had to communicate with another kayaker for safety reasons! All I do is give a little "hoot" or a big "HOOT/HOOT" on my horn, and others get out of my way, no problem! They'd die of old age before figuring out what you were trying to say. Are you dying of old age! Please God, no, he's so young! He still has too many newbies to save! And besides, I was just getting to like the guy! and places not to go if you are a newbie? Avoid Niagara Falls. I expect you are right on here. Have they actually lost newbies over the falls? Seems most would figure out that is not a good place to go just from the roaring sound! See, there's a perfect example of newbie error. By the time you can hear the roar of the falls it is often (if not always) too late. Thats another reason to not make the list too long. I can see the headlines! "Newbie goes over Niagara Falls while reading list!" Such a short list! How many did you want? 20/category Sounds like a good number to start with! With all the newbies buying Christmas kayaks, we should make the list quick and check it twice! Even newbies should be able to figure it out so far! However, being the great communicator that you are, if the list gets much longer, we will need you to write an instruction book on how to read the list! Thank you for remaining incoherent. At least you are consistent. As incoherent as I am, you would sure not want me writing the instruction booklet on how newbies can safely paddle! However, I am sure that you are imminently qualified! K-K-Kman, The Nuttie Newbie Nannie! RkyMtnHootOwl OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
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add a rudder to a kayak?
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:15:30 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/5/05 7:09 PM: snip All I can say in response (accessible only to Seinfeld fans) is: "Get well, get well soon, we with you to get well..." I am well, very well, longlastingly well, and I will continue well with ... OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:15:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/5/05 7:09 PM: snip All I can say in response (accessible only to Seinfeld fans) is: "Get well, get well soon, we with you to get well..." I am well, very well, longlastingly well, and I will continue well with ... OvO I know that you believe this. That is what makes it all so tragic. |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On 6 Dec 2005 07:51:34 -0800, KMAN wrote:
RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:15:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/5/05 7:09 PM: snip All I can say in response (accessible only to Seinfeld fans) is: "Get well, get well soon, we with you to get well..." I am well, very well, longlastingly well, and I will continue well with ... OvO I know that you believe this. That is what makes it all so tragic. Tragic to whom? |
add a rudder to a kayak?
RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On 6 Dec 2005 07:51:34 -0800, KMAN wrote: RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:15:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/5/05 7:09 PM: snip All I can say in response (accessible only to Seinfeld fans) is: "Get well, get well soon, we with you to get well..." I am well, very well, longlastingly well, and I will continue well with ... OvO I know that you believe this. That is what makes it all so tragic. Tragic to whom? It's all part of the tragedy that you don't know the answer. Know that I am praying for you. |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On 6 Dec 2005 10:17:33 -0800, KMAN wrote:
RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On 6 Dec 2005 07:51:34 -0800, KMAN wrote: RkyMtnHootOwl wrote: On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:15:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/5/05 7:09 PM: snip All I can say in response (accessible only to Seinfeld fans) is: "Get well, get well soon, we with you to get well..." I am well, very well, longlastingly well, and I will continue well with ... OvO I know that you believe this. That is what makes it all so tragic. Tragic to whom? It's all part of the tragedy that you don't know the answer. Know that I am praying for you. I'm touched, I did not know you cared so much! Especially for you to be praying! What sacrifice! Of course, that depends on who you are praying to? What answer are you looking for? OvO |
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