"PocoLoco" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:15:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


A Bully of Bunnies!

What's your problem with rototillers? They make gardening much easier.
You
can rent a commercial grade tiller down here for about $35 for a day,
and
that's enough time to turn over the dirt for really large garden.


For a number of reasons.

1) You're not supposed to turn over the soil. The soil exists in definite
layers. The layer at the top BELONGS at the top, not buried or mixed with
the layer that's a foot deeper. It contains more of the microorganisms
that
make organic gardening work so well. If you screw it up, it can take 2-3
seasons to recover, and there's NO way to speed up the process using soil
amendments.

2) If you're making new beds where there's now some lawn, the goal is to
remove the turf, not chop it into a million pieces and bury some of it
like
a rototiller does. Otherwise, the grass will be popping up all over the
place a month later. You have to slice the turf into manageable pieces,
slide under it with a fork, and shake off the soil. It's easy if you get
the
right spade & fork, like a Smith & Hawken or something like that. Sounds
like a lot of work, but you're gonna end up doing it anyway if you
rototill.
At least with hand tools, you know you've gotten 99% of the grass because
it
never gets hidden under the surface.

Once the garden's been prepared, it NEVER gets turned over - just
loosened
slightly with a fork in the spring. I injured my shoulder back in March,
but
I was able to do this job one-handed because the soil was perfect.


You mean all that time I spent plowing the cut corn stalks under the
ground
(about 9" deep) was *wrong*. You could make a lot of farmers happy if you
could
convince them that plowing was a waste of time!
--
John H

Sometimes they have no choice, due to the scale of their operations. And,
some of them don't plow as deeply as they did 50 or 75 years ago. Farmers
are infinitely adaptable. They've learned to use some organic techniques,
especially when the new ways cost them nothing but a minor adjustment.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:37:47 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"PocoLoco" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:15:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


A Bully of Bunnies!

What's your problem with rototillers? They make gardening much easier.
You
can rent a commercial grade tiller down here for about $35 for a day,
and
that's enough time to turn over the dirt for really large garden.


For a number of reasons.

1) You're not supposed to turn over the soil. The soil exists in definite
layers. The layer at the top BELONGS at the top, not buried or mixed with
the layer that's a foot deeper. It contains more of the microorganisms
that
make organic gardening work so well. If you screw it up, it can take 2-3
seasons to recover, and there's NO way to speed up the process using soil
amendments.

2) If you're making new beds where there's now some lawn, the goal is to
remove the turf, not chop it into a million pieces and bury some of it
like
a rototiller does. Otherwise, the grass will be popping up all over the
place a month later. You have to slice the turf into manageable pieces,
slide under it with a fork, and shake off the soil. It's easy if you get
the
right spade & fork, like a Smith & Hawken or something like that. Sounds
like a lot of work, but you're gonna end up doing it anyway if you
rototill.
At least with hand tools, you know you've gotten 99% of the grass because
it
never gets hidden under the surface.

Once the garden's been prepared, it NEVER gets turned over - just
loosened
slightly with a fork in the spring. I injured my shoulder back in March,
but
I was able to do this job one-handed because the soil was perfect.


You mean all that time I spent plowing the cut corn stalks under the
ground
(about 9" deep) was *wrong*. You could make a lot of farmers happy if you
could
convince them that plowing was a waste of time!
--
John H

Sometimes they have no choice, due to the scale of their operations. And,
some of them don't plow as deeply as they did 50 or 75 years ago. Farmers
are infinitely adaptable. They've learned to use some organic techniques,
especially when the new ways cost them nothing but a minor adjustment.


Farmers will grow clover and just plow it under. They did this to help fertilize
the soil. Farmers today still plow their fields, turning the earth and putting
the top about 9" underground.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"PocoLoco" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:37:47 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"PocoLoco" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:15:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


A Bully of Bunnies!

What's your problem with rototillers? They make gardening much easier.
You
can rent a commercial grade tiller down here for about $35 for a day,
and
that's enough time to turn over the dirt for really large garden.


For a number of reasons.

1) You're not supposed to turn over the soil. The soil exists in
definite
layers. The layer at the top BELONGS at the top, not buried or mixed
with
the layer that's a foot deeper. It contains more of the microorganisms
that
make organic gardening work so well. If you screw it up, it can take 2-3
seasons to recover, and there's NO way to speed up the process using
soil
amendments.

2) If you're making new beds where there's now some lawn, the goal is to
remove the turf, not chop it into a million pieces and bury some of it
like
a rototiller does. Otherwise, the grass will be popping up all over the
place a month later. You have to slice the turf into manageable pieces,
slide under it with a fork, and shake off the soil. It's easy if you get
the
right spade & fork, like a Smith & Hawken or something like that. Sounds
like a lot of work, but you're gonna end up doing it anyway if you
rototill.
At least with hand tools, you know you've gotten 99% of the grass
because
it
never gets hidden under the surface.

Once the garden's been prepared, it NEVER gets turned over - just
loosened
slightly with a fork in the spring. I injured my shoulder back in March,
but
I was able to do this job one-handed because the soil was perfect.


You mean all that time I spent plowing the cut corn stalks under the
ground
(about 9" deep) was *wrong*. You could make a lot of farmers happy if
you
could
convince them that plowing was a waste of time!
--
John H

Sometimes they have no choice, due to the scale of their operations. And,
some of them don't plow as deeply as they did 50 or 75 years ago. Farmers
are infinitely adaptable. They've learned to use some organic techniques,
especially when the new ways cost them nothing but a minor adjustment.


Farmers will grow clover and just plow it under. They did this to help
fertilize
the soil. Farmers today still plow their fields, turning the earth and
putting
the top about 9" underground.
--
John H

We're using "plowing" as a generic term for "working the soil" between
plantings. The point I'm making is that they've learned to not plow as
deeply as they used to, unless they're preparing a totally new field that's
badly compacted, or laden with too much clay. For the latter condition, it's
an effort to open up pathways for rain and organic wastes to penetrate. In
colder climates, repeated freezing and thawing can help break up hard soils.
But, once a field reaches a certain level of tilth, they do not cultivate
deeply.