... Anyone that is educated and makes good money is either a
republican or a libertarian.

Really? Then why are so many of the pro-Bush/Cheney crowd such ignorant
bigots? You might check the educational system rankings of various
Red/Blue states, too.


Dan J.S. wrote:
Yes, liberal degrees maybe. You will note that most MBA holders are
republicans.

And you consider this a good thing? To most people, an MBA represents a
person who is skilled at ways of milking profit while destroying
productivity... the guy who outsources your job.

... Anyone making any money
will vote republican.

Really? I make pretty good money and I have not voted Republican in a
national election in years.

In short, your expressed views are simply a prejudiced denial of fact...
is this a good basis for decision making IYHO?

... It doesn't matter if they believe in the Iraq war, or
abortion, or anything else, they just care about paying less in taxes.
Everything else is secondary. The people that run the financial institutions
in the U.S. will vote republican.

In which case, they deserve to suffer when all the bubbles burst.
Unfortunately, the rest of us are being dragged down too.

DSK

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...


Just what rec.boats needs, another anti-intellectual idiot.

What do you expect when the Lord in Chief and his minions frown on
learning?


I got my MBA from Northwestern University, and the teachers there were
all hands on. Anyone that is educated and makes good money is either a
republican or a libertarian. The few that are democrats have another
agenda, like politics and power. You can bash Bush all the time, but in
the end it's all about paying less in taxes. Something the republicans
promise and deliver.

Have you ever dealt with the financials for a company that intentionally
lowers its income (perhaps by lowering prices due to competition), and
at the same time announces a new expenditure that it will only describe
as "a lot", and cannot give any estimate of when the expenditure will
cease? Instead, it says "We can always issue more bonds".

Would you buy stock in a company like that? Even better: Would you like
to be the spokesman at the shareholders meeting, shortly after these
financial antics were announced?


Sounds like the company wants to go bankrupt - and wants to give
preference to the bond holders by sucking out the cash. Keep in mind,
last 3 years of corporate corruptions have put in place rules that will
effectively protect shareholders from this.


You're right. The company wants to go bankrupt. Now: Why are you
comfortable with our government doing this? And, please don't say
"lowering taxes increases revenue at the other end", because there's no
linear connection between the two. Correlation, maybe, but you don't make
financial plans based on correlation, just as you don't invest money in
stocks if you must have the cash in a year without any risk.


I agree that we are spending too much. I honestly do. Is the war in Iraq
necessary, I don't know. Should we support the troops that are there, hell
yeah (so yes, i am basically contradicting my first sentence). However,
there are a few things in place that will pay down this debt. Keep in mind,
when we came out of WWII, it was the best decade the U.S. has seen. I do
not believe that the U.S. is anywhere close to bankruptcy, and I am hoping
that the administration will use the proceeds from oil sales in Iraq to pay
some of it down. We are also seeing things on the business side that are
moving. This year has been one of the best years for venture capital. More
people are starting their own business. Yes manufacturing is going over
seas, but more and more services industries are popping up. Things are going
well.

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...


Just what rec.boats needs, another anti-intellectual idiot.

What do you expect when the Lord in Chief and his minions frown on
learning?


I got my MBA from Northwestern University, and the teachers there were
all hands on. Anyone that is educated and makes good money is either a
republican or a libertarian. The few that are democrats have another
agenda, like politics and power. You can bash Bush all the time, but
in the end it's all about paying less in taxes. Something the
republicans promise and deliver.

Have you ever dealt with the financials for a company that
intentionally lowers its income (perhaps by lowering prices due to
competition), and at the same time announces a new expenditure that it
will only describe as "a lot", and cannot give any estimate of when the
expenditure will cease? Instead, it says "We can always issue more
bonds".

Would you buy stock in a company like that? Even better: Would you like
to be the spokesman at the shareholders meeting, shortly after these
financial antics were announced?


Sounds like the company wants to go bankrupt - and wants to give
preference to the bond holders by sucking out the cash. Keep in mind,
last 3 years of corporate corruptions have put in place rules that will
effectively protect shareholders from this.


You're right. The company wants to go bankrupt. Now: Why are you
comfortable with our government doing this? And, please don't say
"lowering taxes increases revenue at the other end", because there's no
linear connection between the two. Correlation, maybe, but you don't make
financial plans based on correlation, just as you don't invest money in
stocks if you must have the cash in a year without any risk.


I agree that we are spending too much. I honestly do. Is the war in Iraq
necessary, I don't know. Should we support the troops that are there, hell
yeah (so yes, i am basically contradicting my first sentence). However,
there are a few things in place that will pay down this debt. Keep in
mind, when we came out of WWII, it was the best decade the U.S. has seen.
I do not believe that the U.S. is anywhere close to bankruptcy, and I am
hoping that the administration will use the proceeds from oil sales in
Iraq to pay some of it down. We are also seeing things on the business
side that are moving. This year has been one of the best years for venture
capital. More people are starting their own business. Yes manufacturing is
going over seas, but more and more services industries are popping up.
Things are going well.


Dan, I applaud you for working past the personal attacks and insults
directed at you and others by Krause and Kanter in this thread. It is a
shame they have to rely on such childish behavior rather than partaking in a
discussion in an adult way.

My hats off to you Dan.

"*JimH*" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...


Just what rec.boats needs, another anti-intellectual idiot.

What do you expect when the Lord in Chief and his minions frown on
learning?


I got my MBA from Northwestern University, and the teachers there
were all hands on. Anyone that is educated and makes good money is
either a republican or a libertarian. The few that are democrats have
another agenda, like politics and power. You can bash Bush all the
time, but in the end it's all about paying less in taxes. Something
the republicans promise and deliver.

Have you ever dealt with the financials for a company that
intentionally lowers its income (perhaps by lowering prices due to
competition), and at the same time announces a new expenditure that it
will only describe as "a lot", and cannot give any estimate of when
the expenditure will cease? Instead, it says "We can always issue more
bonds".

Would you buy stock in a company like that? Even better: Would you
like to be the spokesman at the shareholders meeting, shortly after
these financial antics were announced?


Sounds like the company wants to go bankrupt - and wants to give
preference to the bond holders by sucking out the cash. Keep in mind,
last 3 years of corporate corruptions have put in place rules that will
effectively protect shareholders from this.


You're right. The company wants to go bankrupt. Now: Why are you
comfortable with our government doing this? And, please don't say
"lowering taxes increases revenue at the other end", because there's no
linear connection between the two. Correlation, maybe, but you don't
make financial plans based on correlation, just as you don't invest
money in stocks if you must have the cash in a year without any risk.


I agree that we are spending too much. I honestly do. Is the war in Iraq
necessary, I don't know. Should we support the troops that are there,
hell yeah (so yes, i am basically contradicting my first sentence).
However, there are a few things in place that will pay down this debt.
Keep in mind, when we came out of WWII, it was the best decade the U.S.
has seen. I do not believe that the U.S. is anywhere close to bankruptcy,
and I am hoping that the administration will use the proceeds from oil
sales in Iraq to pay some of it down. We are also seeing things on the
business side that are moving. This year has been one of the best years
for venture capital. More people are starting their own business. Yes
manufacturing is going over seas, but more and more services industries
are popping up. Things are going well.


Dan, I applaud you for working past the personal attacks and insults
directed at you and others by Krause and Kanter in this thread. It is a
shame they have to rely on such childish behavior rather than partaking in
a discussion in an adult way.

My hats off to you Dan.


You must have a macro set up on your computer that makes comments on
personal attacks. Where do you see me being rude to Dan? I simply provided a
hypothetical situation involving a corporation, just as I'm sure he and his
teachers did when he studied for his MBA. He responded in a constructive
way, as expected.

Let me guess: Do you have problems with hypothetical examples, as Dave Hall
used to? Remember how he was allergic to the "straw man", as he called it?
You too?

"DSK" wrote in message
...

To most people, an MBA represents a person who is skilled at ways of
milking profit while destroying productivity... the guy who outsources
your job.

What??? Slow down, Doug. You're starting to make generalizations that are
unbecoming to your usual scintillating clarity.

*JimH* wrote:

Dan, I applaud you for working past the personal attacks and insults
directed at you and others by Krause and Kanter in this thread. It is a
shame they have to rely on such childish behavior rather than partaking in a
discussion in an adult way.

My hats off to you Dan.

Now how about YOU stopping your childish insults, and petty name
calling? Any and every discussion I enter, here you come, with Fritz's
nose firmly planted in your ass. You've done that to any and every
thread that I'm involved in Jim. As you stated, it's a shame that you
"rely on such childish behavior".

Harry,
Was the campus as Kansas liberal? Since you received your undergraduate
degree from Kansas, didn't they recommend you get your masters from a
different school? I guess if you could not get into a better school, what
the heck.




"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message
...
Dan J.S. wrote:
I got my MBA from Northwestern University, and the teachers there
were all hands on. Anyone that is educated and makes good money is
either a republican or a libertarian.
Really? Then why are so many of the pro-Bush/Cheney crowd such
ignorant bigots? You might check the educational system rankings of
various Red/Blue states, too.
Yes, liberal degrees maybe.
Liberal degrees?


Liberal arts, etc


I doubt you even know what the "liberal arts" are. They ain't necessarily
"liberal."

--
Let's pray the United States survives the rest of Bush's term.

Dan J.S. wrote:
I agree that we are spending too much. I honestly do.

And yet, you seem to be insisting that Bush/Cheney & Co are managing the
country well.

... Is the war in Iraq
necessary, I don't know. Should we support the troops that are there, hell
yeah (so yes, i am basically contradicting my first sentence).

Not really. There is a big difference between supporting (ie believing &
cheering) the person(s) who started the war & are profiting from it; and
supporting the people who are ordered to go fight it.


... However,
there are a few things in place that will pay down this debt. Keep in mind,
when we came out of WWII, it was the best decade the U.S. has seen.

That is a lie. There was a pretty serious recession & unemployment
problems in 1945 & '46. However, a lot of people on your side will tell
you that FDR was a horrible incompetent traitor and the New Deal 'didn't
work' so I suppose it's a relatively minor quibble.

... I do
not believe that the U.S. is anywhere close to bankruptcy

I don't either, but we're racing towards it and we have to stop at some
point.

... and I am hoping
that the administration will use the proceeds from oil sales in Iraq to pay
some of it down.

How? The oil fields are not producing and any potential profits are
being sucked up by hiring new security forces while failing to rebuild
infrastructure as fast as the insurgents blow it up.


... We are also seeing things on the business side that are
moving. This year has been one of the best years for venture capital.

After 5 years, don't you think it's about time???

DSK

wrote in message
ups.com...


*JimH* wrote:

Dan, I applaud you for working past the personal attacks and insults
directed at you and others by Krause and Kanter in this thread. It is a
shame they have to rely on such childish behavior rather than partaking
in a
discussion in an adult way.

My hats off to you Dan.

Now how about YOU stopping your childish insults, and petty name
calling? Any and every discussion I enter, here you come,

Unlike yours, my posts are generally on topic and lack personal attacks and
insults Kevin.

Harry,
When you were younger, did you find you had to make up stories to get the
other kids to like you?


"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Real Name wrote:
Harry,


Bite me, asshole!



--
Let's pray the United States survives the rest of Bush's term.

Gene Kearns wrote:
Generally, I disregard, via filter, this OT crap, but I've cut the
filter off for a few days to diagnose some network issues and this one
caught my eye, as it singles out my profession, and is egregiously
incorrect and biased.

"Academia is a collective term for the scientific and cultural
community engaged in higher education and research, taken as a whole.
(1)" and is, by definition, a general term.

I hold degrees in the Social Sciences and in Technology and I can tell
you from experience that those Liberal Arts teachers tend to be, uh,
well, liberal..... and those tending to the technical subjects tend to
be more conservative. There is no one *academia* that can be dissected
for the one and true belief system of "academics"..

Agreed. A very good point.



The preponderance of my co-workers are retired military. Guess where
they fall on you alleged continuum?

Actually, this is a case of stereotyping too. I know a large number of
retired military quite well; many of them are conservatives, some are
liberal... one trend I would state with some confidence is that pretty
much all the liberals dislike President Bush, about half the
conservatives think he's doing a poor job running the country but prefer
him to any possible liberal, and they *all* seem to despise Vice
President Cheney. So, one cannot over-generalize even on the basis of
core political beliefs.


Posting straw-man foolishness merely serves to promote trolling and
other venues of ignorance and hate.

Well said. Please observe that in my OT posts, a recurring theme is that
people should be HONEST in their statements. A political belief and/or
religion which cannot withstand collision with the facts is too flimsy
to work out in the real world.


Tell me about your boat......


They say a picture's worth a thousand words...
http://community.webshots.com/album/63279185YQtgSA

Unlike most people on this NG, I don't have an outboard and don't fish.
It's my excuse for posting too much about politics.

Regards
Doug King

The preponderance of my co-workers are retired military. Guess where
they fall on you alleged continuum?

Actually, this is a case of stereotyping too.


Gene Kearns wrote:
Oh, not really.... what you read was in the mind of the beholder,
since I made no declaration..... however....


True, true... I was assuming I knew what you would have said next; but
have been in the same place a fair amount of the time & and have
probably made a lot of the same observations.


Damn nice boat..... and Oriental is a neat place to be. If you know a
local Viet Nam era spook by the surname of "Carter," he and his better
half have been asking me to visit the area. I might just do that
during the upcoming holidays....


I b'lieve I have met the gentleman; Oriental is a changing place...
former working town becoming (in the final stages of becoming) a retiree
& tourist spot. It's kept a lot of it's charm though. If you come up to
Oriental and/or New Bern, please let me know and we'll be glad to
welcome you, maybe go for a boat ride.

Fair Skies
Doug King

Argyle wrote:
... A pro Life Christian I am.


Maybe you can answer this question for me then... Would Jesus lie about
WMDs to start a war so his *former* company could rake in hundreds of
millions of drachmas, or bezants, or denarii?

Maybe He would do so in order to share this wealth with the poor?


Take it or leave it, I don't give a dang what you think. You Canadians have
gone off the deep end in my opinion that is shared by the vast majority of
people in my state.


Another question if you don't mind... is 51% a "vast majority"?

DSK

Argyle wrote:
And your proof of that statement can be found where?

Proof of what 'statement'?

I asked a question.

Bush won by 51%. I wasn't referring to that. Marriage was defined as a union
between a man and a women by 61% of the voters of my state. That is a large
majority.

Uh huh... and it is a "vast majority'? Furthermore, does an 11% majority
justify demonizing all who disagree?

Do you support the 'law of the land' where it concerns abortion?


Just a bit of advice. Don't invest in a home on beautiful beachfront
property. You may lose it to the Donald Trumps of the world thanks to
liberal judges that "legislate from the bench".


Why do you call conservative justices "liberal"? Do you think so little
of Reagan's appointees?

But you appear to support "legislation from the bench" when it is
anti-gay and anti-abortion?

DSK

Argyle wrote:
I must have misunderstood something you said, if so, it was unintended.


OK, want to try again?

Who would Jesus bomb?


Uh huh... and it is a "vast majority'? Furthermore, does an 11% majority
justify demonizing all who disagree?

I try not to demonize but feel strongly about it. Just as I would demonize
those that do not believe in racial equlity.

Demonizing the opposition is a pretty standard tactic for the Christian
Right movement. Maybe you should try to get them to tone it down a bit.



Why do you call conservative justices "liberal"? Do you think so little
of Reagan's appointees?


Who appointed them is not a concern. Their decisions are.


Maybe, after careful study & deliberation, their decisions are wiser
than you give them credit for. Many people criticise Justice O'Connor
for her unwillingness to overturn 'Roe vs Wade.'


But you appear to support "legislation from the bench" when it is
anti-gay and anti-abortion?


No, I don't.

Well, that's good. Maybe you'll be a good influence when discussion
turns to the upcoming battle over Robert's nomination.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Maybe, after careful study & deliberation, their decisions are wiser than
you give them credit for. Many people criticise Justice O'Connor for her
unwillingness to overturn 'Roe vs Wade.'

Sounds to me like she trusts MOST people to make the right decisions for
themselves, with the least amount of government "help". Wait...that sounds
familiar. Isn't that a pillar of conservative thinking?

"Argyle" argyle@nospam wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:21:37 GMT, in rec.boats you wrote:

On 20 Jul 2005 11:14:39 -0700, wrote:

Why are academics so liberal?


Generally, I disregard, via filter, this OT crap, but I've cut the
filter off for a few days to diagnose some network issues and this one
caught my eye, as it singles out my profession, and is egregiously
incorrect and biased.

You seem to always pop in when a liberal position is being criticized.
Seems
as though your filters are set to let liberal posts go through and
conservative posts blocked. Anything anti-liberal catches your attention.

Go back to your academia world. Leave the "real world" to us. We know
better.


Regards,
Argyle

In fairness to Gene, and as he pointed out in his reply to you, he does not
normally partake in OT discussions. Your criticism of him is not true and
is unfair Argyle.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...

and now am
able to enjoy my first love... teaching. For me, academia is a choice,
not a station of last resort.

11 beers for you. :-) Teachers who like to teach are a precious asset. What
do you teach?

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"DSK" wrote in message
...

Maybe, after careful study & deliberation, their decisions are wiser than
you give them credit for. Many people criticise Justice O'Connor for her
unwillingness to overturn 'Roe vs Wade.'

Sounds to me like she trusts MOST people to make the right decisions for
themselves, with the least amount of government "help". Wait...that sounds
familiar. Isn't that a pillar of conservative thinking?


You have put your finger on an important point. Most of today's
"conservatives" are not really conservative. Traditional conservative values
include

- Fiscal responsibility.
- Reluctance to send troops overseas unless really justified.
- Competence.
- Honesty.
- Individual responsibility.
- Individual freedoms and rights.

How do the Bush administration and supporters fare on these measures?

Fiscal responsibility: Rather than "tax and spend" they borrow and spend,
driving deficits and national debt to record levels while providing billions
is tax breaks to the super-wealthy and corporations..

Reluctance to send troops overseas unless really justified: Start an
unjustified and illegal war in Iraq based on a tissue of lies and bad
intelligence. 1700+ American troops dead, untold thousands maimed, more
terrorists now than ever before.

Competence: An astounding degree of incompetence in planning and executing
the "war on terror". Incompetents such as Rice, Wolfowitz promoted.

Honesty: An endless stream of distortions, misrepresentations, and outright
lies on everything from the war, terrorism. the prescription benefit,
climate change - the list goes on and on.

Individual responsibility: Thinks government should be able to tell people
how to run their private lives when it comes to reproduction, medical
marijuana, choosing a spouse, etc.

Individual freedoms and rights: Thinks it's fine to torture people. Thinks
it's fine to arrest American citizens and deny them all constitutional
protections.

Score? 0%. As left-of-center moderate I am ****ed enough at the Bush cabal.
If I were a conservative I would be livid.


Peter Aitken

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...

and now am
able to enjoy my first love... teaching. For me, academia is a choice,
not a station of last resort.

11 beers for you. :-) Teachers who like to teach are a precious asset. What
do you teach?


Hey Doug, did you ever teach your punk son to sober up?

"Peter Aitken" wrote in message
om...

medical marijuana,

Rumor has it that the DEA is taking a close look at chamomile tea, chicken
soup and apple sauce, which it considers to be indicators of a nasty trend
toward self-medication. I'm hoarding ammunition, just in case. Not sure if I
should tip off my former mother-in-law, who, in the past, had a homemade
apple sauce lab operating in her kitchen. Very bad. She was dealing the
stuff to minors, specifically my son when he was little. I wanted to
complain, but she coerced me to keep quiet by babysitting for free. I was
afraid to say anything to the proper authorities.

Peter Aitken wrote:
You have put your finger on an important point. Most of today's
"conservatives" are not really conservative. Traditional conservative values
include

- Fiscal responsibility.
- Reluctance to send troops overseas unless really justified.
- Competence.
- Honesty.
- Individual responsibility.
- Individual freedoms and rights.


Bullseye! A good post, exactly the kind that infuriates the Bush/Cheney
cheerleaders because there is NO answer...

But I am curious, Peter: since you identify yourself as a left-of-center
moderate, do you disagree with any of the above values?

Regards
Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Aitken wrote:
You have put your finger on an important point. Most of today's
"conservatives" are not really conservative. Traditional conservative
values include

- Fiscal responsibility.
- Reluctance to send troops overseas unless really justified.
- Competence.
- Honesty.
- Individual responsibility.
- Individual freedoms and rights.


Bullseye! A good post, exactly the kind that infuriates the Bush/Cheney
cheerleaders because there is NO answer...

But I am curious, Peter: since you identify yourself as a left-of-center
moderate, do you disagree with any of the above values?

Didn't you see the post about his new boat? He fiscally irresponsible. :-)

But I am curious, Peter: since you identify yourself as a left-of-center
moderate, do you disagree with any of the above values?


Doug Kanter wrote:
Didn't you see the post about his new boat? He fiscally irresponsible. :-)


Oh, right... OOPS!

I've avoided the stigma of 'fiscally irresponsible' because I've never
bought a boat at a cost which exceeded my stock portfolio's capital
gains for the year ;)

Can I be in the club?

DSK

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Peter Aitken" wrote in message
om...

medical marijuana,

Rumor has it that the DEA is taking a close look at chamomile tea,
chicken soup and apple sauce, which it considers to be indicators of a
nasty trend toward self-medication. I'm hoarding ammunition, just in
case. Not sure if I should tip off my former mother-in-law, who, in the
past, had a homemade apple sauce lab operating in her kitchen.


How much ammo are you hoarding? I got a "deal" at Natchez some weeks ago,
to go along with a couple of recent purchases.

Ammo's something I always buy from one of the local gun shops. The owner's
done everything possible to keep my business. I like to keep maybe 50,000
rounds of .40 caliber hollow point around the house, just in case. Usually
another 5000 rounds of the cheaper Speer Lawman FMV, for target practice or
neighborhood dogs.

One





Two





Three


ROFL! :-)

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Aitken wrote:
You have put your finger on an important point. Most of today's
"conservatives" are not really conservative. Traditional conservative
values include

- Fiscal responsibility.
- Reluctance to send troops overseas unless really justified.
- Competence.
- Honesty.
- Individual responsibility.
- Individual freedoms and rights.


Bullseye! A good post, exactly the kind that infuriates the Bush/Cheney
cheerleaders because there is NO answer...

But I am curious, Peter: since you identify yourself as a left-of-center
moderate, do you disagree with any of the above values?


In the broad sense I agree with all of them. But then one person's
"Individual freedoms and rights" will be different from another person's. I
could argue one position based on "individual freedoms and rights" and
another person could argue the opposite position also based on "individual
freedoms and rights." It's a complicated business, no? At least it is if you
keep your mind open and think about things. The problem with most Bush
supporters - and some liberals too it must be said - is that their mind is
made up and they are unwilling to consider other possibilities. It's easy to
be dogmatic, but not good for anyone.

Peter Aitken


--
Peter Aitken

"Kevin Noble" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...

and now am
able to enjoy my first love... teaching. For me, academia is a choice,
not a station of last resort.

11 beers for you. :-) Teachers who like to teach are a precious asset.
What
do you teach?


Hey Doug, did you ever teach your punk son to sober up?


Uh oh. The toilet's backed up again.

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Peter Aitken" wrote in message
om...

medical marijuana,
Rumor has it that the DEA is taking a close look at chamomile tea,
chicken soup and apple sauce, which it considers to be indicators of a
nasty trend toward self-medication. I'm hoarding ammunition, just in
case. Not sure if I should tip off my former mother-in-law, who, in the
past, had a homemade apple sauce lab operating in her kitchen.

How much ammo are you hoarding? I got a "deal" at Natchez some weeks
ago, to go along with a couple of recent purchases.

Ammo's something I always buy from one of the local gun shops. The
owner's done everything possible to keep my business. I like to keep
maybe 50,000 rounds of .40 caliber hollow point around the house, just in
case. Usually another 5000 rounds of the cheaper Speer Lawman FMV, for
target practice or neighborhood dogs.

50,000 rounds ??!!!?`

Just in case of what? Are you expecting a horde of Tuuks?

Harry, go back to my original message, and scroll ALL the way to the end.
:-)

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 15:04:03 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..

Maybe, after careful study & deliberation, their decisions are wiser
than
you give them credit for. Many people criticise Justice O'Connor for her
unwillingness to overturn 'Roe vs Wade.'


Justice O'Connor was the progenitor of a number of wise decisions and
she could clearly see beyond pop-politics.

The current terms "liberal" and "conservative" are, in my mind, merely
dogmatic, counterproductive, inaccurate pop-politics terms for groups
for which one either wishes to (1) assign as a reference group or (2)
assign as a group to hate that espouses a belief system of wrong
positions. In popular usage, it makes it easy to separate people out
because there are only two boxes, good guys and bad guys.....
everybody clearly fits in one or the other.

"Counterproductive" is right. Look at my attitudes toward Bush and the war,
and I sound like Abbie Hoffman. Explore my views on guns and law
enforcement, and I sound like a hanging judge. No labels work well.


Sounds to me like she trusts MOST people to make the right decisions for
themselves, with the least amount of government "help". Wait...that sounds
familiar. Isn't that a pillar of conservative thinking?


No, it isn't. It might be an interesting dictionary assignment to look
up "conservative" and see if it means this. Forget the pop-politics
talking points of recent years.

Here's a start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative

Interesting how a certain crowd has latched onto the "less government"
mantra and claimed ownership.

Anyway, I keep maybe a hundred rounds of the fancy .40 cal (because it's
expensive), and couple thousand of the Speer Lawman when I find it on sale
(or when I can find it at all). I'll go through no more than 20-30 rounds a
month. I do more dry fire practice now. Much better for your targeting
acquisition techniques, believe it or not.

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
Anyway, I keep maybe a hundred rounds of the fancy .40 cal (because it's
expensive), and couple thousand of the Speer Lawman when I find it on
sale (or when I can find it at all). I'll go through no more than 20-30
rounds a month. I do more dry fire practice now. Much better for your
targeting acquisition techniques, believe it or not.

I have a few hundred rounds of various shotgun gauges and loads,
and about 3,500 rounds of "other" ammo, including 200 rounds of Swedish
6.5 Mauser I bought for my buddy's 1914 model of that rifle. When we shoot
together out at his place, we take about 10 rounds each out of the Mauser.
It's a wonderful rifle. We've got a 100-yard shooting range out there,
down a gentle slope into a ravine, with a few cords of firewood as a
backstop, and beyond that, a hill.

So many dogs, so little time............

Maybe, after careful study & deliberation, their decisions are wiser than
you give them credit for. Many people criticise Justice O'Connor for her
unwillingness to overturn 'Roe vs Wade.'


Gene Kearns wrote:
Justice O'Connor was the progenitor of a number of wise decisions and
she could clearly see beyond pop-politics.


Agreed... and add that it's rather difficult to criticise most Supreme
Court decisions, much less individual SC judges opinions on them,
without careful study. OTOH it's really easy to holler insults because
the outcome isn't what one might prefer at a glance.


The current terms "liberal" and "conservative" are, in my mind, merely
dogmatic, counterproductive, inaccurate pop-politics terms for groups
for which one either wishes to (1) assign as a reference group or (2)
assign as a group to hate that espouses a belief system of wrong
positions.

Yes, it's particularly funny to see the labels being flung about as
insults when the flinger has no clue... last year, Pat Buchanan was
giving an interview on NPR in which he was quite critical of President
Bush, and some of my ditto-head co-workers were calling him a liberal
whacko.


Doug Kanter wrote:
Sounds to me like she trusts MOST people to make the right decisions for
themselves, with the least amount of government "help". Wait...that sounds
familiar. Isn't that a pillar of conservative thinking?



No, it isn't. It might be an interesting dictionary assignment to look
up "conservative" and see if it means this. Forget the pop-politics
talking points of recent years.

Here's a start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative

Excellent link, although not such a good starting point IMHO because
it's rather complex.

I identify myself as a political conservative because of my belief in a
few conservative core values:

The status quo of social and economic order should
be maintained, or adjusted very slightly, to
meet certain demands. (Note: the corresponding
liberal belief is that the social and
economic order of society is secondary to the
needs of individuals, and that the
status quo should not be respected.) This is
probably the core divider between real
conservatism and liberalism.

Morals are not relative, and principles are not a
matter of inconvenience. In the same light,
hypocrisy regarding morals, ethics, and principle
is one of the most repugnant human failings.

The gov't should be fiscally restrained. The 'power of the purse' shoudl
be held by representatives directly responsible to the citizens (note:
300 years ago this was a dangerously liberal belief).


Every right comes at a cost, and every priviledge
carries a corresponding obligation.

The country's military should be maintained or
increased in strength to the extent of
being able to defeat any realistic threats.

Criminals guilty of certain heinous acts deserve
the death penalty.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...767265668660c4

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Maybe, after careful study & deliberation, their decisions are wiser
than you give them credit for. Many people criticise Justice O'Connor
for her unwillingness to overturn 'Roe vs Wade.'


Gene Kearns wrote:
Justice O'Connor was the progenitor of a number of wise decisions and
she could clearly see beyond pop-politics.


Agreed... and add that it's rather difficult to criticise most Supreme
Court decisions, much less individual SC judges opinions on them, without
careful study. OTOH it's really easy to holler insults because the outcome
isn't what one might prefer at a glance.

"Careful study" - I think that's what's missing when people bitch loudly
about certain judicial nominees. I wonder if these people have ever heard or
read transcripts of what goes on in many SC hearings. NPR will sometimes
read excerpts. It's rather fascinating, especially because it often involves
the justices throwing hypothetical legal questions at lawyers, as a way of
pushing legal questions to absurd extremes, and peel away anything but the
most basic logic. And, I recently heard a commentator say that sometimes,
the justices refuse to overturn a law not because they agree with it, but
because they think it should be debated further in lower courts (and the
press & other public forums) so lawyers can return later with more clearly
defined arguments. I think this is brilliant, and it means the justices are
doing exactly what's right.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Careful study" - I think that's what's missing when people bitch loudly
about certain judicial nominees.

Sure. Most people who are hollering these days seem to think that the
majority of the Supreme Court is somehow 'liberal.'



.... And, I recently heard a commentator say that sometimes,
the justices refuse to overturn a law not because they agree with it, but
because they think it should be debated further in lower courts (and the
press & other public forums) so lawyers can return later with more clearly
defined arguments. I think this is brilliant, and it means the justices are
doing exactly what's right.


Agreed again... and this is one of the problems I have with 'Bush vs
Gore'... not only is it a dangerous precedent, one with little or no
underpinning in the Constitution, but they shouldn't have taken the case
before the lower court had finished. Besides, look what's happened since
then!

DSK

"Argyle" argyle@nospam wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:49:49 -0400, DSK wrote:

Argyle wrote:
I must have misunderstood something you said, if so, it was
unintended.


OK, want to try again?

Who would Jesus bomb?
Nobody.

Uh huh... and it is a "vast majority'? Furthermore, does an 11%
majority
justify demonizing all who disagree?

I try not to demonize but feel strongly about it. Just as I would
demonize
those that do not believe in racial equlity.

Demonizing the opposition is a pretty standard tactic for the Christian
Right movement. Maybe you should try to get them to tone it down a bit.
I'll try to be nicer and more tolerant.

Demonizing the opposition is the standard for liebrals...........once
again they accuse others of what they are guilty of.




Why do you call conservative justices "liberal"? Do you think so
little
of Reagan's appointees?


Who appointed them is not a concern. Their decisions are.


Maybe, after careful study & deliberation, their decisions are wiser
than you give them credit for. Many people criticise Justice O'Connor
for her unwillingness to overturn 'Roe vs Wade.'
Maybe, and maybe not on their decisions. Do you call a 5 to 4 decision a
vast majority? I am still pro-life and a Christian. I could care less if
you
are not. Fact is, I don't care what you beleve in. As long as you have
morals.

The reason for overturning Roe vs Wade has nothing to do with abortion,
it has everything to do with the returning the fed. guvmint back to its
consitutionally limited mandates.



But you appear to support "legislation from the bench" when it is
anti-gay and anti-abortion?


No, I don't.

Well, that's good. Maybe you'll be a good influence when discussion
turns to the upcoming battle over Robert's nomination.
I'll wait to see what those that have access to the records have to say.
If
there is a problem, I guess it will be on partisan lines. Until then, I
don't know enough to form an opinion.


Regards,
Argyle

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 15:13:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
. ..

and now am
able to enjoy my first love... teaching. For me, academia is a choice,
not a station of last resort.

11 beers for you. :-) Teachers who like to teach are a precious asset.
What
do you teach?


I started out teaching Vocational Machine Shop, but I now teach
Aviation Maintenance Technology.

I'm afraid to ask, but I will: Do you sometimes get students who are barely
qualified to work at Jiffy Lube, and think they're ready to work on aircraft
that carry hundreds of passengers (to their deaths)?

Doug,
Something to think about when you go to the doctor, 50% of the doctors
graduated in the bottom half of the schools. You will find the same in all
industries, including aircraft mechanics. ; )


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 15:13:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...

and now am
able to enjoy my first love... teaching. For me, academia is a choice,
not a station of last resort.

11 beers for you. :-) Teachers who like to teach are a precious asset.
What
do you teach?


I started out teaching Vocational Machine Shop, but I now teach
Aviation Maintenance Technology.

I'm afraid to ask, but I will: Do you sometimes get students who are
barely qualified to work at Jiffy Lube, and think they're ready to work on
aircraft that carry hundreds of passengers (to their deaths)?

Agreed. However, for many of the doctor-patient situations you'll find
yourself in, you have an opportunity to speak to the doctor and get a sense
of how much confidence to place in him/her. You never get to speak to the
person working on the plane you're about to board.


"Real Name" wrote in message
...
Doug,
Something to think about when you go to the doctor, 50% of the doctors
graduated in the bottom half of the schools. You will find the same in
all industries, including aircraft mechanics. ; )


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 15:13:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
m...

and now am
able to enjoy my first love... teaching. For me, academia is a choice,
not a station of last resort.

11 beers for you. :-) Teachers who like to teach are a precious asset.
What
do you teach?


I started out teaching Vocational Machine Shop, but I now teach
Aviation Maintenance Technology.

I'm afraid to ask, but I will: Do you sometimes get students who are
barely qualified to work at Jiffy Lube, and think they're ready to work
on aircraft that carry hundreds of passengers (to their deaths)?

Harry,
Do you dislike all those who speak English as a second language or do you
just find them to be inferior to those who speak English as a first
language?



"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
Agreed. However, for many of the doctor-patient situations you'll find
yourself in, you have an opportunity to speak to the doctor and get a
sense of how much confidence to place in him/her. You never get to speak
to the person working on the plane you're about to board.

Not to worry; with all the airline cutbacks, your pilots on US-flagged
airlines won't be speaking English as their primary language anymore,
anyway.

Three weeks of simulated flight training in Bangladore, and they'll be
flying United.

I hope I can avoid public transportation for the next few months. There is
no homeland security in this country these days, and the Metro in DC is a
prime target. My wife uses it to get around downtown more than I do, and
I've asked her to take cabs, instead.


--
If it is Bad for Bush,
It is Good for the United States.

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
Agreed. However, for many of the doctor-patient situations you'll find
yourself in, you have an opportunity to speak to the doctor and get a
sense of how much confidence to place in him/her. You never get to speak
to the person working on the plane you're about to board.

Not to worry; with all the airline cutbacks, your pilots on US-flagged
airlines won't be speaking English as their primary language anymore,
anyway.

Three weeks of simulated flight training in Bangladore, and they'll be
flying United.

I hope I can avoid public transportation for the next few months. There is
no homeland security in this country these days, and the Metro in DC is a
prime target. My wife uses it to get around downtown more than I do, and
I've asked her to take cabs, instead.

I gave up on the airlines 10-15 years ago. I'll only fly when there's really
no other practical choice. I don't like their "acceptable casualties"
formula.