To start with, if you want to use this as fact...

In February 2001, Binalshibh was given the target list, which included the
U.S. Capitol building in Washington D.C. Shortly thereafter, Binalshibh and
Atta picked the codeword “Porsche 911” for the plot.





Now, reason you should not take this as fact:

Heinz Fromm, the head of Germany’s domestic intelligence agency, told a
court in Hamburg on Friday that he believed the devastating terrorist
attacks that leveled New York’s World Trade Center were planned by the
Islamic extremist group al Qaeda in Afghanistan in the late 1990s.



"The September 11 attacks were not planned in Hamburg, rather, as far as we
know, this happened in Afghanistan," Fromm told the court.



He believed, and as far as we know, pretty much say that the date of which
they are referring is pure speculation.



This coupled with the fact that they did in fact convict Abdelghani
Mzoudi... Pretty much says the argument was faulted





"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

wrote in message
link.net...
Actually, no it wasn't...


Since you don't seem to trust *our* government, here's some quotes out of
one of the non-coalition countries:

"Heinz Fromm, the head of Germany's domestic intelligence agency, told a
court in Hamburg on Friday that he believed the devastating terrorist
attacks that leveled New York's World Trade Center were planned by the
Islamic extremist group al Qaeda in Afghanistan in the late 1990s."

"Der Spiegel said the plot to use airplanes as weapons against U.S.
targets
was hatched as early as 1996. Mohammed's first plan was to use small
planes
loaded with explosives, but bin Laden reportedly dismissed that idea in
favor of hijacking large passenger planes with the question: "Why swing an
axe when you can use a bulldozer?""

http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,336...72_1_A,00.html

wrote in message
hlink.net...
To start with, if you want to use this as fact...

In February 2001, Binalshibh was given the target list, which included the
U.S. Capitol building in Washington D.C. Shortly thereafter, Binalshibh
and
Atta picked the codeword "Porsche 911" for the plot.

They were the "soldiers" just following orders from the higher-ups. The
paragraph that preceded the one you just cited said this:

Atta, who piloted the first plane into the World Trade Center, and at least
two other Hamburg-based hijackers *in 1999* where picked for a "very secret
mission" since they could speak English and were familiar with the western
world. At that point they did not yet know what they would do, but were told
to take flight training.



In February 2001, Binalshibh was given the target list, which included the
U.S. Capitol building in Washington D.C. Shortly thereafter, Binalshibh and
Atta picked the codeword "Porsche 911" for the plot.

-----------------------------------------------------

The planning was done in the late 90's. The terrorists were recruited in
1999, but weren't given the specifics until February 2001. The fact
remains: 9/11 was planned during Clinton's watch.

"NOYB" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote:
Yeah, we're really lucky to have had the least prepared, dumbest, most
dogmatic idiot in the history of the presidency in the White house the
last three years.

LOL. You seem especially moody today.

Dr Dr hid the Zanax, and he forgot to go to the liquor store. He's a little
nicer in his usual stupor...

Jack

Were picked for a "very secret mission"

There is nothing here that said the mission had been planned, there is
nothing that says where this happened, unless of course you follow history
back and find that Atta was supposed to be living in Hamburg at that time.

Granted, it might have been thought of, but planned, I doubt.

I notice you ignored the parts about speculation and the fact that he was
tried and convicted in Germany

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

wrote in message
hlink.net...
To start with, if you want to use this as fact...

In February 2001, Binalshibh was given the target list, which included
the
U.S. Capitol building in Washington D.C. Shortly thereafter, Binalshibh
and
Atta picked the codeword "Porsche 911" for the plot.

They were the "soldiers" just following orders from the higher-ups. The
paragraph that preceded the one you just cited said this:

Atta, who piloted the first plane into the World Trade Center, and at
least
two other Hamburg-based hijackers *in 1999* where picked for a "very
secret
mission" since they could speak English and were familiar with the western
world. At that point they did not yet know what they would do, but were
told
to take flight training.



In February 2001, Binalshibh was given the target list, which included the
U.S. Capitol building in Washington D.C. Shortly thereafter, Binalshibh
and
Atta picked the codeword "Porsche 911" for the plot.

-----------------------------------------------------

The planning was done in the late 90's. The terrorists were recruited in
1999, but weren't given the specifics until February 2001. The fact
remains: 9/11 was planned during Clinton's watch.

wrote in message
ink.net...
Were picked for a "very secret mission"

There is nothing here that said the mission had been planned, there is
nothing that says where this happened, unless of course you follow history
back and find that Atta was supposed to be living in Hamburg at that time.

Granted, it might have been thought of, but planned, I doubt.

You're nuts. In 1996, they discussed using planes as weapons. In 1999,
they recruited the terrorists and sent them to flight school. What do you
suppose that was for? In case al Qaeda got it's hands on some F-16's and
decided to form an air force?

The plan was set in the late 90's. It was carried out just 2 years after
Atta, et al, were recruited. They didn't disclose the final details of the
plan to the hijackers until Feb. 2001.

"NOYB" wrote in message
news

wrote in message
ink.net...
Were picked for a "very secret mission"

There is nothing here that said the mission had been planned, there is
nothing that says where this happened, unless of course you follow
history
back and find that Atta was supposed to be living in Hamburg at that
time.

Granted, it might have been thought of, but planned, I doubt.

You're nuts. In 1996, they discussed using planes as weapons. In 1999,
they recruited the terrorists and sent them to flight school. What do you
suppose that was for? In case al Qaeda got it's hands on some F-16's and
decided to form an air force?

The plan was set in the late 90's. It was carried out just 2 years after
Atta, et al, were recruited. They didn't disclose the final details of
the
plan to the hijackers until Feb. 2001.

You are absolutely right. And Clinton should've been aware of all this
details, even though you'd call it "micromanagement" to expect Bush to be
aware of them.

No one died when Clinton lied.

Things you have to believe to be a Republican today.

1. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're
a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our
prayers for your recovery.

2. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our
highest national priority is enforcing UN resolutions against Iraq.

3. Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money
but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain
of illness.

4. "Standing Tall for America'" means firing your workers and moving
their jobs to India.

5. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
multinational corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind
without regulation.

6. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and
Hillary Clinton.

7. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops
in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

8. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run
for governor of California as a Republican.

9. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

10. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime
allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

11. HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at
heart.

12. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing
health care to all Americans is socialism.

13. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science,
but creationism should be taught in schools.

14. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when
Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business
with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden"
diversion.

15. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable
offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which
thousands die is solid defense policy.

16. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the
Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the
Internet.

17. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades,
but George Bush's driving record is none of our business. Similarly
his service record flying publicly funded aircraft is also none of
the public's business. And don't even thing about Cheney's
Halliburton/Energy Policy.

18. You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John
Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a
right to adopt.

19. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national
interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.

20. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but
trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international
harmony.

Capt. Jeff

Yeah, it's a good thing we had these chickenhawks (Bush, Rumsfeld,
Wolfowitz, Cheney, not one of which ever really served a real day in
uniform) in charge of the weapons so they could attack a country that
spends 1/300th of our defense budget and kick their butts so that the
bush-its could get re-elected and all their friends could make lots of
money.

Oh, wait, we aren't kicking their butts are we? Surprise, surprise...



Capt. Jeff

"NOYB" wrote in message news:jd7qc.12789
Gore could have been President during all of this?

YES, and we will never know how well (or poorly) he might have done. I
can't imagine what he could do worse

I can. By all measures, we experienced a *very* short-lived recession
thanks to the Bush tax cut. Without it, we'd probably still be in a deep
recession. Additionally, the Taliban would still control Afghanistan.

They pretty much still are, and as soon as we leave, they will be in
full charge again, so just what have we accomplished there?

Saddam would still be in charge of Iraq.

So what? Did you HONESTLY, before Bush lied us into Iraq, think about
Iraqi citizens being abused? And were those thoughts of how we could
releive the suffering of those citizens? If so, then why now do you
make statements like we should nuke them all?

France, Russia and China would
still be selling banned weapons to Iraq.

Have a problem with governments selling weapons to Iraq? Did you have
the same concerns when the United States (Rumsfield) did the same?

UN officials would still be
skimming billions off the oil-for-food program.

Only difference is, now it's US that's doing that, by way of "private
contractors", and Bush/Cheney are profiting.

al Qaeda would be stronger
than ever, and probably control the oil coming from the Middle East.

How do you know that al Qaeda "would be stronger than ever" and
"control the oil coming from the Middle East"?

And
numerous additional domestic terrorist attacks would be occurring because
algore would be dealing with each attack as a law enforcement issue.

What proof of this wild allegation do you have?

"NOYB" wrote in message news:_abqc.12958
Without it, we'd probably still be in a deep
recession.

This based upon your liberal arts studies of economics?

In undergrad, I majored in Mechanical Engineering, with a minor in
economics.

I guess not of it really *hit home* then, did it?