Our old boat (1958 Chris Craft) has a generator and voltage regulator. We
continue
to have problems with this system charging. We've had the generator rebuilt
and we
bought a new voltage regulator. It charged fine for a while. Then it didn't.
Sometimes it
does again.

I know. I know: Get an alternator. OK, I'm seriously considering this
option. I'm looking
into what we can get that fits on our engine well (mounting holes, etc.)

BUT, I'd also like to know more about generators, how they work, how I can
test it
and the Voltage Regulator to isolate where the problem is. I've googled in
the past and
not found much.

Anyone know of good sites, books, or have the time to email with me about
how these
things work and how I can diagnose problems with them??

Thanks,
Gary

Gary, is it a prestolite/autolite gen and VR and is it gear driven or
belt?


Need to know.

Tim

Gary wrote:

I know. I know: Get an alternator. OK, I'm seriously considering this
option. I'm looking
into what we can get that fits on our engine well (mounting holes, etc.)

BUT, I'd also like to know more about generators, how they work, how I can
test it
and the Voltage Regulator to isolate where the problem is. I've googled in
the past and
not found much.

Anyone know of good sites, books, or have the time to email with me about
how these
things work and how I can diagnose problems with them??

You seem to be going in 2 opposing directions. An old-style DC
generator & regulator is very easy to troubleshoot & any old auto
manual from the 6v car era will tell you all you need to know in 2
pages. For refitting it with an alternator, it is no different than
the thousands of shore vehicles that have been refitted, except it
needs a marinized alternator (i.e., tripple the price at retailg).
Since you already know a reubilder (?), I suggest you sidle up to him,
since he's seen it a hundred times & knows what common frame sizes fit
what. I also suggest you forget about being limited to only using the
original bracket & holes - almost no one does, and the typically
higher-producing alternator will merit a bracket appropriate to its
higher HP belt radial load, though some get fudged just fine with minor
mods or spacers. It is situational. Consider how wide the output
difference is btw your original generator & the proposed alternator in
amps, and use this as a rough guide to what you may or may not need for
a bracket or minor improvements to the one you have, and vs available
alternator frame configs. It is not complex, and you will waste $1000
worth of time trying to learn about it online.

Gary wrote:
Our old boat (1958 Chris Craft) has a generator and voltage regulator. We
continue
to have problems with this system charging. We've had the generator rebuilt
and we
bought a new voltage regulator. It charged fine for a while. Then it didn't.
Sometimes it
does again.

I know. I know: Get an alternator. OK, I'm seriously considering this
option. I'm looking
into what we can get that fits on our engine well (mounting holes, etc.)

BUT, I'd also like to know more about generators, how they work, how I can
test it
and the Voltage Regulator to isolate where the problem is. I've googled in
the past and
not found much.

Anyone know of good sites, books, or have the time to email with me about
how these
things work and how I can diagnose problems with them??

Thanks,
Gary



Hi Gary you asked so here's my attempt, at well under $1000 of time I
suggest:-) (Someone thinks they're worth a lot??)

(1) An old style marine generator can be just as good in a boat as a
marine alternator. Seeing you have one it might cost you lots to change
over if you do it properly with a "marine" alternator. The reason we all
went alternator was we spend so much time in cars stopped idling in
traffic jams, this coupled with ever increasing load from "stuff",
i.e.fuel injection, pumps, AC,radiator & other fans, heated rear windows
(why does a Nikki have a heated rear window??: to keep your hands warm
while pushing it) so these days the charging system whatever it is needs
to put out lots of power at low engine speeds. Clearly the fix is just
to use more stepup in the belt drive so the charger can turn say about
7-8 times faster than the engine & if you look that's about the ratio
they use on alternators these days, so at a say 700 rpm idle the alt is
spinning at 4000-5000 rpm & giving out plenty of charge, but if you spun
a generator at the same speed there's no reason it wouldn't (& always
did) put out the same amount. The "problem" with spinning generators
fast was well know from the hotrodders days, because in a generator the
heavy load is carried by the rotating element (armature) (have a look
at the monster windings they're in the middle with heavy current being
transfered via the commutator & big brushes). If you really rev a
generator up it literally explodes:-) from centrifugal force, the
armature windings come out of their slots whereupon they crash into the
field windings (the lighter wire in the housing) & oops, it's done like
a Ficht E-tec.
The "fix" was to reverse the problem by changing to alternators, they
have very light windings in the rotating Armature which now only carries
the fields & the heavy load is carried in the cases coils. This means
they can spin them up to amazing speeds with no "explosions":-) & a side
benefit is there is no need for a commutator or heavy load brushes so a
simple light set of slip rings can carry the small "control" current to
the spinning fields.

(2) Boats in general don't sit endlessly idling as cars do so a
generator can & is just as good power output wise. They also don't tend
to have endless accessories & "just to make it run" electrical loads
attached as a modern car does. Unless you've done a really significant
hotup job on the engine the generator will not be over revved even at
sustained max revs (hope you don't do that).

(3) Your problems are likely related to the brushes/commutator as in
spasmodically used salt laden environment they can get dirty then spark
under the heavy current load & get pitted, but if you clean them up even
just with emery paper, then with a very small screw driver "slightly!!!"
undercut between the commutator segments they will come back like new.

(4) While you're there check the field windings (the ones in the case)
for continuity & not grounded to the case, likewise the armature can be
checked by using a voltmeter checking adjacent commutator segments for
continuity then check there is no leak to ground (one lead on the comm
the other on the shaft & slowly turn through 360 you should not get any
flow).

(5) The regulator box will have 3 units in it. 2 are vibrating armature
type contacts (1 controls voltage output the other current amps) & the
last is a simple cutout relay so when you stop the battery can't
backfeed into the generator. These should be OK adjustment wise &
adjusting the voltage current armatures can be tricky as changing one
has a big effect on the other so avoid that or take it to an auto
electrician (damn they're expensive almost as expensive as marine
dealers?? no no no I was being serious!!!! stop bloody laughing now
seriously I think they come close:-)). In a marine environment the
problem again is salt laden moist air, so a light clean of the contacts
in situ with very fine emery should get them back up to snuff also.

(6) Check all the obvious external stuff leads connections etc for good
clean connections.

(7) Carefully examine the exterior of the generator & take as long as it
takes this is really important, it's not likely but vary carefully check
for any name punchings or plates; if it's a "Lucas" brand then sadly
just throw it away, it's from the prince of darkness & probably never
did work:-) (I'd say most of the Lucas people having been chased off the
British Isles, have now moved in with the French Canadians & are making
Ficht E-Tec; sacra bleu)



K

So of course the liar Krause doesn't much like me because he's a sexist
racist lying simpleton, however he attacks any & everyone who doesn't
subscribe to his endless union bullyboy crap.

This is just some of his abusive lies & to a "local"!!! You can imagine
how mine has gone over the years:-)

Apologies to the owner of this collection; but hey war is hell:-)



Well, bb, would you consider the following to be 'stalking'?

**************************

Quotes from our hero -- Harry K.

************************************************** *************
You must have run out of high school babysitting jobs

I doubt he's read the classic comics versions of much of anything.

Apparently John has problems being a john. Go figure.

Well, John, since you have no idea or knowledge over the rather peculiar
news "gatherer" I use some days, your opinion is...worthless.

But since your entire world is binary, black or white, I suppose you are
blind to the grey.

That's what happens when you waste your life in the military.


Not after you've wasted your life in the Army.

Gee, John...did you just read about this in Army Times (mustered-out
edition)?

Does John actually teach? I know he's mentioned he subs in the
Alexandria school system, but my recollection is that he has posted that
he mainly babysits high school kids, and doesn't teach. Or was it that
he tries to teach some math classes if he is assigned one, but doesn't
try to teach if he is assigned to a non-math class.

I'm not sure anything about John passes the WGAS test.

Yeah. I'd toss John to the sharks. He seems to have fewer and fewer
redeeming qualities.

John, after all, is a retired military
puke, and the only people in the country who take military pukes
seriously are...other military pukes.

Simpleton.

You really have turned yourself into a lying asshole, John.

As for the rest of Herring's diatribe, he's just being his disingenuous
self. Although he's gotten nastier and nastier the last few weeks. I
think his real asshole personality is emerging, the same one I picked up
on at the marina.

John spent his career in the military and is used to more bull****.

John needs a tad of reprogramming.

It's hard to have respect for an organization that had you in it long
enough for a retirement.

Isn't that why you joined the military? Free health care, free college,
free prescriptions, subsidized housing...such a deal...was it good for you?

Indeed. Probably too complex for John, even though it is the simplest of
newsreaders to use.

John is absolutely clueless about what you are discussing or about the
b.s. factor in military PR.

Drinking heavily again, John?

Whooosh...right over your head, again, John. But, then, you have no
marketable skills, either...

Well, John, some of us have to be open-minded and bright, like me, and
others of us have to be close-minded and dull, like you.

I suppose we have to cut John Herring some slack...he did spend most of
his adult life in the military, where thinking is not encouraged.

Once again, John, you're not worth more than a one-liner as a response.
Go play with your good conduct medal. Did you also get one for attendance?

Naw. John prefers chickenhawk with his fries.

Which just proves what a sleaze you are, because if you did vote for
Sharpton, you voted in the Democratic primary, and since you are a
Republican, you cast your vote as a would-be spoiler.

Do you ever have anything other than simple-minded thoughts, John?

Stupid? You mean like the 12 or so posts you just vomited up here, John?


Only a low-life right-wing failure like you would think so, John

You probably haven't read either book, either, or many other books, not
for a long time, if ever.

John has limited skills. That's why he spent his adult life in the
military.

No wonder you are so ****y.

But Bush's failures matter not to Herring and other flat-line
Republicans like him. They'll vote for Bush not matter what, utter foolw
that they are.

Yeah, reich, er, right. What a surprise...John the Wingnut voting
Republican...again.

Searching contrainer ships is a lot different from carving away at the
Constitutional rights of citizens, but I wouldn't expect a d.f. like you
to appreciate the difference.

Coulter? Sheesh. You really are a bottom feeder.

Here you go, dicquehead:

John H. in person sort of looks like he is in the mid stages of AIDs.
Too thin, large splotches on his skin, hair falling out...

Did you get an attendance award, Herring?


John and his ilk are simple-minded konservatives, cannot think
abstractly, and see issues only in black or white terms. John is an
especially pathetic konservative, as he spent most of his adult life as
a federal employee sucking on the taxpayers' teat, and now works as a
teacher in the public school system, thus continuing his sucking on the
taxpayers' teat. You would think a konservative like John would disdain
a paycheck from the taxpayers. But that would require him to be able to
think in the abstract, and such thinking is not allowed those in the
military.

Au contraire...I believe teaching to be among the most honorable
professions, and always have. But you're not a teacher, John...you are a
babysitter.


More bull**** from you, John? I have the greatest respect for public
school teachers, who work long hours under difficult conditions for, at
best, ordinary pay and benefits. You're not a real teacher; you're a
substitute teacher who has admitted more than once that on many of your
assignments, you don't teach at all, or even try to teach. You do
nothing more than babysit. You obviously missed the irony in my post;
the insult was aimed at you, not the teaching profession. You are a
self-proclaimed conservative and yet, for your living most of your life,
you have drawn your pay from the taxpayers, and thumbed your nose at
your job responsibilities.

If I lived in your town and were a whining slimeball like you, I'd
complain about you in a way that matters. But I'm not pondscum like you
are, and I'd never ever try to cause anyone job problems because of
their newsgroup political statements or leanings.

You're just living (barely) proof of how low your end of the political
spectrum has sunk.

"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

Hey Tim,

I believe the generator is an Autolite. I don't know the brand of the
VR. We got a replacement VR from NAPA store -- which is the VR
we are using now -- and it is part number: VR206

The generator is belt driven.

Also, see my other post. It turns out I may not have a problem at all...
maybe just a bad connection at the fuse box.

Thanks for the help & info.

Gary

First, thanks for everyone for taking the time to answer. Lots of good
points
of view and information here. And, again, I'll say that I love this group.
Many
complain about all the politics and sometimes the childishness and hate is
too
much...but ask a decent question and you'll get lots of knowledgable
answers.
What more can one really want?

Second: It seems my problem may be as simple as a fuse that was not making
contact with the "blades" it sets in. The power lead from the generator /
voltage
regulator is fused before it enteres my main electrical system. I had
checked the
fuse to be sure it was not blown. But yesterday it occured to me that even
if
the fuse is not blown, maybe current was not passing through it. The fuse is
the older glass style and it sets in an old style fuse panel with two
"blades" on
each side. ~ I got out my volt meter, set it for continuity tesing, and
touched
a lead to each side. No current flow. I moved the fuse a bit....ta
da...current
flow. Maybe the blades were just corroded.

Haven't run the engine yet to fully test.

Again, thanks for the information & ideas...it will be useful even if my
current problem
is simplier.

Thanks,
Gary