Hmmm... On which "side" do you put us military jet pilots who also are kayakers
and glider pilots but who don't fly ultralight planes?

Oh, I think you would have to choose at one point in your life where
you belong, with the motorboaters or kayakers. I mean, how can you be
with the sardine and the shark at the same time?

"Unless you are planning to arm those sardines, all the cooperation in
the world isn't going to keep that
shark/dolphin/codfish/haddock/pollock from eating his fill. (Wait a
minute, sardines don't have arms....)"

How about the piranhas??? We can arm sardines with similar teeth and...
Wait a minute, we are talking NONVIOLENCE!

We can have a system by which the sardines know all the time where the
predators are, similar to the bell on the cat that saves the mice.
Well, I don't know if it works under water as well.

(if you are wandering where these posts come from
see...http://www.paddling.net/message/show...=341005#344207)

"donquijote1954" wrote...
Hmmm... On which "side" do you put us military jet pilots who also are
kayakers
and glider pilots but who don't fly ultralight planes?

Oh, I think you would have to choose at one point in your life where
you belong, with the motorboaters or kayakers. I mean, how can you be
with the sardine and the shark at the same time?

Well, ultralights have motors, so where's the break point?

I already traded in my A-6 for a 747...

John Weiss (at dot) wrote:
"donquijote1954" wrote...
Hmmm... On which "side" do you put us military jet pilots who also are
kayakers
and glider pilots but who don't fly ultralight planes?

Oh, I think you would have to choose at one point in your life where
you belong, with the motorboaters or kayakers. I mean, how can you be
with the sardine and the shark at the same time?

Well, ultralights have motors, so where's the break point?

I already traded in my A-6 for a 747...

Some motors, sometimes are OK. You can't always wait for the wind to
blow your way.

In rec.boats.paddle donquijote1954 wrote:


: Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
: In rec.boats.paddle donquijote1954 wrote:
: : I wonder, you are down there in a humble kayak because you are not a
: : bully, you are at mercy of the elements and you have to use your brain
: : and skill to survive; and you believe in "smaller is better;" and you
: : see the ocean all polluted around you, stuff thrown overboard of
: : motorboats floating everywhere; and the motorboats whistle past you;
: : and there are no places to launch while there are many motorboat ramps;
: : and you see the shark always chasing the sardines... How can you be a
: : Conservative????
:
: How do you know we aren't bullies kayaking to keep up our arm strength?
:

: Sorry, but your arm strength amounts to nothing in the face of sharks,
: and particularly motorboats. I got news for you: You are at the bottom
: of the food chain.

Harrr, not when they are at the boat ramp matey....

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
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Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
In rec.boats.paddle donquijote1954 wrote:


: Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
: In rec.boats.paddle donquijote1954 wrote:
: : I wonder, you are down there in a humble kayak because you are not a
: : bully, you are at mercy of the elements and you have to use your brain
: : and skill to survive; and you believe in "smaller is better;" and you
: : see the ocean all polluted around you, stuff thrown overboard of
: : motorboats floating everywhere; and the motorboats whistle past you;
: : and there are no places to launch while there are many motorboat ramps;
: : and you see the shark always chasing the sardines... How can you be a
: : Conservative????
:
: How do you know we aren't bullies kayaking to keep up our arm strength?
:

: Sorry, but your arm strength amounts to nothing in the face of sharks,
: and particularly motorboats. I got news for you: You are at the bottom
: of the food chain.

Harrr, not when they are at the boat ramp matey....


And when you are fishing and catch THE SHARK...

All the preyed-upon (sardines, mice, bugs, etc.) have one survival strategy:
outreproduce the predators, and "make love not war" seems to be sustaining
the food chain quite nicely. Of course, too much success in reproduction
usually means exceeding your food supply, leading to population crash.
Happens all the time. So you need the predators to keep the browsers in
check, lest they eat everything in sight. Ah, isn't non-violent nature
grand...


"donquijote1954" wrote in message
oups.com...
"Unless you are planning to arm those sardines, all the cooperation in
the world isn't going to keep that
shark/dolphin/codfish/haddock/pollock from eating his fill. (Wait a
minute, sardines don't have arms....)"

How about the piranhas??? We can arm sardines with similar teeth and...
Wait a minute, we are talking NONVIOLENCE!

We can have a system by which the sardines know all the time where the
predators are, similar to the bell on the cat that saves the mice.
Well, I don't know if it works under water as well.

(if you are wandering where these posts come from
see...http://www.paddling.net/message/show...=341005#344207)

PG wrote:
All the preyed-upon (sardines, mice, bugs, etc.) have one survival strategy:
outreproduce the predators, and "make love not war" seems to be sustaining
the food chain quite nicely. Of course, too much success in reproduction
usually means exceeding your food supply, leading to population crash.
Happens all the time. So you need the predators to keep the browsers in
check, lest they eat everything in sight. Ah, isn't non-violent nature
grand...

Only that God, or the God of Evolution (there must be one, right?) may
be ****ed off...

EVOLVE OR ELSE!

Once upon a time lived a race of dinosaurs whose violence and appetite
alarmed everybody... One day a Little Ant, tired of feeling stepped
upon, and worried about her cooperative enterprise, came up to the
Americanus Raptor--the biggest dinosaur of them all--and asked: "Why
you eat and eat everything in your path? Why don't you slim down? Why
can't we little animals at least have our own way?" Then the dinosaur,
blowing the Little Ant away, shouted: "Bigger is better, so get lost!"

The Little Ant, then, gathered the whole cooperative and said:
"Comrades, our world is being threatened by the dinosaurs, so..." And
at that precise moment the Earth was hit by a big ball of fire,
destroying all but the small animals...

Moral: "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the
most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." -Charles
Darwin

Frankly, I think God has a very keen sense of humor, but most of us just
aren't getting the joke.

In any given environment, selection pressures usually push for greater
specialization, to allow a more efficient exploitation of a biological
niche. If the niche is stable over a period of many reproductive
generations, then the specialization can take extreme forms, as the most
efficient tend to reproduce best. However, once the niche changes, the
specialized species are no longer in their favored environment, and
therefore are less able exploit the new situation, while the more
generalized species can do so since their "niche" is much wider. In a
rapidly-changing environment, the generalist omnivors survive the best, as
they are not choosy about their food sources or their living conditions.
Once the situation stabilizes, the reproductive pressures again favor those
who can exploit the new niche most efficiently.

It seems to me that laziness and greed have a lot to do with biology - the
green things sit there and let the water, and sunlight come to them - no
sweat. Then they want more, so grow bigger leaves, bigger branches, bigger
everything. The browsers are too lazy to wait for food to come to them, so
they eat the green things. They want more, and more, and eat and eat, and
get bigger. The predators are too lazy to spend all day eating the green
things, so they eat the browsers - and they too want more.

While God is laughing, Gaia is ****ed off because the web of life is all
about me, me, me!

Coming back to the original question, are conservatives those who want
change (law of the jungle), or those who want to preserve stability (things
were good back then...)?

"donquijote1954" wrote in message
oups.com...


PG wrote:
All the preyed-upon (sardines, mice, bugs, etc.) have one survival
strategy:
outreproduce the predators, and "make love not war" seems to be
sustaining
the food chain quite nicely. Of course, too much success in reproduction
usually means exceeding your food supply, leading to population crash.
Happens all the time. So you need the predators to keep the browsers in
check, lest they eat everything in sight. Ah, isn't non-violent nature
grand...

Only that God, or the God of Evolution (there must be one, right?) may
be ****ed off...

EVOLVE OR ELSE!

Once upon a time lived a race of dinosaurs whose violence and appetite
alarmed everybody... One day a Little Ant, tired of feeling stepped
upon, and worried about her cooperative enterprise, came up to the
Americanus Raptor--the biggest dinosaur of them all--and asked: "Why
you eat and eat everything in your path? Why don't you slim down? Why
can't we little animals at least have our own way?" Then the dinosaur,
blowing the Little Ant away, shouted: "Bigger is better, so get lost!"

The Little Ant, then, gathered the whole cooperative and said:
"Comrades, our world is being threatened by the dinosaurs, so..." And
at that precise moment the Earth was hit by a big ball of fire,
destroying all but the small animals...

Moral: "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the
most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." -Charles
Darwin

"PG" wrote in message
...

Frankly, I think God has a very keen sense of humor, but most of us just
aren't getting the joke.

"If I were to construct a God I would furnish Him with some way and
qualities and characteristics which the Present lacks. He would not stoop to
ask for any man's compliments, praises, flatteries; and He would be far
above exacting them. I would have Him as self-respecting as the better sort
of man in these regards.
He would not be a merchant, a trader. He would not buy these things. He
would not sell, or offer to sell, temporary benefits of the joys of eternity
for the product called worship. I would have Him as dignified as the better
sort of man in this regard.

He would value no love but the love born of kindnesses conferred; not that
born of benevolences contracted for. Repentance in a man's heart for a wrong
done would cancel and annul that sin; and no verbal prayers for forgiveness
be required or desired or expected of that man.

In His Bible there would be no Unforgiveable Sin. He would recognize in
Himself the Author and Inventor of Sin and Author and Inventor of the
Vehicle and Appliances for its commission; and would place the whole
responsibility where it would of right belong: upon Himself, the only
Sinner.

He would not be a jealous God--a trait so small that even men despise it in
each other.

He would not boast.

He would keep private Hs admirations of Himself; He would regard self-praise
as unbecoming the dignity of his position.

He would not have the spirit of vengeance in His heart. Then it would not
issue from His lips.

There would not be any hell--except the one we live in from the cradle to
the grave.

There would not be any heaven--the kind described in the world's Bibles.

He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for
making man unhappy when he could have made him happy with the same effort
and he would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy. - Mark Twain's
Notebook