A Great Weekend So Far
 

Thursday 6-16

The son of one of our best friends, Steve, a Marine in Special Ops (in
training,) comes over to visit. He has 14 days of leave from his Marine
base in NC. After welcoming him and talking for several hours my son and
daughter take him down to the Flats of Cleveland to enjoy watching the boats
on the river while having some appetisizers at the local pub.

Prior to them leaving my wife asked Steve what he really craves for
dinner..... his response (with no hesitation)....meatloaf, mashed taters and
corn......my wife cooks it. During and after the meal we had some good
family discussions and found out what Steve has been doing since being in
the Special Ops training. Later we watched a DVD (The Matrix Reloaded),
although Steve falls asleep and I wake him to go to bed in our guest
bedroom.

Friday 6-17

Steve wakes at about 9 a.m. and wants a breakfast of PBJ......oops, my son
used it up this morning making lunch for his house painting job (my son left
the house at 7). Pop tarts are on the menu.

We talk for several hours and I make him a meatloaf sandwich with catsup and
refill his water bottle (he drinks 3+ liters or water/day). He eats the
sandwich and I make him another meatloaf sandwich for lunch on the road.

He leaves prior to noon, going to meet up with his mom, dad and best friends
in Michigan. He will be there until Saturday 6-25 at which time he will
head back to base in NC.

He is expecting to be deployed with his special ops teams to Iraq sometime
in January, 2006.

++++++++++++++++

I have known Steve since he was a baby and have been there throughout his
development.

I love Steve and wish him well with the remainder of his Special Ops
training......jumping (from airplanes) and SCUBA...I can only wish him God
Speed when he eventually is in harms way.

This is the second Marine we personally know....the other is the son of our
other best friends and has been in Iraq already for several months.

Despite your feelings about the war please keep all our men and women
serving in our Armed Forces in your prayers.

Despite your feelings about the war please keep all our men and women
serving in our Armed Forces in your prayers

*********

The war, along with the people who deliberately lied us into it and are
now profiting from it is crap.

The young men and women who do their duty there
are heroic. Each one killed, wounded, or separated
on multiple extended tours from home and family is a national tragedy.

Screw the war, but honor the troops. It is possible to do both at once.
People who feel that we must despise the troops because they are forced
to serve in a bogus war as well as people who feel that we cannot
respect and value the troops without cheering for the
war itself are all wrong.

On 17 Jun 2005 21:32:26 -0700, wrote:

Despite your feelings about the war please keep all our men and women
serving in our Armed Forces in your prayers

*********

The war, along with the people who deliberately lied us into it and are
now profiting from it is crap.

The young men and women who do their duty there
are heroic. Each one killed, wounded, or separated
on multiple extended tours from home and family is a national tragedy.

Screw the war, but honor the troops. It is possible to do both at once.
People who feel that we must despise the troops because they are forced
to serve in a bogus war as well as people who feel that we cannot
respect and value the troops without cheering for the
war itself are all wrong.

Deliberately lied? You're turning into a regular krausite!

You seem to forget:


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That
is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We
want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998


"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal
here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear,
chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest
security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998


"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times
since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998


"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.
Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate,
air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to
the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
programs."

- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John
Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998


"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he
has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998


"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999


"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam
continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a
licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten
the United States and our allies."

- Letter to President Bush, Signed by (FORMER) Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and
others,
December 5, 2001


"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction
and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002


"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002


"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in
power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002


"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002


"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002


"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority
to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real
and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002


"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five years . We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002


"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do" Rep.
- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002


"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has
also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
members
... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002


"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002


"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real
...."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Now, go have a great day!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On 17 Jun 2005 21:32:26 -0700, wrote:

Screw the war, but honor the troops.

With all due respect Chuck, the troops are the war. You can't hate
one and love the other - they are one and the same.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:16:39 -0400, "*JimH*" wrote:

This is the second Marine we personally know....the other is the son of our
other best friends and has been in Iraq already for several months.

Despite your feelings about the war please keep all our men and women
serving in our Armed Forces in your prayers.

Semper Fi.

Pass it along.

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:44:26 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On 17 Jun 2005 21:32:26 -0700, wrote:

Screw the war, but honor the troops.

With all due respect Chuck, the troops are the war. You can't hate
one and love the other - they are one and the same.

Kinda like Durbin and his Nazi, Pol Pot, and gulag comments. "But I'm not
talking about soldiers...!"

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:44:26 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On 17 Jun 2005 21:32:26 -0700, wrote:

Screw the war, but honor the troops.

With all due respect Chuck, the troops are the war. You can't hate
one and love the other - they are one and the same.

On second thought, I have to disagree with you. I was not in favor of going to
war in Iraq, but I do think the troops are doing commendable work over there.
When fire fighters go to fight a fire, we don't have to be in favor of the fire
to commend the fire fighters.

However, Durbin's comments don't fall in the same category as Chuck's. Durbin's
comments reflected directly on soldiers.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

This is just my opinion, but I disgree with the war in Iraq, think we were
lied to by our leaders and should have waited for the United Nations
backing. I do how ever support our troops, they have no choice in the matter
of being over there, putting their lifes in harms way every day every minute
while they are over there. Again, just my view on the war, not asking anyone
to agree or disagree.

Ed
wrote in message
oups.com...
Despite your feelings about the war please keep all our men and women
serving in our Armed Forces in your prayers

*********

The war, along with the people who deliberately lied us into it and are
now profiting from it is crap.

The young men and women who do their duty there
are heroic. Each one killed, wounded, or separated
on multiple extended tours from home and family is a national tragedy.

Screw the war, but honor the troops. It is possible to do both at once.
People who feel that we must despise the troops because they are forced
to serve in a bogus war as well as people who feel that we cannot
respect and value the troops without cheering for the
war itself are all wrong.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Despite your feelings about the war please keep all our men and women
serving in our Armed Forces in your prayers

*********

The war, along with the people who deliberately lied us into it and are
now profiting from it is crap.

Everyone within the borders of the US has benefited from the war, currenlty
being hotly contested in Afganistan and Iraq.

The young men and women who do their duty there
are heroic. Each one killed, wounded, or separated
on multiple extended tours from home and family is a national tragedy.

It is a personal tradgedy for each family and a sacrifice to the greater
good of the US.

For the first ten years of my life my father, a naval officer, was at home,
ship in port or on shore duty, for of those years four years. Most of this
was prior to to Vietnam. Was this a national tragedy?

Screw the war, but honor the troops. It is possible to do both at once.

No, you can't do both at the same time. It is demoralizing to the men and
women fighting the war.

People who feel that we must despise the troops because they are forced
to serve in a bogus war as well as people who feel that we cannot
respect and value the troops without cheering for the
war itself are all wrong.

If you believe that the war is wrong then you must also believe that the
troops serving in that war are wrong.

"ed" wrote in message
...
This is just my opinion, but I disgree with the war in Iraq, think we were
lied to by our leaders and should have waited for the United Nations
backing. I do how ever support our troops, they have no choice in the
matter of being over there, putting their lifes in harms way every day
every minute while they are over there. Again, just my view on the war,
not asking anyone to agree or disagree.

All of our troops are volunteers. They are in Iraq because they willingly
signed on the dotted line.

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:

If you believe that the war is wrong then you must also believe that the
troops serving in that war are wrong.


Bullship, pure and simple, and the kind of response one might expect from
a simple-minded jackass.

Why is it "Bullship?" All of the troops are there because they said that
they would obey all lawful orders from those appointed over them.

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:
"ed" wrote in message
...

This is just my opinion, but I disgree with the war in Iraq, think we
were lied to by our leaders and should have waited for the United Nations
backing. I do how ever support our troops, they have no choice in the
matter of being over there, putting their lifes in harms way every day
every minute while they are over there. Again, just my view on the war,
not asking anyone to agree or disagree.


All of our troops are volunteers. They are in Iraq because they willingly
signed on the dotted line.

D'oh, but if they are sent to Iraq, they have to go. Once you volunteer
for the military, it owns your ass.

So, if you don't want your ass owned don't volunteer.

Tell us about the dangers you faced as a stateside marine, bertie.

First tell us about your uniformed military service?

Now, go have a great day!

********

I will.

Tell me, John, which of the people on that carefully selected list of
Democrats was Commander in Chief and had the *power* to commit the
troops to battle?

Which of these people ran the Exectuive Branch and quote, "fixed" the
intelligence in the summer of 2002 to support the invasion of Iraq?

Which of these people represents the corporation that is raking in tens
of billions per month without contract, without competitive bid, etc?

I'd be very interested in your answer.

You have a nice day, too.

With all due respect Chuck, the troops are the war. You can't hate
one and love the other - they are one and the same.

**********
And with equal respect, that's not correct.

Surely you remember Viet Nam?

By the end of that mess, something like 80% of the public was sick of
either the flawed motivations for the war or the inept way it was being
prosecuted. When the troops came home, the were often shunned, and
sometimes even abused, by a portion of the people who opposed the war
that the troops had been sent to fight. That was wrong, but the excuse
that the bad actors who gave the troops such grief when they arrived at
home relied on *exactly* the same
logic, (in reverse). "The troops are the war. They cannot be separated.
If you support the troops you must support the war, and if you oppose
the war you cannot respect the draftees that were
hauled off to fight in it."

One of the lessons we should have learned from Viet Nam is that the
troops don't make the policy, they simply go where they are sent and do
the job they are ordered to do. I don't blame the troops for the war
in Iraq. Nobody yearns for peace more than a soldier. I can freely say,
"Mr or Ms Troop, while I disagree with the national foreign policy that
has sent you to fight in Iraq I respect your service to your country
and that you are obeying your orders to do your duty
in a perilous situation. I wish you a safe, and speedy, return."

Neither side should stoop to using the men and women serving in the
armed forces as pawns in the propaganda war concerning whether our
invasion and continued occupation of Iraq was (or continues to be) a
good or necessary thing that actually defends the American homeland.
That debate can go on without using the troops as whipping boys.

If you believe that the war is wrong then you must also believe that
the
troops serving in that war are wrong.

********

Funny, when the troops came home from Viet Nam and got the cold
shoulder (or the infamous stereotype "spat upon in airports") the
rattle from the right at that time was, "Even if you're against the
war, don't blame these guys who were just doing their duty!" My how
things change. Now it's, "Unless you want to confess to being a
communist, terrorist, or traitor who hopes that all of our service
people get killed or wounded in action, you *must* blindly and
enthusiastically support any ill-advised deployment of this people
anyhwhere in the world and for any purpose because failing to respect
the mission means you hate the people assigned to do it"

Why is it "Bullship?" All of the troops are there because they said
that
they would obey all lawful orders from those appointed over them.

*********

Precisely.

One can laud people for carrying out their orders in the face of
danger, without agreeing with the orders given. The troops don't have
the luxury of questioning their mission, but the society and freedoms
the armed forces were intended to protect grants the rest of us the
ability to question our leaders and debate the wisdom of their
decisions.

John H wrote:

On second thought, I have to disagree with you. I was not in favor of
going to
war in Iraq, but I do think the troops are doing commendable work over
there.
When fire fighters go to fight a fire, we don't have to be in favor of
the fire
to commend the fire fighters.

*******

Nicely said.

And you complain about *others* ruining perfectly fine threads Chuck?

This thread *was* about 2 young men, both Marines, that I am proud of yet
you had to turn it into a political one about the war.

Pretty pathetic Chuck.

Pretty pathetic Chuck.


*********

Which did you find more pathetic, JimH.

My remark that the job the troops were doing in Iraq was "heroic", or
my characterization of
thier deaths, mutilations, and multiple extensions of duty tours as
"national tragedies"?

wrote in message
oups.com...

And you complain about *others* ruining perfectly fine threads Chuck?

This thread *was* about 2 young men, both Marines, that I am proud of yet
you had to turn it into a political one about the war.

Pretty pathetic Chuck.


*********

Which did you find more pathetic, JimH.

My remark that the job the troops were doing in Iraq was "heroic", or
my characterization of
thier deaths, mutilations, and multiple extensions of duty tours as
"national tragedies"?


I already told you. You chose not to listen.

JimH wrote:

I already told you. You chose not to listen.

*******

No, you didn't.

The only response you made in this thread was:


And you complain about *others* ruining perfectly fine threads Chuck?


This thread *was* about 2 young men, both Marines, that I am proud of
yet
you had to turn it into a political one about the war.


Pretty pathetic Chuck.


*********************

You stated that no matter how one felt about the war, they should
support the troops.
I agreed, and said that while I am against the war I honor the courage
and sacrifice of the troops being ordered to do their duty there. You
responded by charging me with turning your
off-topic thread into an off-topic political thread (thereby ruining
it), and classifying my behavior as pathetic.

So I repeat my question: Which statement did you find more pathetic?

And no, you haven't answered.

wrote in message
oups.com...
JimH wrote:

I already told you. You chose not to listen.

*******

No, you didn't.

The only response you made in this thread was:


And you complain about *others* ruining perfectly fine threads Chuck?


This thread *was* about 2 young men, both Marines, that I am proud of
yet
you had to turn it into a political one about the war.


Pretty pathetic Chuck.


*********************

You stated that no matter how one felt about the war, they should
support the troops.
I agreed, and said that while I am against the war I honor the courage
and sacrifice of the troops being ordered to do their duty there. You
responded by charging me with turning your
off-topic thread into an off-topic political thread (thereby ruining
it), and classifying my behavior as pathetic.

So I repeat my question: Which statement did you find more pathetic?

And no, you haven't answered.


I find the fact the you ruined a nice thread pathetic.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 08:27:40 -0400, HarryKrause wrote:

John H wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:44:26 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:


On 17 Jun 2005 21:32:26 -0700, wrote:


Screw the war, but honor the troops.

With all due respect Chuck, the troops are the war. You can't hate
one and love the other - they are one and the same.


On second thought, I have to disagree with you. I was not in favor of going to
war in Iraq, but I do think the troops are doing commendable work over there.
When fire fighters go to fight a fire, we don't have to be in favor of the fire
to commend the fire fighters.


You honor the troops by bringing them home alive.

- - -


Life in Lubbock Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you
and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most
awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you
love. - Butch Hancock


I came home alive, but sure didn't feel honored.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 08:31:03 -0400, HarryKrause wrote:

John H wrote:
On 17 Jun 2005 21:32:26 -0700, wrote:


Despite your feelings about the war please keep all our men and women
serving in our Armed Forces in your prayers

*********

The war, along with the people who deliberately lied us into it and are
now profiting from it is crap.

The young men and women who do their duty there
are heroic. Each one killed, wounded, or separated
on multiple extended tours from home and family is a national tragedy.

Screw the war, but honor the troops. It is possible to do both at once.
People who feel that we must despise the troops because they are forced
to serve in a bogus war as well as people who feel that we cannot
respect and value the troops without cheering for the
war itself are all wrong.


Deliberately lied? You're turning into a regular krausite!

You seem to forget:



"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction
and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002


D'oh. The evidence is mounting that Bush had the "intel" evidence
"cooked" to support his positions before he had it passed along to
members of Congress.

In other words, he had the "intel" changed to support his predisposition
to invade Iraq.

There is good coming out of Bush's dirty war. He's a half year into his
term and he's becoming a lame duck. Taht's good for America and good for
the world.

Duh...bull****.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:08:41 -0400, HarryKrause wrote:

Bert Robbins wrote:
"ed" wrote in message
...

This is just my opinion, but I disgree with the war in Iraq, think we were
lied to by our leaders and should have waited for the United Nations
backing. I do how ever support our troops, they have no choice in the
matter of being over there, putting their lifes in harms way every day
every minute while they are over there. Again, just my view on the war,
not asking anyone to agree or disagree.


All of our troops are volunteers. They are in Iraq because they willingly
signed on the dotted line.



D'oh, but if they are sent to Iraq, they have to go. Once you volunteer
for the military, it owns your ass.

Tell us about the dangers you faced as a stateside marine, bertie.

Harry, you're in no position to denigrate *anyone's* military service!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:58:31 -0400, "Bert Robbins" wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Despite your feelings about the war please keep all our men and women
serving in our Armed Forces in your prayers

*********

The war, along with the people who deliberately lied us into it and are
now profiting from it is crap.

Everyone within the borders of the US has benefited from the war, currenlty
being hotly contested in Afganistan and Iraq.

The young men and women who do their duty there
are heroic. Each one killed, wounded, or separated
on multiple extended tours from home and family is a national tragedy.

It is a personal tradgedy for each family and a sacrifice to the greater
good of the US.

For the first ten years of my life my father, a naval officer, was at home,
ship in port or on shore duty, for of those years four years. Most of this
was prior to to Vietnam. Was this a national tragedy?

Screw the war, but honor the troops. It is possible to do both at once.

No, you can't do both at the same time. It is demoralizing to the men and
women fighting the war.

People who feel that we must despise the troops because they are forced
to serve in a bogus war as well as people who feel that we cannot
respect and value the troops without cheering for the
war itself are all wrong.

If you believe that the war is wrong then you must also believe that the
troops serving in that war are wrong.



If you believe a house fire is a bad thing, must you also believe the fire
fighters are bad?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On 18 Jun 2005 08:52:04 -0700, wrote:

Now, go have a great day!

********

I will.

Tell me, John, which of the people on that carefully selected list of
Democrats was Commander in Chief and had the *power* to commit the
troops to battle?

Which of these people ran the Exectuive Branch and quote, "fixed" the
intelligence in the summer of 2002 to support the invasion of Iraq?

Which of these people represents the corporation that is raking in tens
of billions per month without contract, without competitive bid, etc?

I'd be very interested in your answer.

You have a nice day, too.

None, to my knowledge. So what?

Have a *better* day! And, thank God Kerry didn't get elected.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

*JimH* Jun 18, 1:30 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: "*JimH*" - Find messages by this author
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:30:50 -0400
Local: Sat,Jun 18 2005 1:30 pm
Subject: A Great Weekend So Far
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse



wrote in message


oups.com...



- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

JimH wrote:

I already told you. You chose not to listen.


*******


No, you didn't.


The only response you made in this thread was:


And you complain about *others* ruining perfectly fine threads Chuck?


This thread *was* about 2 young men, both Marines, that I am proud of
yet
you had to turn it into a political one about the war.


Pretty pathetic Chuck.


*********************


You stated that no matter how one felt about the war, they should
support the troops.
I agreed, and said that while I am against the war I honor the courage
and sacrifice of the troops being ordered to do their duty there. You
responded by charging me with turning your
off-topic thread into an off-topic political thread (thereby ruining
it), and classifying my behavior as pathetic.


So I repeat my question: Which statement did you find more pathetic?


And no, you haven't answered.



I find the fact the you ruined a nice thread pathetic.

*******

I "ruined" your thread by agreeing with you? Yeah, I guess that
probably would just about ruin it as far as you're concerned.

wrote in message
oups.com...
*JimH* Jun 18, 1:30 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: "*JimH*" - Find messages by this author
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:30:50 -0400
Local: Sat,Jun 18 2005 1:30 pm
Subject: A Great Weekend So Far
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse



wrote in message


oups.com...



- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

JimH wrote:

I already told you. You chose not to listen.


*******


No, you didn't.


The only response you made in this thread was:


And you complain about *others* ruining perfectly fine threads Chuck?


This thread *was* about 2 young men, both Marines, that I am proud of
yet
you had to turn it into a political one about the war.


Pretty pathetic Chuck.


*********************


You stated that no matter how one felt about the war, they should
support the troops.
I agreed, and said that while I am against the war I honor the courage
and sacrifice of the troops being ordered to do their duty there. You
responded by charging me with turning your
off-topic thread into an off-topic political thread (thereby ruining
it), and classifying my behavior as pathetic.


So I repeat my question: Which statement did you find more pathetic?


And no, you haven't answered.



I find the fact the you ruined a nice thread pathetic.

*******

I "ruined" your thread by agreeing with you? Yeah, I guess that
probably would just about ruin it as far as you're concerned.


Spin, spin, spin. I knew it was coming.

Go find someone else to antagonize. You are a bitter man Chuck and need to
smell the roses.

Go find someone else to antagonize. You are a bitter man Chuck and need
to
smell the roses.


***********

No doubt the roses, and anything else that thrives on BS, grow
abundantly in Avon Lake. Funny, though, all that seems to waft down the
wind is the scent of fertilizer itself.

On 18 Jun 2005 09:06:11 -0700, wrote:

With all due respect Chuck, the troops are the war. You can't hate
one and love the other - they are one and the same.

**********
And with equal respect, that's not correct.

Surely you remember Viet Nam?

I was there.- '67 through ''69 - 1st Marine Division.

By the end of that mess, something like 80% of the public was sick of
either the flawed motivations for the war or the inept way it was being
prosecuted. When the troops came home, the were often shunned, and
sometimes even abused, by a portion of the people who opposed the war
that the troops had been sent to fight. That was wrong, but the excuse
that the bad actors who gave the troops such grief when they arrived at
home relied on *exactly* the same
logic, (in reverse). "The troops are the war. They cannot be separated.
If you support the troops you must support the war, and if you oppose
the war you cannot respect the draftees that were
hauled off to fight in it."

And they were exactly right.

One of the lessons we should have learned from Viet Nam is that the
troops don't make the policy, they simply go where they are sent and do
the job they are ordered to do. I don't blame the troops for the war
in Iraq. Nobody yearns for peace more than a soldier. I can freely say,
"Mr or Ms Troop, while I disagree with the national foreign policy that
has sent you to fight in Iraq I respect your service to your country
and that you are obeying your orders to do your duty
in a perilous situation. I wish you a safe, and speedy, return."

Wishing somebody a safe and speedy return is entirely different from
honoring and respecting the very people who are paid to kill people
and break stuff. That's most of the problem I see when I talk to
troopers who return - the problem of reconciling the warrior's code
with peace, love and happiness.

You cannot separate the two - war is the army - it's the reason an
army exists - it has no other function in society. It's been that way
since the first protohumans began fighting over the T REX that one
gang found and killed. Sometimes it takes an old grunt like me to put
it into perspective for them.

I've spent a lot of time studying war and have come to believe that it
is the essential state of civilization - without it, we would still be
living in caves. All things are, in fact, conflict of one sort or
another after all.

I suspect that we will not come to a meeting of the minds on this
issue, so we will have to agree to disagree. :)

All the best,

Tom

HarryKrause wrote:
Don White wrote:

wrote:

Go find someone else to antagonize. You are a bitter man Chuck and need
to
smell the roses.


***********

No doubt the roses, and anything else that thrives on BS, grow
abundantly in Avon Lake. Funny, though, all that seems to waft down the
wind is the scent of fertilizer itself.


Hee hee...let's see JimH preach around that!




Chuck is much more polite than I am. I would have said that Boatless
Hertvik *is* B.S., not just that he spews it.


Sometimes you just gotta 'call a spade a spade'. Chuck tries to reason
with JimH, but all he gets is more crap thrown his way. The Bible does
say 'turn the other cheek'.......but not how many times.

HarryKrause wrote:


I just love how Hertvik has created his "Poor Poor Pitiful Me Victim"
persona, which involves me driving doing something awful to Hertvik and
his long-suffering wife, and that I "stalked" him by outing his fake
"Dennis Compton" ID, and by finding a photo of his house on his town's
website.

Wonder what he's so nervous about? If anyone was that interested,
I'd send them a picture of my house........except maybe Tuuk.

HarryKrause wrote:
snip...

Speaking of Tuuu,,,,k, you think he's back in his home country, managing
the family business?


Wouldn't suprise me at all. His family would not be impressed by his
antics over here.

JimH wrote:
Despite your feelings about the war please keep all our men and women
serving in our Armed Forces in your prayers


Chuck Gould responded:
The war, along with the people who deliberately lied us into it and are
now profiting from it is crap



Ergo, Chuck Gould is a piece of ****.

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...

D'oh. The evidence is mounting that Bush had the "intel" evidence "cooked"
to support his positions before he had it passed along to members of
Congress.

Evidence? You mean the Downing Street Memos?

"The eight memos - all labeled "secret" or "confidential" - were first
obtained by British reporter Michael Smith, who has written about them in
The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Times.
Smith told AP he protected the identity of the source he had obtained the
documents from by typing copies of them on plain paper and destroying the
originals."



He burned the originals to protect the source? LOL! You would think a
"reporter" in the UK would follow the news from around the globe and see
what happened to a very famous (now notoriuous) news anchor from CBS who
tried to run the same scam.

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
John H wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 08:31:03 -0400, HarryKrause
wrote:


John H wrote:

On 17 Jun 2005 21:32:26 -0700, wrote:



Despite your feelings about the war please keep all our men and women
serving in our Armed Forces in your prayers

*********

The war, along with the people who deliberately lied us into it and are
now profiting from it is crap.

The young men and women who do their duty there
are heroic. Each one killed, wounded, or separated
on multiple extended tours from home and family is a national tragedy.

Screw the war, but honor the troops. It is possible to do both at once.
People who feel that we must despise the troops because they are forced
to serve in a bogus war as well as people who feel that we cannot
respect and value the troops without cheering for the
war itself are all wrong.


Deliberately lied? You're turning into a regular krausite!

You seem to forget:



"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
destruction
and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002


D'oh. The evidence is mounting that Bush had the "intel" evidence
"cooked" to support his positions before he had it passed along to
members of Congress.

In other words, he had the "intel" changed to support his predisposition
to invade Iraq.

There is good coming out of Bush's dirty war. He's a half year into his
term and he's becoming a lame duck. Taht's good for America and good for
the world.


Duh...bull****.


You don't believe Bush is becoming a lame duck?

I don't. According to the most accurate pollster in the last 2 Presidential
elections (Rasmussen), Bush's approval rating is still at 49%. Given the
margin of error of the poll, that means that he continues to have the
support of almost the exact same number of people who voted for him last
November. Nothing has changed. He was a strong political ally to
politicians in elections all over the country in November...and will
continue to be an important ally for those who are up for reelection in
2006.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Now, go have a great day!

********

I will.

Tell me, John, which of the people on that carefully selected list of
Democrats was Commander in Chief and had the *power* to commit the
troops to battle?

This one:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That
is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We
want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

wrote in message
ups.com...
With all due respect Chuck, the troops are the war. You can't hate
one and love the other - they are one and the same.

**********
And with equal respect, that's not correct.

Surely you remember Viet Nam?

As unpopular as you *claim* that this war in Iraq is, the soldiers continue
to come home to a hero's welcome all over the country. You will stand in a
very small minority if you continue to denigrate the job that they're doing
over there.