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( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10359
Extract For the past year and a half, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, USA Today, Newsday, The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, The Christian Science Monitor and other leading newspapers have repeatedly quoted unnamed U.S. intelligence officials boasting about the use of torture and other ill treatment of prisoners. Numerous detainees have been killed or attempted suicide in custody in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo Bay, prompting unprecedented expressions of concern by the International Committee of the Red Cross; suspects have been turned over to the foreign intelligence services of countries, such as Syria, with records of brutal torture; the ICRC has also specifically expressed concern about conditions at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq; and now, the U.S. military's own inquiry has found "systemic and illegal abuse of detainees" at Abu Ghraib. ................. This pattern of conduct has caused extraordinary damage to the cause of human rights around the world, as well as to the United States and to its ability to conduct foreign policy successfully, from Iraq to the global campaign against terrorism. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
Jim wrote:
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10359 Extract For the past year and a half, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, USA Today, Newsday, The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, The Christian Science Monitor and other leading newspapers have repeatedly quoted unnamed U.S. intelligence officials boasting about the use of torture and other ill treatment of prisoners. Numerous detainees have been killed or attempted suicide in custody in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo Bay, prompting unprecedented expressions of concern by the International Committee of the Red Cross; suspects have been turned over to the foreign intelligence services of countries, such as Syria, with records of brutal torture; the ICRC has also specifically expressed concern about conditions at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq; and now, the U.S. military's own inquiry has found "systemic and illegal abuse of detainees" at Abu Ghraib. ................ This pattern of conduct has caused extraordinary damage to the cause of human rights around the world, as well as to the United States and to its ability to conduct foreign policy successfully, from Iraq to the global campaign against terrorism. Repugs don't care about that...just ask Happy Toof |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Jim wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10359 Extract For the past year and a half, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, USA Today, Newsday, The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, The Christian Science Monitor and other leading newspapers have repeatedly quoted unnamed U.S. intelligence officials boasting about the use of torture and other ill treatment of prisoners. Numerous detainees have been killed or attempted suicide in custody in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo Bay, prompting unprecedented expressions of concern by the International Committee of the Red Cross; suspects have been turned over to the foreign intelligence services of countries, such as Syria, with records of brutal torture; the ICRC has also specifically expressed concern about conditions at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq; and now, the U.S. military's own inquiry has found "systemic and illegal abuse of detainees" at Abu Ghraib. ................ This pattern of conduct has caused extraordinary damage to the cause of human rights around the world, as well as to the United States and to its ability to conduct foreign policy successfully, from Iraq to the global campaign against terrorism. Repugs don't care about that...just ask Happy Toof Hey, dat's me! Yeah, Harry's right...I don't care what the World thinks. If torturing those guys saved one American life, then it was worth it. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"NOYB" ... Hey, dat's me! Yeah, Harry's right...I don't care what the World thinks. If torturing those guys saved one American life, then it was worth it. If your son or daughter were captured would you accept reciprocity. -rick- |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"-rick-" wrote in message ... "NOYB" ... Hey, dat's me! Yeah, Harry's right...I don't care what the World thinks. If torturing those guys saved one American life, then it was worth it. If your son or daughter were captured would you accept reciprocity. The enemy has already demonstrated how they treat (mistreat) hostages. Do I need to link you to the pictures? They're still pretty vivid in my mind. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
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( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
Instead it killed an American Civilian... A man in Iraq for no other reason
than to help rebuild, to make life better for Iraqi people... No, the Iraqi didn't kill him, he was killed by the real enemy, the ones we are supposed to be at war with... He was killed by al-Qaida... An American killed, his head cut off. His body left alongside a bridge in Baghdad. Saved 1 American life... No, it caused an innocent to die. You flipping right wing jack asses seem to think we should go to any means to complete the fantasy your leader has, yet it is costing innocent lives. American Innocent, Iraqi Innocent, it doesn't matter, it has to stop. Nick Berg from Pennsylvania.... Remember that name as you praise the people that torture. His mother - Suzanne His Father - Michael His Sister - Sarah His Brother - David Remember these 5 names as you praise the work of the current administration, remember them as you open your eyes to see the failed policy, the needless deaths. It must end, America must withdraw, the killing must come to an end. "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Jim wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10359 Hey, dat's me! Yeah, Harry's right...I don't care what the World thinks. If torturing those guys saved one American life, then it was worth it. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
On Tue, 11 May 2004 22:31:55 GMT, wrote:
Instead it killed an American Civilian... A man in Iraq for no other reason than to help rebuild, to make life better for Iraqi people... No, the Iraqi didn't kill him, he was killed by the real enemy, the ones we are supposed to be at war with... He was killed by al-Qaida... An American killed, his head cut off. His body left alongside a bridge in Baghdad. Saved 1 American life... No, it caused an innocent to die. You flipping right wing jack asses seem to think we should go to any means to complete the fantasy your leader has, yet it is costing innocent lives. American Innocent, Iraqi Innocent, it doesn't matter, it has to stop. Nick Berg from Pennsylvania.... Remember that name as you praise the people that torture. His mother - Suzanne His Father - Michael His Sister - Sarah His Brother - David Remember these 5 names as you praise the work of the current administration, remember them as you open your eyes to see the failed policy, the needless deaths. It must end, America must withdraw, the killing must come to an end. "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Jim wrote: http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10359 Hey, dat's me! Yeah, Harry's right...I don't care what the World thinks. If torturing those guys saved one American life, then it was worth it. Don't forget the 3000 from 9/11. Or are they forgotten now? Or maybe that was because of Bush too? Weren't we "withdrawn" then? Yup, it's our fault. Bull****. http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/h...0405120104.htm "My name is Nick Burg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Susan," the man said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ...Philaphedelia." After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" "God is great." They then held the head out before the camera. "For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused," one of the men read from a statement. "So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us, but coffins after coffins ...slaughtered in this way." Note the "rationale" for this beheading. The word "retribution" was added by the American media. Yet you show no anger, except towards the American government. Freedom is a bitch, isn't it? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
John
You right winged jack ass, September 11, 2001 was done by al-Qaida... What does that have to do with an unjust war in Iraq? Not a freaking thing. Yes we lost almost 3000 that day... Go to war against those that caused that day to happen, not against the people of Iraq. It is clear, by the name of the suposed man involved with Saturday's travesty that al-Qaida is the enemy. al-Qaida is the one trying to kill Americans al-Qaida is the one killing innocent Americans al-Qaida is the one we are at war with America wouldn't negotiate with these criminals, America wouldn't do anything to help save this mans life, America thought him to be expendable. Not my America, only yours. My America would have taken the time needed to find where this man was, then mow down the full lot of them including the prisoners they wanted released. My America would have brought this man home safe. I'm not sure what America you live in, but I want nothing to do with any America that thinks any AMERICAN is expendable. Remember these people, as they deserve to be remembered... They have paid the ultimate price for you to sit on your right winged ass and say they aren't worth it. Nick Berg from Pennsylvania.... Remember that name as you praise the people that torture. His mother - Suzanne His Father - Michael His Sister - Sarah His Brother - David Remember these 5 names as you praise the work of the current administration, remember them as you open your eyes to see the failed policy, the needless deaths. It must end, America must withdraw, the killing must come to an end. I pity you "John H" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 May 2004 22:31:55 GMT, wrote: Don't forget the 3000 from 9/11. Or are they forgotten now? Or maybe that was because of Bush too? Weren't we "withdrawn" then? Yup, it's our fault. Bull****. Note the "rationale" for this beheading. The word "retribution" was added by the American media. Yet you show no anger, except towards the American government. Freedom is a bitch, isn't it? John H |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
wrote in message ink.net... Instead it killed an American Civilian... A man in Iraq for no other reason than to help rebuild, to make life better for Iraqi people... No, the Iraqi didn't kill him, he was killed by the real enemy, the ones we are supposed to be at war with... He was killed by al-Qaida... An American killed, his head cut off. His body left alongside a bridge in Baghdad. Saved 1 American life... No, it caused an innocent to die. Which pictures caused the four guys to be hacked up in Fallujah? Which pictures caused Daniel Pearl's head to be cut off? Those events happened long before the Abu Ghraib incident. You're a jackass if you think the Abu Ghraib pics caused Nick Berg's death. Radical Muslims want us dead. The argument that our troop's actions are creating new radical fundamentalists each day is ridiculous. If Islam is a peace-loving religion, a few hundred pics of naked Iraqis isn't going to turn the moderates into radicals. There are no moderate, peace-loving Muslims...which makes it easy to decide who gets bombed next. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
wrote in message nk.net... John You right winged jack ass, September 11, 2001 was done by al-Qaida... What does that have to do with an unjust war in Iraq? In February 2003, Colin Powell made the case before the UN that al Zaqawi was in control of an Iraqi al Qaeda group. The nexus with Al Qaeda, Mr. Powell said, originates with a branch headed by Abu Massab al-Zaqawi, a senior associate of Osama bin Laden. He said Mr. Zaqawi has a camp in the northeastern corner of Kurdish Iraq teaching terrorist operatives how to produce ricin and other extremely lethal chemicals. He said Mr. Zaqawi has received medical treatment in Baghdad and that there are also other Zaqawi brigades operating in Baghdad. "From his terrorist network in Iraq, Zaqawi can direct his terrorist network in the Middle East and beyond," Mr. Powell said. He also accused Mr. Zaqawi of providing money and weapons used in the murder of Lawrence Foley, an employee with the Agency for International Development, in Amman, Jordan last October. He noted that "Al Qaeda continues to have deep interest in acquiring weapons of mass destruction" and that Qaeda operatives trained with chemical weapons in Iraq between 1997 and 2000." Now, al Zaqawi is leading the terrorist attacks against coalition troops, civilians, and oil pipelines and rigs in the region. It doesn't take a genius to see the relation. Not a freaking thing. Must be nice living in denial. Everything's peachy-keen there, eh? Yes we lost almost 3000 that day... Go to war against those that caused that day to happen, not against the people of Iraq. The people who made 9/11 happen are the ones who are trying to kill our troops in Iraq. It is clear, by the name of the suposed man involved with Saturday's travesty that al-Qaida is the enemy. Well, no **** Sherlock. al-Qaida is the one trying to kill Americans al-Qaida is the one killing innocent Americans al-Qaida is the one we are at war with al Qaida has a heavy presence in Iraq...now...and before the war. America wouldn't negotiate with these criminals, America wouldn't do anything to help save this mans life, America thought him to be expendable. What would you have had America to do? Leave Iraq? As if that would have worked... You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you said he was killed because of what happened in Abu Ghraib. Then you said he was killed because America wouldn't help him. If he was killed because of Abu Ghraid, then there was nothing we could have done anyhow. Right? Not my America, only yours. My America would have taken the time needed to find where this man was, then mow down the full lot of them including the prisoners they wanted released. The tape lasted a little over 5 minutes. It would have been a helluva feat to locate the terrorists and kill 'em before the last 30 seconds of it. My America would have brought this man home safe. I'm not sure what America you live in, but I want nothing to do with any America that thinks any AMERICAN is expendable. Remember these people, as they deserve to be remembered... They have paid the ultimate price for you to sit on your right winged ass and say they aren't worth it. Nick Berg from Pennsylvania.... Remember that name as you praise the people that torture. His mother - Suzanne His Father - Michael His Sister - Sarah His Brother - David Remember these 5 names as you praise the work of the current administration, remember them as you open your eyes to see the failed policy, the needless deaths. It must end, America must withdraw, the killing must come to an end. I pity you The killing will only continue. However, it will be in NY, and LA, and Chicago, and Washington...instead of Baghdad, Fallujah, Basra, and Najaf. No thanks. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
NOYB wrote:
Radical Muslims want us dead. The argument that our troop's actions are creating new radical fundamentalists each day is ridiculous. Umm, no. It is a pretty easily verifiable fact. ... If Islam is a peace-loving religion, a few hundred pics of naked Iraqis isn't going to turn the moderates into radicals. There are no moderate, peace-loving Muslims...which makes it easy to decide who gets bombed next. So you love President George Bush because he is leading the U.S. step by step into a holy war to exterminate all Muslims? That'll make a great Republican campaign plank. DSK |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"NOYB" wrote in message ...
"-rick-" wrote in message ... "NOYB" ... Hey, dat's me! Yeah, Harry's right...I don't care what the World thinks. If torturing those guys saved one American life, then it was worth it. If your son or daughter were captured would you accept reciprocity. The enemy has already demonstrated how they treat (mistreat) hostages. Do I need to link you to the pictures? They're still pretty vivid in my mind. They are only the enemy because we invaded their country. How would YOU treat, let's say, the Chinese "coalition", if they decided that they needed to invade our country, with enough troops to totally occupy it, because they claimed that we had weapons of mass destruction, no wait, that we harbored and helped Al Quida, not wait, that we were planning on invading them with cardboard aircraft, no wait, that Saddam is bad, no wait, because they are evil-doers?? |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
On Wed, 12 May 2004 00:23:36 -0400, NOYB wrote:
In February 2003, Colin Powell made the case before the UN that al Zaqawi was in control of an Iraqi al Qaeda group. While al-Zarqawi is definitely anti-American, some analysts dispute that he is al Qaeda. Oh, and much of his terrorist training was under the watchful eye of our very own CIA in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets. You have to love the foresight exhibited by our trusty spooks. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3483089.stm The nexus with Al Qaeda, Mr. Powell said, originates with a branch headed by Abu Massab al-Zaqawi, a senior associate of Osama bin Laden. He said Mr. Zaqawi has a camp in the northeastern corner of Kurdish Iraq teaching terrorist operatives how to produce ricin and other extremely lethal chemicals. Just to remind you, Kurdish Iraq was in the US defined "no-fly zone", where al-Zarqawi was protected from Saddam, by *us*. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: wrote in message nk.net... John You right winged jack ass, September 11, 2001 was done by al-Qaida... What does that have to do with an unjust war in Iraq? In February 2003, Colin Powell made the case before the UN that al Zaqawi was in control of an Iraqi al Qaeda group. Much as I respect Powell's intellect, the fact is that whether innocently or in collusion with the Bush-****ters, he presented a significant amount of false or incorrect intel to the UN and others. It seems as if he was pretty accurate, however, about al Zaqawi and the al Qaeda faction already in northeastern Iraq prior to the war. Haven't you figured out by now that much of the intel on which the Bush-****ters rely is just plain bad, or false? And, worse, among the intel pickings the Bush-****ters see, they tend to believe and endorse that which seems to support their concepts of war-mongering and dismiss that which should point them in a different direction. In summary, it is clear that when it comes to intel, we don't have much that is reliable, and to the guys in the Bush-****ter administration who are "interpreting" it, well, that simply doesn't matter. I'm still convinced that the bulk of the WMD stockpiles were destroyed or hidden in the sand just prior to the war...and the remainder of the bio and chemical technology (the stuff that was easier to transport discreetly) was shipped to Syria. But this discussion isn't about the WMD claims. It's about Powell stating that al Zaqawi was al Qaeda's leader operating in Iraq prior to the war. Now the guy is blowing up oil rigs off the coast, pil pipelines in the desert, and kidnapping and beheading Westerners. I'd say that's a pretty strong smoking gun showing that al Qaeda was in Iraq working with Hussein (or at least with his knowledge) prior to our invasion. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Wed, 12 May 2004 00:23:36 -0400, NOYB wrote: In February 2003, Colin Powell made the case before the UN that al Zaqawi was in control of an Iraqi al Qaeda group. While al-Zarqawi is definitely anti-American, some analysts dispute that he is al Qaeda. Which "analysts"? The ones quoted by al Jazeera? Oh, and much of his terrorist training was under the watchful eye of our very own CIA in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets. You have to love the foresight exhibited by our trusty spooks. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3483089.stm Your referenced website seems to refute your claim that al Zaqawi isn't linked to al Qaeda. Do you have any others that say he isn't al Qaeda? The nexus with Al Qaeda, Mr. Powell said, originates with a branch headed by Abu Massab al-Zaqawi, a senior associate of Osama bin Laden. He said Mr. Zaqawi has a camp in the northeastern corner of Kurdish Iraq teaching terrorist operatives how to produce ricin and other extremely lethal chemicals. Just to remind you, Kurdish Iraq was in the US defined "no-fly zone", where al-Zarqawi was protected from Saddam, by *us*. Iraq was violating the no-fly zones. Nevertheless, you don't need to fly airplanes over northeastern Iraq in order to maintain contact with the psycho operating up there. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"DSK" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: Radical Muslims want us dead. The argument that our troop's actions are creating new radical fundamentalists each day is ridiculous. Umm, no. It is a pretty easily verifiable fact. Whooosh! You obviously missed the point. A *peaceful* Muslim doesn't become a cold-blooded suicide bomber because of a few pictures of naked Iraqis. America's actions are simply exposing the sleeper groups of radicals who have been posing as "moderates". Did you notice how very few "moderate" Muslim clerics denounced the killing of Berg? ... If Islam is a peace-loving religion, a few hundred pics of naked Iraqis isn't going to turn the moderates into radicals. There are no moderate, peace-loving Muslims...which makes it easy to decide who gets bombed next. So you love President George Bush because he is leading the U.S. step by step into a holy war to exterminate all Muslims? That'll make a great Republican campaign plank. The Crusades in the 11th, 12th, and 13th century were preceded by Mohammed's persecution of infidels. Remember that we didn't start this war. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
NOYB wrote:
Whooosh! You obviously missed the point. A *peaceful* Muslim doesn't become a cold-blooded suicide bomber because of a few pictures of naked Iraqis. America's actions are simply exposing the sleeper groups of radicals who have been posing as "moderates". You really believe this? Oh yeah, and you really believe there really are *still* WMDs. I guess I'm not going to ask your opinion on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. So you love President George Bush because he is leading the U.S. step by step into a holy war to exterminate all Muslims? That'll make a great Republican campaign plank. The Crusades in the 11th, 12th, and 13th century were preceded by Mohammed's persecution of infidels. In other words, yes? I hope that you and your fellow Bush cheerleaders go around shouting this from rooftops. Don't be afraid to tell the truth! ... Remember that we didn't start this war. I agree, "we" didn't. Dick Cheney started it so that his clique of military contractors, headed by Halliburton, would reap enormous profits (Halliburton profits up something like 600% last year, check the news). If you are talking about the war on terrorism, I'd agree again. But invading Iraq is not about terrorism, and actually has weakened the US tremendously. It's all about oil, as you pointed out yesterday. DSK |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"DSK" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: Whooosh! You obviously missed the point. A *peaceful* Muslim doesn't become a cold-blooded suicide bomber because of a few pictures of naked Iraqis. America's actions are simply exposing the sleeper groups of radicals who have been posing as "moderates". You really believe this? Oh yeah, and you really believe there really are *still* WMDs. I guess I'm not going to ask your opinion on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. So you love President George Bush because he is leading the U.S. step by step into a holy war to exterminate all Muslims? That'll make a great Republican campaign plank. The Crusades in the 11th, 12th, and 13th century were preceded by Mohammed's persecution of infidels. In other words, yes? I hope that you and your fellow Bush cheerleaders go around shouting this from rooftops. Don't be afraid to tell the truth! ... Remember that we didn't start this war. I agree, "we" didn't. Dick Cheney started it so that his clique of military contractors, headed by Halliburton, would reap enormous profits (Halliburton profits up something like 600% last year, check the news). If you are talking about the war on terrorism, I'd agree again. But invading Iraq is not about terrorism, and actually has weakened the US tremendously. It's all about oil, as you pointed out yesterday. No, I pointed out that oil is one of the major reasons we went into Iraq before Syria or Iran. But it's not *the* reason. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:31:00 GMT, wrote:
John You right winged jack ass, September 11, 2001 was done by al-Qaida... What does that have to do with an unjust war in Iraq? Not a freaking thing. Yes we lost almost 3000 that day... Go to war against those that caused that day to happen, not against the people of Iraq. It is clear, by the name of the suposed man involved with Saturday's travesty that al-Qaida is the enemy. al-Qaida is the one trying to kill Americans al-Qaida is the one killing innocent Americans al-Qaida is the one we are at war with America wouldn't negotiate with these criminals, America wouldn't do anything to help save this mans life, America thought him to be expendable. Not my America, only yours. My America would have taken the time needed to find where this man was, then mow down the full lot of them including the prisoners they wanted released. My America would have brought this man home safe. I'm not sure what America you live in, but I want nothing to do with any America that thinks any AMERICAN is expendable. You think we should negotiate with these folks? You think these people are rationale enough to make and keep an agreement? Do you think America hasn't been looking for the individual who committed this murder? How do you know what America was doing? John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
On Wed, 12 May 2004 16:54:10 +0000, NOYB wrote:
No, I pointed out that oil is one of the major reasons we went into Iraq before Syria or Iran. But it's not *the* reason. "American intelligence and State Department officials have told me that by early 2002 Syria had emerged as one of the C.I.A.'s most effective intelligence allies in the fight against Al Qaeda, providing an outpouring of information that came to an end only with the invasion of Iraq." http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030728fa_fact |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
On Wed, 12 May 2004 14:23:43 +0000, NOYB wrote:
While al-Zarqawi is definitely anti-American, some analysts dispute that he is al Qaeda. Your referenced website seems to refute your claim that al Zaqawi isn't linked to al Qaeda. Do you have any others that say he isn't al Qaeda? Uhh, I never claimed any such thing. I posted a link that said, amongst other things, "...Zarqawi's historical rivalry with Bin Laden." No doubt, Zarqawi's and bin Ladens anti-American aganda is similar and dangerous, but the jury is still out on whether he *is* al Qaeda. Iraq was violating the no-fly zones. Nevertheless, you don't need to fly airplanes over northeastern Iraq in order to maintain contact with the psycho operating up there. True, but Zarqawi's linkage to the CIA is a lot clearer that to Saddam. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Wed, 12 May 2004 16:54:10 +0000, NOYB wrote: No, I pointed out that oil is one of the major reasons we went into Iraq before Syria or Iran. But it's not *the* reason. "American intelligence and State Department officials have told me that by early 2002 Syria had emerged as one of the C.I.A.'s most effective intelligence allies in the fight against Al Qaeda, providing an outpouring of information that came to an end only with the invasion of Iraq." http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030728fa_fact "The intelligence coöperation on Al Qaeda was important and effective," said Martin Indyk, who served as Ambassador to Israel in the Clinton Administration and is now director of the Saban Center. "But the Syrians thought it would compensate for all their other games with Iraq and the Palestinian terror organizations, and it doesn't." |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Wed, 12 May 2004 14:23:43 +0000, NOYB wrote: While al-Zarqawi is definitely anti-American, some analysts dispute that he is al Qaeda. Your referenced website seems to refute your claim that al Zaqawi isn't linked to al Qaeda. Do you have any others that say he isn't al Qaeda? Uhh, I never claimed any such thing. I posted a link that said, amongst other things, "...Zarqawi's historical rivalry with Bin Laden." No doubt, Zarqawi's and bin Ladens anti-American aganda is similar and dangerous, but the jury is still out on whether he *is* al Qaeda. Iraq was violating the no-fly zones. Nevertheless, you don't need to fly airplanes over northeastern Iraq in order to maintain contact with the psycho operating up there. True, but Zarqawi's linkage to the CIA is a lot clearer that to Saddam. Not in September '01. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
John
America refused to negotiate, Mr. Berg is now dead. America could negotiate, Say yes we will make the trade. Meet with the terrorists to make the trade, and kill every one of them. We would have gotten Mr. Berg back. "John H" wrote in message ... On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:31:00 GMT, wrote: You think we should negotiate with these folks? You think these people are rationale enough to make and keep an agreement? Do you think America hasn't been looking for the individual who committed this murder? How do you know what America was doing? John H |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
On Thu, 13 May 2004 17:52:27 GMT, wrote:
John America refused to negotiate, Mr. Berg is now dead. America could negotiate, Say yes we will make the trade. Meet with the terrorists to make the trade, and kill every one of them. We would have gotten Mr. Berg back. "John H" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:31:00 GMT, wrote: You think we should negotiate with these folks? You think these people are rationale enough to make and keep an agreement? Do you think America hasn't been looking for the individual who committed this murder? How do you know what America was doing? John H At which time the administration would be ripped for negotiating with terrorists, telling lies, and murder. And we would still not have saved Berg, who would most likely not have been alive anyway. You seem to think we're dealing with honorable people. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
With the current administration??? I have given up on any of this crap being
honorable "John H" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 May 2004 17:52:27 GMT, wrote: John America refused to negotiate, Mr. Berg is now dead. America could negotiate, Say yes we will make the trade. Meet with the terrorists to make the trade, and kill every one of them. We would have gotten Mr. Berg back. "John H" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:31:00 GMT, wrote: You think we should negotiate with these folks? You think these people are rationale enough to make and keep an agreement? Do you think America hasn't been looking for the individual who committed this murder? How do you know what America was doing? John H At which time the administration would be ripped for negotiating with terrorists, telling lies, and murder. And we would still not have saved Berg, who would most likely not have been alive anyway. You seem to think we're dealing with honorable people. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
John H wrote:
On Thu, 13 May 2004 17:52:27 GMT, wrote: John America refused to negotiate, Mr. Berg is now dead. America could negotiate, Say yes we will make the trade. Meet with the terrorists to make the trade, and kill every one of them. We would have gotten Mr. Berg back. "John H" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:31:00 GMT, wrote: You think we should negotiate with these folks? You think these people are rationale enough to make and keep an agreement? Do you think America hasn't been looking for the individual who committed this murder? How do you know what America was doing? John H At which time the administration would be ripped for negotiating with terrorists, telling lies, and murder. And we would still not have saved Berg, who would most likely not have been alive anyway. You seem to think we're dealing with honorable people. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! Uh...The Bush mis-Administration is anything but honorable. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
On Thu, 13 May 2004 19:08:25 GMT, wrote:
With the current administration??? I have given up on any of this crap being honorable With Al Quaeda. I'm hoping you are not so dense as to have missed that. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
wrote in message news:E%foc.2662 You right winged jack ass, September 11, 2001 was done by al-Qaida... What does that have to do with an unjust war in Iraq? Not a freaking thing. Anyone who thinks there has not been connection and coordination between Iraq and al Qaida is a naive fool. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
John Gaquin wrote:
Anyone who thinks there has not been connection and coordination between Iraq and al Qaida is a naive fool. Why? Because Rush Limbaugh and the Bush/Cheney campaign ads have worked very very hard to convince you there is a connection? Guess what... they fooled you. There isn't one. If Bush had proof, he'd be using more of that big fat $200 million advertising budget to make sure that every man, woman, and child on planet Earth knew all about it. But he can't, because it doesn't exist. So far, there are only 3 things that indicate a connection: 1- a meeting between an al-Queda member and an Iraqi intelligence officer in Czechoslovakia, which most analysts now believe never happened. 2- Al-Zarqawi, likely murderer of Nick Berg, living & operating in Iraq... but wait, it's been proven that he spent most of his time before the invasion in the Kurdish zone... our friends, the Kurds, who hated Saddam and were fighting against him 3- garish posters of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers hanging on several walls, glorifying the terrorists. That's it. That's all of it. Now who is a "niave fool"... the eprson who looks at the facts and says, "Gosh, not much there" or the person who blows a lot of gas based on hype & hints (and let's not forget the outright lies)? DSK |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
DSK wrote:
John Gaquin wrote: Anyone who thinks there has not been connection and coordination between Iraq and al Qaida is a naive fool. Why? Because Rush Limbaugh and the Bush/Cheney campaign ads have worked very very hard to convince you there is a connection? Guess what... they fooled you. There isn't one. If Bush had proof, he'd be using more of that big fat $200 million advertising budget to make sure that every man, woman, and child on planet Earth knew all about it. But he can't, because it doesn't exist. So far, there are only 3 things that indicate a connection: 1- a meeting between an al-Queda member and an Iraqi intelligence officer in Czechoslovakia, which most analysts now believe never happened. 2- Al-Zarqawi, likely murderer of Nick Berg, living & operating in Iraq... but wait, it's been proven that he spent most of his time before the invasion in the Kurdish zone... our friends, the Kurds, who hated Saddam and were fighting against him 3- garish posters of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers hanging on several walls, glorifying the terrorists. That's it. That's all of it. Now who is a "niave fool"... the eprson who looks at the facts and says, "Gosh, not much there" or the person who blows a lot of gas based on hype & hints (and let's not forget the outright lies)? DSK DSK I'm so jealous. 1. I didn't say it first. 2. I couldn't have said it better. -- _______m___õ¿~___m_________________________ "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." - oath of office- We need a president that will keep this promise. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"DSK" wrote in message news:wcUoc.11671 So far, there are only 3 things that indicate a connection: God, the innocence! You know, there isn't always a notarized document. I've lived and worked there. I've had to deal with them. I stand by my original statement. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"____m___~¿Ô___m____" wrote in message Still haven't figured out how to write your name. Sad. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
John Gaquin wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message news:wcUoc.11671 So far, there are only 3 things that indicate a connection: God, the innocence! You know, there isn't always a notarized document. I've lived and worked there. I've had to deal with them. You're probably one of the reasons why so many Moslems hate us...you're the Ugly American. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... You're probably one of the reasons why so many Moslems hate us...you're the Ugly American. Harry it sounds like you are the extremist and definitely a Ugly American, aren't you the one who said the following: "Right. If you are talking about the so-called Palestinian terror against Israel, the only way to stop it is to put the head of *every* so-called Palestinian terrorist, beginning with Arafat, on a pike. But it is true if you want Osama, the most *efficient* way to get him is via the MOSSAD. Afghanistan isn't Panama, and Osama isn't Noriega. We don't have operatives like the MOSSAD has." (Harry Krause - 11/1/2001) At one time you were endorsing terrorist behavior and torture, now you want to blame Bush personally because of some stupid and ineffective methods of interrogation. At least they never put anyone's head on pike. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
On Fri, 14 May 2004 13:00:50 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... You're probably one of the reasons why so many Moslems hate us...you're the Ugly American. Harry it sounds like you are the extremist and definitely a Ugly American, aren't you the one who said the following: "Right. If you are talking about the so-called Palestinian terror against Israel, the only way to stop it is to put the head of *every* so-called Palestinian terrorist, beginning with Arafat, on a pike. But it is true if you want Osama, the most *efficient* way to get him is via the MOSSAD. Afghanistan isn't Panama, and Osama isn't Noriega. We don't have operatives like the MOSSAD has." (Harry Krause - 11/1/2001) At one time you were endorsing terrorist behavior and torture, now you want to blame Bush personally because of some stupid and ineffective methods of interrogation. At least they never put anyone's head on pike. If Gore were president right now, and this stuff were going on, you'd hear nothing but justification for these acts. That is, for the one and only day that this sort of news story would have gotten air time in an obviously biased and agenda driven news media. If anyone still doubts that this story is nothing more than attempts to further smear the president, I'd suggest that you are more than just a little naive..... Dave |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
Well I guess we have located the naive fool
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in573801.shtml President Bush and other administration officials have recently acknowledged there are no links between Saddam and Sept. 11. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...030131-23.html Q One question for you both. Do you believe that there is a link between Saddam Hussein, a direct link, and the men who attacked on September the 11th? THE PRESIDENT: I can't make that claim. "John Gaquin" wrote in message ... wrote in message news:E%foc.2662 You right winged jack ass, September 11, 2001 was done by al-Qaida... What does that have to do with an unjust war in Iraq? Not a freaking thing. Anyone who thinks there has not been connection and coordination between Iraq and al Qaida is a naive fool. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
I agree, "we" didn't. Dick Cheney started it so that his clique of military contractors, headed by Halliburton, would reap enormous profits (Halliburton profits up something like 600% last year, check the news). RANT ON! DO you really believe this? That a senior official of ANY administration would jeopardize their position and livelyhood by starting a war that has no preordained outcome. That by going into it, they would anatagonize about 50% of the population and cause the LeftMedia to attack him/her at every opportunity Cheny is a rich man, he had the wherewithall, perserverence and intelligence to succeed in the upper echelons of big business. This is bad? I thought that was the American dream!!! If you had 10M, 50M, 100M, would you volunteer to serve your country or just retire to the islands and hope the jihad doesn't come there?. He does not need more profits from Hal and neither do most of the other principles and I don't want to here about the mistreated workers, they are making a very good wage. That does not mean that they won't take those profits. Would you give back legally earned money? Believing that this is about the admin trying to enrich their coffers is really out there. Don't you know, the Republicans have all the money and tax breaks, so they don't really need it. |
( OT ) Beyond Apologies (A Coalition Of Nine Human Rights Groups)
wrote in message ink.net... Well I guess we have located the naive fool http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in573801.shtml President Bush and other administration officials have recently acknowledged there are no links between Saddam and Sept. 11. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...030131-23.html Q One question for you both. Do you believe that there is a link between Saddam Hussein, a direct link, and the men who attacked on September the 11th? THE PRESIDENT: I can't make that claim. In January 2003, we had plenty of circumstantial evidence linking them. Bush never said "there's no link". He said "I can't make that claim". That's a pretty big difference. Why don't you look for something more current? Like this, for example: Bush Says Berg's Death Links Hussein, Al Qaeda Reuters Saturday, May 15, 2004; Page A07 MEQUON, Wis., May 14 -- President Bush on Friday blamed al Qaeda supporter Abu Musab Zarqawi for beheading American Nicholas Berg and cited Zarqawi as an example of Saddam Hussein's "terrorist ties" before the U.S.-led war in Iraq. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May14.html --------------------------------------------------------- That will be the message from here until November. "There was a link between Hussein and al Qaeda." |
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