A wave surge isn't causing multi-G shock loads, jackassby.

shows you know not a thing about shock loads and what causes them.

go stand in the corner, and keep quiet. adults are present.

genei, knock it off. you have no idea what the mathematical term catenary
means, nor any idea of the physics behind it, and sure as hell no understanding
just how ******************VERY***************** quickly the forces can become
HUGE.

go sleep it off.

"Gene Kearns"
Date: 9/20/2004 10:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:10:39 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:46:04 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On 18 Sep 2004 21:15:33 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

What happens during the interaction of forces on the rode would be
most fascinating.

a way to simplified look at it is to consider the chain/rode/line to have
zero
weight pulled between two points (say 100 feet apart), then hang a 1#
weight in
the center point and check how much strain it put on the end points when
the
weight hangs 20 feet, then 10 feet, then 5 feet, then 1 foot, then 1 inch,
then
1/10th inch. Just use trig to figure the forces.

So.... we just used intuitive trig to figure out why (1) we use scope
with an anchor and (2) why we don't tie boats to the dock with chain.
Now *that* is some real science......

And your "simplified look" does not apply.... an anchor rode does not
employ both ends at the same "Y" value.... therefore assumptions of
Y=Y'=0 do not obtain and is, therefore, the root cause of your lack
of understanding in this area. There isn't *anything* *attached* to
the middle.

But wouldn't the strain be equal at the arthimetical center and can be
equated to weight? It's really just another to figure energy
transfer, right?

I'm not totaly familiar with this so if I mess this up, it's an
electronic engineer with a math degree playing at mechanics, but
catenary defined means the shape of the line (or in this case rode) as
a curve. A funciton of strain would be weights at either end. Strain
can be defined as stored energy which is, I would think, distributed
evenly along the line to the end points. One way to define how much
strain is being applied would be to add weight to the middle and
measure the deflection.

At that point, it becomes a trig function - yes/no?


Yes. My point is that Jax keeps talking about this particular catenary
(and if properly applied, it isn't truly a catenary) as though both
ends are supported and hanging.... they aren't. The point of the
anchor rode is to fall from the boat at some small angle and end up at
the anchor at least parallel to the sea bed.

*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

*********************ANCHOR

Don't know if this "graphic" will work, but this is what one should
have, not a true catenary..... if this is expected to hold the
anchor.


the forces get out of hand ********VERY******** quickly. Even worse, is
that
the weight in the middle (or chain) has momentum as the boat rocks, so the
"natural" position of the weight overshoots and makes for seriously high
g-loads.


There is no weight "in the middle" (other than the weight of the rode)
.... so you put two anchors on the same rode? Odd.

Using that concept, most people use kellets and think it is a good and
useful idea.

What's a kellet?


A kellet is "that weight" we've been talking about. If you don't
incorporate "the weight" in the anchor rode, via chain, it can be
artificially applied by using a kellet. Weight is what makes the
catenary functional. As the following link describes, once the
catenary is pulled tight enough to start lifting the shank of the
anchor, the holding ability of the anchor *rapidly* decays. The
greater the weight of the rode, the more holding power and (within
reason) the more shock absorbing power .

see:

http://www.anchorbuddy.co.nz/index.html




Later,

Tom

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

JAXAshby wrote:
Y'know, I love the kind of putrid little ****-lick who thinks that being a
seaman is somewhat akin to serving time for a felony conviction.


then you love three quarters of the world's population.

LOL Ya know, Doodles, the more I read of your nonsense, the more I
realize how limited your education, how narrow your knowledge base, and
how pitiful your experience, on all subjects, especially, boating.
Hopefully, you'll never graduate to something larger than your Sunfish,
which will save the taxpayers immense sums, as now, only the various
"harbor patrols" need save your butt when the engine overheats or your
gps goes belly up whilst navigating in some harbor.
( I have this amusing picture of Doodles on a Sunfish with a "seagull"
outboard and large battery bank in the cockpit to run his laptop and
Gps, wandering around some LI harbor ..... lost and in irons)

otn

anyone care to explain just why you guys should not got to jail should you
injury someone with your negligent anchoring practises?

Look around after a squall and see which boats "dragged" anchor (i.e. pulled
their anchors loose by high G-load jerking) and which did not.

drunk drivers who used to "prove" they were not too drunk to drive by stating
that never before had they had an accident now find themselves with stiff jail
sentences for killing someone by driving drunk.

otnmbrd...

-Trust me Bilge ...... having laughed through many a "Doodles" rant on
subjects nautical, I still find it hard to imagine him holding down a "BR"
position.On the one or two trips where he may have gotten out of sight of land,
he MAY have been onboard as ballast or "Norwegian Steam", but that's all.-

Bilge- jaxashby as a "fart-chaser"? Hmmm, maybe that's what his Staten Island
ferry gig is leading up to...a promotion to inventorying other guys' "pecker
tracks".

Reading what passes for his posts, I think I know now what happens when guys
fall asleep in the paint locker.

- Doodles (jaxass) reminds me of my dear, departed, dingbat, aunt, who was
appalled that I would choose to go to sea in "filthy" Merchant ships rather
than in some nice clean Naval ship.
Like my aunt, Doodles, wouldn't know a Merchant ship from a "choo choo
twain".-otnmbrd

Bilge- "But Auntie...I have a toilet of me very own on that ship".

During the run up to Desert Storm, I was on the SS Wright, and for a while, we
were the only civilian ship on the Mina Sulman pier in Bahrein.(Saudi Las
Vegas).

As one would expect, everyone with grease under their fingernails started
"horse-trading". Occassionally we'd get Navy-type "guttersnipes",(I think
that's the term for 'em in Navy vernacular), drop in on our engine room.

There was ALWAYS two reactions you'd get:

1- God...this place is filthy!

and

2-Where the hell IS everybody?

This was especially the case if the swabbies were from the USS LaSalle,
(Persian Gulf Command Ship). One of 'em asked about it once, and after I had
explained the theory and practice of Overtime, and it's effect on Manning
Scale, they seemed to get the picture.

Regards;


Mutiny is a Management Tool
Select Your Tattoo while Sober

Then why are you here?

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
A wave surge isn't causing multi-G shock loads, jackassby.

shows you know not a thing about shock loads and what causes them.

go stand in the corner, and keep quiet. adults are present.

bilge rat, you need to introduce yourself to labomba. the two of you can
sling b/s stories way over the top.

won't be long until you are telling about the night you screwed six virgins,
including three of the five svenssen sisters, while you worked days as a
cropduster just before you became general of the mercenary strike force used in
a certain south american country, later putting out oil well fires.


(Bilgeman)
Date: 9/20/2004 11:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

otnmbrd...

-Trust me Bilge ...... having laughed through many a "Doodles" rant on
subjects nautical, I still find it hard to imagine him holding down a "BR"
position.On the one or two trips where he may have gotten out of sight of
land,
he MAY have been onboard as ballast or "Norwegian Steam", but that's all.-

Bilge- jaxashby as a "fart-chaser"? Hmmm, maybe that's what his Staten Island
ferry gig is leading up to...a promotion to inventorying other guys' "pecker
tracks".

Reading what passes for his posts, I think I know now what happens when guys
fall asleep in the paint locker.

- Doodles (jaxass) reminds me of my dear, departed, dingbat, aunt, who was
appalled that I would choose to go to sea in "filthy" Merchant ships rather
than in some nice clean Naval ship.
Like my aunt, Doodles, wouldn't know a Merchant ship from a "choo choo
twain".-otnmbrd

Bilge- "But Auntie...I have a toilet of me very own on that ship".

During the run up to Desert Storm, I was on the SS Wright, and for a while,
we
were the only civilian ship on the Mina Sulman pier in Bahrein.(Saudi Las
Vegas).

As one would expect, everyone with grease under their fingernails started
"horse-trading". Occassionally we'd get Navy-type "guttersnipes",(I think
that's the term for 'em in Navy vernacular), drop in on our engine room.

There was ALWAYS two reactions you'd get:

1- God...this place is filthy!

and

2-Where the hell IS everybody?

This was especially the case if the swabbies were from the USS LaSalle,
(Persian Gulf Command Ship). One of 'em asked about it once, and after I had
explained the theory and practice of Overtime, and it's effect on Manning
Scale, they seemed to get the picture.

Regards;


Mutiny is a Management Tool
Select Your Tattoo while Sober

jaxashby whines:

-bilge rat, you need to introduce yourself to labomba. the two of you can
sling b/s stories way over the top.-

Bilge- Huh...two seamen + 1 coffeepot = sea stories. For all your supposed
expertise, you don't know one of the most fundamental tenets of Yankee
seamanship?


-won't be long until you are telling about the night you screwed six
virgins,including three of the five svenssen sisters, while you worked days as
a cropduster just before you became general of the mercenary strike force used
in a certain south american country, later putting out oil well
fires.-jaxashby


Bilge-You sound jealous. Did your old lady give some sailor a roll in the hay?
That's a shame, but don't take it out on me...I didn't touch the skank.

GFY


Mutiny is a Management Tool
Select Your Tattoo while Sober

JAXAshby wrote:
yo-yo bilge rat, there is no historical evidence whatsoever that that dude ever
existed.

but, then there is no historical evidence to show you have a brain, either.

Ain't it strange that Christ could left his church in the care of any of his
apostles, among the ones we know of were tax collectors,farmers, tradesmen,
prostitutes(reformed), and fishermen.

There's no need to argue about the existence of Jesus. There's no way to
prove he existed or didn't exist It's sort of like George W. Bush's
"completion" of duties in the National Guard - he either didn't or did,
but there's no way to prove it: you have to accept or deny it on faith
alone.






--
We today have a president of the United States who looks like he is the
son of Howdy Doody or Alfred E. Newman, who isn't smarter than either of
them, who is arrogant about his ignorance, who is reckless and
incompetent, and whose backers are turning the United States into a pariah.

What, me worry?

Catenary is a mathematical "term"? Term?

Yes.

I thought a mathematical
term was any distinct quantity contained in a polynomial.......

you were wrong. again. and again. and again. and again. and again.