On Tue, 10 May 2005 19:13:29 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2005 11:44:50 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
wrote:


I'm in the same situation and am thinking the same thing. Particularly since
the boat I have my eye on is in demand used and has a high resale value
(Grady White Sailfish). I am sure a used boat can be a great deal in some
cases but the joy of something brand new that you have babied from day 1 is
very appealing.

Nah.... what you need is an Express 360....

ps. If someone gave me a Grady 228, I'd take it!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On 10 May 2005 12:14:27 -0700, wrote:

I can only hope! they said it was a low price already and they couldnt
go any lower.. I call bs.

This is not the time of year to get a deal on a boat. In November,
they'll be a lot more "reasonable."

--



I would agree Gene. Asking for a 7 1/2% discount when boating season is
just kicking off is a bit much, especially if the boat is already
discounted.

Well I made a offer and the dealer wouldnt take it.. it's depressing.
The boat was listed for 27K and I offered 25K and they said no. so I
guess I will just wait and try to find a used one somewhere.. wish me
luck!


***********

In any negotiation, the party who prevails will be the one who has the
least emotional need.
Let 'em stew a day or so and take another run at it. You might need to
go to $25,100 to allow some face saving by the seller. If they are
absolutely certain you're not going any higher, they will either sell
you the boat at your price because they can- or turn your business away
because the boat is in short supply and they're willing to gamble that
the next buyer will pay a bit more. (If they're going to turn somebody
away, better its the guy willing to pay $25k than the guy willing to
pay $26.5). There may not be a lot of ham on the bone at $27k on that
boat if it's a price leader and already discounted, but you'd have to
think they'd wash out OK at $25k, if motivated.

Key: pretend to lose interest, and they will become much more willing
to deal.
He who stands around twitching and salivating gets sheared every time.
:-)

You have to realize that the markup on a boat in this price range is not the
same as a car. A Chevy at 27k probably has $4000 markup over invoice. And
there is probably another $2,500 that the dealer gets below invoice.
On a boat - there may only be about $2000 markup to begin with over his cost
after shipping and prep work.
He may sell 100 boats in a year vs the car dealer who is selling 100 cars a
month. He has to make some profit or close the doors.
If you can get it for $26k then you are probably doing good. $25k was just
too low.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

-
wrote in message
oups.com...
Well I made a offer and the dealer wouldnt take it.. it's depressing.
The boat was listed for 27K and I offered 25K and they said no. so I
guess I will just wait and try to find a used one somewhere.. wish me
luck!

On Tue, 10 May 2005 19:48:32 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:27:50 -0400, "Harry.Krause"
wrote:

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2005 11:44:50 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
wrote:



I'm in the same situation and am thinking the same thing. Particularly since
the boat I have my eye on is in demand used and has a high resale value
(Grady White Sailfish). I am sure a used boat can be a great deal in some
cases but the joy of something brand new that you have babied from day 1 is
very appealing.


Nah.... what you need is an Express 360....


Haven't seen the 360, but I did get to climb around a 330 last year at
the local dealer's dock. It is a terrific boat, great lines, great
utility, super-looking hardware. The 36 has what, triple outboard? You'd
have to kiss a lot of Saudi princes to afford the gasoline bill.

Oddly enough, it still gets about 1 MPG with three Yamaha 250
4-strokes.... really, though, if I could pop $400K for a boat.... the
gas probably wouldn't be a problem....

You'd be one hell of a lot better off with E-Tecs.

Later,

Tom

On Tue, 10 May 2005 23:57:22 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2005 23:34:33 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:



You'd be one hell of a lot better off with E-Tecs.


Grady-White has crawled in bed with Yamaha and I'm not sure you'd be
able to get a Grady from an authorized dealer with anything but
Yamahas......

In this part of the country, Evinrudes are about as scarce as hen's
teeth....

Tell me about it - people look at my engines like they are freakin'
aliens or something. I had this battle with the Contender. I finally
broke it down for them - they want to sell a boat, I don't like thief
engine choice. So either sell me the boat with the full warranty and
I'll install the engines of my choice, or I won't buy the boat. They
chose wisely.

It's unfortunate that Yamaha is doing this - one of these days, the
parts issue is going to explode in their face and lots of Yamaha
owners are going to be screaming.

Later,

Tom

wrote in message
oups.com...
What's your ownership style?

If you are a frequent trader who will be looking for another boat
within a couple of years, you will indeed
take a good whack from depreciation when you trade up. Maybe 20-30%,
and could be more. That makes a new boat very expensive on an "avg cost
per month of ownership basis".

However, if you plan to hang onto the boat for many years depreciation
needn't be such a critical concern.
Starting with a new boat allows you to avoid wondering what dirty
little secrets the previous owner
glossed over or concealed, and you will know from day one exactly what
type of maintenance the boat receives. Once you iron out the few almost
inevitable
new boat warranty bugs, you can expect perhaps a few years or so of a
blissful time where almost everything is almost always working. That's
about as good as it gets in the real world for most boats.

Owning a boat makes no economic sense whatsoever, whether it is new or
used, unless you somehow use to to earn a living.

If this Bayliner 225 is really the boat of your dreams and there is
nothing similar available used, I'd personally advise against buying a
used boat that you don't like nearly as well simply because it is
already partially worn-out (and depreciated).

Then there's the SO factor. The "Significant Other". Very important.
When we bought our present boat in the early 90's, we made the choice
we did because it was among the top 3 prospects on my list (1st, 2nd,
and 3rd place seemed to vary depending on daily mood and it was a close
contest), but it was clearly NUMERO UNO with the wife. Happy wife
makes a happy boat. After all these years I'm still very pleased with
our boat and have saved more than we paid for it by not repurchasing
another boat every 2-3 years like so many people seem to do. Turns out
my wife was pretty smart about picking boats- (too bad about her luck
with husbands!)

It may make less economic sense to buy new than used, but in a
transaction where "economic sense" is never a factor under any
circumstance, who cares?


Sound advice. I however would never buy new. Let the buyer of the new boat
work out the kinks for the first couple of years and take the depreciation
hit.

But why not consider a boat 5-15 years old? A much better value overall.
The money saved can be used to upgrade the cabin amenities, canvas and
electronics.....and possibly add on reverse cycle A/C and a generator if it
did not come with that..

Regardless of what you purchase get the boat surveyed (structural and
mechanical) by a reputable surveyor of your choosing. If older than 3 or so
years hire a mechanic to do a compression check on the engine(s) cylinders.

Also pay careful attention to maintenance records if you buy used.

Good luck and let us know what you purchased.

I am not looking old because I already have a perfectly good 1997 ski
boat. It runs great, looks pretty good, although after 8 years it's got
a few cosmetic issues. This new boat, the 225 has a totally different
seating arrangement then I have seen in any other boat and it would
suit my usage needs perfectly.

I put a offer in, they said no. Then I found a used 2004 but the guy
wants his loan payoff amount which is 28K. The local dealer has several
2004's left that they are "sales" price selling at 27K with a 1K cash
back reward from bayliner. The 2005 model "sales" price is 28K.

So right now I am basiccly hopeing my signifigant other let's me buy
the 2004.. it's freaking perfect.. but it's that one or nothing. Worst
case scenario is I use my boat for another season... not a big issue
really


JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
What's your ownership style?

If you are a frequent trader who will be looking for another boat
within a couple of years, you will indeed
take a good whack from depreciation when you trade up. Maybe
20-30%,
and could be more. That makes a new boat very expensive on an "avg
cost
per month of ownership basis".

However, if you plan to hang onto the boat for many years
depreciation
needn't be such a critical concern.
Starting with a new boat allows you to avoid wondering what dirty
little secrets the previous owner
glossed over or concealed, and you will know from day one exactly
what
type of maintenance the boat receives. Once you iron out the few
almost
inevitable
new boat warranty bugs, you can expect perhaps a few years or so of
a
blissful time where almost everything is almost always working.
That's
about as good as it gets in the real world for most boats.

Owning a boat makes no economic sense whatsoever, whether it is new
or
used, unless you somehow use to to earn a living.

If this Bayliner 225 is really the boat of your dreams and there is
nothing similar available used, I'd personally advise against
buying a
used boat that you don't like nearly as well simply because it is
already partially worn-out (and depreciated).

Then there's the SO factor. The "Significant Other". Very
important.
When we bought our present boat in the early 90's, we made the
choice
we did because it was among the top 3 prospects on my list (1st,
2nd,
and 3rd place seemed to vary depending on daily mood and it was a
close
contest), but it was clearly NUMERO UNO with the wife. Happy wife
makes a happy boat. After all these years I'm still very pleased
with
our boat and have saved more than we paid for it by not
repurchasing
another boat every 2-3 years like so many people seem to do. Turns
out
my wife was pretty smart about picking boats- (too bad about her
luck
with husbands!)

It may make less economic sense to buy new than used, but in a
transaction where "economic sense" is never a factor under any
circumstance, who cares?


Sound advice. I however would never buy new. Let the buyer of the
new boat
work out the kinks for the first couple of years and take the
depreciation
hit.

But why not consider a boat 5-15 years old? A much better value
overall.
The money saved can be used to upgrade the cabin amenities, canvas
and
electronics.....and possibly add on reverse cycle A/C and a generator
if it
did not come with that..

Regardless of what you purchase get the boat surveyed (structural and

mechanical) by a reputable surveyor of your choosing. If older than
3 or so
years hire a mechanic to do a compression check on the engine(s)
cylinders.

Also pay careful attention to maintenance records if you buy used.

Good luck and let us know what you purchased.

On 9 May 2005 14:15:34 -0700, wrote:

Ok so I have a 1997 maxum 20foot ski boat and I am looking to upgrade.
I have moorage on lake washington ( near seattle ) and so most of my
time is spent on the lake.

I live on the water, and own 27 different boats around the world,
including a 40' Zimmerman Lobster boat.

Darn, I thought you owned a 36' Lobster boat, nice upgrade.


"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
On 9 May 2005 14:15:34 -0700, wrote:

Ok so I have a 1997 maxum 20foot ski boat and I am looking to upgrade.
I have moorage on lake washington ( near seattle ) and so most of my
time is spent on the lake.

I live on the water, and own 27 different boats around the world,
including a 40' Zimmerman Lobster boat.