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Help! New boat problems and my recourse
18' CC
I bought a new boat last year. I have not even had it a year. A couple months into ownership, small cracks began to form where the deck meets the sides. There were some other cracks throughout the hull, mostly on curved egdes. Not really bad but cracks nonetheless on a new boat. I took the boat back to the dealership (different from the manufacture) and they spoke with the manufacture. The boat manufacture said these were from the glass being too thick. They said to grind it down and smooth it out. The dealership decided to fix it by grinding down the cracks and reglassing. After grinding it down a bit, the dealer found voids in the glass and they think this is the problem. Are the other cracks voids? Will more cracks form? Anyway, they have had my boat for 3 weeks now (eating up my season for Dolphin and Cobia) and when I went to pick it up today, I was PO'd. There were still a few small cracks, the glass job on the seams was not finished correctly (a lip around the edge from tape, I assume, glass that was rough and not buffed; also glass that needed sanding); the boat obviously was only washed but not buffed, etc. I ran my hand on parts of the boat and picked glass dust. The glass was not smooth and shiny in the work areas but coarse and rough - like it was sanded and left that way. I told the shop manager that I used to work for an autobody shop. When we completed a vehicle, it was detailed. Any issues could be easily found at this point and fixed. He was expecting me to accept this poor workmanship by saying he has a new detail crew. I also complained about a guage that retained moisture for a day or two after getting wet - the only one out of 7 guages. They said that's just the way it is, nothing they can do. And to boot, I was told by another dealership location (same company) that they were not going to carry my boat anymore. My salesman said he was full of it. Guess what? The shop manager tells me not only are they not going to carry my boat, but my motor won't be carried either. At this point, what can I do? I would like to work this out so I can go fishing. Should I contact an attorney? Would I be out of line to ask for some compensation for my "pain and suffering" - only a fisherman will understand LOL. I mean, it looks like I will be without my boat for at least a month of excellent fishing. I bought a new boat and I feel like I have a used one. Thoughts? Opinions? |
On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote:
At this point, what can I do? If there are voids in the glass and you can prove that, sue the hell out of the manufacturer. That's a quality problem not to mention a potential safety problem. I would also take the dealer to small claims court for improper repair - go for the max your state allows. Half the time, once you set things in motion, they resolve themselves very quickly. Out of curiosity, what make/model boat was this? Later, Tom |
TC writes:
At this point, what can I do? I would like to work this out so I can go fishing. Should I contact an attorney? Yes, decide exactly what remedy you want, and have a lawyer send a nastygram to that effect. This dealer/mfr is an expert professional at evading responsibility, you are just a dabbler at enforcing it. If it's not worth hiring the lawyer, then you really don't have enough of a gripe to be worth pursuing. |
Richard J Kinch wrote:
TC writes: At this point, what can I do? I would like to work this out so I can go fishing. Should I contact an attorney? Yes, decide exactly what remedy you want, and have a lawyer send a nastygram to that effect. This dealer/mfr is an expert professional at evading responsibility, you are just a dabbler at enforcing it. If it's not worth hiring the lawyer, then you really don't have enough of a gripe to be worth pursuing. I hate lawyers, but I hate getting the shaft even more. I think I will give one a call and see what happens. |
Red Cloud. wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC I bought a new boat last year. I have not even had it a year. A couple months into ownership, small cracks began to form where the deck meets the sides. There were some other cracks throughout the hull, mostly on curved egdes. Not really bad but cracks nonetheless on a new boat. I took the boat back to the dealership (different from the manufacture) and they spoke with the manufacture. The boat manufacture said these were from the glass being too thick. They said to grind it down and smooth it out. The dealership decided to fix it by grinding down the cracks and reglassing. After grinding it down a bit, the dealer found voids in the glass and they think this is the problem. Are the other cracks voids? Will more cracks form? Anyway, they have had my boat for 3 weeks now (eating up my season for Dolphin and Cobia) and when I went to pick it up today, I was PO'd. There were still a few small cracks, the glass job on the seams was not finished correctly (a lip around the edge from tape, I assume, glass that was rough and not buffed; also glass that needed sanding); the boat obviously was only washed but not buffed, etc. I ran my hand on parts of the boat and picked glass dust. The glass was not smooth and shiny in the work areas but coarse and rough - like it was sanded and left that way. I told the shop manager that I used to work for an autobody shop. When we completed a vehicle, it was detailed. Any issues could be easily found at this point and fixed. He was expecting me to accept this poor workmanship by saying he has a new detail crew. I also complained about a guage that retained moisture for a day or two after getting wet - the only one out of 7 guages. They said that's just the way it is, nothing they can do. And to boot, I was told by another dealership location (same company) that they were not going to carry my boat anymore. My salesman said he was full of it. Guess what? The shop manager tells me not only are they not going to carry my boat, but my motor won't be carried either. At this point, what can I do? I would like to work this out so I can go fishing. Should I contact an attorney? Would I be out of line to ask for some compensation for my "pain and suffering" - only a fisherman will understand LOL. I mean, it looks like I will be without my boat for at least a month of excellent fishing. I bought a new boat and I feel like I have a used one. Thoughts? Opinions? Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? rusty redcloud These problems did not start showing up until about a month or so after I got the boat - presumably after I started using it and the impact or flexing of the boat brought them to the surface. |
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: At this point, what can I do? If there are voids in the glass and you can prove that, sue the hell out of the manufacturer. That's a quality problem not to mention a potential safety problem. I can't prove it. This is what the boat dealer told me. Of course they aren't willing to go to court on my behalf. Although, I wonder if I can get them to put it in writing. I would also take the dealer to small claims court for improper repair - go for the max your state allows. Half the time, once you set things in motion, they resolve themselves very quickly. That's what I had hoped for. Yesterday was 3 weeks without my boat and I'm looking at at least another week. Only have the work was done and not very well either. Out of curiosity, what make/model boat was this? 2004 Seahunt 186 CC |
TC -
Ask an independent surveyor to inspect your boat and write a survey along with his recommendations to repair the boat. Send this information via registered mail to the manufacturer and copy the dealer. Let them know if you do not hear from them by "X" date, you will file a claim in small claims court and file a complaint with Boat/US. "TC" wrote in message .. . Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: At this point, what can I do? If there are voids in the glass and you can prove that, sue the hell out of the manufacturer. That's a quality problem not to mention a potential safety problem. I can't prove it. This is what the boat dealer told me. Of course they aren't willing to go to court on my behalf. Although, I wonder if I can get them to put it in writing. I would also take the dealer to small claims court for improper repair - go for the max your state allows. Half the time, once you set things in motion, they resolve themselves very quickly. That's what I had hoped for. Yesterday was 3 weeks without my boat and I'm looking at at least another week. Only have the work was done and not very well either. Out of curiosity, what make/model boat was this? 2004 Seahunt 186 CC |
|
Red Cloud) wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:11:09 GMT, "TC" wrote: Red Cloud. wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC I bought a new boat last year. I have not even had it a year. A couple months into ownership, small cracks began to form where the deck meets the sides. There were some other cracks throughout the hull, mostly on curved egdes. Not really bad but cracks nonetheless on a new boat. I took the boat back to the dealership (different from the manufacture) and they spoke with the manufacture. The boat manufacture said these were from the glass being too thick. They said to grind it down and smooth it out. The dealership decided to fix it by grinding down the cracks and reglassing. After grinding it down a bit, the dealer found voids in the glass and they think this is the problem. Are the other cracks voids? Will more cracks form? Anyway, they have had my boat for 3 weeks now (eating up my season for Dolphin and Cobia) and when I went to pick it up today, I was PO'd. There were still a few small cracks, the glass job on the seams was not finished correctly (a lip around the edge from tape, I assume, glass that was rough and not buffed; also glass that needed sanding); the boat obviously was only washed but not buffed, etc. I ran my hand on parts of the boat and picked glass dust. The glass was not smooth and shiny in the work areas but coarse and rough - like it was sanded and left that way. I told the shop manager that I used to work for an autobody shop. When we completed a vehicle, it was detailed. Any issues could be easily found at this point and fixed. He was expecting me to accept this poor workmanship by saying he has a new detail crew. I also complained about a guage that retained moisture for a day or two after getting wet - the only one out of 7 guages. They said that's just the way it is, nothing they can do. And to boot, I was told by another dealership location (same company) that they were not going to carry my boat anymore. My salesman said he was full of it. Guess what? The shop manager tells me not only are they not going to carry my boat, but my motor won't be carried either. At this point, what can I do? I would like to work this out so I can go fishing. Should I contact an attorney? Would I be out of line to ask for some compensation for my "pain and suffering" - only a fisherman will understand LOL. I mean, it looks like I will be without my boat for at least a month of excellent fishing. I bought a new boat and I feel like I have a used one. Thoughts? Opinions? Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? rusty redcloud These problems did not start showing up until about a month or so after I got the boat - presumably after I started using it and the impact or flexing of the boat brought them to the surface. Did you have the boat professionally surveyed before accepting delivery? rusty redcloud No. It's a brand new boat. I'm new to new boats but not used boats. I never have new cars surveyed either. Should you have a new boat surveyed? |
"TC" wrote in message .. . Red Cloud) wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:11:09 GMT, "TC" wrote: Red Cloud. wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC I bought a new boat last year. I have not even had it a year. A couple months into ownership, small cracks began to form where the deck meets the sides. There were some other cracks throughout the hull, mostly on curved egdes. Not really bad but cracks nonetheless on a new boat. I took the boat back to the dealership (different from the manufacture) and they spoke with the manufacture. The boat manufacture said these were from the glass being too thick. They said to grind it down and smooth it out. The dealership decided to fix it by grinding down the cracks and reglassing. After grinding it down a bit, the dealer found voids in the glass and they think this is the problem. Are the other cracks voids? Will more cracks form? Anyway, they have had my boat for 3 weeks now (eating up my season for Dolphin and Cobia) and when I went to pick it up today, I was PO'd. There were still a few small cracks, the glass job on the seams was not finished correctly (a lip around the edge from tape, I assume, glass that was rough and not buffed; also glass that needed sanding); the boat obviously was only washed but not buffed, etc. I ran my hand on parts of the boat and picked glass dust. The glass was not smooth and shiny in the work areas but coarse and rough - like it was sanded and left that way. I told the shop manager that I used to work for an autobody shop. When we completed a vehicle, it was detailed. Any issues could be easily found at this point and fixed. He was expecting me to accept this poor workmanship by saying he has a new detail crew. I also complained about a guage that retained moisture for a day or two after getting wet - the only one out of 7 guages. They said that's just the way it is, nothing they can do. And to boot, I was told by another dealership location (same company) that they were not going to carry my boat anymore. My salesman said he was full of it. Guess what? The shop manager tells me not only are they not going to carry my boat, but my motor won't be carried either. At this point, what can I do? I would like to work this out so I can go fishing. Should I contact an attorney? Would I be out of line to ask for some compensation for my "pain and suffering" - only a fisherman will understand LOL. I mean, it looks like I will be without my boat for at least a month of excellent fishing. I bought a new boat and I feel like I have a used one. Thoughts? Opinions? Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? rusty redcloud These problems did not start showing up until about a month or so after I got the boat - presumably after I started using it and the impact or flexing of the boat brought them to the surface. Did you have the boat professionally surveyed before accepting delivery? rusty redcloud No. It's a brand new boat. I'm new to new boats but not used boats. I never have new cars surveyed either. Should you have a new boat surveyed? Yes, and this is a good example why. |
I would start by calling the Manufacturer and tell them you want your money
back as the boat has not been fixed and the dealer is making a mess of it. And since it is now summer and you won't have a boat for a while you would like to get your money back and go get a real boat. Just a phone call. Might save you the lawyer fee, inspection fee, etc.. Manufacturers do buy boats back that are flawed. By the way - what dealer does fiberglass repair. This is an art and takes a specialized fiberglass shop to do it right. -- Tony my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com "TC" wrote in message .. . Red Cloud) wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:11:09 GMT, "TC" wrote: Red Cloud. wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC I bought a new boat last year. I have not even had it a year. A couple months into ownership, small cracks began to form where the deck meets the sides. There were some other cracks throughout the hull, mostly on curved egdes. Not really bad but cracks nonetheless on a new boat. I took the boat back to the dealership (different from the manufacture) and they spoke with the manufacture. The boat manufacture said these were from the glass being too thick. They said to grind it down and smooth it out. The dealership decided to fix it by grinding down the cracks and reglassing. After grinding it down a bit, the dealer found voids in the glass and they think this is the problem. Are the other cracks voids? Will more cracks form? Anyway, they have had my boat for 3 weeks now (eating up my season for Dolphin and Cobia) and when I went to pick it up today, I was PO'd. There were still a few small cracks, the glass job on the seams was not finished correctly (a lip around the edge from tape, I assume, glass that was rough and not buffed; also glass that needed sanding); the boat obviously was only washed but not buffed, etc. I ran my hand on parts of the boat and picked glass dust. The glass was not smooth and shiny in the work areas but coarse and rough - like it was sanded and left that way. I told the shop manager that I used to work for an autobody shop. When we completed a vehicle, it was detailed. Any issues could be easily found at this point and fixed. He was expecting me to accept this poor workmanship by saying he has a new detail crew. I also complained about a guage that retained moisture for a day or two after getting wet - the only one out of 7 guages. They said that's just the way it is, nothing they can do. And to boot, I was told by another dealership location (same company) that they were not going to carry my boat anymore. My salesman said he was full of it. Guess what? The shop manager tells me not only are they not going to carry my boat, but my motor won't be carried either. At this point, what can I do? I would like to work this out so I can go fishing. Should I contact an attorney? Would I be out of line to ask for some compensation for my "pain and suffering" - only a fisherman will understand LOL. I mean, it looks like I will be without my boat for at least a month of excellent fishing. I bought a new boat and I feel like I have a used one. Thoughts? Opinions? Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? rusty redcloud These problems did not start showing up until about a month or so after I got the boat - presumably after I started using it and the impact or flexing of the boat brought them to the surface. Did you have the boat professionally surveyed before accepting delivery? rusty redcloud No. It's a brand new boat. I'm new to new boats but not used boats. I never have new cars surveyed either. Should you have a new boat surveyed? |
Depends on the boat but in general no. That is what you have a warrenty
for. -- Tony my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com "Peter Aitken" wrote in message m... "Red Cloud®" wrote in message ... On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC snipped Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? I have never heard of using a surveyor for a new boat. Is this common practice? -- Peter Aitken Remove the crap from my email address before using. |
"Peter Aitken" wrote in message m... "Red Cloud®" wrote in message ... On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC snipped Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? I have never heard of using a surveyor for a new boat. Is this common practice? -- Peter Aitken Remove the crap from my email address before using. Common, no. Recommended, yes. Even though the boat is new does not mean it will not have structural or mechanical problems. |
"tony thomas" wrote in message news:taLee.60123$c24.16418@attbi_s72... Depends on the boat but in general no. That is what you have a warrenty for. -- Tony A surveyor will identify the problems prior to you signing the contract, thus eliminating having to hasstle with the warranty fine print. Many dealers could care less about customer service once you sign the contract. |
JimH wrote:
"TC" wrote in message .. . Red Cloud) wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:11:09 GMT, "TC" wrote: Red Cloud. wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC I bought a new boat last year. I have not even had it a year. A couple months into ownership, small cracks began to form where the deck meets the sides. There were some other cracks throughout the hull, mostly on curved egdes. Not really bad but cracks nonetheless on a new boat. I took the boat back to the dealership (different from the manufacture) and they spoke with the manufacture. The boat manufacture said these were from the glass being too thick. They said to grind it down and smooth it out. The dealership decided to fix it by grinding down the cracks and reglassing. After grinding it down a bit, the dealer found voids in the glass and they think this is the problem. Are the other cracks voids? Will more cracks form? Anyway, they have had my boat for 3 weeks now (eating up my season for Dolphin and Cobia) and when I went to pick it up today, I was PO'd. There were still a few small cracks, the glass job on the seams was not finished correctly (a lip around the edge from tape, I assume, glass that was rough and not buffed; also glass that needed sanding); the boat obviously was only washed but not buffed, etc. I ran my hand on parts of the boat and picked glass dust. The glass was not smooth and shiny in the work areas but coarse and rough - like it was sanded and left that way. I told the shop manager that I used to work for an autobody shop. When we completed a vehicle, it was detailed. Any issues could be easily found at this point and fixed. He was expecting me to accept this poor workmanship by saying he has a new detail crew. I also complained about a guage that retained moisture for a day or two after getting wet - the only one out of 7 guages. They said that's just the way it is, nothing they can do. And to boot, I was told by another dealership location (same company) that they were not going to carry my boat anymore. My salesman said he was full of it. Guess what? The shop manager tells me not only are they not going to carry my boat, but my motor won't be carried either. At this point, what can I do? I would like to work this out so I can go fishing. Should I contact an attorney? Would I be out of line to ask for some compensation for my "pain and suffering" - only a fisherman will understand LOL. I mean, it looks like I will be without my boat for at least a month of excellent fishing. I bought a new boat and I feel like I have a used one. Thoughts? Opinions? Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? rusty redcloud These problems did not start showing up until about a month or so after I got the boat - presumably after I started using it and the impact or flexing of the boat brought them to the surface. Did you have the boat professionally surveyed before accepting delivery? rusty redcloud No. It's a brand new boat. I'm new to new boats but not used boats. I never have new cars surveyed either. Should you have a new boat surveyed? Yes, and this is a good example why. Would this person have been able to determine if the boat had voids? |
tony thomas wrote:
I would start by calling the Manufacturer and tell them you want your money back as the boat has not been fixed and the dealer is making a mess of it. And since it is now summer and you won't have a boat for a while you would like to get your money back and go get a real boat. Just a phone call. Might save you the lawyer fee, inspection fee, etc.. Manufacturers do buy boats back that are flawed. By the way - what dealer does fiberglass repair. This is an art and takes a specialized fiberglass shop to do it right. Actually, the dealer wanted the manufacture to replace the hull and they refused. I don't think I'd get anywhere calling the manufacture. |
"Red Cloud©" wrote in message
... On Fri, 06 May 2005 13:53:09 GMT, "Peter Aitken" wrote: "Red Cloud®" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC snipped Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? I have never heard of using a surveyor for a new boat. Is this common practice? It is not nearly as common as it should be. It is, however, highly recommended, and this poster's problems demonstartes exactly why it is so valuable. He has now spent a large amount of money on a boat that cannot be used, and will never be "right". He's going to go through months, or years of aggravation, and further expense for lawyers and nonsense before there is any chance of resolution. Meanwhile his money is tied up, he has no boat, and he has added a long stretch of stress misery and anguish to replace his boating adventures. Brand new boats always have minor flaws, which should be addressed before acceptance. Some boats, such as this one have huge problems, and should not be accepted for final purchase at all. A surveyor will discover things long before they become apparent to the consumer. This boat does not sound as if it would have made it through a competent, professional survey. A survey costs relatively little, and can save you a nightmare and large amounts of time and money. rusty redcloud Interesting, particularly since we are in the process of shopping for a new boat. It seems that most serious problems - such as the ones in the original post - would not be found by a surveyor, or is that not the case? Maybe its the approach of better to find some problems even if you cannot find all of them? -- Peter Aitken |
"TC" wrote in message .. . No. It's a brand new boat. I'm new to new boats but not used boats. I never have new cars surveyed either. Should you have a new boat surveyed? There are lemon laws for cars. And, when there are recalls, it makes the news, so they do (or at least pretend to do) as much as they can to fix problems. With boats, things are a bit murkier. |
"TC" wrote in message .. . JimH wrote: "TC" wrote in message .. . Red Cloud) wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:11:09 GMT, "TC" wrote: Red Cloud. wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC I bought a new boat last year. I have not even had it a year. A couple months into ownership, small cracks began to form where the deck meets the sides. There were some other cracks throughout the hull, mostly on curved egdes. Not really bad but cracks nonetheless on a new boat. I took the boat back to the dealership (different from the manufacture) and they spoke with the manufacture. The boat manufacture said these were from the glass being too thick. They said to grind it down and smooth it out. The dealership decided to fix it by grinding down the cracks and reglassing. After grinding it down a bit, the dealer found voids in the glass and they think this is the problem. Are the other cracks voids? Will more cracks form? Anyway, they have had my boat for 3 weeks now (eating up my season for Dolphin and Cobia) and when I went to pick it up today, I was PO'd. There were still a few small cracks, the glass job on the seams was not finished correctly (a lip around the edge from tape, I assume, glass that was rough and not buffed; also glass that needed sanding); the boat obviously was only washed but not buffed, etc. I ran my hand on parts of the boat and picked glass dust. The glass was not smooth and shiny in the work areas but coarse and rough - like it was sanded and left that way. I told the shop manager that I used to work for an autobody shop. When we completed a vehicle, it was detailed. Any issues could be easily found at this point and fixed. He was expecting me to accept this poor workmanship by saying he has a new detail crew. I also complained about a guage that retained moisture for a day or two after getting wet - the only one out of 7 guages. They said that's just the way it is, nothing they can do. And to boot, I was told by another dealership location (same company) that they were not going to carry my boat anymore. My salesman said he was full of it. Guess what? The shop manager tells me not only are they not going to carry my boat, but my motor won't be carried either. At this point, what can I do? I would like to work this out so I can go fishing. Should I contact an attorney? Would I be out of line to ask for some compensation for my "pain and suffering" - only a fisherman will understand LOL. I mean, it looks like I will be without my boat for at least a month of excellent fishing. I bought a new boat and I feel like I have a used one. Thoughts? Opinions? Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? rusty redcloud These problems did not start showing up until about a month or so after I got the boat - presumably after I started using it and the impact or flexing of the boat brought them to the surface. Did you have the boat professionally surveyed before accepting delivery? rusty redcloud No. It's a brand new boat. I'm new to new boats but not used boats. I never have new cars surveyed either. Should you have a new boat surveyed? Yes, and this is a good example why. Would this person have been able to determine if the boat had voids? That is a question that cannot be answered accurately. So the answer is....possibly. I would err on the side of caution and have hired a surveyor prior to the purchase. But hindsight is always 20:20. ;-) |
"JimH" wrote in message ... "Peter Aitken" wrote in message m... "Red Cloud®" wrote in message ... On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC snipped Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? I have never heard of using a surveyor for a new boat. Is this common practice? -- Peter Aitken Remove the crap from my email address before using. Common, no. Recommended, yes. Even though the boat is new does not mean it will not have structural or mechanical problems. I'm just sort of lurking here, but what does a survey cost for a boat like the OP's got? |
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
... snipped I'm just sort of lurking here, but what does a survey cost for a boat like the OP's got? And how do you go about finding an independent surveyor? -- Peter Aitken |
On Fri, 06 May 2005 14:18:08 GMT, "tony thomas"
wrote: By the way - what dealer does fiberglass repair. http://www.ctboatworks.com/ctboatwor....html#complete |
"Peter Aitken" wrote in message m... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... snipped I'm just sort of lurking here, but what does a survey cost for a boat like the OP's got? And how do you go about finding an independent surveyor? -- Peter Aitken A structural and general mechanical survey (excluding compression test of engine[s]) varies according to the size of the boat. But consider $12 to $14/foot as a rule of thumb. Mileage and travel costs may also be included. We paid $250 in 1995 for a 27 footer and $400 in 1998 for a 32 footer. A good place to start on finding a reputable surveyor is from other boaters in your area. I would not use the surveyor recommended by the seller or boat retailers. Post the area you are in and if there are folks here from that general area they can recommend someone. |
Red Cloud© wrote:
On Fri, 06 May 2005 15:18:59 GMT, "Peter Aitken" wrote: "Red Cloud©" wrote in message ... On Fri, 06 May 2005 13:53:09 GMT, "Peter Aitken" wrote: "Red Cloud®" wrote in message ... On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:01 GMT, "TC" wrote: 18' CC snipped Why didn't your independant surveyor catch these problems before you took delivery? I have never heard of using a surveyor for a new boat. Is this common practice? It is not nearly as common as it should be. It is, however, highly recommended, and this poster's problems demonstartes exactly why it is so valuable. He has now spent a large amount of money on a boat that cannot be used, and will never be "right". He's going to go through months, or years of aggravation, and further expense for lawyers and nonsense before there is any chance of resolution. Meanwhile his money is tied up, he has no boat, and he has added a long stretch of stress misery and anguish to replace his boating adventures. Brand new boats always have minor flaws, which should be addressed before acceptance. Some boats, such as this one have huge problems, and should not be accepted for final purchase at all. A surveyor will discover things long before they become apparent to the consumer. This boat does not sound as if it would have made it through a competent, professional survey. A survey costs relatively little, and can save you a nightmare and large amounts of time and money. rusty redcloud Interesting, particularly since we are in the process of shopping for a new boat. It seems that most serious problems - such as the ones in the original post - would not be found by a surveyor, or is that not the case? Maybe its the approach of better to find some problems even if you cannot find all of them? A good, professional surveyor would have sounded the hull and found the voids. Meanwhile, even minor problems are much less hassle to get Hmmm. I wonder. In the old days, we checked for excessive body repair by using a magnet. This WAS NOT done on every inch of the vehicle. I don't know how big the voids were so I'm not sure if they could have been picked up without being right on top of them. Do you really want to leave your new boat with the dealer for several weeks during season to have minor problems addressed? If they haven't been paid yet, and you are refusing to take delivery, that stuff can all be fixed so fast it will make your head spin. They will have to do it right, too, because the surveyor is coming back to verify the repairs, right? I think I will have a surveyor come with me now though before I pick up the boat. If I ever get to get it back. |
"TC" wrote in message news:AVLee.2792 Actually, the dealer wanted the manufacture to replace the hull and they refused. I don't think I'd get anywhere calling the manufacture. TC are you really looking for advice, or just want to complain about a piece of **** boat? |
"JimH" wrote in message ... Common, no. Recommended, yes. Even though the boat is new does not mean it will not have structural or mechanical problems. So true. A very good friend of mine on Lake Cumberland, got a brand new Parker a couple years ago. The gelcoat was delaming, and splitting away within one week of delivery, and the company wasn't responsive to his complaints. It was an obvious workmanship issue, and he ended up threatening legal action against them, before they would even return his calls. My friend finally prevailed, but only after months of crap from the factory. He got a full refund, and vowed never to buy a Parker again. Now I don't know if a surveyor would have picked this up, and I don't know if this is par for a Parker, but when you are dealing with a company that's conducts themselves in that manner, it sure wouldn't have hurt. -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/ |
"JimH" wrote in message ... "Peter Aitken" wrote in message m... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... snipped I'm just sort of lurking here, but what does a survey cost for a boat like the OP's got? And how do you go about finding an independent surveyor? -- Peter Aitken A structural and general mechanical survey (excluding compression test of engine[s]) varies according to the size of the boat. But consider $12 to $14/foot as a rule of thumb. Mileage and travel costs may also be included. We paid $250 in 1995 for a 27 footer and $400 in 1998 for a 32 footer. A good place to start on finding a reputable surveyor is from other boaters in your area. I would not use the surveyor recommended by the seller or boat retailers. Post the area you are in and if there are folks here from that general area they can recommend someone. And how would this surveyor tell that it was going to crack, and that there were voids under the areas that hadn't cracked yet? You don't get x-rays for 250 bucks. del |
"Del Cecchi" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Peter Aitken" wrote in message m... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... snipped I'm just sort of lurking here, but what does a survey cost for a boat like the OP's got? And how do you go about finding an independent surveyor? -- Peter Aitken A structural and general mechanical survey (excluding compression test of engine[s]) varies according to the size of the boat. But consider $12 to $14/foot as a rule of thumb. Mileage and travel costs may also be included. We paid $250 in 1995 for a 27 footer and $400 in 1998 for a 32 footer. A good place to start on finding a reputable surveyor is from other boaters in your area. I would not use the surveyor recommended by the seller or boat retailers. Post the area you are in and if there are folks here from that general area they can recommend someone. And how would this surveyor tell that it was going to crack, and that there were voids under the areas that hadn't cracked yet? You don't get x-rays for 250 bucks. del No one is saying that the problem would have definitely been caught during a structural survey Del. But on the other hand, perhaps he/she would have found it by seeing tell tale signs of spider cracking of the gelcoat that the buyer did not see. |
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 06 May 2005 14:18:08 GMT, "tony thomas" wrote: By the way - what dealer does fiberglass repair. http://www.ctboatworks.com/ctboatwor....html#complete I thought that was kind of an overly general question, too. :) |
"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
... And how would this surveyor tell that it was going to crack, and that there were voids under the areas that hadn't cracked yet? You don't get x-rays for 250 bucks. Smart people hire inspectors before they finalize a house purchase, and often, the inspectors see stuff the buyer does not, because the customer's all happy in la la land about the purchase. Same with boats. |
"TC" wrote in message .. . No. It's a brand new boat. I'm new to new boats but not used boats. I never have new cars surveyed either. Should you have a new boat surveyed? I would not expect to have to. :( That said a survey and a lawyer right about now outta get you a new hull. -W |
TC wrote:
18' CC I bought a new boat last year. I have not even had it a year. A couple months into ownership, small cracks began to form where the deck meets the sides. There were some other cracks throughout the hull, mostly on curved egdes. Not really bad but cracks nonetheless on a new boat. I took the boat back to the dealership (different from the manufacture) and they spoke with the manufacture. The boat manufacture said these were from the glass being too thick. They said to grind it down and smooth it out. The dealership decided to fix it by grinding down the cracks and reglassing. After grinding it down a bit, the dealer found voids in the glass and they think this is the problem. Are the other cracks voids? Will more cracks form? Anyway, they have had my boat for 3 weeks now (eating up my season for Dolphin and Cobia) and when I went to pick it up today, I was PO'd. There were still a few small cracks, the glass job on the seams was not finished correctly (a lip around the edge from tape, I assume, glass that was rough and not buffed; also glass that needed sanding); the boat obviously was only washed but not buffed, etc. I ran my hand on parts of the boat and picked glass dust. The glass was not smooth and shiny in the work areas but coarse and rough - like it was sanded and left that way. I told the shop manager that I used to work for an autobody shop. When we completed a vehicle, it was detailed. Any issues could be easily found at this point and fixed. He was expecting me to accept this poor workmanship by saying he has a new detail crew. I also complained about a guage that retained moisture for a day or two after getting wet - the only one out of 7 guages. They said that's just the way it is, nothing they can do. And to boot, I was told by another dealership location (same company) that they were not going to carry my boat anymore. My salesman said he was full of it. Guess what? The shop manager tells me not only are they not going to carry my boat, but my motor won't be carried either. At this point, what can I do? I would like to work this out so I can go fishing. Should I contact an attorney? Would I be out of line to ask for some compensation for my "pain and suffering" - only a fisherman will understand LOL. I mean, it looks like I will be without my boat for at least a month of excellent fishing. I bought a new boat and I feel like I have a used one. Thoughts? Opinions? Update: The boat dealer called and tells me he has good news: "The boat manufacture is going to come get the boat, take it back to North Carolina and fix it." How is that good news? Who knows how long it will be gone now. I contacted a surveyor and was told the boat issues are not acceptable but could be repaired. However, voids could be hard to find. I contacted an attorney (a friend of mine) who is going to send a letter to either the dealership or manufacture. I'm going to draft a letter for him to send. He says if we sue, that I probably won't come out very well as the bigger company can drag it through the legal system until it has cost me far more than the cost of the boat. Sigh. |
On Fri, 06 May 2005 19:00:24 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 06 May 2005 14:18:08 GMT, "tony thomas" wrote: By the way - what dealer does fiberglass repair. http://www.ctboatworks.com/ctboatwor....html#complete I thought that was kind of an overly general question, too. :) The two guys in this shop are unbelievable. Currently, they are doing a Donzi total restoration - it's amazing what they started with. I saw them fix a bass boat that had the bow smashed in a traffic accident. Complete rebuild - never even know the damn boat had been repaired. Really good. Later, Tom |
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"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 06 May 2005 19:00:24 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 06 May 2005 14:18:08 GMT, "tony thomas" wrote: By the way - what dealer does fiberglass repair. http://www.ctboatworks.com/ctboatwor....html#complete I thought that was kind of an overly general question, too. :) The two guys in this shop are unbelievable. Currently, they are doing a Donzi total restoration - it's amazing what they started with. I saw them fix a bass boat that had the bow smashed in a traffic accident. Complete rebuild - never even know the damn boat had been repaired. Really good. Later, Tom What's even cooler, I think, is that as far as I know (which isn't that far), there's no school for this stuff. You have to apprentice with someone, and that can be like being married - putting up with one person's moods and criticism until you get it right, whatever "it" is. Fiberglass is probably easier than women, though. |
FACT: You'd have to ultrasound the entire hull to find the all the *not yet*
visable voids. Period. Have your lawaer demand of them all the ultrasound scans that they used to find and detect the voids they claim to be wanting to fix for you. ie Make it more expensive to have *them* do what they want, then to just give you a new hull. Just like they can make sueing expensive, you can play chess too. Play it......... and you best use the powers of the Dark Side..... remeber it's Corporate America you are up against. The almighty dollar wins every time..... -W "TC" wrote in message ... Update: The boat dealer called and tells me he has good news: "The boat manufacture is going to come get the boat, take it back to North Carolina and fix it." How is that good news? Who knows how long it will be gone now. I contacted a surveyor and was told the boat issues are not acceptable but could be repaired. However, voids could be hard to find. I contacted an attorney (a friend of mine) who is going to send a letter to either the dealership or manufacture. I'm going to draft a letter for him to send. He says if we sue, that I probably won't come out very well as the bigger company can drag it through the legal system until it has cost me far more than the cost of the boat. Sigh. |
It's OK - you two can squabble away.
I already told him all he needs to know to fight paper with paper. -W "Red Cloud®" wrote in message ... On Sun, 08 May 2005 07:56:04 -0400, John H wrote: On Sun, 08 May 2005 00:47:02 GMT, Red Cloud® wrote: On Sat, 07 May 2005 08:44:10 -0400, John H wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 23:05:06 GMT, Red Cloud® wrote: I still don't think you are "getting it". A surveyor would have found enough of the defects in the hull to make the case for replacing the hull. 'Would have', 'should have'. You don't know that a surveyor would have found all the defects! He was a new boat buyer. He wasn't as 'experienced' as you are. He didn't know it all. When I bought my first boat I didn't know it all either. I didn't get a survey done. Now, jump on my back for a while. Holy ****, give the guy a break. The "guy" has presented himself as someone who is impatient and always looking to find the cheap way out of every situation. The best break he can get is someone telling him he is doing it all wrong. No one would have found ALL of the defects, but a surveyor would have found enough of them to avoid this whole mess. Meanwhile, he is now saying that the manufacturer is taking the boat to "repair" it. They will not find and fix all the bad spots either, The point is that NO ONE can find ALL the bad spots in this hull because it is a total cluster****. They can not make this hull right. The guy doen't need a break from me. He needs to get focused and take care of this ****ed up situation. I'm doing my best to point that out to him. Ho w are you helping him? rusty redcloud Do you think that berating him for not having had a survey when he bought a new boat is *helping* him? It will help others avoid the same mistake. Meanwhile he didn't get berated until he persisted in doing things that will make his problem worse rather than better. He needs to be shaken awake. Meanwhile, I ask again: How are YOU helping him? ...I thought so! rusty redcloud |
On Sun, 08 May 2005 13:18:10 GMT, "Clams Canino" wrote:
It's OK - you two can squabble away. I already told him all he needs to know to fight paper with paper. -W And did so in a nice manner without an attempt to make the individual look foolish. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"Red Cloud®" wrote in message ... On Sun, 08 May 2005 07:56:04 -0400, John H wrote: On Sun, 08 May 2005 00:47:02 GMT, Red Cloud® wrote: On Sat, 07 May 2005 08:44:10 -0400, John H wrote: On Fri, 06 May 2005 23:05:06 GMT, Red Cloud® wrote: I still don't think you are "getting it". A surveyor would have found enough of the defects in the hull to make the case for replacing the hull. 'Would have', 'should have'. You don't know that a surveyor would have found all the defects! He was a new boat buyer. He wasn't as 'experienced' as you are. He didn't know it all. When I bought my first boat I didn't know it all either. I didn't get a survey done. Now, jump on my back for a while. Holy ****, give the guy a break. The "guy" has presented himself as someone who is impatient and always looking to find the cheap way out of every situation. The best break he can get is someone telling him he is doing it all wrong. No one would have found ALL of the defects, but a surveyor would have found enough of them to avoid this whole mess. Meanwhile, he is now saying that the manufacturer is taking the boat to "repair" it. They will not find and fix all the bad spots either, The point is that NO ONE can find ALL the bad spots in this hull because it is a total cluster****. They can not make this hull right. The guy doen't need a break from me. He needs to get focused and take care of this ****ed up situation. I'm doing my best to point that out to him. Ho w are you helping him? rusty redcloud Do you think that berating him for not having had a survey when he bought a new boat is *helping* him? It will help others avoid the same mistake. Meanwhile he didn't get berated until he persisted in doing things that will make his problem worse rather than better. He needs to be shaken awake. Meanwhile, I ask again: How are YOU helping him? ...I thought so! rusty redcloud I think that at this point, the OP needs someone like Tony Soprano. |
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